Trip Reports - Sir - we must search your bags - but your the cinema manager?

G'day,
On Monday my wife and I were walking through Aventura Mall, in FLL Florida when we decided to watch a movie. We were on a stopover in FLL and decided to drop into town for a while.

We purchased our tickets to Spiderman and entered the AMC24 cinema when the manager approached us and informed us that our bags must be searched before we could watch a movie. We were caught by surprise because this is not something we would have expected to encounter in a cinema. I was not very happy about this because our bags (normal carry on size) contained our personal items, this manager was very young.

It would seem that any tourist travelling to the United States needs to be prepared to have their belongings searched by people who are not Police or Airport Security personel. The people who may ask to search your belongings from a tourist point of view are complete strangers who have not undergone any background checks.

I insisted that if we were to have our bags searched then I would like a private place because our bags contained personal items. We were given the choice of a refund if we refused. I walked around the corner whereupon I opened our bags to show our clothing etc. The manager said thank you. I was surprised that this is possible. I felt that if I refused then the bomb squad would be called and I would be put in jail for being disorderly or something - so we complied.

Is this normal in the United States to be searched in public places for carrying a bag lately? Anyway, we cooperated with "authorities (Cinema Manager)" and watched our movie. But it did not feel good. Maybe this is not a politically correct topic to bring up since Sept 11th, but at what point is my privacy assured?

Sad to say...but this is the case post Sept. 11. Upon entering some museums, sporting events, music concerts, movie theatres, and other events where a mass of people can potentially be harmed, frisking and metal detection is the norm. I'm glad this is practiced for our safety, but it's a shame there's a few thousand $!@#* http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif$@! in the world who make it necessary.

Usually movie staff want to make sure you aren't bringing in food and drinks (since they want to sell you theirs).

Could it have been that?
Rich

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rjh:
Usually movie staff want to make sure you aren't bringing in food and drinks (since they want to sell you theirs).

Could it have been that?
Rich</font>

No way. They were looking for something else. Actually, my first thought was that they were looking to see if I had a video camera in my bag to make a pirate movie or something. I am pretty easy going guy but I think Americans have given up a lot of their freedom in the name of increased security. I withhold judgement on the merits of this as I understand the uniqueness of the situation. It is just a sorry state of affairs that terrorists have been successful in disrupting day to day life. I wish this madness would come to an end soon.

This is unexecptable. I would have taken the refund and taken my business down the street.

Its a movie!!!! (I can understand major sporting events, national treaures, etc., but a movie????) Also, I imagine that AMC is not training their teenager ticket takers in counter-terrorism tactics so they would know what to look for to begin with.

what a crazy world we live in!

welcome to the world of operation kneejerk, an entirely american phenomonem, and likely to do more damage to thier country and economy than the hijackers ever did.

Jon

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Ahh, the traditional America-bashing thread. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

You were not forced to be searched. You were offered a refund. It has always been the case that proprietors of businesses reserve the right to refuse service to whoever they want, except for a few very specific cases protected by law. Submitting to have your bags being searched by a theater manager is not a violation of anyone's rights. You could have said no and gotten your money back.

They were searching for food and drinks. That's what movie theaters do. They are incredibly paranoid about people bringing snacks in and not buying theirs. It's the only way they can sell their overpriced crap. You may also be correct in that they were worried that you had a video camera.

I just love how some stupid teenage theater manager's actions have led you all to yet again find reason to bash America. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif On the bright side it lets us know we're still on top, since people never feel the need to bash those who are equals or lesser. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Hopefully that teenage theater manager will one day become a school administrator and expell a second grader for bringing in a plastic gun the size of a quarter.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Ahh, the traditional America-bashing thread. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

You were not forced to be searched. You were offered a refund. It has always been the case that proprietors of businesses reserve the right to refuse service to whoever they want, except for a few very specific cases protected by law. Submitting to have your bags being searched by a theater manager is not a violation of anyone's rights. You could have said no and gotten your money back.

They were searching for food and drinks. That's what movie theaters do. They are incredibly paranoid about people bringing snacks in and not buying theirs. It's the only way they can sell their overpriced crap. You may also be correct in that they were worried that you had a video camera.

I just love how some stupid teenage theater manager's actions have led you all to yet again find reason to bash America. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif On the bright side it lets us know we're still on top, since people never feel the need to bash those who are equals or lesser. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif</font>

Am I meant to defend this? My apologies if I offended. It was not my intention. It was my intention to reiterate that searches are taking place outside of airport environments and a question as to when a persons privacy is to be assured.

Dave - Nagoya, Japan.

[This message has been edited by davistev (edited 07-18-2002).]

I find it interesting that in the "land of the free" you are forced to carry identification cards every time you drive, you can be held without bond until the police confirm your identity, you can be searched by anyone that wears a uniform and increasingly, you are taxed "Without representation"..

Most americans believe that the world respects them because of their constitution and the freedoms they have .. This is patently untrue.. As an immigrant to the USA and a regular visitor abroad, its VERY clear that the world respects america becuause of its prodigious economic power (Its MONEY).. I came to this country, not to live a "free" life (The UK has much more personal freedom than the USA, even WITH cameras everywhere), but because I can earn up to three times more than in the UK

OK.. so I then met my wife and had a child, that changes the picture today, but America, go look outside of your borders once in a while and try to understand what people REALLY think of your great country.. Most love it.. some don't.

Well.. who wants the soapbox now?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I find it interesting that in the "land of the free" you are forced to carry identification cards every time you drive,</font>

How else would you regulate an obviously dangerous activity that requires training?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"> you can be held without bond until the police confirm your identity,</font>

And what exactly is the problem with this?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">you can be searched by anyone that wears a uniform</font>

Umm, no, you can't. That's what the 4th amendment is for. You can, however, be searched if you implicitly agree to one, ie take a flight. Notice this guy was "intimidated" into the search by a teenaged movie manager. Not exactly the most threatening nor officially uniformed guy in the world.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"> and increasingly, you are taxed "Without representation"..</font>

Umm, no we aren't, as we have representation in all levels of government. It's our representatives who add such taxes. I disagree with 99% of taxes in the US, but I cannot claim I am not represented.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Brian-AAFlyer:
Most americans believe that the world respects them because of their constitution and the freedoms they have .. This is patently untrue.. As an immigrant to the USA and a regular visitor abroad, its VERY clear that the world respects america becuause of its prodigious economic power (Its MONEY).. I came to this country, not to live a "free" life (The UK has much more personal freedom than the USA, even WITH cameras everywhere), but because I can earn up to three times more than in the UK

OK.. so I then met my wife and had a child, that changes the picture today, but America, go look outside of your borders once in a while and try to understand what people REALLY think of your great country.. Most love it.. some don't.</font>

I'll respond to this part...

The world respects America because it's the richest and most powerful nation in the world, ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

One single carrier battlegroup w/ 2 carriers (USN has 12 total) is more firepower than any other nation's whole navy. In the Gulf War, the US Army demonstrated what world-class armor combat looks like. In the Afghanistan war, the US Air Force demonstrated what precision bombing really means. Militarily, the US has more firepower in its rapid-deployment troops than all of Europe put together. European nations are a paper tiger.

The US economy is the world's largest, and the US currency has been the world's benchmark currency for 50 years.

Frankly, I think most nations don't respect America for its constitution or laws. They respect America for the simple reason that America is the most powerful, if not the most admirable, country in the world.

And you must be joking if you think American's don't know that some people don't like us. 9-11 mean anything to you?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jongar:
welcome to the world of operation kneejerk, an entirely american phenomonem, and likely to do more damage to thier country and economy than the hijackers ever did.</font>

What does this have to do with hijackers? I might be going out on a limb here, but I'd be willing to bet if you had taken a carry-on bag into a movie theater before 9/11 there would be at least a 50/50 chance they'd want to look in it too. Admittedly there a greater chance of getting searched now for security reasons, but to make the assumption this incident was directly a result of 9/11 seems to be a good bit of a streatch to me.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by davistev:
Is this normal in the United States to be searched in public places for carrying a bag lately? </font>

Maybe Japan is different, but here in the US it is not typical for people to have carry-on bags in a movie theater. I personally do not recall ever seeing someone with a carry-on in a movie theater myself.

Being that it is rare at best to have a carry-on in a movie theater, I certainly would consider it unusual behavior, and here in the US unusual behavior in public places will usually raise security concerns.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
In the Gulf War, the US Army demonstrated what world-class armor combat looks like.</font>
By bombing US tanks with A-10 tankbusters?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
In the Afghanistan war, the US Air Force demonstrated what precision bombing really means. [/B]</font>
By bombing Red Cross warehouses storing grain to feed refuges and 'precision bombing' an innocent wedding party...?

You're right, the world respects the US because of it's vast financial clout in the global economy.

Also, as a British citizen, I can walk down the street or drive my car without having to carry any identification at all, not even a driving licence. Does that mean I have more personal freedom in Great Britain?

Personal note - Plato90s, I'm not flaming you sir, honest! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by 777Brit:
By bombing US tanks with A-10 tankbusters?


By bombing Red Cross warehouses storing grain to feed refuges and 'precision bombing' an innocent wedding party...?

You're right, the world respects the US because of it's vast financial clout in the global economy.

Also, as a British citizen, I can walk down the street or drive my car without having to carry any identification at all, not even a driving licence. Does that mean I have more personal freedom in Great Britain?

Personal note - Plato90s, I'm not flaming you sir, honest! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif</font>

Mistakes happen. Being the strongest doesn't mean being perfect.

BTW, I think I know the incident with the A-10 that you're referring to. It was a convoy of British APC's, not US tanks. And it was a case of mistaken identity where the aircraft thought that was an Iraqi column. Judged an accident.

As for the Afghan bombing, I'm not convinced that the Air Force would mistake handheld rifle fire with AAA flak guns. Besides, I think it's idiotic to be firing weapons into the air when there are warplanes with live ammo around. It's an Afghan "tradition"?!?! Since when? The 70's?

And you can feel free to drive your car in the US without carrying your driver's license. If you don't break the law or get into an accident, that's fine.

If you do either, you'll be breaking the law and be subject to the appropriate response.

Whether you have more personal freedom in UK or US is basically saying six or half-a-dozen. There are areas in which UK is more liberal and vice versa.

There is more freedom in the Uk than the US as we are given to common sense as opposed to masss hysteria. The clause about the right to bare arms, was to do with maintaing a militia in case the british invaded in the future, something we havent been in a position to do for some times. And do you relly need assault rifles for hunting ???

Maybe it is not the forum, but: the USA politic intern and especially the foreing politic is a disaster. Mr. Little George have no feeling what is going on in the MiddleEast (Irak/Palestina/Israel) and in the European Union. After 7/11 when the US had so much solidarity, the Europeas didn't just feel going into his strategy, the President just want to fight military, not looking at social and ecomicals issues for at lot of conflicts aroud the wworld. Sure I agry the fight against teorisme has to me the first object, but you can fight in many ways. There are a great difference between the way USA, EU and Russia look at it, and where should all the military be in the MdEast to throw Sadam from his thrown.? Jordan, Tyrkey, Saudia, 220000 troups?? I dont feel he has that big star in that area.
Just my humble thought. I have to tell you I love the US, and what they have done in history, for many reasons :-) except Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Chile, El Salvador and now Cuba, (where is the cold war?) e.g. allthough it is history, well not Cuba. :-)

[This message has been edited by bjerregaard (edited 07-18-2002).]

[This message has been edited by bjerregaard (edited 07-18-2002).]

When will you foreign members realise you should not criticize any aspect of American life, politics or for that matter so anything derogatory about the USA.
Arent just tired of hearing that this is the greatest in everything , most moral, smartest, richest, most powerful, best military in history, never ever did anything, dont give a crap about anybody else place in the world and because we are so powerful and if you dont like it, we may just take our navy and beat some understanding into you.
You never learn do you??
Mike

[This message has been edited by MIKESILV (edited 07-18-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MIKESILV:
When will you foreign members realise you should not criticize any aspect of American life, politics or for that matter so anything derogatory about the USA.
Arent just tired of hearing that this is the greatest in everything , most moral, smartest, richest, most powerful, best military in history, never ever did anything, dont give a crap about anybody else place in the world and because we are so powerful and if you dont like it, we may just take our navy and beat some understanding into you.
You never learn do you??
Mike
</font>

just a question - What are we supposed to be learning....?

I actually thought this was a Frequent Flyer-related forum, but it appears to be a political soapbox for all. So be it....

Personally, I have no issues with the US. I've always worked for US companies, have lots of American friends and love travelling in the US. Heck, I even lived in Boston and Dallas for a while. The thing is, there's nothing like coming home to 'Blighty'...

Apparently, I'm a 'foreign member'. Oo-er.. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
Mistakes happen. Being the strongest doesn't mean being perfect.

BTW, I think I know the incident with the A-10 that you're referring to. It was a convoy of British APC's, not US tanks. </font>

Agreed. I stand corrected, it was indeed British APC's. Still, aren't we US allies?

Back to the subject of this thread though - I agree that it is indeed unusual to go to a cinema with a carry-on bag. However, would I allow a teenaged 'manager' with no security training to search my bag? Absolutely not.

Alternatively, I'd give him the bag, tell him to open it and walk away whilst he does it.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Boy, this conversation got carried away. I was only talking about a bag search.

Dave - Nagoya, Japan

I would have to agree with the comments about the movie theatre being concerned with people bringing in food. It is a fairly common practice for them to do this. Something as large as a carry on would surely attract attention. Let's not over react to something as insignificant as this. If you took the same carry on into a store at a mall there is a good chance that you might be asked for a look as well because of potential shoplifting.
Let's get off the political soapboxes and look at this from a common sense perspective.

I think it is very sad that extreme security provisions have been installed at Pearl Harbor for those visiting either the USS Arizona memorial or the USS Missouri.
Women can't carry purses. No camera bags. Even a limit on size of cameras.
While this is being done in the name of preventing a "big" event, the public is being nickled and dimed at their "security" in another way. Since items of value must be left behind, thieves are breaking into vehicles making this a high crime zone.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by 777Brit:
Agreed. I stand corrected, it was indeed British APC's. Still, aren't we US allies?
</font>

Hey, don't think we forgot about the time you burned down Washington DC... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

There are a couple of factors to add - I'm not endorsing or condemning any of the issues specifically, just food for thought....

Although the Aventura area in and of itself is quite affluent, there have been problems within the last few years with violence and fighting between groups of young people from nearby neighborhoods at theatre complexes within, say, a 5-mile radius of the Aventura mall complex. IIRC one incident, at the movie complex at the 163rd Street Mall, involved gunfire. So it's possible the general management at Aventura has a "preemptive" policy in place, and to keep it fair, it's applied to everyone with any type of oversized parcel (bigger than a purse etc). I also wonder if there was a visible sign, either at the box office or at the ticket-taking position, stating words to the effect of "all packages subject to search"?

Given Aventura's suburban location (maybe halfway between downtown Miami and downtown FLL, at the northernmost part of Miami Dade County), and given South Florida's virtual lack of meaningful public transportation, I'd guess that that at least 95% of the people who visit Aventura mall come via automobile. With the expectation that most people would lock their large parcels in their car trunk to avoid schlepping them around a movie complex, the general management may well have instructed the young staff to search bags (it does make you wonder how often this happens, since shoppers may very well come into the theatre directly from the adjacent Bloomingdales and other stores).....

The final factor is that this IS summer, and all of the "blockbusters" are now playing. These are the exact kinds of movies the pirates want very badly, so maybe HQ has sent out instructions for workers to be extra vigilant



[This message has been edited by Non-NonRev (edited 07-21-2002).]

There is a huge difference between Adventura on the beach, and that used-to-be-middle-class mall on 163rd street.

One is civilized, the other is now the "hood."

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
Hey, don't think we forgot about the time you burned down Washington DC... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif</font>

Oops, sorry 'bout that... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by 777Brit:
Oops, sorry 'bout that... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif</font>

Wait, what do you mean "sorry"?

I'm looking for the British Navy and Marines to come back and finish the job! Pay special attention to the TSA offices.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Plato90s (edited 07-21-2002).]

i spent 45 minutes in line for a security checkpoint yesterday. the lines for the 10+ metal detectors were moving slowly, and all bags were being hand searched. but people took it in stride....

this was at six flags new england. theme parks have been doing this for years now--well before 9/11. we've just gotten used to it.

on the bright side, we paid extra for reserved coaster boarding, and it was worth every penny. you think the looks are bad when you use the first class checkin, try skipping the line at "superman: ride of steel". :-)

I can understand searching the large bags for video equipment or things that may cause harm to other patrons, but what is the deal with taking candy or other food in. I think some theaters are using 9/11 as an excuse to try and keep people from bring in food in order to increase their food sales. I'd like to see someone put that rule up to scrutiny. And as an aside, I do think we have taxes without representation. What about taxing someone working in your city but living outside it and giving them no say on how the city is run? Just a thought.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by beancounter:
I think some theaters are using 9/11 as an excuse to try and keep people from bring in food in order to increase their food sales. I'd like to see someone put that rule up to scrutiny.</font>

What has 9/11 got to do with it? In my experience, movie theaters have always explicitly forbidden people from bringing food in from outside. Does it suck? Yeah, but thems the rules. Plus show me where we are guaranteed the right to bring our own food wherever we please, onto private property. I bet you can't find that one. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">And as an aside, I do think we have taxes without representation. What about taxing someone working in your city but living outside it and giving them no say on how the city is run? Just a thought.</font>

You got me there.

[This message has been edited by SRQ Guy (edited 07-24-2002).]