Trip Reports - Amsterdam and London

I am off to Amsterdam and London for a 9 day vacation. Thanks to some of you with tips on both cities.

Isn't travelling for fun so different from travelling for pleasure? I might have one meeting when I am there but the purpose is fun.

I'll keep you posted.

I guess that depends on how you define "fun" and "pleasure". http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif But it sounds like you have nothing but both on your mind... Have a great trip!

Hello again, F'Talker, here are many of my recent thrills and chills and peak moments. I am numbering each section in case anyone wants to comment.

1. A leisurely visit through IAD where many rolls of film are painstakingly examined

I didn't want my rolls of film to go through too many x-ray machines so I asked them to be hand examined. I had put them in clear cannisters in a clear plastic bag, just for this exigency.

A supervisor had to come over. Many people flowing slowly and painfully through security while supervisor 1 and supervisor 2 come over.

Then I am sent to the Special Desk. Shoes off, please. Why? You aren't picking on me special, are you, just because I want my film hand examined? No. Strictly routine.

Now I sit back and the nice gentleman takes one roll of film out of its clear cannister, wipes it with the magic paper, puts the magic paper in the machine, waits for the results, then puts the film back into its clear cannister. This takes 1 or 2 minutes.

"Why not wipe all of them, then if there is a positive, separately wipe each of them in that case? If there is no positive, this saves a lot of time and money," I was afraid to ask, but I did, and he said that this is simply policy. "Someone the other day had 84 rolls that I had to do this way," he said. He was very nice, actually, and only complained that I didn't have more film because this was a fairly enjoyable activity in which to engage prior to his lunchbreak.

Gasp!! The UA flight to AMS!!!!!!
Upgraded in advance to business. No preflight drinks. Harried staff.

Dinner good except for a "pate" appetizer that did not make the usual high standard mark.

All FAs disappear for hours, gather and gab around the galley. Breakfast is served, an excellent fruit plate.

Immigration and customs in Schipol are a breeze. No forms to fill out! Oh, this simple-minded Dutch, how can they ever expect to control their borders without myriad forms and nasty questions.

We lugged our suitcases (first off the carousel -- those Priority Tags mean something to those Schipolians!) to the train station.

3. Train ride to Novotel -- a clue about smoking

The train said "no smoking" all over the place (verboden de roken, something like that, plus in several other languages in case your Dutch is a bit rusty) but there were ashtrays all over the train. This is typical in Amsterdam. It doesn't bother me (in fact I like the freedom and peace of letting people do their own thang) but all over Holland (or at least Amsterdam where we were) people smoke everywhere, like chimneys, and the signs and portents telling you not to (there aren't many) are not taken even a mite seriously.

We exited the train at RAI stop, on the outskirts of Amsterdam, near the places that businesspersons like to congregate, and checked into Holland's biggest hotel, Novotel (drumroll) with over five hundred rooms.

Despite this plethora of rooms, we checked in quickly and our rooms were clean, comfortable and reasonably quiet.

We took the #4 tram from near the hotel and headed into the Centre.

4. Van Gogh and Gauguin
Transportation in Amsterdam consists of trams, buses and foot. Everyone who lives there rides their bikes. Bikes are everywhere, thousands of them, millions of them. The "Park 'n' Ride" at a train station is a "Ride 'n' Ride" with billions of bikes chained together or to trees or people or whatever's handy.

We got these tickets good for 16 tram or bus rides for some ridiculously little price. We walked all over and trammed and bussed.

One day we went to the Rijksmuseum (sp?) and another time we went to the Van Gogh museum. We saw the most awesome exhibit documenting Gauguin's and Van Gogh's relationship through their art. This is worth flying to Amsterdam just to see although recently I believe the exhibit was in Chicago. Poor Van Gogh, things didn't work out so well for him and he cut off part of his ear (no mention of sending it to his girlfriend, not sure he had one.) The paintings are so moving, and comparing the depth and pathos and feeling you get from a Van Gogh to the mastery of Gauguin is quite a contrast.

I especially love the painting of the room in the "Yellow House." A bed, a chair, somehow so moving and magnificent. Another painting of his chair and Gauguin's chair were also indescribable and special.

We also saw Rembrandts including of course Nachtwacht (sp?). There is a reason that Rembrandt is held in such awe as one of the greatest painters. These paintings (and others there too) are incredibly moving.

In between we walked around (oh no, took a turn and there were the women in the windows, eek the red light district), had the most incredible chocolates (Unlimted Delicious I think it was called) ever, and visited relatives of a brother-in-law for dinner.

(Meanwhile, everyone smoked and rode bikes.)

5. Dinner with new friends
The taxi drivers were the friendliest people, cheerful and upbeat. We took a taxi to our new friend's house on the outskirts of the city not far from our hotel and chatted with the driver. Everyone in Amsterdam speaks twelve languages including of course French, Italian, Ibonian, Dutch, Flemish (just kidding), Belgian Waffleease, English, English, German, and English.

This makes it easy to get around if you speak English, but hard to learn any Dutch because the Dutch just answer you back in whatever language you speak and there you have it.

Anyhoo, the driver brought us to our new friend's house and we had a lovely dinner. The girl took our girl to her scouts' meeting, where apparently they discussed movies and boys, and our son played with their boy (Playstation 2). Ahh, boys will be boys and girls girls, won't they be, ehh? Meanwhile the big people talked and our new friends spoke good English of course, so us stupid Americans could understand them.

The next day we did the obligatory canal ride and Sunday we went back to Schipol and hopped to London Stansted.

6. London on US$700 per day (Warning -- contains obscene and offensive language, may not be suitable for FlyerTalkers)

Stansted is an easy airport and a very nice gentleman aboard the KLM flight told me how to get to where we were staying, so we found this pretty easy. A person sitting in front of us consulted with him and together they provided us perfect directions involving only one train and two tube transfers, and perhaps less than 2,000 steps that we had to haul fourteen bags on because they have no working escalators, no working lifts, and antiquated stations (try being disabled in London, yeah right).

The Stansted Express takes you through the prettiest neighborhoods (irony) and eventually we ended up at the Knightsbridge Green, with only two hernias between us. Why didn't we take the train to Liverpool Street and then just hop a cab? I am trying to build muscles so this was a shortcut to having a good body, and that is why we hauled the bags through the Underground, okay?

The Knightsbridge Green is a lovely hotel right on Knightsbridge around the corner from Brompton and Harrods. If you like small, quiet places, this is it. It has about 20 rooms or so, and is the precise opposite of the Amsterdam Novotel. They are very friendly and the location is fantastic, right across from Hyde Park and next to the Knightsbridge tube station, near Piccadily etc. I recommend this hotel mightily and it is not really too expensive.

But the rest of London, well...

Thinking about where we ate, family of four, two adults and two kids...all converted into US$

$90 for a lunch in a BAR

$36 for a CHEAP greasy spoon breakfast

$120 for a dinner where only two of us had entrees

Okay, and we went to the theatre every night, buying at the half price TKTS booth in Leicester Square.

We did not take a single taxi, riding the tube or bus everywhere.

Theatre tickets $120
Hotel, two rooms, $300
Crummy meals, $200
Transportatation $15
Miscellaneous $50

It all adds up. The food wasn't anything that great. We ate Chinese, Indian, English, and Miscellaneous. We even had an American meal with friends at a "50s style" place where we ate grass-fed Irish beef "cheeseburgers." The beer was good.

There are a lot of homeless people too, some of whom camp out in the Underground. Not as many as in Washington DC but you can see it is the beginning of a problem.

Many of the people we met and spoke with were tense and unhappy. A few lived a zillion miles out from London and commuted on train, tube, and bus, just to get to work. I found it quite dirty compared to how I remembered it and not a bit relaxed (haven't been to London in 25 years, what do I expect?)

7. Little jaunts

Visited the British Museum ($25). The mummies and the 2000 year old "Lindow Man" are worth the trip. Don't miss the huge exhibit of reliefs taken from the Parthenon. I have never seen statuary of this quality before.

Another day we took a train out to Cambridge ($75 for the train). Cambridge was very interesting. Went into Saint John's Chapel ($12) which is awesome. It was built around the fifteenth century and is a striking example of fan arches that support the structure and give your eyes a treat. The Rubens (something about the Magi I believe) that is usually displayed there was closed for Easter for some reason.

Walked around a lot, had a lousy snack ($35) and trained back to London.

Another day, visited Greenwich and the Maritime Museum (normally they charge but it was free, perhaps because of the lateness of the time of day). Very nice, and I wish we had seen the Observatory but we got there a little late in the day.

We walked through Hyde Park ($2 for a cup of coffee) in the morning.

Piccadilly and Leicester are very, very crowded and I don't really like those areas much. Went by the Parliament building and saw Big Ben etc. but did not go in. Too crowded, burned out on the huge number of tourists and the high cost.

We visited the Tower of London but walked around but did not wait in the long line to go inside.

One highlight was the theatre:

Woman in Black -- marvelous and scary two-person play, really engaging and well-written and acted. The guy in front of us screamed, and lots of people screamed and then laughed at their fright.

Art -- superb, funny and with a message, well-written, fantastic acting. Deservedly very popular. See it if you can. The story is about three friends, one of whom spends 200,000 francs on a painting that is only a white canvas. Much more than about art, really more about life and right on.

Julius Caesar -- Royal Shakespeare Company is awesome, what an experience. They make a real effort to entertain in this mass media day and age. The actors are incredible, they make the play so alive. This production casts Caesar as a baddie. The only negative was seeing Caesar in his thong underwear, why did they have to do that?

Kiss Me Kate-- sat in the FRONT ROW. Shook hands with the conductor (loved his enthusiasm). Saw every drop of sweat and spittle, the actors are REAL PEOPLE and you have to admire their professionalism. This production is tops (brilliant as the British say) and I recommend it highly, the highlight of our London trip. The Cole Porter music and the dancing and singing is stunning. The story is lightweight but who cares?


8. The Incident in Dis Skys

So onward on the Piccadily line to Heathrow and through United's process. We visited the SAS Business Class club and it was completely empty with excellent beverages, Internet computers, friendly staff. There is a smoking lounge if you like to smoke. We tried to get into the Thai Airways Royal Orchid lounge but it was closed.

Time to board. Uh oh, a couple with a baby (not quite a toddler, not an infant anymore either) and they bring in about three huge cases full of baby stuff. The wife kneels at the baby's feet until take-off.

I have kids myself. Some of my best friends were or are kids. I traveled with my kids on Continental First Class once, trans continental when they were perhaps 4 and 5, and I have a lot of sympathy for the situation.

So hours go by and the kid is screaming his head off. They are seated at the bulkhead just before the F cabin. People are trying to sleep, busiensspeople. Rather than let the kid scream and tire himself out, they try to soothe him and he screams and stops, screams and stops.

The husband asks my wife sitting across to shut her shade so baby can sleep. Ha ha. Screaming, screaming. About 30% of the time the baby was screaming.

Hours more go by. Finally I got up and told them that they had made me angry. They should have sat in coach. Nothing to do about it now, but I wanted to get it off my chest. That upset them greatly. Mister told me they had every right to sit here. I agreed that they did, and I had every right to tell them how I feel about it.

Mister called the FA over and complained about me. The pilot comes back and few minutes later and speaks to the mister. The FAs were no longer nice to me. They had disappeared anyway, gabbing in the galley for hours, so that wasn't a great loss.

I felt stress and tension palpably in the air. It was hard for me to tell these people how I felt, but on the other hand, they did in fact remove baby from the cabin for almost the entire remainder of the flight. I wasn't expecting any good to come out of it, but it did.

So what would you do? My wife said she overheard a businessperson who said he was just getting to sleep when baby screamed, and I know that everyone in that cabin felt as I did.

I view Business Class as a good restaurant. I don't complain when kids in McDonalds scream their head off, but in a good restaurant, when we had babies and they made lots of noise we left. We did not inflict screaming baby on others. These people were thoughtless and inconsiderate. I got it off my chest. I didn't feel better, but it actually had an effect. Perhaps I am stupid and immature about this, just relating my feelings and the facts.

So there are some observations on my trip to Amsterdam and London.

I hope you will share your comments with me. Thank you.



[This message has been edited by richard (edited 03-30-2002).]

I actually really enjoyed your report. I hope the parts I found humorous were intended to be. Your insights about London were very helpful, as I am planning a similar family trip this summer. I am curious about your choice of hotel in London - surely you could have done better ratewise with a "family" room at another hotel? Was it important to stay at the one you did? Also, my son (now 10) has been travelling in F or Business class for many years. With him we used exactly the same analogy you did, ie. McDonald's vs. a good restaurant. He thought through it and decided he likes having his Coke served in a crystal wine glass with hot nuts rather than in a plastic cup with snack mix. Lesson learned.

You stated the British Museum cost you $25. But it`s my understanding that museum as well as many others are free, except for special shows. When I was there 2 years ago, no admission was charged.

yyzflyer, we got two complete separate rooms, very nice, for a very good price inclusive of VAT. We were referred here by a friend and very pleased.

I would suggest spending more time outside of London, but that is just me. I would expect to spend US$700 or more per day, perhaps $500 on the low side, if you want to go to the theatre and sit in decent seats. OTOH, you could go for $200 per day perhaps, staying and eating very low end.

m, you are right, the British Museum is free although there is a suggested donation of 3 pounds. I apologize for missing this detail. Other attractions (Tower, even access to look around the colleges at Cambridge) cost money, often 3 or 4 pounds per adult.

richard, fun trip report, thank you. I've spent $60-$80 for none too clean broom closets with a bed shoved in, so I have no trouble believing your $300 rooms. London is about the most expensive city on earth, and the British Museum is it's best bargain. I've also done the 'schlep the suitcases up and down 2000 steps across town' thing to save the taxi fare - my new definition of 'no fun'. I did the Tower thing, too, and you definitely didn't miss anything. The only truly interesting part of it was discovering that our 'Ripper Tour' guide of the previous night was a Yeoman in his day job.

I sympathise with you on the crying kid thing, tho I think it's a bit easier to walk out of a restaurant than is a 747 at 30,000 feet http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Thanks for some great comments, Richard. On a recent trip, I experienced the friendliness of the immigration agents (and just about everyone else) at AMS. How do they manage to do such an adequate job, and be positive and cheerful while doing it? Puts our US agents to shame.

On your comments about traveling in the UK, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I feel sorry for the British, who generally have to leave their own country to have an affordable vacation in places like Palma, Ibiza, etc. On a recent trip to Italy, I had to stop in London for one night due to the connection, and spent about 3 days worth of what I would've spent in Italy. I wasn't even splurging, but just trying to find a crappy bed and breakfast to stay in, and go see London for a little while. I assure you, it met my expectations fully, and was crappy in the fullest, for 40 pounds a night.

Add on top of that the fact that airport taxes are simply outrageous flying into any London airport internationally, and you understand why I've resolved not to go to London on anything but business in the future. Certainly not for pleasure. I'll spend my money elsewhere. I connect through places like Frankfurt or Munich nowadays instead.

Why do the British think that they're on top of the world, when the quality of life there is so palpably miserable? Seems to me, their own rejection of the Euro is shooting themselves in the foot. But enough from me...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TA:
Thanks for some great comments, Richard. On a recent trip, I experienced the friendliness of the immigration agents (and just about everyone else) at AMS. How do they manage to do such an adequate job, and be positive and cheerful while doing it? Puts our US agents to shame.

On your comments about traveling in the UK, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I feel sorry for the British, who generally have to leave their own country to have an affordable vacation in places like Palma, Ibiza, etc. On a recent trip to Italy, I had to stop in London for one night due to the connection, and spent about 3 days worth of what I would've spent in Italy. I wasn't even splurging, but just trying to find a crappy bed and breakfast to stay in, and go see London for a little while. I assure you, it met my expectations fully, and was crappy in the fullest, for 40 pounds a night.

Add on top of that the fact that airport taxes are simply outrageous flying into any London airport internationally, and you understand why I've resolved not to go to London on anything but business in the future. Certainly not for pleasure. I'll spend my money elsewhere. I connect through places like Frankfurt or Munich nowadays instead.

Why do the British think that they're on top of the world, when the quality of life there is so palpably miserable? Seems to me, their own rejection of the Euro is shooting themselves in the foot. But enough from me... </font>

The cost of the UK isn't high. London is expensive, but then so are many major cities. Look at the prices of hotels in New York for example. Hotel prices for good standard hotels can be quite reasonable, I have often paid prices like £32 for a room including breakfast at 3/4* hotels at weekends for example and £64 midweek. Cheaper than I paid for hotels in the US.

You talk about quality of life, now there is something where I believe the UK ( and most other countries are streets ahead ). What other Western country workers only get 2 weeks annual leave? The typical minimum in the UK is 4 weeks with 5+ weeks being not uncommon. In Germany for example it is higher. I was offered a role in the US and it would have involved having 1 months less leave a year, I didn't take the job due to quality of life.

Dave

Dave Noble, I think it has to do with two things: high costs of living in London, and the poor exchange rate.

In Amsterdam, the Dutch people I spoke to said they "couldn't afford" to travel to Great Britain because of the poor exchange rate between the Euro and the Pound. Perhaps they were making excuses because they didn't want to go anyway, but it does make sense.

I agree with you re New York, but I think London is much more expensive than New York.

We ate at some low end places in London and the meals were much more expensive than similar fare in New York and also much greasier and less edible.

I have eaten at low end coffee shops in New York and spent $5 or $10 for a meal. I couldn't see doing that in London, though. We had one breakfast at a cheap place and for four of us it cost 25 pounds. It was very greasy and we did not want to go back. They were very nice and friendly there, though.

The quality of life issue I wouldn't presume to argue with. It is very subjective. You can have a great life anywhere, really.

What you say about time off is entirely true. Americans have less time off for holiday than Europeans and Britons, no doubt, who find this state of affairs appalling.

I am convinced that we all pay a price for our choices, in a sense. The standard of living measured by some standards appeared lower in London and Amsterdam than in the US (size of the average house, size and number of the average cars owned, this type of thing) but what does that really mean?

My new friends in Amsterdam explained how easy it was to collect disability in Holland, and that 15% of the population were on disability. This is a terrible social problem. There is a price to pay when everyone gets a mandatory 32 hour work week, or a mandatory 5 weeks of vacation, etc. The price is going to be in the form of long term uncompetitiveness in the global economy a lower living standard, and more difficulty in becoming well off because of higher taxes.

That said, living standards are all personal so I quite agree with you really.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dave Noble:

...annual leave? The typical minimum in the UK is 4 weeks with 5+ weeks being not uncommon. In Germany for example it is higher. I was offered a role in the US and it would have involved having 1 months less leave a year, I didn't take the job due to quality of life.

Dave</font>

1. Huge sales taxes (VAT) significantly increase the cost to tourists.

2. Britons' insist on long holidays, but the labor force is not particularly productive the rest of the year. The labor force demands the same high wages. Labor cost is thus artifically high. This means employers get less bang for the buck... and so do tourists. Ergo, prices in Britain are unreasonably high.

Richard, I agree with you (and your restaurant analogy) that people with crying babies shouldn't be in Business Class.

Unfortunately, there are so many anti-child people out there, that complaints with merit, such as yours, are drowned out by the stupid complaints from everyone else. The parents you ran into may have been *****ed out in coach on a prior flight, so they figured, "**** it, if we're going to get *****ed out anyway, might as well be in comfortable seats".

I have three children myself, and I never take the kids to a nice restaurant or sit in Business Class on a plane. Yet I have gotten *****ed out by mean old farts at places such as McDonald's and the playground! I'm not kidding! In fact, the old farts at McDonald's are so irritating, I don't even go there anymore (and I love McDonald's food).

Attn child-haters: if you would shut your trap when it's not needed, genuine complaints such as screaming babies in Business or First Class on a 14 hour flight, or crying kids in a nice restaurant, would get the attention they deserve. But when I see 85-year-old Mr. & Mrs. *****alot at McDonald's for crying out loud, I throw up my hands in disgust and pray for a special place in hell for them!

I enjoyed this. Thank you!!

Nice report Richard,,,, thanks.

Regarding babies in the premium cabins, I was on a flight last week from Florida back to DC and there were plenty of open seats in FC (it was an A-321 with 26 FC seats - maybe half full). There was a last minute couple with a baby who sat down in row 3 just before departure. Yes, the child cried a significant portion of the flight, disturbing the other FC passengers. I remember thinking that if the couple payed for FC seats, I guess it's their right to sit there with a lap child. I would hold a less generous opinion if they had just been upgraded. And I would have been really upset if I'd found out they were employees upgraded at the last second... my $.02.


[This message has been edited by geo1004 (edited 04-02-2002).]

Hey Richard, great trip report. I had a nice response ready, and AOL threw me off, alas, it wasn't meant to be.

Here is the short version. I love AMS, everyone speaks English, and I am grateful not to have to fill out those pesky forms at AMS. I fly into the UK, am the only American, non Euro on the plane, and I stand there filling out the card and being processed while everyone else waltzes through, hate it, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif.

As for the UK, yes, agree wholeheartedly, sorry Dave. It is way too expensive for most people. I will try to stopover and give a courtesy hello to the UK(I am half British-ancestry from all over the UK) but will now spend way more time on the Continent. This is the case for many, I can assure you. The UK is unaffordable for most people.

Their new taxes on departures are insane, with a 40 pound luxury tax on Business/First out of any UK Airport. My friend just flew standby on Delta out of Gatwick. By being upgraded to Business, he had to shell out 40 quid, about $60US, maybe a bit less, depends who exchanges your money http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif. From now on, he flies back from the continent, no exceptions...

As for Europe and their borders, with all due respect, that is a lost cause... with Schengen, they have no control over their borders and it is easy to penetrate Europe. Switzerland(different immigration system) makes for a very nice loophole, i.e. there are crossings where the French don't even man the checkpoint into France, then you get free access to all of Schengen. They were crazy to do what they did, but then it is their borders. Thousands are coming through the "chunnel", so the UK is taking a hit. Atleast the Britts were smart enough to stay out of Schengen, but it is a lost cause, as far as I am concerned and very sorry to say.

I loved the report, informative, and I like the subjective viewpoint. As for London and the bags, I would have toughed it out and paid the taxi. London's tube system is insane for bags, fine with carry on...
thanks...

Oh, as for smoking/roken, etc., Europe is one big smoking section. Can't stand the smell of smoke in their restaurants, but what do you do ? With my family, I tough it out, they insist on a resto and a 3 hour dinner. With myself, unless dining with a friend over there, I eat express and take out,etc... The smoke drives me crazy and the signs don't mean anything. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

------------------
Michael
AA PLT,1 MLN Miles+
HH GLD, SCI GLD, MM SIL
LE PRESIDENT ETERNEL DE CAMAIR-CAMEROUN AIRLINES :)