Trip Reports - Air France.....GIG-CDG




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Carioca Canuck
Oct 9, 01, 1:03 pm
I flew back to Rio de Janeiro from Calgary to get married last month, and this is my trip report on an Air France A340 in "Tempo" (economy) class. I took my wife to Paris for our honeymoon.....what a combination, lots of miles http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif and a romantic setting http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif.

It is my first AF experience.

For those of you who have not read any of my posts, I hang out on the AC board and fly about 50,000+ miles per year with AC which qualifies me as an AC Elite/Star Gold FF'er.

For anybody wondering, the reason I flew AF was that a comparable flight on Star Alliance carrier Varig was 35% more in US dollars and it's a price I was not willing to pay for Varig's product.....had it been on the TAM A330, maybe....but not on one of Varig's MD-11's.

I was recently VERY impressed with a United flight to Rio....and believe me AF is also fantastic.....in the air anyways....the ground is another story. Having said that....2 segments does not make a valid statistical survey....but if this trip is a hint of their inflight service AC has a long way to go to match other international carriers as AF's economy was just as good as AC's Executive First. You don't need a big seat when it's a seat that is designed properly in the first place.

GIG-CDG AF441.......

We arrived at Galeao (GIG) at 2000 hours for our scheduled departure of 2200 hours on the A340 that does this routing. I am glad that AF uses the Airbus here and not the 777 that they use to Sao Paulo (GRU) as I find this Boeing aircraft noisy and I have a particular dislike of the 777 having flown one from MIA-DEN previously.

At the terminal line up before you get to the counter, AF has a person who checks your documents as well as your baggage for size, etc, and also questions you about your carry ons, etc, before allowing you to continue in the normal line. Once we cleared this, the counter agent was very friendly and we were assigned seats 31A and 31B which are just beside the first galley in the economy section of the aircraft.

The counter agent in Rio did not appear to know how to enter our "Frequence Plus" numbers in the computer http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif so after some inquiries I decided to forget about it and mail in the paperwork later. The supervisor on duty also did not know how to do this either. Hhhhmmmmmmmmm. More on this later.

There was no line at security as we went thru...even with the carry on luggage being searched and each of us physically patted down regardless of what the metal detector did when we passed thru it. Kudos here goes to Infraero....the Brasilian airport authority for the security measures.

Once boarding was called we were again asked to present our passports with our boarding passes where they were once again extensively scrutinized. The AF agents checked for the reflective security features imbedded in the passport as well as looking at the binding of the document and the bonding of the pages with our photos. It was quite interesting to watch as there was also a second agent watching us for our reactions to this scrutiny.

Pushback was on time and we took off at about 2210 local time.

Now here is where it gets interesting for me. Being a some what naive and loyal AC flier I was very impressed by a recent flight on United to Rio. Were my eyes ever opened by AF.

The seats on the AF A340 are from Recaro (the manufacturer of car seats) and are "very" firm and extremely orthopedically well designed IMO. AF's seat pitch was generous (like AC's) and at no time was I ever uncomfortable. AC's 767's have terrible seats that are very soft and uncomfortable for an 11 hour flight. PTV's are in the headrests of the seat in front of you and AF has about 15+ channels as well as their GPS in flight tracking system. AC has none of this.

Shortly after take off the cabin crew started to pass out amenity kits !!!! In economy !!!! Every passenger (this was a 3 class aircraft) received a kit containing a sleeping mask, ear plugs, moist towellettes and a booklet with relaxation and stretching exercises in it. That was a nice touch as I had forgot my AC "Executive First" kit at home and was trying to buy a sleeping mask in the duty free but they were sold out. You might receive a damp cold towellette in AC economy....and that's it.

After we reached 41,000 feet the crew then passed out menus for our meal service. MENUS ??? You mean it's not chicken or beef ??? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif I checked to see if I had really gotten an amenity kit, then checked my boarding pass to see if I wasn't in first class !!!!

Nicoise Salad
Fish with Escabeche sauce
Moqueca with rice
Beef Bourguignon
Fettucine Alfredo and Vichy Carrots
Fromage Frais with Guava paste
A selection of Camembert cheeses
Coconut Flan with plum sauce
Apple tartine
coffee and tea

Chardonnay VDP Ile de Beaute
Maison AVF
Cabernet VDP doc Fortant de France
Vinde pays de saint-sardos
Maison Rigal
Stella Artios Beer
Mineral water
Any soda or liquor you wanted
FREE of charge and bottomless glasses......

Not only was the food very tasty and properly cooked for an airline.....they also came around several times for liquor/wine service and also to offer you a choice of fresh buns that were heated and served from a wicker basket....just like "Executive First" on AC. All this in economy.

The flight was uneventful so I took some time to walk around the aircraft and check out the seating arrangements as AF does not permit you to preselect seats. It is only done at the airport. Seats in row 21 are the most coveted on the A340 as they are bulkhead seats and on the AF aircraft they have about 4 feet of legroom !!! Guess which row we flew back to Rio in !!!!

Landing at CDG was on time.

Now, here's where it get's bad again....we are filling up the jetway as we disembark but no one is allowed to exit into the terminal !!!??? Imagine a full pax compliment of an A340 cramming the long jetway at CDG's T2. A frustrated AF ground crew member was motioning for us from the parallel jetway to get back on the plane. About 2-3 minutes later as we are all packed like sardines in the tunnel, they started to take us back off the aircraft and decided to let us out of the jetway after all. We never did make it back into the plane.

Apparently there was no one to check our passports as we exited the jetway ??? Why bother with this ??? We were checked extensively in Rio during boarding and had not yet gone thru customs or immigration ??? Isn't that their job ???

Immigration was no problem as we didn't need visas....but customs was quite intimidating. I had no problem whatsoever with this part though.

As we rounded the corner of the hall, we were confronted by 8 National Police, all heavily armed and about 4 Legionaires in combat fatigues with sub machine guns. If you would have been a terrorist or anybody with bad intentions you probably would have soiled your pants. Here we were checked thoroughly and admitted to the free part of the terminal.

AF 442 CDG-GIG.......

We arrived at 1000 hours for our 1215 departure. Check in was the same layout as Rio....but the agent knew how to enter our FP number this time. The people were very nice in CDG by the way.

We were once again searched and patted down at security as well. Kudos to AF for this measure.

This flight had a different and very enjoyable menu as well from our flight of one week ago....not chicken or beef like AC ALWAYS has.

It was uneventful and we landed in Rio on time some 11 hours later.

Frequence Plus Customer Service.......

As I had some concerns about the miles being posted to our new accounts as a result of the Rio counter agent, I spoke to FP today on the phone at their Los Angeles office where they credited my account over the phone with the mileage for the missing first segment !!! Say what !!!??? Now this is customer service. All I had to do was give them the ticket numbers and they verified and credited it immediately.

In all....we received enough miles with the joining bonus for a round trip for each of us anywhere in Europe on AF as a result of this trip.

Will I fly them again. YES...no question as they fly from Montreal to Paris. I'll connect on AF to European destinations from there instead of AC on transatlantics from now on.

Once I hit Elite on AC again next year I'll switch to Skyteam as often as possible as they have TAM (my preferred Brasilian airline...and IMO the BEST in Brasil) as a partner.

Observations about Paris/Parisians.......

As a Canadian, I also speak fluent Parisian (as opposed to Quebecois) French....but whenever I spoke to someone there, they always answered me back in English. Go figure.

People outside Paris are MUCH nicer than those from within the city. Also, restaurant waiters, while not rude...are very curt and unfriendly. However, their attitudes are made up for by the excellent food. If it wasn't for the 4-5 hours of daily walking thru Paris on sightseeing, I would have gained 10 pounds. As it was I came home weighing the same.

Taxi drivers are to be avoided at all costs.....sorry, but all my three of my experiences were terrible.....the worst being when our hotel called for a cab at 6am to take us somewhere and the two cars that arrived outside both refused because the fare to the destination (about 50 FF) was too cheap. It seems they were expecting trips to CDG instead. The drivers were incredibly rude to the hotel clerk...they apparently didn't realize that I understood everything that they were saying to him as I am fluent in the language. So we walked instead.

Everybody in Paris has a map. We often ran into people on the street looking at their maps trying to find their way around. The old part of the city was designed when the term civil engineer did not exist. Personally I blame the maps...they are too small and the printing is almost microscopic. We were about 2 blocks from our hotel on the first night after dinner and it took us about 1 hour to find it. It couldn't have possibly been all the wine we drank.....which costs the same as a coke. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

French people smoke too much.....everywhere it seems, except the airport.

The Metro/RER is fantastic....why buy a car ? Or take a taxi ?

The Eiffel Tower is a waste of time....it's a lousy hunk of metal, where you wait 2 hours to go up, all the time being accosted by street hawkers. We never bothered. The Arc d'Triomphe is larger than the impression that you get from photos. It's spectacular !!!

Paris, overall, is a great city....you must go there once......twice if you can afford it....it's vveerrryyyyy expensive relative to the USA, Canada and South America.



[This message has been edited by Carioca Canuck (edited 10-09-2001).]


aw
Oct 9, 01, 10:34 pm
Carioca,

I'm glad you had an excellent trip on AF and enjoyed my favorite city. Overall I think AF Coach product is one of the best up there. Very few carriers provide you with an amenity kit and a printed menu with pictures of the meals in Y. In addition, I think the crew is very professional and polite, although at times they are reserved and not overly friendly. This is fine with me, since I do not happen to equate friendliness with good service necessarily.

The ground crew is less consistent and can be right down rude. I once flew on AC from YYZ-LHR on a 747-400 and I was stuck in Y. The service was efficient but no amenities nor printed menus. I did encounter footrests, though. If I have a choice, I'd rather fly AF before AC. On the other hand, I tend to like AC Executive Class very much. I think the meals are fine and seat comfort is good. I love the A320's Executive Class since it is one of the most spacious cabins for N. American flights.

cockpitvisit
Oct 9, 01, 10:48 pm
Thanks for the trip report!

If you come to the Eiffel Tower early (no later than 10am), the queue seems to be quite manageable... I waited about 15 minutes this summer. Then, a lot of tour buses full of people started arriving. When I left the tower one hour later, the queue was huge, with the waiting time predicted about 1h30.

In one aspect, my experience was very different from what you described. When I spoke to people in English, they almost always responded in French http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


cweb
Oct 10, 01, 2:14 am
Carioca Canuck,
I visited Paris at the end of June, and had just the opposite reaction. I found the Arc d'Triomphe to be less than I had expected (maybe because of the 1.5 hour walk on a HOT Saturday afternoon from the Louvre), and was even more impressed by the Eiffel Tower than I thought I would be. The lines were not bad at all (15 minutes to take the elevator on a Friday night), and the view was just fantastic. The best was the lighting of the Eiffel Tower (I believe at 11 at night). Very beautiful!! Thanks for the great report, though!

Chris

Arnur
Oct 10, 01, 5:03 am
Carioca Canuck, you mentioned that passports were checked at the exit of the plane in Paris. This is by no means rare, in fact in Frankfurt it happens everytime you arrive from a developing country. The reason for this is the fear that asylum seekers / refugees might try to sneak into the EU. Authorities do not trust the passport checks at check-in - once people enter the transit area, it's more difficult to send them back to their home countries, as they often destroy their documents. Sad but true.

These checks can be very irritating and slow, my girlfriend recently missed her connection at Frankfurt because of this.

Carioca Canuck
Oct 10, 01, 8:04 am
Thanks to everyone for the interesting replies so far.

I'd like to ad a few more comments...namely...the restaurant service was excellent there...in NA we tend to expect friendly outgoing service staff...I guess it's a cultural thing...no big deal...it was professional enough...just different.

I'll keep the Eiffel Tower tip in mind the next time we go there...we walked the Louvre, then up Champs Elysse to the Arc...and then over to the Tower. We arrived at the tower at about 4pm. That was our own fault I guess...but who would have guessed a 2 hour line up.

Arnur,

Your explanation now makes sense for the rigourous documentary inspection thru the whole AF boarding process as well.

Frog
Oct 10, 01, 2:15 pm
One comment to Arnur's response.
And if an illegal immigrant is taken without the adequate visa, it's up to the company who carried the person to Europe to send it back to its own cost...

Andrew Yiu
Oct 10, 01, 8:44 pm
Congrats and all the best on your new marriage! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif and thanks for the great report!

Austman
Oct 11, 01, 3:13 am
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Paris, overall, is a great city....you must go there once......twice if you can afford it....it's vveerrryyyyy expensive relative to the USA, Canada and South America.
</font>

Thanks for the report. Finally some nicer words about AF!

I'm puzzled that you found Paris so expensive? I go there several times a year and to the USA also. I find the US is far more expensive these days. And even London costs a lot more.

Mind you I do not stay in 5 star hotels nor use room service nor take taxis everywhere nor eat in Michelin starred restaurants. Good hotels and excellent restaurants can be found for almsot bargain prices in Paris. And transport, as you state is just not a problem thanks to the excellent metro and RER.

celbrian
Oct 11, 01, 4:46 am
Merci pour le trip report.

Paris est une ville chère mais beaucoup moins que les USA!

Amitiés/ jason

Carioca Canuck
Oct 11, 01, 7:42 am
Empress...

Thanks very much for your comments. I'm a very happy camper !!!

Austman...

I found Air France and the FP Customer service to be...for lack of better words...fantastic...I'm referring to AF in the air BTW.

As for the "relative costs" we stayed in a 3 star hotel in St. Germain that posted a rate of 850 FF per night ($ 120 US or $ 180 CDN) and well it was not a bad place at all, a comparable hotel here in Calgary is $ 100 CDN and in Rio it's $ 60 CDN.

As for food...a small pita bread wrap with the ingredients of your choice and a can of coke from any of the limitless sidewalk sandwich shops was usually around 70-80FF plus a 20% tax ($14 US or $21 CDN) something comparable here in Calgary is $8 CDN and in Rio...well...try about...$4 CDN. Nice restaurants were twice the price of Canada and about 3-4 times the price of Rio.

An espresso coffee was usually 20-40FF depending on the cafe...again twice to three times the price.

If I was to return to Paris several more times and explore the city like I have with Rio as an example, I would probably be able to agree with you about costs as this is what happened to me in Rio once I became more knowledeable.

The first trip some 3 years ago I stayed in a 4 star hotel on the beach to figure out the lay of the land. I spend $ 2,500 US in one week. Now that I've bought a small and cheap condo there, I can live for $ 800 US for a month if I choose. I was just shocked at the initial comparisons...I've also heard that London is outrageous...but have never been there.

I hope that sheds some light on my perspective. Thanks for your input.

celbrian...

Merci beaucoup pour votre statement.

A question for anybody...

I found that about every FOURTH car in Paris had body damage to the left front fender of the vehicle....the drivers side. Why is that ? The cars never had and dents anywhere else on them...just that corner...weird isn't it ???

celbrian
Oct 11, 01, 10:52 am
That's because the Parisian can't park!

canard
Oct 11, 01, 12:56 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Carioca Canuck:


An espresso coffee was usually 20-40FF depending on the cafe...again twice to three times the price.

</font>


Were you at the Flore or Cafe Beaubourg ? Most of the cafes where I hang out in Paris charge about 12-15F for an espresso, and even less if you have it at the comptoir !!

Also, the weakness of the euro vs the dollar during the last couple of years has made all of Europe significantly cheaper for tourists. When he was living in the US, my Parisian ex-boyfriend found everything here much more expensive than in Paris. I guess things are changing now, though.

Thanks for your great report. I'm always happy to see other AF enthusiasts on FT (it seems like there are so many AF haters out there). http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif I too think their economy product is far superior to other transatlantic options. (Especially on the A340).

JohnnyP
Oct 11, 01, 1:08 pm
Yes, Air France is a great airline once you're airborne! I heartily agree. Even though I'm a *A loyalist, I almost invariably book AF on inter-continental flights in Europe (that, or FinnAir). Definitely a step above Lufthansa in most arenas... I have always wished that AF was a *A carrier, not Lufthansa. &lt;sigh&gt; But, c'est la vie!

------------------
"What do you mean you didn't get miles for that?!"

JOUY31
Oct 11, 01, 4:02 pm
Thank you for a great trip report. I am very glad you enjoyed your AF flight. Just one small detail which is disquieting in your description of the meal service : has AF stopped serving French Champagne in long-distance Tempo (usually the Nicolas Feuillate which they also serve in intra-European Business or full-fare Tempo Challenge) or is it still available free of charge ?

Steve M
Oct 11, 01, 5:03 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Frog:
One comment to Arnur's response.
And if an illegal immigrant is taken without the adequate visa, it's up to the company who carried the person to Europe to send it back to its own cost...</font>

I think the point that Arnur was trying to make is that it may not be possible for the authorities to figure out what flight the person was on. If they destroy and discard their passport and refuse to identify themselves, the authorities don't know what country they came from or on what flight, so there's nowhere to send them back to.

Carioca Canuck
Oct 11, 01, 7:35 pm
celbrian...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Was it those poles that they keep running into...the ones in the sidewalks that appear to be designed to prevent people from parking in certain places ?

canard...

Neither cafe I'm afraid. We did go to the Cafe du Paix across from the Opera...I remember it as being the most expensive, but it was a nice place with a great view of the square. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif I'd have to check some of the receipts for the names of the others. Some places we outright avoided once we read the menu boards outside each entrance.

JohnnyP...

It Star Alliance carrier Varig was cheaper by about $500 US per ticket I would have gone with them and accrued the miles to my Aeroplan account and that of my wife. I too am a *A loyalist. As it is they were not cheaper....but after this AF experience however, I do not regret my decision.

JOUY31...

Yes !!! the champagne is still available. I forgot about it because it was not listed on the menus that I kept from the trip as the other wines..etc, were. In fact the woman next to us had 3 bottles....I was already into the red wine and decided not to change...having already broken one of my cardinal rules about flying...no alcohol inflight.

SteveM...

Bogus refugee claimants were trying to do this in Canada by flushing documents down the toilet of the inbound aircraft prior to landing. I understand now why they did this to us at CDG....I just wish it had been better organized I guess.

Thanks again to everybody for there comments. I just love Flyertalk !!!



[This message has been edited by Carioca Canuck (edited 10-11-2001).]

makin'miles
Oct 14, 01, 2:39 am
Congratulations on your marriage Carioca Canuck - all the best.

Its true if you get to know Paris a little better, it becomes far more inexpensive. I prefer to stay in the seventh arrodissement, near the Rue Motte-Piquet, between the Champ-de-Mars and l'Ecole Militaire. There's a wonderful creperie on rue Cler - they LA Times and Washington Post have even written articles on it, and the crepes cost only about a dollar. All in all, its a great neighbourhood, so close to everything.

Did you get a chance to check out the Musee d'Orsay or the Musee Marmottan Claude Monet? I much prefer them to the Louvre?

The metro/RER is the way to go in Paris - its fast, inexpensive, and goes everywhere. If only Beijing had the same http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif. Maybe by 2008...

Carioca Canuck
Oct 16, 01, 9:21 pm
makin'miles.....

She wanted to go to the Musee d'Orsay, among others, but after 4 days of this, I negotiated a break from museums and art galleries (I was museumed out by then) so we never made it. The place that I really liked was Rodin's museum...his actual residence apparently...nicely preserved with a lot of his art on display.

The museums and galleries were a bargain all around as far as admission was concerned. I was surprised.

makin'miles
Oct 18, 01, 7:06 am
For sure. The Rodin is really quite something. Even though I'm not really big on Rodin, I could spend a few hours just relaxing in the gardens - they're great.



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