Trip Reports - A Chinese Restaurant in Xiamen




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UAL Traveler
Apr 1, 01, 2:16 pm
First the preamble. About a month and a half ago, there was a lengthy thread in The Buzz lovingly titled Disgusting Airline Passenger Manners (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/004117.html). In doing justice to its name, that thread diverged several times, at one point venturing into a brief discussion of Chinese food. I made a comment about the cuisine, and was challenged by essxjay to expand my comments. I did promise in the thread that I would post my comments. Though I was thinking about posting in General Travel Talk, since it really isn't a trip report and has nothing to do with FF programs, I decided to put it here due to its length and that it does involve a trip. Therefore, for the displeasure of all, here goes.

-----------------

I will describe some aspects of a common and typical dinner in a small Chinese coastal city: Xiamen. By way of brief preamble, my business activities involve frequent travel to Xiamen, directly from HKG, or from BKK, usually via HKG. My business partner and I design and manufacture a number of name-brand small- and personal-care appliances in several facilities in East and Southeast Asia, one of them being in the Port of Xiamen. The factory is sited there in part based on the availability of a free-trade zone, and proximity to the container carriers that we continuously load with product. As such, the neighborhood is quite industrial, but has a dearth of restaurants. At last count (other than the random hawker carts, and I certainly don’t count our own cafeteria) zero. So, we always go out and investigate new restaurants. My partner, who is Chinese, has some favorites, which he is not embarrassed to share with me.

Xiamen is an island in a coastal harbor, geographically similar to Hong Kong, with bridges connecting it to the mainland. Seafood is very prevalent, with a number of great restaurants frequented by both locals and westerners. Perhaps the most popular area for seafood is on the small island of Gulangyu, just a 5-minute ferry ride from Xiamen. There, they have at least 100 small shop-house type restaurants, with fresh seafood cooked to order. Of course, there are a few upscale western hotels, such as the Marco Polo, that offer cuisine that is passable.

So, before I launch into a description of more earthy establishments and practices, I just wanted to point out that Xiamen has many fine venues that visitors from the West would consider quite civilized.

For better or worse, I am often considered a local (despite my western heritage, appearance and demeanor) in many Asian countries. To solidify (actually test) that notion some time ago, my perverse business partner decided to take me (and about a half dozen of our senior staff) to a favorite area of his for dinner, on the eastern side of Xiamen Island. I will never forget that experience, though it has now been repeated numerous times, and is something that I consider quite normal now. Anyway, our driver let us off at the edge of a muddy (parking?) lot bordered along one side by what looked like the edge of a maze of small shanty-like shophouse restaurants. The entire complex was called Da Pai Down (as translated for me). Immediately, 8 or 9 of us were ‘attacked’ by a screaming crowd of middle-aged women. My immediate reaction was to duck and cover, but I noticed my partner was laughing, so I stood back up, and followed him as he fought his way through the pack. It turned out that they were trying to convince him to come and eat at their ‘restaurant.’ Well, ‘OK’ I thought, ‘he knows what he’s doing.’ We zigzagged our way through the rutted, Byzantine alleyways for several minutes, the crowd of shopkeepers thinning as it became apparent that we had a destination in mind.

Finally, my partner proclaimed with a broad smile that we had arrived at ‘his’ restaurant. Like the story goes, there are two places that I don’t eat: those called ‘Eats’ and those named ‘Mom’s.’ This one was called ‘Moo Tse.’ Only sometime later did I learn that it means ‘Mother and Son.’

I asked what kind of seafood they served, and I was told Fujian (sometimes called Min). I figured, no problem: light taste, scented wine and sweet/sour sauces. And, of course, Fujian cuisine is quite common in Xiamen (Fujian province).

Thus far, all the indications were nominal: two rows of plastic containers, brimming with all sorts of live crustaceans and other small sea creatures. On an iced table, lay a dozen varieties of fish, and what I took to be a several distant, now deceased relatives of that which was swimming in the containers below. Other than an occasional plop and slight splashing sound in the background, that I could not place, nothing was amiss. Feeling relaxed, I began to size up the premises. I saw an area behind the display setup that was used for food preparation, but a ‘kitchen’ per se was not visible to my untrained eye. As there were no tables set up at this, or any of the neighboring restaurants, I asked where we eat. My partner said ‘upstairs.’ Up to that point, other than registering the basic shophouse configuration so common in Asia, I never thought about an ‘upstairs’ place. But, there it was, a narrow ladder-like set of stairs angled about 15 degrees from the vertical. Before venturing up however, I felt that it was a convenient time to use the facilities, which I inquired about. All conversation stopped at that point, and it seemed like all eyes were on me. It was as if I’d asked to see the local health inspector. One of our staff had a conversation in rapid Chinese with the owner, who looked perplexed. Given that I apparently was the only westerner she’d seen in quite some time, she felt it her duty to accommodate my strange desire. So, just to the right of, and beneath the staircase, I was shown a small room with a one-inch hole in the center of a tile floor, and a hose. As the owner, and one of my staff who stayed behind, watched me with great expectations, I merely asked ‘so, where is the restroom?’ They smiled and pointed to the tiny cubicle (sans door). Quickly weighing a number of options, alternatives, and scenarios (looking at the tiny hole in the floor) I figured what the hell, and went for it.

I found out why one of my staff waited for me outside the ‘restroom’. He was there to escort me upstairs, and decided that he could help break my fall if the stairs collapsed when I attempted to climb up to the second floor. Fortunately I’m not all that large (at least by western standards), and made it up OK. Well, it was clear that the second floor was nothing but a bunch of round tables – warped, cutout plywood on top of sawhorses, set on the corrugated (I’ll call it tin) roof that covered the display and cooking area below. The walls were sheets tacked to some rotted wooden studs, and the ‘roof’ was more of the same metal we were standing on. There were sizeable gaps all around. Classic Asian Rustic. Fine with me, except it was impossible for me to find a comfortable position of the chair by the table, since the corrugations quantized the possible chair-leg positions. Whatever, I was hungry. By the time I got upstairs, beer and tea had been ordered, along with the appetizer spread, which consisted of chopped chicken parts, a sliced jicama-like vegetable, and spiced peas-in-the-pod.

I was bemused to watch my people eat their appetizers. With complete aplomb, they would take the chicken, and after several chews, spit the bones towards the floor-‘wall’ juncture, at which point, about 1 in 5 would disappear through a joint in the floor. Well, first mystery solved. Now I knew where those plops were coming from that I heard when I was downstairs, 10 minutes earlier. My partner explained that everyone was on their best behavior with me, in that they normally would eat the chicken bones, but since that was not my custom they would politely spit them out. Apparently it was to show me that they were getting paid enough to eat well, and did not have to behave like peasants. (If anyone feels compelled to comment on how we work pay scales in China, please save that for another thread.)

As the final precursor to the main feast, some sashimi on a block of carved ice was laid out. (I was later told that only a western eye would believe that a block of ice that was accidentally run over by a cart in the alley by the side of the kitchen was ‘carved.’) A couple of the guys were passing a toothpaste tube of green paste between them, and naturally I asked what was up. They said that it was some sort of Japanese wasabi (mustard/horseradish mix). Defending my spicy-food-eating reputation, I asked for a squirt. Now, I have to say in all honesty that I’ve bested Thais in Bangkok, and a Lao ringer once on the banks of the Mekong in impromptu contests in the past. So, I had not the slightest hesitation in mainlining a teaspoon-full, right down my gullet. Problem was, it never made it past my tongue. Evil is too mild a prelude to a description of the wicked matter that began to short-circuit my biological throat controls. In what must have been microseconds, my throat closed off, and I began to think that suffocation really was the big deal that it had been made out to be. After about 10 minutes (which in reality was less than 2 seconds), I was able to begin wheezing. Devoid of embarrassment, I thrust my arms forward, capped by two balled-up fists, and hacked out the pea-sized wasabi remnants onto the table in front of me. Realizing that such behavior was totally expected and appropriate, I barely noticed it when one of my Chinese colleagues nonchalantly inquired, ‘you like?’

OK, a few minutes pass, my heart finally slows to under 120 beats/min, and the first main course is finally on the way: prawn. When the dish got closer, I knew it for what it was: fresh. Real fresh. Up to that point, I had only had the pleasure of such cuisine in Seoul, years before. Unlike my Korean hosts of years past, I declared an amnesty on the spot in no uncertain terms. I slowly and clearly stated (pausing for an accurate Chinese translation) that no one should feel compelled to use chopsticks to chase any food that crawls off their plates. ‘Nuff said, except to note that there was no waste (or escapees).

Chinese like shrimp so, more shrimp followed. This time: drunken shrimp. Now, this dish is quite common in US Chinese restaurants, except that the imbibing, if it ever really occurs, does so behind closed kitchen doors. In China, as is traditional in the other ‘Chinas’ (Hong Kong and Taiwan), the better restaurants wheel out a stand with a large broad bowl filled with a wine and water mixture. Then, which a slight flourish, they dump about 30 or so large shrimp into the drink where (what else), they get drunk. It is not a pretty sight. Some make a mad scramble for the rim, and try to dive out, whereby the chef/busboy whacks the poor creature back into their liquid chamber of… Finally, and thankfully, some sort of besotted bliss kicks in, and the shrimp barely resist their final swim in the pot of boiling broth. After a couple of minutes, they were… done.

The next course was a 6-inch long (counting what I think was the head) parboiled sea creature that looked like a cross between a seahorse and a sea cucumber, with about two sets of ten small, delicately fringed flippers fore and aft of its belly. Appeared to be pregnant at that. Even my Chinese staff hadn’t ever seen such a critter before, as there was much debate as to what it might be. My jovial MD (managing director), who thinks it to be impolite to hesitate more than 15 seconds about anything presented to him as ‘food,’ took one poke at the belly with his chopstick. Yep, pregnant. Don’t get me wrong, this was not a scene out of Alien, or anything like that. It was just that the purplish mass that pulsed out had a less than pleasant aroma. However, true believers know that like durian and Limburger, the nose can be fooled. Fortunately, there were true believers around the table, and I didn’t have to endure the stench.

Lets see, what other seafood did we have… hard to say, because by that time I was on my Nth bottle of local Xiamen beer, and about all I can remember was having a large hard-shell crab set before me, and being told that to be polite I was expected to consume all the soft parts. I remember saying something like ‘are you sure?’ To which there was the obvious response. So, I dug in, straight down, right in the middle. Any junior high bio student could guess what was there: a large lung (maybe two, or three, or more, but I wasn’t counting). I figured that since I was the chief breadwinner for the group, no one wanted to see me die, so I dug in and took a bite. And spit it out. Again, a polite (and what might have been a lifesaving) move. Thank God for autonomic responses. Horrified, my chief engineer said “you’re not supposed to eat that.” I said “but you said I should eat everything.” He said “but everyone knows you don’t eat the lung,” and he looked worried, but tried not to show it, which made me more worried. When a Chinese looks worried (and tries not to show it), it’s really not good. The wasabi was starting to taste good in my memory.

The table fell silent. Oh boy, I guess I don’t have to worry now about remembering to reconfirm my flights out on China Southern. Then the engineer asked “do you feel cold?” “What do mean, ‘cold’,” I asked. He stared into my eyes, turned and spit, and said "nevermind, you probably be OK.” I declared aloud that the meal was over for me.

Finally leaving the restaurant I realized that I never found out the meaning of the name… turned out it was ‘Mother and Son.’ As we slogged back to the dirt lot in search of our transportation, I turned to see a worker washing the dirt from several armloads of vegetables he had thrown onto the floor in a little cubicle with a tile floor and a one-inch hole in the center.

[This message has been edited by UAL Traveler (edited 04-02-2001).]


LarryU
Apr 1, 01, 4:39 pm
Absolutely fascinating trip report/restaurant review. Do they have a Zagat rating, perchance? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Portions of your tale remind of my recent visit to BKK, where I observed local chefs impale live fish and then grill them on little stoves mounted in the center of their diminutive boats. Or my visits to Taipei, where the proprietors would grab chickens by the neck, slit their throats and toss them into a large plastic garbage can, not inches from our table. The loosely affixed lid cushioned and muted the thrashing sounds, somewhat. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

Perhaps we should start a new thread on disgusting restaurant manners, although it all truly is in the eye of the beholder. Though an American, I find McDonald's and its ilk rather disgusting. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

estnet
Apr 1, 01, 5:02 pm
Wow - and I thought I had had some interesting cultural experiences. Sure hope out paths cross one of these days would love to hear more about your culinary adventures.


bp888
Apr 1, 01, 5:20 pm
And to what purpose does the so-called trip report purport to ascribe?

greg99
Apr 1, 01, 7:03 pm
And to what purpose does the so-called trip report purport to ascribe?

bp888 -

Since it's a d*%n good story about a place that most of us have never been and never will be, who cares?

I've had my share of Asian food "challenges" but this takes the cake.

"Do you feel cold. . ."

Still chuckling.

Great story.

Greg

bp888
Apr 1, 01, 7:16 pm
Originally posted by greg99:
...
Since it's a d*%n good story about a place that most of us have never been and never will be, who cares?

I've had my share of Asian food "challenges" but this takes the cake.


Except that I find the account to be rather crude and shockingly condescending to his "people" (I think he meant his employees) and quite frankly reads more like fiction than truth.

ETOPS
Apr 1, 01, 7:49 pm
Whoa, am I thoroughly disappointed to be reading this story in the context that it is presented!

I thought travel makes us wiser and more sensitive (if it can't make us appreciative) that differences exist between the way peoples of the world go about their daily lives.

Did you know that cheese is as repugnant to many Asians as it is something that "makes great" with whatever it is you're eating the curdled milk?

Did you know that eating the 'Other White Meat' (pork) is believed by many Middle Easterners to be the cause of homosexuality in Western countries? (I make no value-judgement about homosexuality).

Did you know that many Scandinavians delight in the partaking of lutfisk, which is effectively putrid, rotten fish?

Did you know that the Japanese eat fugu, or pufferfish, which, if not prepared carefully, can rapidly cause seizures and death?

One man's meat is truly another's poison.

I just wish we would be a little less value-judgemental as all of the references to "disgusting," "embarrassed," "sea-creatures," the movie "Aliens," clearly suggest this is a biased account.

With no offense intended to your person, UAL Traveler, your post makes you sound a lot less open-minded and therefore suited for world travel than you probably really are. It makes me think that for all of your traveling you have missed out on a lot, and still have a lot to learn! I wonder how your Chinese hosts would feel if they knew you talk about them in the way you have.

[This message has been edited by ETOPS (edited 04-01-2001).]

UAL Traveler
Apr 1, 01, 8:35 pm
bp888 observes Except that I find the account to be rather crude and shockingly condescending to his "people" (I think he meant his employees) and quite frankly reads more like fiction than truth. Well, in the work-a-day world in Asia, you will find that the comments and observations that I made were quite toned down in comparison to those which are routinely made by local and visiting Chinese about the sort of establishment that I described. I do understand that we Americans are highly PC, and if I have offended any sensibilities, I apologize. However, I am confident that my decription would not be viewed as anything but 'neutral' (the word often used by mainland Chinese to decribe situations about which they have no impassioned feelings) by my business colleagues.

As far as the veracity of my post, about all I can say is that the sort of restaurant and meal experience I described is about as common in coastal China as an outing to McDonalds is in America, and was rendered without embellishment.

tigertiger
Apr 1, 01, 8:43 pm
I thought it was a wonderful account of one person's adventure-in-dining.

What's wrong with that? Most of us are world travellers here, yet we all have a perspective from which we look at the world: a reference point to what is 'normal' (not a value judgement, just to mean usual, expected, familiar), and what is other-alien-foreign to us. I mean, that's the whole point, isn't it? For myself if I could travel the world and find no place that seemed exotic, unfamiliar, strange, why would I bother going there?

Is it just Americans, who are so pc, so afraid to offend anyone that we're not allowd to have opinions and preferences any more? In the 10 minutes I've been catching up here today, I've seen 2 people get jumped on for stating perfectly valid opinions/perspectives such as 'the food was strange' or 'I don't like your kids'.

And it goes both ways, it's just human nature. Who else here has been surrounded by a swarm of kids staing open-mouthed in astonishment at your blonde hair? Or like my partner, have been in a Japanese sauna with tatoos and have everyone move away from you?(just like in Alice's restaurant). Or been called a crazy farang in Thailand. They're not being cute, they mean it, you are crazy to them.

The next time you're bending over backwards trying to pretend nothing is odd or different or unusual about where you are or who you with or what they are eating, remember that you are weird to them, and they are probably making no pretense about it.

/soapbox-rant

tigertiger
Apr 1, 01, 8:56 pm
Oop, almost forgot my initial reaction the the original post which was, 'You go, UAL Traveler!" I am such a not-a-high-challenge-food eater, I really can't help but admire you. (ex I can only eat shrimp until they start looking like bugs to me.)

And I certainly believe you about the venue, it sounds much like a few places I've been to in Burma (only, because I was a girl, I was proudly led to the hole in the floor with a door that closed, and it actually had toilet paper, where a big fat spider had taken up residence since the last foreigner came through).

UAL Traveler
Apr 1, 01, 10:10 pm
tigertiger... Burma and food ... sounds like we have a lot in common http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I also have fond memories using such rest facilities, especially on the road to Bago, except I'd guess that you have been treated to more upscale venues, since you used words like 'floor' and phrases like 'door that closed... and please explain 'toilet paper' http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

We'll have to trade war stories sometime. Honestly though, some of the worst meals I've had on this planet have been in Burma.

UAL Traveler
Apr 1, 01, 10:14 pm
estnet says Wow - and I thought I had had some interesting cultural experiences. Sure hope out paths cross one of these days would love to hear more about your culinary adventures. I look forward to that, but I'm sure that I will be the student as well http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

(UBB Edit)

[This message has been edited by UAL Traveler (edited 04-01-2001).]

tigertiger
Apr 2, 01, 12:09 am
UAL Traveler, well, I did say I got the deluxe facilities in honor of my gender... my partner got led around back, I didn't want to ask...

Oh, Burma... men in skirts and the world's worst food. A chicken that obviously met it's end through starvation swimming in an inch of grease... yum. Mostly I stick to white rice and power bars out in the country, Indian food's not too bad in the cities (only ½" of grease http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif)

dgolds
Apr 2, 01, 12:23 am
The only thing I found offensive in this report was the misspelling of essxjay (as "essexjay") at the beginning. The rest was fascinating, a look into a world I'll probably never have a chance to experience. Thanks, UAL Traveler.

If someone found this trip report racist or condescending, please enlighten me as to why.

For what it's worth, I would much rather be one of UAL Traveler's people than a resource, which is how I (and other corporate drones) are often referred to by American managers. The word is frequently used both to our faces and behind our backs and never fails to send shivers up my spine. (Rich G., help us...)

[This message has been edited by dgolds (edited 04-01-2001).]

LarryU
Apr 2, 01, 12:59 am
I would imagine that trip reports such as this serve the same purpose as reading a good book, watching an interesting film or even admiring a splendid view. It enables the reader to vicariously enjoy the, uh, flavor, of the event without necessarily having to live through it. If stripped of the author's opinions and reactions, there would be no point reading it at all.

And in the honor of the ubiquitous and all-pervasive PC spirit that often seems to inflict this culture, might I add that I have been equally "disgusted" with the behaviors or those with whom I allegedly share a culture and heritage. I remember once fishing in Yellowstone where I was privileged to witness a gaggle of young men try to show off to one another by biting the heads off of live trout. I don't think they ate any of them.


[This message has been edited by LarryU (edited 04-02-2001).]

opus17
Apr 2, 01, 1:00 am
Originally posted by dgolds:

For what it's worth, I would much rather be one of UAL Traveler's people than a resource, which is how I (and other corporate drones) are often referred to by American managers

dgolds -- I agree 100% -- since I recently crossed over into management, I have refused to use that word.

UAL Traveler -- great report. And kudos for not being one of those Americans who spend all their time overseas looking for McDonalds, KFC, Hard Rock Cafe, etc.


[This message has been edited by opus17 (edited 04-02-2001).]

LarryU
Apr 2, 01, 1:01 am
Dupe

[This message has been edited by LarryU (edited 04-02-2001).]

Vulcan
Apr 2, 01, 9:52 am
I found this report fascianting and would like to hear similar stories from other travelers in "out of the way" places. How about places like Mongolia etc.This an experience I will probably never have, but can get a pretty good idea thru the reports of people like UAL Traveller.

SRQ Guy
Apr 2, 01, 10:18 am
Originally posted by bp888:
Except that I find the account to be rather crude and shockingly condescending to his "people" (I think he meant his employees)...

Should he have called them something besides "people"?!?!?! I frequently call a group of my friends and/or family "my people", there is nothign condescending about that. It clarifies that it was the folks in his group as opposed to other "people" they may have run into in the restaurant, or on the street.


...and quite frankly reads more like fiction than truth.



Most really good stories do. If it read like normal boring every-day real life it wouldn't be all that exciting, chief.

edited for spelling


[This message has been edited by SRQ Guy (edited 04-02-2001).]

UAL Traveler
Apr 2, 01, 11:46 am
dgolds states The only thing I found offensive in this report was the misspelling of essxjay (as "essexjay") at the beginning. How 'embarassing' http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif Thanks for pointing it out. Glad you enjoyed the rest http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

avek00
Apr 2, 01, 5:11 pm
OK, I have to admit that when I first arrived in Beijing, the first place I went to after arrving at my hotel was McDonald's. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

SpuddBrother
Apr 2, 01, 8:46 pm
Gosh, I sure hope the negative comments of a few PEOPLE don't deter others from sharing their stories -- in their own words.

Pseudo intellectual criticisms and political correctness nitpicking spoil the fun for everyone. It is impossible to say ANYTHING without offending SOMEONE. Thankfully most people keep their mouth shut, otherwise society would grind to a halt.

Great post UAL Traveler! I really enjoyed it.

siliconengineer
Apr 3, 01, 4:07 pm
UAL Traveler,
As a Chinese-American, I enjoyed the post, and did not personally find it offensive since I think you take as much as you give in your narrative.

About the crab:
===
a large hard-shell crab set before me, and being told that to be polite I was expected to consume all the soft parts. I remember saying something like ‘are you sure?’ To which there was the obvious response. So, I dug in, straight down, right in the middle. Any junior high bio student could guess what was there: a large lung (maybe two, or three, or more, but I wasn’t counting). I figured that since I was the chief breadwinner for the group, no one wanted to see me die, so I dug in and took a bite. And spit it out. Again, a polite (and what might have been a lifesaving) move. Thank God for autonomic responses. Horrified, my chief engineer said “you’re not supposed to eat that.” I said “but you said I should eat everything.” He said “but everyone knows you don’t eat the lung,” and he looked worried, but tried not to show it, which made me more worried.
===
Really don't think crabs have lungs, and probably not gills either, but some other kind of respiratory organ(s)?

More to the point, the soft part of crabs (just under the shell) is enjoyed by Chinese everywhere, and I've eaten all of it, from Dungeness crabs in San Francisco to local crabs in Asia. The only concern I've had is about cholesterol. I suspect your colleagues must have been pulling your leg after you spit it out, or unless the local waters where the crab was caught is heavily polluted?

I also found your description of the drunken shrimp dish interesting. I have not seen that on US Chinese restaurants' menus, but have had it many times in Singapore where beer is poured into the bowl of shrimp instead of shrimp into the beer as you experienced.

UAL Traveler
Apr 3, 01, 5:18 pm
siliconengineer, thank you for your comments, and glad you weren't offended by my narrative.

Regarding 'lungs,' that was the literal english word used to describe the tissue I had began to consume. I guess I implicitly assumed that was the closest translation for the organ which transfers oxygen to the crab's blood, and hence repeated it in my report. I clearly recall (interestingly a number of events from that one dinner, for some reason - perhaps the wasabi - have been tattooed into my brain) that the organ, whatever it was, was definitely located front and center. It appeared to be segmented somewhat like a tangerine, with each portion comprised of a myriad fine, convoluted, almost sheetlike protrusions. And, it most assuredly had a gawdawful chemically rancid taste. No one else at the table sampled it. You may be correct in that this particular species came from local waters tainted by some Xiamen effluent.

estnet
Apr 4, 01, 12:32 am
okay.. I've always wondered and now can't resist - is drunken shrimp just a "gimmick" or do they actually taste different?
The brief immersion can't make a difference but perhaps flavor is imparted during the cooking (eg mussels cooked in wine, etc - but then I always include the liquid with the mussel - never noticed that the "bare" mussel tasted different)

LIH Prem
Apr 4, 01, 4:22 am
I thoroughly enjoyed your dining report, UAL Traveler. Thank you for posting it.

I'm reminded of the time, several years ago, that the folks from the local sales office in BKK took us (three visiting engineers from Silicon Valley) to dinner to a rather nice local seafood place. They ordered and served us several strange dishes, including a very strange looking huge spider-looking fish.

It was great to be treated like a local and partake of experiences I would never have had on my own.

-David

UAL Traveler
Apr 4, 01, 7:21 pm
estnet asks okay.. I've always wondered and now can't resist - is drunken shrimp just a "gimmick" or do they actually taste different? Not that I can taste, but I am not a connoisseur. It seems to be mainly for show.

However, in the US I've had the dish served with a mild wine-type sauce, similar to what you describe re:mussels. In China, the shrimp are served directly from the pot, nothing added.

UAL Traveler
Apr 4, 01, 7:47 pm
LIH Prem, you're welcome; and thanks to all those who have supported my attempt at an honest portrayal of a very common event.

LIH Prem, you say It was great to be treated like a local and partake of experiences I would never have had on my own. Exactly http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif In contrast, I've seen so many travelers who visit countries, often repeatedly, spending their time at gorgeous resorts, eating at the finest establishments, 'roughing it' now and then at 'local' restaurants where the waiters speak English, maybe even learning a local phrase or two, and then returning home having absorbed virtually nothing of the culture. Mind you, this is not a criticism, but merely a personal observation, for I realize that for many, the objective indeed is a relaxing, unchallenging vacation in a new locale. And for others, the opportunity to see the country in a non-tourist mode is simply not available.

UAL Traveler
Apr 4, 01, 9:04 pm
(dupe)

[This message has been edited by UAL Traveler (edited 04-04-2001).]

onedog
Apr 5, 01, 11:15 pm
WOW http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

Great trip/meal report!

violist
Apr 6, 01, 10:07 am
They're gills, and there's nothing inherently poisonous about them, unless the crabs were fattened in a cesspool (possible).
-
I would never have chosen such a restaurant, but I'm pretty sure I'd have enjoyed the meal if someone else had taken me there.

fallinasleep
Apr 9, 01, 12:29 am
The question I have for UAL Traveler is did he actually do a #2 (or "big" as they say in the vernacular of southern China) in the one inch hole sans door. If so, I'm impressed! I would have personally waited until I got back to my hotel room or the nearest 2* or higher hotel. But...

In any case, I often struggle with any writing that either hypes up a destination/activity that is mostly not that exciting or overdramatizes/sensationalizes an experience that really isn't such a big deal. This is especially true of writing about traveling experiences in developing countries. However, this type of travel writing/commentary is often entertaining to a First World audience that is unable to understand the story in its proper context simply because it is so foreign to our own sensabilities and routine. Without the proper background within the article and/or the proper perspective from the author, it would read more like fiction to an individual of that locale, but the First World reader may perceive it as reality. At last count, fewer than 15% of this world's population lives in the First World.

As an American who has traveled extensively throughout his own country and all G7 countries as well as East Asia, the Middle East, South America and Eastern Europe, I found UAL Traveler's narrative quite entertaining about a particular experience at one dining establishment in one city in China (at last count, Xiamen city had about 1.25 million people in a country of around 1.3 billion).

As a person of Chinese descent who has traveled extensively throughout all four corners of China, I found parts of his narrative to be sensationalized and, to some extent, offensive.

It is not an issue of being PC or unPC, but I think it is very true that "sometimes you just don't understand what you are seeing". But that doesn't stop people, myself included, from making comments with their "untrained eye" as UAL Traveler put it. In the absence of information, it is very easy to make the wrong conclusions and form the wrong impressions.

This post is not meant as a flame toward UAL Traveler -- in the end, it is just my opinion anyway -- and I hope it is not taken as such. It is simply a general comment/pet peeve on what I find troubling about travel writing and political reporting/journalism. These writing genres are often times mistaken as nonfiction in book stores when I think it should really be placed in the science fiction section.

RichG
Apr 9, 01, 11:31 pm
How else can someone write about their experiences other than from their own perspective?

Culture is not much more than a complex set of common experiences. I would bet there are books about travel in America or Europe, by Chinese, for sale in Chinese bookstores, that we would find totally unrecognizable, even in translation.

Different perspectives are neither right nor wrong. They are -just- -different-.

SanDiego1K
Apr 10, 01, 12:13 am
I agree with RichG. We have foreign young people in our home all the time, from all corners of the world. I have actively sought out reading on different nationalities' perception of American customs and habits so that I can understand what they might find perplexing in our odd culture (southern California!). I tell our young people that I am never offended by any opinion they hold on our behavior; they can say anything they like to me. We have some fascinating conversations as a result.

I thoroughly enjoyed UAL Traveler's account of his meal, just as I enjoy the moments of candor I get from our young people about their observations of life in our home.

fallinasleep
Apr 10, 01, 9:12 am
Originally posted by RichG:
How else can someone write about their experiences other than from their own perspective?

<snip>

Different perspectives are neither right nor wrong. They are -just- -different-.

I would argue that different perspectives can indeed be wrong if it is based on bad/limited information. So, if during a one-day trip, I notice a fat local man surrounded by empty beer bottles and screaming that all ____-colored people were thieves, would it be acceptable for me to say that all people from ______ city/country are drunk and racists and have high cholestrol rates? Of course not.

I have no problem with someone making the type of comment that I just wrote (freedom of speech and all), but I hope that the reader can tell the difference between fact and fiction.

FYI:
Most people will choke to death if they eat chicken bones and I just don't think bones are a common dietary supplement in even the most impoverished countries. Sure, we often hear "reports" of dire circumstances that cause people to make tough decisions (like the stories of cannibalism in North Korea), but Xiamen, where I've never been, happens to be, like Shenzhen near Hong Kong, a Special Economic Zone in China (i.e., living standards are probably 5-10 times higher than the rest of the country). Not even on Survivor do we see the contestants eating wild pig, rat, or chicken bones http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif I think either UAL Traveler's host/partner was pulling his leg, so to speak, or those bones aren't really bones.

If it helps, I even asked an elderly Chinese (who was once a countryside peasant) now living in the States if during the worst period of the armed conflicts in the 1940s if desperate Chinese citizens would eat animal/fish bones, and he just looked at me as though I was crazy. Some may have, but it is not common.

Anyway, here's a photo (http://photos.yahoo.com/silkroadtrip) I took recently. I have added a few possible captions for your benefit. You can help me choose which is the "right" one.

WARNING: some people may find this photo grotesque and you might find some of the captions offensive

Possible Captions:
a) If you want steak, go to Argentina
b) Just an hour before I can go home
c) Friends don't let friends eat pork
d) You want fresh? You got fresh!
e) Where did Mary's Little Lamb go?
f) A little boney but I can offer you a special price
g) No bare feet, no bare skin, no flies
h) How much for this "room with a view"?
i) We have chicken in the morning
j) I have no idea what I'm looking at
k) A market scene in a part of the world that I don't really understand

[edited to fix UBB coding]


[This message has been edited by fallinasleep (edited 04-10-2001).]

kyklin
Apr 11, 01, 2:27 pm
I am a Chinese American and enjoyed the report. I am not offended by the description; heck, I too may be hesistant myself if I were in a situation like that as well.

As for the chicken bones, I have never heard anyone eating them. Perhaps, he meant gnawing on them or sucking its marrows?

Water Polo Ref
Apr 11, 01, 6:36 pm
As a Hong Kong born Chinese, I, too, thoroughly enjoyed the report. I am probably a bit too Americanized to enjoy some of the more esoteric foodstuffs available in China and elsewhere, but, I have eaten most everything that has been put in front on me.

As far as chicken bones are concerned, I agree that it is dangerous to eat and that the Chinese I grew up with (including my old village amah) would refuse to provide it as food even for my dogs.

HOWEVER, one "delicacy" (even available in Vancouver) are the cartilagenous parts of the wing (between the wing and wingtip and the wing and the small drumstick). Those parts are often served deep fried. Perhaps this is what was served?

opushomes
Feb 6, 09, 2:13 am
LarryU sent me this link and therefore with this post, I have resurrected this thread. Thank you violist: you write some incredible foody trip reports, however, sate should not be made from liver.;)

Yes, perhaps there was some cultural or managerial insensitivity exhibited here but this report is a fascinating narrative to me of what we who travel frequently occasionally encounter. Our Western culture is completely alien to vast portions of the world. Unfortunately, many do not step back and consider that what is considered disgusting both in food and habits are perfectly normal in other places. Some of our food is just as obnoxious to others as previously mentioned. The best part of these occasions is that we perhaps we take away an insight of what life is like outside our "civilized" countries. Chinese civilization is certainly older than that of the U.S. and Canada.

I, for one, have experienced a chicken bone devouring individual at more than one meal. His favorite part of the chicken was the bones and he ordered chicken for almost every lunch and dinner we shared including client visits. He happened to be my boss and most of the eating occurred in Pales Verde and Bellingham. Please search www.google.com or www.askjeeves.com to locate these two communities if you are unfamiliar with them.

Various cultures are fascinating including their toilet facilities. During 4.5 months traveling through much of Europe, I marveled and was somewhat perplexed at times by the variety of toilet flushing devices not to mention the wonderful Italian train station toilets awash with effluent pooling around the two porcelain feet stradling the hole somewhat larger than OP's description.



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