Hertz - A Camry is NOT an upgrade

As a President's Circle member I have had 3 experiences of late which baffle me. I reserve a class F car (Taurus, etc.) and they give me a Camry, claiming it is an upgrade from a Taurus. I have tried to tell them that in fact it is a downgrade---smaller car, less features, and from a 6 to a 4 cylinder engine, but they don't get it.

I am now refusing Camrys and any vehicle with more than 15K miles.

Has anyone had a similar experience?


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Regards,

Art from ISP

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Beckles:
A Camry is a YF ("Special" Full-Size), so you did get an upgrade from the mid-size you reserved and paid for.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum79/HTML/000327.html
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I like the Camry, actually I like all Toyotas. Last time I had a Taurus with 18,000 miles ... now I know why Ford is in trouble.

I think the Camry is actually a bit more spacious in the rear than the Taurus, or at least equivalent. The Taurus is more passenger-friendly, and that the Taurus has better braking. However, the Toyota engine switches gears seamlessly and is pretty quiet. I actually had to take the Camry as a downgrade from a Premium because the Grand Marquis had a busted Neverlost mount.

They wouldn't even let me apply a PC since it was a "FRDM" rate. They'll be hearing about that. Additionally, the Neverlost conked out on me yesterday between Springfield and Decatur.....

I think you are mistaking a Corolla for a Camry. Camry is in the same class as a Tauras and is quite nice.

At best I'd say the new Camry is the same size as a Taurus, and I think it may actually be bigger, it sure drives like it is (which may or may not be a good thing).

The Camry is a YF car, which is "special" full-size or some crap like that (similar designations on the Maxima and Intrepid also), but I didn't think going from F to YF was typically considered an upgrade ...

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I thought the same and posted so in another thread, but I got yelled at and called names.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I had the same experience so I asked at the Gold Counter. They said since the Camry is a more expensive car (cost to buy/ sticker price) it is considered an upgrade!

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As I mentioned before, we had a Premium ready @ORD but the Neverlost fitting was loose....they didn't have any other Premies, so offered a downgrade to a Camry instead. We were ok with it, but I thought, well we did them a favor, we should get something, since the Full rate would've been slightly lower.

So today at return, the manager tries to tell me

Her: "Well the Camry IS premuim you know....well above the Taurus so it's basically a premium, plus the rate is cheaper...full is $70/day!"

Me: "Well actually ma'am, the Camry is in YF class which is better than the Taurus but still a full, and with a different rate type, it would've been priced lower anyway. We did you guys a favor, and I think some compensation would be fair."

Her: "Well I can't do anything about that but what I can do is give you a $20 CSvc certificate."

Me: "Fine."

Her: "Ok so I'm taking off the $7 for Neverlost (Which was fair, but I wish they were like SAN and took off the whole week's charge for various malfunctions http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif) and the $20 certificate."

First of all, the Camry similarly equipped is not much more than the Taurus. It is definitely smaller, and I don't consider moving from a V-6 to a 4 cylinder an upgrade.

I now refuse Camrys whenever they are offered.

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Regards,

Art from ISP

Funny, I have been going through a similar situation at one particular location (because I have an ongoing dialog with the city manager I'm leaving the airport code out for now). The Gold Service Counter will tell me with a straight face that the F to YF is the PC upgrade. I then politely insist that I obtain the one class (not one subclass) upgrade, and explain that their manager has confimed that my interpretation is correct. I just had to do this on Wednesday, but today they got it right.

If the upgraded car is not available, they are supposed to downgrade your rate class and provide the F car at a C rate. I have even created a courtesy slip that this location could use and attach it to the contract to let the customer know what happened (e.g. upgrade not available, your rate has been decreased) so they would not have to go to the Gold Counter.

My contention is that if I can rent it online or via reservations, it is a car class. Since I am unable to rent a YF car, it is not a car class, rather a subclass of F. Sometimes I would actually prefer the YF car if it is one of the nice new Maximas that are floating about the system.

On a side note, how difficult is it for the Hertz reservation system to actually take care of this at the time of booking. Since the PC upgrade is guaranteed the reservation should reflect the F rate but reserve the G car. That way, they will be a decreased chance of human error at the location.

CWPFLY
*edited for typos

[This message has been edited by cwpfly (edited 07-07-2002).]

I had a similar incident in KC this past weekend. Upon arrival, I found they had me in a Camry. I have three relatives I was planning to visit over the weekend that all worked for GM. If I showed up in a Toyota, I would have been shot. Anyway, I politely ask for an "American" car. The agent asks if anything is wrong with the vehicle, as it was an upgrade from the Full that I had requested. I said no, just wanted "American". She offered me an Explorer for $20 more per day. I declined. She then offered me an Escape for $10 more per day. I declined. She finally got me in a Taurus and on my way.

I am 5 star Gold member. The Camry was a "free upgrade", but I had to pay to get any other upgrade???? I was actually quite happy with the Taurus.

As a side note...this week I am in MSP and Hertz gave me an Escape with an "Intermediate" reservation. Great job MSP Hertz!!! Bad MCI Hertz!!!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jimjamkc:
I politely ask for an "American" car. </font>

I believe the Camry is made in Lexington KY, doesn't that qualify it as American Made http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

By the way I drive 2002 Camry and much prefer it over anything the Big 3 produces.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by back seat:
By the way I drive 2002 Camry and much prefer it over anything the Big 3 produces.</font>
I think you are right. Toyotas a very reliable cars .. US cars are getting better, but they are still not as good (=quality + finish) as Toyota.

if you only take the number of cylinders into consideration, then sure V6 taurus to a 4 banger is a downgrade. but there's more to a car than the number of cylinders.

there was a thread about "upgrading" from a V6 taurus to a V8 grand marquis. now this is a sure downgrade in my opinion, coz grand marquis sucks period, it's like a boat.

a camry is definitely an upgrade in most people's eyes, it's better built, better ride quality, and more trunk space believe it or not.

All I wanted was to drive an Escape, and the lot had a couple of them. I unfortunately had no time to argue with the agent, else I would have tried. I mean, at $96 bucks per day I think I paid for an upgrade... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

I recently bought a new Taurus. A similarly equipped Camry is probably on average $1.5K more, depending on the deal you get. The Ford has more trim lines and more options, so a straight comparison is difficult, precisely as they intend. I also seriously considered an Avalon (which is basically a stretched Camry), which is another $3K or so more.

Having driven lots of Tauruses and Camrys (mostly from Hertz) over the years, the driver's position is definitely more comfortable in the Taurus. Check the shoulder, leg, and head room specs at any of the internet car comparison sites.

By the way, my Taurus came with no significant sample defects... and I'm very fussy. Just a pin-point size paint ding on the trunk lid that you really have to look for to find. Ford's fit and finish has really been first-rate for over 10 years now.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Art234:
As a President's Circle member I have had 3 experiences of late which baffle me. I reserve a class F car (Taurus, etc.) and they give me a Camry, claiming it is an upgrade from a Taurus. I have tried to tell them that in fact it is a downgrade---smaller car, less features, and from a 6 to a 4 cylinder engine, but they don't get it.
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Camry specs: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/toyota/camry/le4drsedan24l4cyl5m/specs.html?id=lin0018

Taurus specs: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/ford/taurus/lx4drsedan30l6cyl4a/specs.html?id=lin0018

Externally the Taurus is marginally bigger. Internal dimensions are very similar, with the Taurus having a small advantage in some measurements, and the Camry having a small advantage in others. The Camry's base engine is actually more powerful (horespower) but has less torque, even though it is only 4-cylinders.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gaucho100K:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I thought the same and posted so in another thread, but I got yelled at and called names.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif</font>

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Gaucho, buddy, I sure hope you're not referring to discussion (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum79/HTML/000327.html) where you were upgraded from the C (midsize) you reserved to a YF (premium fullsize) ...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gaucho100K:
All I wanted was to drive an Escape, and the lot had a couple of them. I unfortunately had no time to argue with the agent, else I would have tried. I mean, at $96 bucks per day I think I paid for an upgrade... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif</font>

This is what you paid for a car for a day????

that'a a lot of money, even for an Escape :-)

Just adding to this...when we were switching from Premium to Full, we asked for the car with the least mileage, Camry or Taurus.

"We have a Camry with 730 miles on it sir"
"Sweet!"

Upon arriving at the car, we find scuff marks across the dash, various stains, wrappers, etc. Upon closer examination, the odometer reads "7301". Oh well.

Interestingly, the Hertz return staff never blinked an eye at the 7300 miles we drove over the week. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Outside temperature on the Camry while driving through the Midwest... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif &lt;IMG SRC="http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif"&gt;



[This message has been edited by a330300 (edited 07-11-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Beckles:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Gaucho, buddy, I sure hope you're not referring to discussion (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum79/HTML/000327.html) where you were upgraded from the C (midsize) you reserved to a YF (premium fullsize) ...</font>

Yep.... thats exactly the rental... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DADISGARYK:
This is what you paid for a car for a day????

that'a a lot of money, even for an Escape :-)

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Yeah, it was a last minute rental I had to do for work. But, that's something of the past. I didnt know all the rules and not getting a decent car was actually my fault. I will be better prepared next time... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

BTW, I love Hertz, they are the best rental company out there, PERIOD.

Had the same situation this weekend at IAD. Booked in "Taurus" class and "upgraded" to a Camry. No power seats, sluggish response. Called customer service and voila.. CAMRY is a superior car even a 2 class upgrade! I can't believe it! My fat butt nearly slide straight down to the floor. No way possible to adjust the seat. Please Hertz, do me a favor, do not upgrade me to a Camry again!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by a330300:
Interestingly, the Hertz return staff never blinked an eye at the 7300 miles we drove over the week. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif</font>

i had something like this in houston a couple of weeks ago. my XJ8 had "135" miles on it. turns out that was the trip odometer. when i returned 22 hours later, i had 2400 miles on the car, on a rental with 200 free miles. fortunately, the return agent was willing to put in "200" as the return mileage, and let me go.

btw, even as a presidents circle member, they don't upgrade you when you reserve an XJ8. :-) they do, however, have the car on and the AC running--a very nice touch in houston.

but, back on topic, i reserved an F car at LGA this evening. arrived to find a Mitsubishi Diamante in my spot. i thought to myself "great, another F to YF upgrade". but on closer inspection, the diamante is considered YG!! i don't think so. i almost went in and asked for a taurus. the diamante is nicely equipped, tho. not as much fun as the maxima, but a lot better than a camry.

Does anyone have a list of car types/classes with the YF/F/YG etc abbreviations? I posted a list, but it has YCAR, FCAR, etc.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by a330300:
Does anyone have a list of car types/classes with the YF/F/YG etc abbreviations? I posted a list, but it has YCAR, FCAR, etc.</font>

I'm sure there's more than this, but just for F/YF/G/YG:

F (full-size): Ford Taurus, Mercury Sable

YF (special full-size): Toyota Camry, Nissan Maxima, Dodge Intrepid, Hyundai XG300/350 (can someone confirm the Hyundai, I know they have a few of them, and I'm assuming they're YF and not YG)

G (premium): Mercury Grand Marquis

YG (special premium): Mazda Millenia, Mitsubishi Diamante

Okay, who else knows some more that can be found on Hertz lots these days?

SFO has the only YG car i've seen that actually fits the class--Toyota Avalon.

what locations have the intrepids? i've never run into one....

is Subura Legacy wagon YF also??

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Seat1A:
SFO has the only YG car i've seen that actually fits the class--Toyota Avalon.

what locations have the intrepids? i've never run into one....</font>

I am 5* with Hertz. I had a full size reserved at SJC today. I went to see what they gave me and there was a Taurus waiting. I went inside and asked for an upgrade and they gave me the Camry. As I was walking through the lot I noticed a few Intrepids out there.

How does one book a YF or YG on Hertz' website? All I ever see are Taurus, Grand Marquis, then either 4WD or Prestige collection vehicles.

There are places such as California where I would much rather be in an import, whereas I prefer a domestic in the Midwest.

LAX has given me a Millenia a couple of times as a "free upgrade."

at first, the logic missed me, until i drove it up the Central Valley in California, and then it became immediately apparent that perhaps the overall smoothness and that pleasant sunroof really helped.

of course, i try to wheedle my way into the Volvo or the Jag, but that's not always successful. i don't mind the Taurus. never had a Camry...

I generally reserve a "mid-size" and end up getting a Taurus. My last rental in IND I had a Mazda 626. What a downer. Four cylinder and no power seat. Also very uncomfortable. I guess I should have went back in to the counter and asked for another car. Does this usually work for anyone?