Avis - Warning about Avis in Italy & why I may soon be a former President's Club customer




AZ Travels the World
May 12, 03, 4:13 pm
I have waited several weeks before posting this story, as I wanted to give Avis an opportunity to fix the problem. Unfortunately, I’ve been informed they’re not fixing it, so now I will tell it -- primarily as a warning to anyone else planning to rent a car from Avis in Milan.

I am an Avis President’s Club member and have been an exclusive Avis renter for 15 years – both business and leisure. So I have a long history with Avis. From a customer service standpoint this appears to make no difference to them.

I rented a car upon arrival at MXP (Milan) last month for a week in Northern Italy. I booked the car on-line and declined all optional insurance coverage. When I went to pick up the car in the terminal garage, the man grabbed the folder with my name on it. He said, “You want insurance?” “No thank you,” I said, “I do not need it.”

He opened the contract, looked at it and handed it to me. He pointed to 3 or 4 circles and said, “Initial, initial, initial, sign.” Same drill – I’ve done it a thousand times. I looked at the contract. It was all in Italian. I initialed, signed and left.

Fast forward to the end of the trip, and I return the vehicle, as scheduled, full of diesel, at the Venice airport. I turned in the keys and contract at the counter and they said they’d mail a receipt – because it’s an inter-city rental, they can’t close it out for me right then and there.

Credit card bill arrives. I’m charged almost twice what I should have been. I look up the charges on-line and see that I was charged for collision insurance and the fuel purchase option, neither of which I accepted or wanted.

I called Avis. “There must be a mistake. I did not take insurance nor the fuel purchase option.” I described what happened when I picked up the car and that I could not read the contract, as I don’t speak Italian. I explain that when I reserved the car I declined all coverage, which is clearly in my reservation. I suggest she look at my long record of rentals and see how I have never accepted any insurance coverage or the fuel option. They’ll look into it and call me back. The woman was very unhelpful, would not listen to me and gave me no sense that she was going to try to get this cleared up. (We’re talking about excess charges of a little more than US $300.)

A little over two weeks passes. Today I get a call back from the same unhelpful woman: “Sir, you signed for these options. You must pay for them. The people in-country will not reverse your charges.”

Me: “As I told you before, I may well have signed it, but I couldn’t read it. I told the agent very clearly that I did not want or need insurance and we never even discussed a fuel option and I returned the car full of gas. You definitely have a record of that. He gave me a contract, written in Italian, to sign. I had to trust that it reflected what we had just talked about.

Further, I said, “look back over 15-plus years of my hundreds of rentals with Avis. Never on a single occasion, either domestically or internationally, have I accepted either the insurance or the advance fuel purchase option. Not one time. In this case he asked me if I wanted the insurance that I had already declined in my reservation and, again, I said no. We didn’t even talk about the fuel option. He gave me a contract in a language I can’t read and I signed it. After all these years as an Avis President’s Club member why do you think I would suddenly accept these coverages for the very first time, fill the car with gas before returning it and then call you to try to get the charges removed from my bill? Logic alone tells you that it makes no sense. Plus, you can see for yourself, I have no history of doing anything like this.

“This is either a mistake or I was taken advantage of by the Italian operator in Milan. If it is an honest mistake it should be no problem fixing it. If you aren’t willing to do that, I can only assume that either you don’t believe me and my 15-year record of rentals with your company is of no value in demonstrating my history, or the operator in Milan intentionally defrauded me and you aren’t willing to do anything about it."

The woman kept insisting that this was the final decision by the people in Italy and there was nothing they could do about it because “I was not there with you when you talked to the agent. There is no way to prove your case. It is their decision and there is nothing anyone in the US can do about it.”

I told her I found it hard to believe that this US-based company is completely victim to their operators all over the world and that even in a case like this they do not have the power to override them. She said she’d try talking to “management” one more time and get back to me but told me I should not expect anything to change.

I cannot imagine how it could possibly be worth it to Avis to a) let this stand for any customer under this set of circumstances, let alone a long-standing member of their elite tier; and b) hold the line on the issue and watch someone like me potentially walk away and never do business with them again.

Does anyone know the name & contact info of a person high up at Avis who I could address a letter to? I still have to believe that someone in a management position will hear this story, look at the record and make the right decision. After all these years, I’m certainly going to give them that shot. Perhaps someone, at some level, will “Try Harder.”


cattle
May 12, 03, 5:00 pm
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

When you get the call back ask to speak to her supervisor if the situation hasn't improved. If you get no where I would fax a letter to the Presidents office with a CC to the Better Business Beraeu and a copy of the fax log showing you really did fax it to the BBB. This will get there attention for sure.

Make sure to thank the Presidents office in advance for their help in clearing up this matter. It always helps to keep it positive when dealing with higher ups so you don't come across as some who is just p****d. This has worked very well for me in the past. Others may have different suggestions.

Good Luck

UpgradesMan
May 12, 03, 9:43 pm
Seems to me that slowly but surely Avis customer service levels are declining more and more as time goes by, I guess they want Presidents Club members to move over to Hertz Presidents Circle...? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif


honu
May 13, 03, 4:14 am
It sounds like the Italian operator ripped you off. Italian car rental agents are among the worse scum of the earth. They never tried to pull this kind of fast one on me (I speak read and write Italian fluently), but everytime I rented in Italy (from Avis or Thrifty), I've always had to spend at least one half hour in heated discussion (in Italian, of course) at pick up or drop off time, because somehow the rate had mysteriously morphed into a more expensive one, the car I reserved was not available, etc. On a couple of occasions, I had to get things straightened out after I got back, by calling CS in the US.

May I add another suggestion: I'm sure you've read the Ombudsman column on the Conde Nast Traveler magazine. Your problem sounds like a classic case for the Ombudsman to pick up. Good luck to you!

fly co to see the yanks
May 13, 03, 6:47 am
"avis customer service" is an oxymoron.

i would dispute the charge with my credit card company. also, there is that web site where you can register complaints. isn't it planet feedback something or other?

[This message has been edited by fly co to see the yanks (edited 05-13-2003).]

QuietLion
May 13, 03, 9:18 am
Dispute the charge for sure. You'll probably have to go several rounds.

QL

AZ Travels the World
May 13, 03, 9:36 am
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by QuietLion:
Dispute the charge for sure. You'll probably have to go several rounds.

QL</font>

The problem with disputing the charges is that they no doubt have a written contract in-hand that shows that I initialed the boxes that indicated I wanted the insurance and the fuel purchase option. In my experience on two occasions getting a credit card company involved in a dispute, they go for the documentation first and I'm afraid in this case they'll just eventually come back to me and say, "Here's the agreement. You signed and accepted these charges. Your claim is denied."

That's why I think my best approach is with Avis. They are the people, after all, who should be able to look at the situation, factor in the similar problems they've had with other customers in Italy, look at my record and status and say, "Why would this guy be making this up. He may have signed the contract, but it was in a different language and is, in fact, completely inconsistent with his 15-year plus rental history as a President's Club member with our company. We have no reason not to believe him."

That's why I like the idea of writing to someone in the Executive Suite at Avis and laying out the story. Any logical thinking, reasonably bright person should be able to listen to what happened, confirm the facts and make a sound, customer-oriented decision.

How hard can this be?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

fly co to see the yanks
May 13, 03, 10:19 am
i've heard the planet feedback thing can be helpful, as well.

UpgradesMan
May 13, 03, 1:18 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AZ Travels the World:
The problem with disputing the charges is that they no doubt have a written contract in-hand that shows that I initialed the boxes that indicated I wanted the insurance and the fuel purchase option. In my experience on two occasions getting a credit card company involved in a dispute, they go for the documentation first and I'm afraid in this case they'll just eventually come back to me and say, "Here's the agreement. You signed and accepted these charges. Your claim is denied."

That's why I think my best approach is with Avis. They are the people, after all, who should be able to look at the situation, factor in the similar problems they've had with other customers in Italy, look at my record and status and say, "Why would this guy be making this up. He may have signed the contract, but it was in a different language and is, in fact, completely inconsistent with his 15-year plus rental history as a President's Club member with our company. We have no reason not to believe him."

That's why I like the idea of writing to someone in the Executive Suite at Avis and laying out the story. Any logical thinking, reasonably bright person should be able to listen to what happened, confirm the facts and make a sound, customer-oriented decision.

How hard can this be?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif</font>

Avis take thier customer rental history offline to be stored after 6 months! & then the information can only be retrieved with the Rental document number, and that takes 7 days, so i guess the people you are speaking to dont want to tell you that they cannot see your renting habits of the last 15 years, they can only see 6 months...

QuietLion
May 13, 03, 7:31 pm
In order to have a valid contract there must be a meeting of minds. Something you couldn't read that went counter to what you were told is not a valid contract.

QL

reisevergnuegen
May 14, 03, 3:21 pm
I had a few similar situations over the years. In all cases I wrote an email to Avis customer service, and every problem was fixed without much hassle.

Maybe when you put things in writing they are looked at by different people, or with more care. It's worth a try.

Good luck!

Doppy
May 15, 03, 9:15 am
I always end up having some kind of an issue with Avis in Europe. Mostly, it seems, that the female agents I've dealt with are always trying to give me some kind of a discount http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Unfortunately, those discounts have invariably ended up messing up the rate plans I booked for one reason or another (e.g. not including fees/insurance to take the car into Eastern Europe). Avis customer service in the US has been a bit difficult to deal with, but basically I've found I need to get in touch with what they call a "lead agent" for international or the country in question (I don't know if they organize by country or what). In the past, the lead agent has contacted the Avis location and taken care of the problem, whether Avis US ends up forking over money they don't really owe me or getting the European location to live up to its obligation. I don't think I've ever actually spoken to the lead agent directly, usually a CSR has to put the complaint in. Maybe you can find a way to get through.

Good luck.

d

AZ Travels the World
May 16, 03, 10:20 am
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Doppy:
I've found I need to get in touch with what they call a "lead agent" for international or the country in question (I don't know if they organize by country or what). In the past, the lead agent has contacted the Avis location and taken care of the problem . . . I don't think I've ever actually spoken to the lead agent directly, usually a CSR has to put the complaint in. Maybe you can find a way to get through.
Good luck.
d</font>

In fact the CSR I've been dealing with has referred several times to the lead agent for Italy who is the person that is apparently interfacing with Avis in Italy. Of course, in spite of trying, I have not been able to talk with that person directly. And because the woman I'm dealing with won't listen, talks right over the top of me and is always just trying to get me off the phone, I have no confidence that lead agent is even getting a clear picture of the situation.

At this point I will give the CSR I'm dealing with next week to get back to me as she promised and then I'll elevate the issue and see if I can find anyone who will "Try Harder." No one out here has any experience with anyone high up in customer service at Avis that would be good to address a letter to? If not, I think I'll just write to the CEO and let it trickle down from there.

Interestingly, the President's Club thing doesn't appear to be much more than smoke and mirrors. While I do occasionally get a double-upgrade at a rental location, other than that there is no customer service. I called the President's Club line and asked for someone who could help me with a problem and was told the basic International customer service group is where I have to go; they have no one in the President's Club who deals with member problems. What a way to run a company. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

fly co to see the yanks
May 16, 03, 2:27 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AZ Travels the World:
And because the woman I'm dealing with won't listen, talks right over the top of me and is always just trying to get me off the phone, I have no confidence that lead agent is even getting a clear picture of the situation.

Interestingly, the President's Club thing doesn't appear to be much more than smoke and mirrors.

other than that there is no customer service. I called the President's Club line and asked for someone who could help me with a problem and was told the basic International customer service group is where I have to go; they have no one in the President's Club who deals with member problems. What a way to run a company. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif </font>

again, "avis customer service" is an oxymoron. it really is amazing. aren't there any avis lurkers in this forum that can assist? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif



[This message has been edited by fly co to see the yanks (edited 05-16-2003).]

jabez
May 17, 03, 5:56 am
Although not an expert,I think collision damage insurance (CDW)and loss damage waiver insurance (LDW) is required by virtually every car insurance company in Italy.I also believe that theft protection insurance is mandatoey there as well. Most credit card companies (including American Express)will not cover this in Italy.
If,in advance,you contacted your credit card co. and they said they did cover it there,the deductable would probably be around $5,000.If the rental company allowed you to then decline,they would put at least a $5,000 "hold" on your Credit card account.
It is possible that your Credit card is not on the "approved list" for that Avis location (it can change by city/location).As an example the MBNA Platinum Mastercard is the only one I know that is allowed to be used to waive the insurance at Hertz Florence airport.
Since I don't know the specifics,it may be that the combination of language differences and the rules re. CDW & LDW may be why you were charged. Again,the theft insurance is mndatory.

gnaget
May 18, 03, 4:45 pm
Yes, I am surprised that the CC would cover you. I have always found that Italy is on the black-list. Also the rates are really high. Therefore, it is a good idea to fly into Switzerland and get the car there. I did rent a car from Thrifty in Rome last year and insurance was mandatory.

I have a Swedish Avis contract here on my desk and was surprised that everything in fact is in Swedish. It does say "translation available at all rental stations" above the signature box.

One tip is that the the box on the left is "yes" and the right is "decline". It sounds silly but could be helpful......

AZ Travels the World
May 18, 03, 5:03 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jabez:
Although not an expert,I think collision damage insurance (CDW)and loss damage waiver insurance (LDW) is required by virtually every car insurance company in Italy.I also believe that theft protection insurance is mandatoey there as well. Most credit card companies (including American Express)will not cover this in Italy.
. . CDW & LDW may be why you were charged. Again,the theft insurance is mndatory.</font>

I checked this out very thoroughly before I left because I had heard many conflicting stories. CDW & LDW is not required by law in Italy, but auto theft coverage is required and the rate for that was built into my quoted rate.

Many credit cards, including American Express, do not provide coverage in Italy. However, Visa Platinum does cover Italy and there is no deductible. I called them to confirm and printed out a copy of the complete terms & limitations from their web site. It excludes a few other countries, but not Italy. For it to in effect you must decline the coverage by the rental company (which I thought I was doing, per my reservation) and it is secondary coverage to any personal auto insurance you may have.

For anyone else interested, the VISA coverage is detailed here: http://www.usa.visa.com/personal/cards/benefits/auto_rental_insurance.html?it=il_/personal/cards/visa_platinum.html#link7



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