Starwood Preferred Guest - What is the benchmark SPG award?

Before anyone flames me, I searched the board but couldn't find an answer. I also searched the SPG award chart, but didn't find a clear-cut answer.

What, in your opinion, is the benchmark SPG award against which you compare the program to others - or against which you calculate the "value" of your points?

With HH fans, it's very clearly the ALON and GLON/P awards - 175,000 points for 6 nights at their high-end hotels. You see this award type referred to all over the HH board and broken down in calculations, comparisons, etc.

With Marriott, it's the 087 package - 7 nights at a high-end Marriott plus 120,000 FF miles.

There are other popular awards in those two programs, but most people (FT'ers, anyway) aspire for one of these awards.

Is there a similar concept with SPG? What is your favorite award? Is it the Nights & Flights award? 5th Night Free? Something else?

I tend to value the programs from both ends: a cheap weekend award (Cat 2 or 3) where Priceline is an option and a 6- or 7-night award in a high-end property where Priceline hotels are NOT available. From both ends, SPG looks like a strong program, but I was wondering how the "veterans" value the awards...

Personally I am not really concerned with the number of points in total but much more concerned with the quality of the property I can stay at. Losing Manele and The Lodge IMHO is a big blow. As is the continual decline of the quality of some of the other properties.

But if push came to shove, I guess 5th night free at a 5* or 6* would be it.

For me, it is 5th Night Free.

For me, there is no "benchmark" award. Sure, you can get better value with a 5th night free award, but that is only useful if long stays in one place are your typical travel pattern. I have a record of every leisure stay I've made over the last 7 years. 80% of those stays are one night stays and only 3% are for 5 nights or more. Using this data, I weight the awards accordingly when determining how I value my points. I'll use points at a cat 1 or cat 2 property if my valuation warrants.

I agree. 5th Night Free.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cactuspete:
For me, it is 5th Night Free.</font>

bingo. i rarely (if ever) cash in an award for a single night or two. the fifth night free is what i use awards for.

No blackout dates. I guess you could call this first night free (as in available).

Cool - lots of 5th Night Free fans.

Follow-up question: is there any particular property that is most popular with SPG members for awards? (With HH, there are dozens of threads devoted solely to their Big Island hotel. With Marriott, there are many devoted to Kauai and Maui awards.)

From browsing the category charts, that Bora Bora one looks like a nice one to set my sights on. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Are the Lana'i properties going away sometime soon? Those Italian hotels all sound nice, too.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pinniped:
Follow-up question: is there any particular property that is most popular with SPG members for awards? (With HH, there are dozens of threads devoted solely to their Big Island hotel. With Marriott, there are many devoted to Kauai and Maui awards.)</font>

IMO, one of the best things about the SPG program is the wide selection of great properties from which to choose. Much better than HH or Marriott. So I think the answer to your question is no, there is not one particular property that is the crown jewel.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">From browsing the category charts, that Bora Bora one looks like a nice one to set my sights on. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Are the Lana'i properties going away sometime soon? Those Italian hotels all sound nice, too.</font>

Better look at the redemption rate for the Bora Bora Nui (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum74/HTML/007688.html) before you set your sights too high (Cat 6 now??). http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif And yes, the Lanai properties soon will be gone (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum74/HTML/009610.html).


[This message has been edited by cactuspete (edited Feb 24, 2004).]

Fifth night free is good!

Nights and flights is good too! If you're going to be redeeming some of your points for airline miles anyway, this is the way to go.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">With Nights & Flights, you can redeem 60,000 Starpoints for 50,000 airline miles and five free nights at a Category 3 hotel or resort.
With Nights & Flights II, you can redeem 70,000 Starpoints and receive 50,000 airline miles and five free nights at a Category 4 hotel or resort. </font>
So, it would normally cost 40,000 Starpoints for 50,000 airline miles. And five free nights at Cat 3 would normally be 28,000 Starpoints (INCLUDING the fifth night free!). Nights and Flights saves you an additional 8,000 points.

Or, five free nights at Cat 4 would normally cost 40,000 (including fifth night free), so the Nights and Flights II award saves you an additional 10,000 points.

Of course, many of us already have airline miles coming out our ears and don't want or need to redeem Starpoints for them. But for some people....


Kathy

As for particular hotels, I thought the Royal Orchid Sheraton in Bangkok, a Cat 1 that costs 2,000 points per night on Fri/Sat and 3,000 points per night otherwise, was a pretty good redemption value (stayed there last year).

And I remember back in 2002 there was an SPG "Conde Nast" promo that I made good use of. A five-night stay at the St. Regis Beijing cost only 25,000 Starpoints! As a Cat 4, it would normally be 10,000/night or 40,000 for five nights.


Kathy

I call it a tie between the "5th Night Free" club and the overall value of the Asian properties right now (Thailand at SPG level 2 for the SGS or HKG at level 3). http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cactuspete:
Better look at the redemption rate for the Bora Bora Nui (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum74/HTML/007688.html) before you set your sights too high (Cat 6 now??). http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif And yes, the Lanai properties soon will be gone (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum74/HTML/009610.html).


[This message has been edited by cactuspete (edited Feb 24, 2004).]</font>

I was looking at the Cat6 redemption rates, and after reading that thread about Bora Bora I'm more confused than anything.

http://www.starwood.com/preferredguest/starpoints/hotel_detail.html?propertyID=1410&neverShowCheckAvail=yes

The SPG site shows awards as ranging 20k-25k/nt. (So, 80k-100k for 5 nights, just like any other Cat6.) This link is active as of right now. Are these rates going up in the future?

Bummer about Lana'i... Isn't Starwood getting the Renaissance Wailea? We took our honeymoon there using Marriott points. That's a nice option as it is on the best end of Maui, but I isn't the same as Lana'i.

48k points for 5 nights at the Princeville Resort.

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View from seat 24E

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pinniped:
The SPG site shows awards as ranging 20k-25k/nt. (So, 80k-100k for 5 nights, just like any other Cat6.) This link is active as of right now. Are these rates going up in the future?</font>The website is apparently incorrect. Lurker posted in the aforementioned thread <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Level one is for a Beach Oceanfront Bungalow with a private balcony. The cost for this in Starpoints is 40,000 Starpoints per night during low season. During high season, it is 50,000 Starpoints per night. Fifth night free applies for either season.

Level two is for the Over-the-Water Bungalow that features its own swimming pontoon. The cost for this in Starpoints is 44,000 Starpoints per night during low season. During high season it is 62,500 Starpoints per night. Fifth night free applies for either season.</font>5th night free applies as he says, so 5 nights runs 160,000 to 250,000 points depending on season and room type.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by auh2o:
Personally I am not really concerned with the number of points in total but much more concerned with the quality of the property I can stay at. Losing Manele and The Lodge IMHO is a big blow. As is the continual decline of the quality of some of the other properties.

But if push came to shove, I guess 5th night free at a 5* or 6* would be it.</font>
Agree 100% with the sentiments above.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gleff:
Originally posted by pinniped:
The SPG site shows awards as ranging 20k-25k/nt. (So, 80k-100k for 5 nights, just like any other Cat6.) This link is active as of right now. Are these rates going up in the future?</font>The website is apparently incorrect. Lurker posted in the aforementioned thread <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Level one is for a Beach Oceanfront Bungalow with a private balcony. The cost for this in Starpoints is 40,000 Starpoints per night during low season. During high season, it is 50,000 Starpoints per night. Fifth night free applies for either season.

Level two is for the Over-the-Water Bungalow that features its own swimming pontoon. The cost for this in Starpoints is 44,000 Starpoints per night during low season. During high season it is 62,500 Starpoints per night. Fifth night free applies for either season.</font>5th night free applies as he says, so 5 nights runs 160,000 to 250,000 points depending on season and room type.

I assume that the inconsistency is due to the Suite awards. If a Starwood property is All-suite, then do different award levels apply? Is there a chart somewhere showing these Level 1 and Level 2 suites. (e.g., Cat 6 level 2 = X, etc.)

Not sure if this is in Lurker's domain, but if that link I hit yesterday at about 5:30 EST is wrong...then it is still wrong as of 9:45 EST today. (And I obviously wasn't the first one to notice it at 5:30 yesterday.)

Best award, in my opinion is the 70K Nights & Flights, assuming you want to stay 5 nights in a Category 4 somewhere.

Second choice would be 5th night free (which also happens to be a part of the Nights & Flights).

I tend to use my points for category 1 or 2 hotel nights. Getting a night for 2000 points that I would have spent $100 on is good value to me.

I also love the points and cash award. Staying at a nice category 4 (like the Europa & Regina or Madrid Palace) for 4,000 points and $60 is a great deal when I would have spent $250-$300 on the night otherwise.

My point balance is always pretty low because I tend to use them quickly as it is easy to find value in the program.

I have not yet used points for a category 5 or 6 hotel, as the 20,000+ points required is just too valuable.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by johnep1:
I tend to use my points for category 1 or 2 hotel nights.</font>

Very true. The efficient SPG point user could cobble together over three weeks of Cat. 1 & 2 property free nights and see a significant part of Asia/Australia/New Zealand with only about 70k Starpoints...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1005:
Very true. The efficient SPG point user could cobble together over three weeks of Cat. 1 & 2 property free nights and see a significant part of Asia/Australia/New Zealand with only about 70k Starpoints...</font>


Thats very true. The fact that I get a free night for 2K to 3K keeps me going. Especially, the ones near Tajmahal, Jaipur, Bangalore in India ...

BTW, does anyone know whats the typical $ rate in Bora Bora. thanks

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pinniped:
Not sure if this is in Lurker's domain, but if that link I hit yesterday at about 5:30 EST is wrong...then it is still wrong as of 9:45 EST today. (And I obviously wasn't the first one to notice it at 5:30 yesterday.)</font>

It's wrong, and as far as I have been able to determine, it can't be fixed in the short-term.

Sincerely,

William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Starwood Lurker:
It's wrong, and as far as I have been able to determine, it can't be fixed in the short-term.
</font>

Not that this will affect me because I won't have enough points for even 1 night at this place for many, many months, but is Starwood honoring the posted redemption rates until the site is updated to the new rates?

Also...does anyone have a link to the (new?) award chart for Suites by Category? (I see Cat6 is 40k-62.5k/nt. for Level 1 and Leve 2 suites, but what about booking suites in lower categories?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pinniped:
Not that this will affect me because I won't have enough points for even 1 night at this place for many, many months, but is Starwood honoring the posted redemption rates until the site is updated to the new rates?

Also...does anyone have a link to the (new?) award chart for Suites by Category? (I see Cat6 is 40k-62.5k/nt. for Level 1 and Leve 2 suites, but what about booking suites in lower categories?</font>

Aww, let's not start that up again... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Expect a grand plus per night for Bora Bora, room, and food/drinks. Although more than your average Hawaii hotel. It is well worth it. I know I will be visiting Bora Bora Nui on a yearly basis as long as cash flow is going well http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ryan754 (edited Feb 27, 2004).]

When I ended up with 70,000 points after last summer's Australia 50K bonus and other stays I thought about redeeming for the 5 night awards for a Cat 4 or 5 room.

I have been working on calculations for comparing the different earning and redemption rates for the 5 major hotel programs: Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, Priority Club, and Starwood. It is a project still in development, but patterns have become quite clear to me.

I have had a load of Hilton points to use this past year so I put my extended stays with Hilton, which generally is a much better value for me. Without need for an extended stay at a Starwood Cat 4-6, I found myself getting the best value for my points by using them at Cat 1 and Cat 2 hotels.

Since the Australian 50,000 pt promo in July, I have redeemed 20 nights for 60,700 points. (5 nights Cat.1, 11 Cat. 2 nights, 4 nights were Cat. 3 Cash & Points awards so $45 + 2,800 points for those nights).

I valued the money saved at $2,550 for the 20 nights. This is a "Fair Market Value" estimate for what I could have been expected to pay for comparable hotels in these cities. The $2,550 is about $1,000 less than the price for paid stays had I stayed at the same Starwood properties on the best paid rate available for the times I booked.

For an $800 investment in Australia, plus $200 for Cash and Points, I have had a good return on the points earned, approximately $3,500 Fair Market Value in rooms.

Even Priceline would be difficult to beat my 25 nights with Starwood for $1000.

I even had a number of suites in those 25 stays http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif.

does anyone use the cash and points. I think it can be a great deal. Staying in Sheraton Laguna Nusa Dua Bali for 8 nights for 2,800 points and $45 per night. So my stay will cost 22,400 points and $360. To stay on points only would cost 49000. So for $360 I save 26,600 points. Not bad.??

I also highly value property quality. Starwood is the definitive winner there.

Marriott may allow rewards to be USED at RC and several other fine properties, but you cannot EARN at those properties.

Starwood points are also the ONLY ones that transfer 1:1 into FF miles. Nights and Flights also yield 18-20K bonus FF miles.

-Property quality
-1:1 airline transfer
-5K for every 20K transferred
-18-20K bonus miles from nights and flights awards
-no blackout dates
-haven't looked at other programs really closely, but the 4 points per dollar spent for elite + credit card earn rate, and the current award amounts seem to be pretty good
-suite upgrade for Plat is in T&C, only other program that has it in T&C is IC RA, which has murkier requirements for earning the status
-only chain where expansion is both rapid and innovative (aloft and ESW)
-SVO appears to be one of the most effective fractional ownership programs on the market, and is connected to SPG. Only thing missing is a relationship between SVO and St Regis Residence Club.

One thing I'm not sure about is earning stays/nights and receiving elite benefits on award stays in other programs.

With Starwood, you don't earn, and the hotel can choose whether to give you benefits or not.



I would love to use cash and points, but only about 127 properties allow that award globally :D