Starwood Preferred Guest - SPG account could be freezed or suspended?

There are a lot of discussion on Randy's forum regarding the trading of SPG points.
William gave friendly warnings( that I believe ) to its traders several times.

I just want to know that has anyone's account been freezed or suspended because of sale on E-bay and/or bartering such as coupon connection? Are there any legal battles between Airlines/hotels and customers?

If they have been freezed, we shall know clearly what risk we are taking and what benefits we are getting.

[This message has been edited by Tak (edited Feb 25, 2004).]

Whislt I haven't heard of it happening I would not be superised. Starwood in a effort to make the program a success, made SPG points a commodity. Like all commodities, in this case a highly sought after one, people will trade. Trading I think is fair and Starwood should embrace that. Selling on the otherhand is where I would draw the line.

William has been a tremendous source of information and assistance on FT. I believe that he is probably not the only rep from Starwood that strolls through the website and especially the Starwood thread. I would guess that when he posts the warnings, he is performing a twofold act: first, he is acting in his capacity to alert us to what the consequences MAY be if we are so blatant as to publically ignore the terms and conditions of Starwood Preferred Guest Program; and secondly, he is TRYING TO PROTECT US from those consequences. I don't believe for one moment that he , himself would intentionally hurt another Flyertalker, I think that it is important to use discretion and intelligence if you are going to attempt to beat the system in any way. There has been no information on these boards, as far as I know, that anyone has had their points frozen or taken away. But it would seem to me that if one wanted to take risks they would be a bit subtle about it. Just MHO.

[This message has been edited by Marysunshine (edited Feb 25, 2004).]

Personally, I have no plan to trade my SPG points at all. I just feel that William is doing a very good job for us here and there.

I haven't gone through the archives, but I do recall that not only have accounts been frozen based on Ebay transactions but legal proceedings have been initiated. I don't know the outcomes of any of those cases, however.

I think that William has been quite upfront that he doesn't want anyone to be surprised by the consequences of their actions. So I also think I remember him saying that swapping of SPG50s and the like isn't going likely to cause anyone concern. And that's really just good customer service -- at the point where Starwood is initiating an account lockdown or heaven forbid legal action, they've already given up on a customer... better for them not to get to that point in the first place.

Personally, I wouldn't go on Ebay and offer up awards. I wouldn't suggest anyone else do it either. That's just asking for trouble.

I wouldn't have any problem helping out a friend I met on Flyertalk... say that someone needed a hotel in New York during the Freddies or something, and said they'd "get me back" for the favor. They might do a service back by giving me a Hilton night somewhere, or a flight for my brother, or who knows what else.

I do think those are very different scenarios. William and/or Starwood's lawyers might well disagree.

No, I wouldn't disagree. After all, we allow you to make an award reservation and put someone else's name on it as a gift. In a case like that, we are never really going to know the circumstances that brought that about. So, if in fact, someone said to someone else, "you know, I have a lot of Starpoints, but I need to stay in X city where there is no Starwood property. How about if you make an award reservation for me at the Hilton on this date and I make an award reservation for you on this date for the Starwood property you want to go to.." how would we begin to know the true circumstances?

However, if it involves the trade of raw actual Starpoints as currency, then that is an issue for us, and eventually you. People have been caught doing weird things with their accounts - having dummy stays posted when they didn't stay, attempting to transfer to an unauthorized account, maintaining more than one account, abusing the check-in, check-out routine to gain more stays than you actually made, etc. This is where you are more than likely going to receive some communication from Accounts Integrity to cease and desist, and where you are most likely to have your account frozen until you respond. If you don't cease and desist, you will hear from the legal department that your account is closed and your Starpoints forfeited. Then, whether or not it becomes a legal issue is up to you, because that is what it will take to get it back.

Seriously folks, don't play around with this stuff. I really only have everyone's best interests in mind - yours and the company's.

Sincerely,

William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

[This message has been edited by Starwood Lurker (edited Feb 25, 2004).]

I'm a little confused here - how is it even possible to transfer *points? It's not like you can just call up *wood and request to transfer points to any random account. As far as I know, you have to be in the same household to transfer points between one another.

How do people auction off points on eBay if there isn't any way to get them to the receiving account?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Cory6188:
I'm a little confused here - how is it even possible to transfer *points? It's not like you can just call up *wood and request to transfer points to any random account. As far as I know, you have to be in the same household to transfer points between one another.

How do people auction off points on eBay if there isn't any way to get them to the receiving account?</font>

I assume the kind of shenanigans involved would be.. auction points on ebay, open account at the same address as the auctioner, transfer points among household accounts....

And I would make a further conjecture that opening a new account (especially when last names don't match) and immediately transferring points into that account might raise flags.

If the address on the account were then changed after having points transferred in... or if that new account was merged with an existing account... red flags might get raised!

And while I often make a defense of exchanges on coupon connection and elsewhere, I think it's worth noting that i don't think my arguments apply in situations like the above at all.

While there may be antitrust problems (Starwood sells points but doesn't allow anyone else to, keeps price artificially high, etc) that's really for legal theorists to debate. And does, to me, represent a certain kind of fraud that I wouldn't want to be a part of, speaking only for myself.

No, I wouldn't disagree. After all, we allow you to make an award reservation and put someone else's name on it as a gift. In a case like that, we are never really going to know the circumstances that brought that about. So, if in fact, someone said to someone else, "you know, I have a lot of Starpoints, but I need to stay in X city where there is no Starwood property. How about if you make an award reservation for me at the Hilton on this date and I make an award reservation for you on this date for the Starwood property you want to go to.." how would we begin to know the true circumstances?

However, if it involves the trade of raw actual Starpoints as currency, then that is an issue for us, and eventually you. People have been caught doing weird things with their accounts - having dummy stays posted when they didn't stay, attempting to transfer to an unauthorized account, maintaining more than one account, abusing the check-in, check-out routine to gain more stays than you actually made, etc. This is where you are more than likely going to receive some communication from Accounts Integrity to cease and desist, and where you are most likely to have your account frozen until you respond. If you don't cease and desist, you will hear from the legal department that your account is closed and your Starpoints forfeited. Then, whether or not it becomes a legal issue is up to you, because that is what it will take to get it back.

Seriously folks, don't play around with this stuff. I really only have everyone's best interests in mind - yours and the company's.

Sincerely,

William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

[This message has been edited by Starwood Lurker (edited Feb 25, 2004).]

Just a thought, which came to me last night, although with twins on the way I wont be able to capitalise on it for a year or two...On a long family vacation, with a 14 night stay, is it possible for register 14 stays by having reservations on my account days 1, 3, 5, etc and on my wife's account days 2, 4, 6 etc thus netting us both 7 stays? Or would this come under the "playing about" with stuff we shouldnt be playing about with philosophy?

Sounds to me like that's valid, however, you would have to have 14 separate reservations and check in and check out everyday (i.e. I don't think you could stay in the same room the whole time).

Just a thought, which came to me last night, although with twins on the way I wont be able to capitalise on it for a year or two...On a long family vacation, with a 14 night stay, is it possible for register 14 stays by having reservations on my account days 1, 3, 5, etc and on my wife's account days 2, 4, 6 etc thus netting us both 7 stays? Or would this come under the "playing about" with stuff we shouldnt be playing about with philosophy?

Very interesting scenario. Looking forward to the response from the Starwood Lurker. My guess is that if the hotel reports this to SPG, then you are trying to "beat" the system and they will come after you. If the hotel looks the other way or do not even realize what is going on, then you should be OK. Just my opinion until the experts chime in.

Just a thought, which came to me last night, although with twins on the way I wont be able to capitalise on it for a year or two...On a long family vacation, with a 14 night stay, is it possible for register 14 stays by having reservations on my account days 1, 3, 5, etc and on my wife's account days 2, 4, 6 etc thus netting us both 7 stays? Or would this come under the "playing about" with stuff we shouldnt be playing about with philosophy?

My apologies, but I'm not going to endorse or even comment on such a situation. I have no idea how a property is going to post stays like this and that has everything to do with the outcome.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Seriously, why even ask the Lurker to answer something like this?

There are known tricks that fall under the radar. Let's keep them under the radar.

My apologies, but I'm not going to endorse or even comment on such a situation. I have no idea how a property is going to post stays like this and that has everything to do with the outcome.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Better yet, with young twins, if it is a resort and they can't get a late checkout, how are they going to juggle the twins, and their luggage, between 12:00 and 3:00 PM every afternoon!