Starwood Preferred Guest - Internet Best Rate Guarantee - NOT!

This is a copy of an e-mail sent to the FourPoints, Sydney -
Dear Sirs:
Re:XXXXXXX
Confirmation #733097907
Dec. 15 (2) nights, checking out Dec. 17
Dec. 19 (1) night, checking out Dec. 20
Please note that this reservation was made and pre-paid at the Internet AARP rate of 127.50AUD
A lower Internet AARP rate of 120AUD subsequently showed up on my comuter search.
As I made and pre-paid this reservation in good faith - ackowledging the Starwood/Sheraton promise of "The Best Rate Guarantee" - I was upset to find the lower rate advertised on the Internet Starwood site.
I would appreciate the courtesy of adjusting my pre-paid rate of 127.50 AUD to the rate of 120AUD.
This would total an adjustment of 7.50AUD for each of the 3 nights reserved for a total adjustment of 22.50AUD (to my credit card as noted on the reservation.)
Thank you very much for your courteous attention to this matter.
Signed XXXXXX

I purposely made these reservations early, and "put the trip to bed" so to speak....it's so annoying to continually check rates -and find lower... I also booked rooms at this rate for the other 2 couples going with us - I am embarrassed for my error!
I "bookmarked" the SPG web page with the lower rates - and have it saved to my "favorites". I have been out of the country for a while, with no time to look into this. Today, (first chance at my computer) I find the hotel is sold out! - how reasonable is it to find rates GO DOWN with higher occupancy?
Anyway - at only a difference total of 22.50AUD it's not such a big deal- but would at the least buy a 'cuppa or two in Sydney. Comments anyone? William - are you listening?

With the spg best rate guarantee, you need to complete the form (check the link for BRG,) and fax the form in with the information printed out where you found the lower rate.

I have had to do this twice, two different stays, but it is relatively painless and they give an additional discount, if you follow the rules.

Starwood wasn't stupid when they came up with their Best Rate Guarantee. Unfortunately, it only applies to rates you can cancel if you find a cheaper rate elsewhere.

I sympathize as I just booked a AAA rate on spg.com only to find that the same AAA rate for the same room, dates, everything could be had for $25 a night less - a $75 savings plus tax over the three nights - on several other websites.

*wood won't honor the Best Rate Guarantee on AARP rates or on AAA rates. (It's spelled out in their terms.) They also won't allow you to cancel a prepaid non-refundable reservation an hour after making it, as airlines will (actually they give you 24 hours).

Despite the letter ozstamps received from Jim Berra saying he's confident you'll find the lowest rates on the spg websites, it just isn't so.

It's very frustrating to know that a few seconds cost me $75+, but now I know not to trust the website no matter what Berra says.

I like Starwood, but this has left a bad taste.

From the Best Rate Guarantee T&Cs: (emphasis mine)
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">The Best Rate Guarantee does not apply to unpublished rates. Unpublished rates include private rates, packaged rates, rates involving a prepaid voucher program, hotel rooms sold as part of a travel package, and rates not available to the general public. Rates not available to the general public include corporate discount rates, group rates, meeting rates, any rates requiring membership in a club such as AAA rates or AARP rates, affinity program, or other organization where the rates are targeted specifically toward a specific group of individuals and not intended for the general public.</font>

Edited to add the T&C section

[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 09-03-2003).]

I was under the impression that the BRG was available only for US properties (but I might be wrong). Yes, it's a bit cumbersome as a procedure, and occasionally the hotel won't honor it right away, thus requiring a call (or two) to SPG CS, but, hey, it's better than no BRG at all.

When a vendor gives a low price guarantee, it never implies that they always have the lowest price.

It simply says that they have made a calculation based on how many people will start to shop at the vendor without comparison shopping thinking that the rates must be lowest because of the guarantee and hence will never get to invoke the guarantee. Matching the price is never a loss for the property since they have offered that price elsewhere and the additional percentage they give out for those who invoke it is more than made up for by those that never bother to check and often overpay.

Anyone who has been in the electronic business knows this very well.

I had this same experience this week with an upcoming stay. Very frustrating. When I called *wood I was told "well, after you stay, then fax us what you found, and we'll see if we will make the adjustment." When I asked why they couldn't make the adjustment BEFORE I stayed there (seeing as I had not made the stay), they said "well, that's our policy and it's not changing." I too like *wood, but it's this kind of thing that drives me nuts. If you're going to provide a best rate guarantee, why should I have to jump through so many hoops?

to echo letiole above, the BRG is only for "non-qualified" rates, meaning that i don't think it applies to rates such as orbitz or travelocity or expedia because you have to "register" to use these websites & therefore you are receiving a qualified rate - the BRG appears to me to just be a marketing ploy - doubt it ever really works out in the customers favor...

... and this is why the LCC's are beating the hell out of the legacy airlines. Push a large sector of your customer base away from loyalty and towards "who's price is lowest" and guess what... the DON'T come back! It's the same thing thats going on with the airlines, they don't like us doing mileage runs coz it costs them money... well guess who prices the flights and allowable routings...not me! Same thing is going to happen with Hilton and Starwood... just takes a few people to have an expedia, travelocity or orbitz stay and be denied benefits and guess what... you've driven a customer away. I understand the opaque booking engines should be verboten, but if the problem is price THEN DON"T OFFER THE PROPERTY AT THAT PRICE TO THEM... duh! I would think that even Justin the Intern could grasp this fact....

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by letiole:
Starwood wasn't stupid when they came up with their Best Rate Guarantee. Unfortunately, it only applies to rates you can cancel if you find a cheaper rate elsewhere.
</font>

Not true, I've gotten the BRG three different times on pre-paid spg.com rates (with comparison to orbitzsaver rates).

I generally got the approval within an hour after faxing the info in.

I understand why they don't want to have to cover special groups like "United Association of County Sewer Workers" but IMHO they really should cover the AARP and AAA rates. After all they do have a special choice for thes rates on their websites.

VPescado wrote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I've gotten the BRG three different times on pre-paid spg.com rates ... </font>

Could you have changed or canceled those pre-paid reservations and received a refund? If so, I stand corrected. My point was not about the pre-payment so much, but about the cancellation policy. If you can't cancel and they already have your money, why should they provide BRG (except for the obvious customer service issues)?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by letiole:
VPescado wrote:
Could you have changed or canceled those pre-paid reservations and received a refund? If so, I stand corrected. </font>

Yes. These were the non-cancelable/non-changable rates at Sheraton SJC and Westin SFO. In practice I have found hotels willing to change non-changable reservations within reason. . .ask for the front desk and sweet talk them.

The funny thing is that the first time I used the BRG I tried calling the hotel to get them to match it, so I could avoid the hassle of the paperwork. They said that they couldn't even match the web only rate on spg.com . . .the clerk was sympathetic, but it sounded like her hands were tied.

I tried to use the BRG in the past and gave up. Whoever was working the desk just wouldn't budge after to go rounds with them. It was for the 4-points in YVR and I don't remember all the details that they gave but it was more than enough to leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I still stay at the hotel when the SPG web site rates are in my budget but have moved my regular business back to the Holiday Inn 5 minutes away otherwise (and they still remembered me by name 2 years later when I switched back http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif). I just can't be bothered to go through the hassle of the BRG and the time it takes.

It means less SPG points sometimes but less headaches as well.



[This message has been edited by cattle (edited 09-04-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by letiole:
VPescado wrote:
Could you have changed or canceled those pre-paid reservations and received a refund? If so, I stand corrected. My point was not about the pre-payment so much, but about the cancellation policy. If you can't cancel and they already have your money, why should they provide BRG (except for the obvious customer service issues)? </font>

The fact that you can not cancel a prepaid, non-cancellable res is not relevant. The fact is that the BRG has a particular procedure that needs to be followed. Find a better rate, print it out and get the BRG form by clicking on the BRG link. Complete the form, fax it and the printout of the better rate found and an e-mail will be sent to you, approving the rate reduction and 10% more. You an take this e-mail to the hotel on check-in and they will honor it.

I have done this three times, on prepaid stays. The most recent one at Sunnyvale Sheraton did require the manager's help as the staff was not aware of this program.

The reason for that is that SPG does not own all of the hotels in their program and the independant operators may not be fully linked to SPG. But they do honor the SPG committments including BRG. Sometimes a phone call or talk with the manager may be needed, but it is relatively painless.

The fact that you may be trying to talk to a RA at SPG about this, shows that you did not follow the instructions, and may not be entitled to the reduction. There are simple procedures and as with any business, safeguards to assure that you are entitled to the reduction. Without the written proof from another valid site, with availability, anyone could call in to make a res and merely say the rate they want to pay, alluding to some information that may or may not be confirmable. I have found better rates on WWTE, which most of the airlines use for their hotel res links, such as on aa.com or ual.com.

Print out the better rate and fax it with the BRG form. It works.

rbAA wrote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">The fact that you can not cancel a prepaid, non-cancellable res is not relevant. The fact is that the BRG has a particular procedure that needs to be followed.</font>

You might want to read the whole thread so you have a better understanding about what this is about, but to recap this thread is about the BRG not applying to AAA and AARP rates. SPG has Terms and Conditions for the BRG. And in those T&Cs it states the BRG does not apply to AAA or AARP rates. So yes, you are right that there is a particular procedure to follow and if you read the T&Cs you'd know what that procedure is and when it applies. In the case of AAA and AARP rates it does not apply.

It is my own opinion that *wood is doing this primarily when it benefits them. If your rate is pre-paid and non-cancelable - as many AAA and AARP rates are - it does not benefit them to apply the BRG so they don't.

You continue:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">The fact that you may be trying to talk to a RA at SPG about this, shows that you did not follow the instructions, and may not be entitled to the reduction.</font>

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I didn't talk to a RA at SPG about this and even if I did that certainly wouldn't change whether or not I was entitled to the reduction. The fact is I read the T&Cs, something I suggest you and everyone do before they figure they're protected by the BRG, and talked to the folks who handle the BRG submissions.



[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 09-04-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by letiole:
Starwood wasn't stupid when they came up with their Best Rate Guarantee. Unfortunately, it only applies to rates you can cancel if you find a cheaper rate elsewhere. [This message has been edited by letiole (edited 09-03-2003).]</font>

Letiole, this is a direct quote from your post. It does not apply ONLY to rates you can cancel. It may not apply to the non-cancelable rates you purchased, but that is no reason to rant about how *wood is trying to cheat you with their BRG.

I agree, it is advisable to read the T&C's with any contract, prior to committing. I even read the owner's manual for my new car, though I have been driving and owning cars for some time.

rbAA:

I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to continue to debate this with you, but if you read the entire thread, you'll see your initial advice was irrelevant to the inital post. The initial poster booked an AARP rate and you told her to fill out the forms and implied she'll get the BRG, when that's not the case as AARP rates are excluded. So no, it doesn't appear you are very familiar with the T&Cs or had read them prior to posting that.

You continued to spread that advice even though it was very clear we were talking about rates excluded from the BRG.

You then ignored my previous post where I told VPescado I stood corrected when he pointed out he had received the BRG on pre-paid non-cancelable rates.

Before you start chastizing others (gee, can't seem to find where I was enraged or used violent or extravagant language as you accuse me of doing by saying I was "ranting"), you would be wise to read the complete thread so you have a full understanding of the situation before dolling out advice and accusations that don't apply. No where did I say *wood was trying to cheat me. I do think it's important that when their VP of marketing says he's confident that they're offering the lowest rates available on their website and that the BRG covers them if they're not, that FTs know that's not always the case and they would be wise to shop around.

Anyway ... do try reading - this full thread, the T&Cs, it can be a really helpful skill.

Cheers



[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 09-05-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by letiole:
rbAA:

"I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to continue to debate this with you, but if you read the entire thread, you'll see your initial advice was irrelevant to the inital post. The initial poster booked an AARP rate and you told her to fill out the forms and implied she'll get the BRG, when that's not the case as AARP rates are excluded. So no, it doesn't appear you are very familiar with the T&Cs or had read them prior to posting that."


I beg to differ with you. The initial post addressed the fact that she was using an e-mail to the hotel, directly, to resolve a BRG issue. Had her rate been subject to the BRG, this would have been the wrong way for her to address it.


"You continued to spread that advice even though it was very clear we were talking about rates excluded from the BRG.

You then ignored my previous post where I told VPescado I stood corrected when he pointed out he had received the BRG on pre-paid non-cancelable rates."


Your post on 9/4/03 at 7:53am states otherwise. In fact you go off subject by concentrating on non cancellation rights and asked why would they honor BRG when they already have your money?


"Before you start chastizing others (gee, can't seem to find where I was enraged or used violent or extravagant language as you accuse me of doing by saying I was "ranting"), you would be wise to read the complete thread so you have a full understanding of the situation before dolling out advice and accusations that don't apply. No where did I say *wood was trying to cheat me. I do think it's important that when their VP of marketing says he's confident that they're offering the lowest rates available on their website and that the BRG covers them if they're not, that FTs know that's not always the case and they would be wise to shop around."

A rant does not require violent or foul language. See Dennis Miller... oh, ok so that's not the best example. As far as shopping around and knowing the rules, that is want I did before I reserved at spg.com and had printed out the lower rate at the other website and then printed out the BRG form and then faxed it and received the guarantee, as promised in the T&C's. I could have used the AARP rate as I am a member (Mom signed me up on my 50th,) but that would have resulted in a higher rate after taking all factors into account. Even in your later posted reply on 9/4 at 3:56pm, you are still complaining about Non cancellable rates not being covered by the BRG, or not benefiting SPG for application of the BRG. I can think of many benefits to *wood for the BRG being applied to prepaid or non refundable rates.

"Anyway ... do try reading - this full thread, the T&Cs, it can be a really helpful skill."

Cheers


Great advice, Letiole. You know error in haste and repent in leisure. While you are at it, would you also see if you can get UA to relax their unreasonable restrictions on use of SWU's on fares below H to Europe and Asia? I think this is much more eggregious and designed only to benefit UA and their shareholders.


[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 09-05-2003).]</font>

rbAA:

Well, tough to argue with someone who twists things around and ignores the facts. I won't deal with all of them, but this one is just so blatant.

I wrote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">You then ignored my previous post where I told VPescado I stood corrected when he pointed out he had received the BRG on pre-paid non-cancelable rates."</font>

You replied:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Your post on 9/4/03 at 7:53am states otherwise.</font>

Interesting interpretation because by post at 7:53 on 9.4 clearly says:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Could you have changed or canceled those pre-paid reservations and received a refund? If so, I stand corrected.</font>

I also clearly wrote that I like *wood, but that this has left a bad taste. Yeah, lots of ranting there. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

I got into this thread to help the original poster understand why she didn't get the BRG - because she booked an AARP rate. If only everyone participated in a spirit of helpfulness.

Anyway ... it's been fun, but I'm afraid having a discussion with someone who twists the facts and appears to delight in battles is just a waste. So long.

[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 09-05-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by letiole:
VPescado wrote:
Could you have changed or canceled those pre-paid reservations and received a refund? If so, I stand corrected. My point was not about the pre-payment so much, but about the cancellation policy. If you can't cancel and they already have your money, why should they provide BRG (except for the obvious customer service issues)? </font>

Let's be clear about what you said. Partial quoting of yourself by yourself is misleading and not fair. I know there are some things I have said that I would prefer to be striken from the permanent record.

I too am confused on why we are having this discussion as you obviuosly do not understand my point and my attempt at humor in this matter.

If fact, what I find less than humorous is that too many people out there expect that they do not need to follow the rules or that the rules do not apply to them. There was an excellent letter in this month's Conde Nast Traveler concerning the type of "problems" their Ombudsman is asked to solve. Something along the lines of:

I checked your website and the price was too high. I found the same flight/car/room on a discount site and bought that. I checked in for the flight/car/room and the agent refused to upgrade me unless I paid a fee. They only had middle seats/red cars/non-suite rooms and I don't feel I have received everything I expected as I only sit in aisle seats/drive blue cars/stay in suites. I talked to the onsite staff but they would not give me all of my money back and still give me points/miles etc etc etc.

Reminds me of my favorite oxymoron:

This is a problem that requires government action.

This is only an opinion, but if I was a moderator, I would copy this thread URL, post it in the other topic on this same issue and close this one.

Just my 2 cents,

William

rbAA wrote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Let's be clear about what you said. Partial quoting of yourself by yourself is misleading and not fair. I know there are some things I have said that I would prefer to be striken from the permanent record.</font>

Yes, that's exactly what I said and I have no regrets about saying it. I thought all pre-paid, non-cancelable rates - such as the AAA and AARP rates we were discussing - were not subject to BRG. That's why the cancelation and prepayment issue was relevant to the discussion. VPescado told me differently based on his experiences and I said, I stand corrected. I don't see why that's so difficult to understand.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I too am confused on why we are having this discussion as you obviuosly do not understand my point and my attempt at humor in this matter. </font>

Hmm, there was humor there? OK, I'll, uh, take your word for it.

Hey Guys! - lighten up...just posted to vent a bit--
Anyway - Starwood came through for me (yet again) replied to my direct e-mail to the Sydney Hotel offerring to ammend my rate - BUT, explaining that I was given a superior room with a Harbor view for the little higher difference - my choice whether to change the rate/room - I choose to keep the better room/view - after all this IS a holiday and the extra few dollars is not a big deal. I was gratified to see however that the hotel would reduce the rate down to the web site offerring. Very comendable!

Congrats Renee on getting them to offer to honor the lower rate. even if you decided against it. It appears contacting the hotel directly may not always be a bad idea.