Starwood Preferred Guest - Why was the "free weekends but not at Starwood" thread closed?

I have to say I'm not sure I like FlyerTalk better with all the new closed threads all over the place.

Why is it unacceptable to discuss and voice opinions over the fact that one chain is offering free weekends and our beloved Starwood is not? I love Starwood, and I'm all about having cheery threads.

But, isn't this forum a place for discussions? Why is it proper to shut people off from discussing the lack of the return of a certain promotion? Even if William has stated Starwood's short term position? Isn't this a place to discuss things, both good and bad, not just to be cheery and to root for Starwood and to pop up a question for William and then the thread is done for once he answers? I mean William is great, but he's just one FlyerTalker like the rest of us, isn't he? Otherwise this is a customer service center and not a discussion forum.

Sorry to be so retentive. Don't mean to open a pandoras box or spread ill will to the moderators, who graciously volunteer their time. Just wondering.

Dude, the Starwood company rep said: "We are not bringing back the Free Weekends promotion anytime soon. End of story".

What is there to discuss other than whining/lamenting that they aren't coming back?

End of story = locked thread.

BTW, can someone lock this thread too?

We should be able to discuss our feelings. After all according to Lurker and 'Justin' it provides them valuable input and saves them countless dollars doing market research..

And skofarrell I didnt know u owned flyertalk... You could have been less rude

No intention to be rude. Sorry if it came off that way.

My point is that Starwood already knows that people loved the free friday/saturday promotion. My guess is that it wasn't that profitable OR they think the 20K promotion is going to generate more revenue for them.

Us complaining that we'd rather have free fri/sat is just not productive.

"End of Story" is "End of Story". Justin has left the building. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

You certainly perceive FT to be about something different than I do.

Who cares what Starwood says? Sure its great they participate in this forum. But you're saying if they say "that promotion is not coming back" that's the end of the discussion?

That is not the basis on which this discussion forum was founded. You seem to support this as a place where Starwood has the control & the last word on whether something is amenable to discussion or not. And, you don't care to hear the views of others (i.e. "would someone close this thread too.").

That closed-mindedness is what i was getting at. Its unfortunate that people feel that way on FT these days, and FT enabling so many moderators to at-whim shut off people's thoughts as they deem fit is troubling to me.

This place is turning more commercial, less grass roots. Bummer.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif I'm totally confused/lost. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

Do you think while Starwood is signing people up for 4 new, different promotions, they'd listen to us and bring back what could be an unprofitable promotion?

They know we like free fri/sat. A quick search shows 5 different free weekend threads in the last 90 days.

"The close this thread too" was a joke. I guess I should have added the dreaded smilie.

I'm basing my opinion on William's posts. He's been pretty clear that Free weekends aren't in the cards. I think (hope) he knows more than we do, My opinion is that the boat has sailed. I hope it will come back toward the end of the year, but I'm not holding my breath.



[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited 03-05-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by skofarrell:
Do you think while Starwood is signing people up for 4 new, different promotions, they'd listen to us and bring back what could be an unprofitable promotion?</font>

We're closer to understanding each other. The part I snipped from you above exactly illustrates my point. I'm here to have a broader discussion than merely influencing Starwood.

And I just was commenting, why do we have to close threads and stop such discussion? If your point is, close the thread because we have no chance of influencing Starwood because they've been so crystal clear we are not getting this promotion, okay, I understand you, but that's not the purpose of FlyerTalk as I understood it - that is - to influence the affinity providers.

It was this issue I was trying ot get at with my post.

While William say it isn't coming back and it may be unprofitable, Marriot is running it. So why are they taking the chance and starwood isn't.. Does marriot just want to lose $$$

No idea what Marriott (or Starwood) is up to profitability wise.

I think the 20K bonus is a nice program. I'm irritated that most of my travel is in the fall, and it is unlikely that I'll get it.

20k is nice but look as it as the free weekend.. 5 nites = 2 free weekends at most any property.. so 5 nites =20k pts.. much better in some regard then current promo

But you have to use up the free weekends in several months or loss it while you can keep the points as long as you like. Plus you can redeem weekday stay using points. Each has it good and bad and also depends on your travel patterns when the promotions is offered. Right now, I like the 20K-bonus better.

Wow. . .as the moderator who closed the original thread, please allow me to explain my thinking behind it.

First of all, I would NEVER discourage discussion at all. That is not the intent. I had a couple of FTers point out to me the thread and the question - could this be closed since there was no longer any point to the discussion. I read it and agreed since *wood stated that the discussion was "closed." I figured that for housekeeping purposes it didn't need to go on.

Secondly, the discussion is a valid one, but I have to agree with several of the posters here in that it has been discussed to death, *wood is well aware that we all want more promotions, etc. and that the Marriott one is a good promotion (although over on Marriott, they are having their own discussion).

Finally, I sincerely apologize if I have offended anybody with closing the thread or if you thought it was done in haste. However; my email is listed in my profile. If you have an issue, why not just email me directly? Others have before. With a compelling argument and agreement, the thread could be open again.

Ldsant
*wood Moderator

I personally agree with the original decision to close the other thread. As Starwood Lurker mentioned Free Weekends isn't coming back for a while. IMHO, leaving the thread open just leads to the issue being beat to death. Starwood has treated most of us very nicely and Starwood, nor the Lurker need to be objected to whining.

Marriott only offer free weekends for Cat 1-4 properties. Not very good in my book.

Ldsant, again, nothing personal on this. I did think of emailing you but I actually thought it would be more appropriate to voice my feelings publicly because this was a general thought, not a specific request to open that thread. In fact, I could care less about that particular thread.

I will say I have learned something about the state of FlyerTalk - or at least the state of some portion of the FT membership.

As skofarrel stated originally, and then kluau88 kind of hammered home by saying, in essence, "William does a great job, why should he have to read yet another thread bashing SPG?" (Frankly I agree that he is great and it is too bad that he has to read a whiny thread much less 20 of them), there are FT'ers in this forum who think that this forum exists to facilitate communications between SPG and SPG members, not to facilitate a dialouge between FT'ers themselves.

I'm just noting that because it was not my "feeling" about what FT was all about, and I guess FT has changed a lot in the several years I've been around. Even you, ldsant, mentioned that you closed the thread in part because William issued a definitive answer to the question of whether free weekends would be coming back soon. So as moderator, I was interested to note that you seem to support the paradigm shift to "this is a customer service forum" / "we are here to make things easier for William" / etc.

I just thought this was all interesting discussion in that, at least in my view, it absolutely represents a morph of the FT I came to know into "something else."

[This message has been edited by thesilb (edited 03-05-2003).]

I think the explanation is perfectly reasonable.

Honestly - I feel for moderators. One group complains about a low signal:noise ratio and how difficult it is to find stuff. When actions get taken, another group complains about it.

ldsant: I think you're doing a great job.

------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

thesilb makes a good point. If I choose to say the discussion is over as far as my participation is concerned, then it shouldn't mean that the discussion between all of you shouldn't continue. Sometimes the usefulnes of my input on certain things requires me to make that judgment call, but it shouldn't be a hindrance to further discussion by members of the forum.

Where it may become an issue for moderators is where I have to endure any personal abuse for being the voice of Starwood and Starwood Preferred Guest on the message board. I think I deserve the same protection as any of you in that regard, but sometimes I continue to be called out on things that I have already excused myself from commenting on further. And, that is the point where I'd like to see a moderator step in. Other than that, I can choose to post or not to post.

Sincerely,

William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Cast your vote! Visit www.freddieawards.com (http://www.freddieawards.com) and choose your favorite frequent travel programs today.

The definition of class.

I posted my disappointment with the closed threads in this forum over in "suggestions", see my post from 25 Feb in this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum73/HTML/000439.html

Yes, I think our new moderators are a bit overzealous in this forum, but on the other hand, I wouldn't want their job.

Please moderate with moderation.

Just because a topic has been discussed before or answered, does not make it a candidate for closure. There's lots of value for search results when the threads are kept around.

Now, when a thread ends up in personal attacks, sure close it. Or when a thread is posted in the wrong forum, feel free to move it.

BTW, IMHO, this thread should be moved elsewhere. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Feel free to move. Do not feel free to close it. Thank you.

-David

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Jon Toner:
I think the explanation is perfectly reasonable.

Honestly - I feel for moderators. One group complains about a low signal:noise ratio and how difficult it is to find stuff. When actions get taken, another group complains about it. </font>

Bingo!

And how many times must we ask Randy the same question(s) or make the same comment(s) in order to get the same answer. (Many) people asked for moderators. Randy appointed them. He seems happy with the results, and at least some people are. (At least one in any case &lt;--.)

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum73/HTML/000439.html

I've read every post on this thread, and am still where I was at the beginning:

The free weekend issue has been beaten to death. More then 6 threads in the last 90 days.

Starwood has officially stated that it ain't in the cards in the near future. They've come out with other promotions for this quarter.

I'm all for free discussion and against censorship, but on this topic, what more is there to discuss?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LIH Prem:
Yes, I think our new moderators are a bit overzealous in this forum

Please moderate with moderation.

Just because a topic has been discussed before or answered, does not make it a candidate for closure. There's lots of value for search results when the threads are kept around.

</font>

amen.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LIH Prem:


Yes, I think our new moderators are a bit overzealous in this forum, but on the other hand, I wouldn't want their job.

Please moderate with moderation.</font>


I could not agree more. I saw no reason to close this thread. Nor do I see any reason to close approximately 90% of the threads I've seen closed lately.

Ummmmm....


Skofarrell...

I don't give a flying F what you think has been discussed to death. This is an incredibly big brother-ish statement. Who are you to determine what is an approriate topic to discuss or not? Who died and made you are any other moderator God?


This is exactly what many of us predicted when moderators were introduced. It's sad.

I think FT is a MUCH less lively place or valuable resource than it used to be. Moderators (nobody in particular) are a big part of the reason I feel this way...

Watch, now, this thread will be locked and thesilb and I will be banned for daring to question the men or women behind the curtain. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ldsant:
I had a couple of FTers point out to me the thread and the question - could this be closed since there was no longer any point to the discussion</font>

Also, I'd appreciate knowing who these FTers are who are e-mailing moderators and encouraging them to close threads that everyone other than skofarrell and the moderator who closed it seems to think should not have been closed. Feel free to identify yourself here, and add to the debate. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

For the record, I did not, nor have I ever e-mail the moderators about closing a thread.

But, IMHO, the thread in question SHOULD have been closed. It was YET ANOTHER duplicate thread. How are we supposed to find any USEFUL information if the same topic is going to be posted to MULTIPLE threads?

Now, as for the Moderators:

The Moderators are performing their functions per RANDY'S guidance.

If you have a problem with the style of Moderation, you need to e-mail RANDY!!!!!!!!

Whining to the moderators, telling them how YOU want the moderation done is INSULTING to them and those of us who think they are doing a WONDERFUL job. And, IMHO insulting to Randy.

HOW MANY TIMES MUST RANDY STATE THAT HE IS HAPPY WITH THE MODERATION?

How was it a "YET ANOTHER duplicate thread." when it dealt with Marriot competiting with Starwood at its own promo that they don't want to bring back.. Some people may have not been aware and now they are that there are free weekends this summer.

Why is the fact there's one thread left open bothering a vocal minority. people can choose which threads to read

This forum is about STARWOOD.

The thread in question was about a MARRIOT promotion. IMHO, that is reason enough to close it.

It is also MHO, that the vocal minority is the group whining about the moderators.

BSF45, Thanks for your "flying "F".

FWIW, I was stating my opinion. It carries as much weight here as yours or anyone else's.

For the record, I'm not a moderator here, and have not been in touch with the moderators on the Starwood forum for this thread, the closed thread, or any other thread.

Dems the facts. "End of story".

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BoSoxFan45:
Ummmmm....

Skofarrell...

I don't give a flying F what you think . . .</font>

While this thread could have potentially served the purpose of some healthy dialogue, it has degraded into insults and personal attacks. It has outlived its useful life and is no longer serving a constructive purpose. I shall take the dare.

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Moderator for Starwood and America West