Starwood Preferred Guest - What other changes can we expect?

William has stated that more changes are coming, and my guess is that they won't be good.

So here are my guesses as to possible more changes:

1) Some hotels opt out of SPG. Not many, but the Lanesborough paved the path. Perhaps a few of the properties that haven't exactly been thrilled to be a part of SPG in the past (SR NYC, maybe) will no longer participate.

2) No free weekends this year. At all. It's an expensive program to run. I suspect it and the other great earning options will be replaced by a barrage of far less attractive programs with short earning windows. (see Big city bonus). This will enable Starwood to keep a straight face and say "See, look at all the promos we had this years".

3) Some airlines ending their relationship. Maybe the transfer bonus going away altogether.

Any other guesses? We need something to pass the time until we get notice (or stumble upon it) that the rules have already changed.

The Starwood Amex card, which has no annual fee will become "even better!"

Ooops! It's already been "improved" with the addition of the annual fee.

I could think of others changes, but do not wish to post them, lest we give new ideas to Starwood.

My concern is when SPG plans to announce the rest of the changes. I need to make a decision of what program I'm going to focus on in 2003 and I can't commit to a program when I don't know what the benefits are.

Maybe announcing the increased qualifications on Jan 5 isn't the biggest deal (again, just an issue of losing trust http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif), but what if the rest of the changes come on Feb 1?

All in all, I'm going to hesitate on relying to much on SPG in 2003. Still, I'd hate to start seeing the "Who's earning and Who's burning" threads start in this forum.

I would like to know if the other levels of hotels would be increased like 5 days before it happens instead of being told as it happen.. Just a wish :-)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BoSoxFan45:

1) Some hotels opt out of SPG. Not many, but the Lanesborough paved the path. Perhaps a few of the properties that haven't exactly been thrilled to be a part of SPG in the past (SR NYC, maybe) will no longer participate.
</font>

Already more than one property are not participating. This is from SPG Terms & Conditions (http://www.starwood.com/preferredguest/terms_conditions.html)

10. Non-participating Properties:

Pine Cliff(Algarve)Residences,Sheraton Abu Dhabi Hotel and Towers, Sheraton Catania Hotel, Sheraton Dammam Hotel & Towers, Sheraton Lagos Hotel & Towers, Sheraton Karachi Hotel and Towers and The Lanesborough, a St. Regis Hotel. All Starwood Vacation Ownership properties are considered non-participating in SPG.

[This message has been edited by maximizer (edited 01-09-2003).]

Based on William's statement regarding ongoing negotiations involving marketing partners, it seems like most pending changes would be related to non-stay earning and redemption opportunities.

On the positive side, SPG may
1. Add new earning and redemption partners.
2. More partner based promotions.

On the negative side(more probable),
1. Increased amount of Starpoints for miles redemption.(e.g. UA)
2. Loss of redemption partners.

FWIW, here is a comparison of HH and SPG that makes the above points clearer.

HH is very generous when it comes to earning points. If you look close enough, most of the 50K bonus promotions are partner based. (ERewards, DinersClub etc.) i.e. The cost of points awarded is shared with the partner. Incase of miles-&gt;points conversion, the airlines or CC companies are buying points from HH. Converting points back to miles is expensive. That minimizes the amount of miles HH has to buy from the airlines. Based on the above lopsided conversion rate, HH can afford to give Miles and Points for stays. Because of a large points float, it cannot give an Anytime/Anywhere option for redemption.

The bottomline is that HH is a net profit center for Hilton Corp. Even though it is generating traffic towards Hilton brands, the program is being tweaked to minimize profit drain. e.g. AA-&gt;HH conversion and 100K -&gt; 175K points increase for ALON. Hilton basically has the pricing power to decrease the revenue drain happening at its Hawaii properties due to the HH program and it has managed to effectively plug the only loose end in the program.

SPG program is a unique one in the hotel industry. Anytime/Anywhere, great points to miles ratio are some things that are not seen in any other program. Compared to HH, SPG is stingy when it comes to earning starpoints. The downside is that it limits the revenue it can earn by selling points to partners. On the upside, it is the single biggest factor that allows SPG to give an Anytime/Anywhere redemption option to its members.

SPG is like "Rapid Rewards" of the hotel industry. The paradox is that Hilton's business model relates more to SouthWest than any other major hotel chain.(More mid priced hotels in more out of the way places). When the economy was booming, SPG was extremely effective. With the current state of the economy, luxury hotel chains( Starwood) are getting hit the most.With decreasing revenue, maintaining a generous redemption program like SPG becomes harder as it costs money to maintain it. In the current environment, Starwood does not have the pricing power to maintain the current levels of SPG redemption and is forced to make the current changes.



[This message has been edited by Bourne (edited 01-09-2003).]

William-

In a separate thread, you categorically denied that SPG would be messing with suite upgrades for platinum members.

Could you categorically deny any of the above possibilities for the next year. It might make people feel a bit better?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BoSoxFan45:
William-

In a separate thread, you categorically denied that SPG would be messing with suite upgrades for platinum members.

Could you categorically deny any of the above possibilities for the next year. It might make people feel a bit better?

</font>

I can categorically deny that I know anything regarding any future changes to the program; however, I can categorically affirm that there will be some. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

So, no; I'm not going to comment on any suggestions that may have been made thus far. There is nothing that can be gained from speculation like this other than to drive me to drink and an early grave. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Specialist, E-Communications Department
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

William,

Can you at least request them to give you a definitive date by which they will make the complete rules for 2003 program made known? It is in Starwood's interest to do so since I am not making any more bookings with Starwood until I know what the program looks like for this year and I am sure I am not alone in this.

I cannot believe the marketing and program administration people are this callous towards their customers.

I was talking last week with the GM of the Westin I normally stay at. He mentioned that Starwood was "relaxing the standards" required of their hotels. That can't be a good thing.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by venk:
William,

Can you at least request them to give you a definitive date by which they will make the complete rules for 2003 program made known? It is in Starwood's interest to do so since I am not making any more bookings with Starwood until I know what the program looks like for this year and I am sure I am not alone in this.

I cannot believe the marketing and program administration people are this callous towards their customers.</font>

If I could do that, I wouldn't be working here. I think I'd be in Vegas performing with Siegfried and Roy. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Instead of looking at it as being callous toward our customers, why not look at it as none of the other decisions have been finalized and we can't tell you what hasn't been decided for that reason. I mean how cruel would that be...to tell you something was changing and then it didn't or that something wasn't going to change and then it did?

Please just try to exercise a little patience. When the announcements are ready to be handed out, they will be distributed to everyone. Hopefully, all at once and not piecemeal. That is like dying by the inch.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Specialist, E-Communications Department
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

although i am a big spg supporter and have pretty much stayed out of this recent unrest (point devaluation, bora bora, etc.), i do think its pretty pathetic that the rules governing the spg program for 2003 aren't in stone yet.

[This message has been edited by fly co to see the yanks (edited 01-10-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Starwood Lurker:
If I could do that, I wouldn't be working here. I think I'd be in Vegas performing with Siegfried and Roy. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
</font>

I would have hoped for a serious answer of the Starwood position to the specific question I asked.

By the above statement, I assume that Starwood program managers are not willing to commit to a date by which they will tell us the rules of the program for 2003, a year that has already started. Unless you tell me otherwise, I will take this as the official position of Starwood.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Instead of looking at it as being callous toward our customers, why not look at it as none of the other decisions have been finalized and we can't tell you what hasn't been decided for that reason. I mean how cruel would that be...to tell you something was changing and then it didn't or that something wasn't going to change and then it did?
</font>

Compared to how cruel it would be if we continued to patronize Starwood under existing rules and these rules were significantly changed midstream? That is the callous part.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
When the announcements are ready to be handed out, they will be distributed to everyone. Hopefully, all at once and not piecemeal.
</font>

Perhaps you misunderstood. I did not ask for the date you can give the first bit of information. I am not even asking Starwood to hurry it up although that would be nice. All I am asking for is the commitment to a date in the future by which all of the things are going to be finalized and told to us.

If Starwood cannot even commit to such a date, it appears that accountabilty is no longer part of the culture within Starwood. Since this is uncharacteristically different from the Starwood of the past, I must assume that there is a significant change in culture/circumstances within Starwood and therefore the unstated benefits and customer handling of the past that you keep alluding to in the past is no longer to be taken for granted. This is the conclusion any customer of ours will make about our business and so shouldn't be a surprise if your customers do.

I do understand that you are a messenger (and an advocate at times for the customers). But I really did want to confirm either that Starwood has no date in mind for releasing program change details or they do have one that they are willing to make public. That confirmation will very much determine the bookings that I have to do for the next few months. So this is not just idle talk or venting of frustrations on the message board. Thank you.

I think I made another mistake by answering at all.

Take whatever you want to as the official Starwood position. I don't have anything more to add. And, this time I'm not going to be baited into participating in any further speculation until I do.

Besides this, it's 5:36 on the east coast. There is no one in the corporate office to "commit" to a date of any kind.

Apparently what I have to say has no meaning any longer anyway. Want proof? Go to any of the Bora Bora threads and see where they continue to think that the rate is going to be honored.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Specialist, E-Communications Department
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

[This message has been edited by Starwood Lurker (edited 01-10-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Starwood Lurker:
Besides this, it's 5:36 on the east coast. There is no one in the corporate office to "commit" to a date of any kind.
</font>

Next week sometime would have been fine too. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

But don't bother. I should know better than to ask you anything in the frame of mind you are in.

I will consider staying at Starwood properties or participating in this board only after sanity returns back to the program. Good Bye and Good Luck.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by venk:

I will consider staying at Starwood properties or participating in this board only after sanity returns back to the program. Good Bye and Good Luck.</font>

Thank Goodness you will no longer be participating in this board or staying at SPG properties! I was afraid I would be behind you at check-in some time. How unpleasant would that be. By the way, I hear Motel 6 has a plan that would be a good fit for you.

I'm a supporter of adequate advance notice of SPG changes as much as the many posters urging it, but aren't many being too hard on Starwood Lurker and Starwood? William has made it clear in several posts there will be consideration if spg elites have been prejudiced by inadequate notice of changes. Isn't that fair, coupled with the loud and clear msg. which I'm sure has been heard in HQ that we strongly disfavor pop-up changes?

Seems to me that withdrawing bookings until every single possible change is made or not made to the program is extreme, as ANY program can change; and then try to deal with some of those other programs' customer service -- if you can find it.

If a decision to go to or away from Starwood is variable on every little detail or nuance or promotion, (i.e., is there a 500-pt. booking bonus this month, will there be free weekends in August, will I get a free stay free for every three in Belgravia?) is that a well-informed decision? We FTers should be concerned with our credibility as well as being concerned about Starwood's and if HQ reads some of the posts, it could well wonder if FT as an institution warrants a lot of weight for its collective opinions.

[This message has been edited by Ocn Vw 1K (edited 01-10-2003).]

venk and others,

I normally do not participate in the arguments that take place on this board. I choose to use it to learn from other's experiences and to share my own when I have something relevant to say.

While I believe that everyone on this forum is entitled to their own opinion and to use the forum as it best suits them, I would respectfully ask that you stop your assault on William. I find William's presence on this forum invaluable. The fact that Starwood has an official representative here who goes the extra mile to listen and provide timely responses to our small and not so small questions, requests, complaints, tirades, etc. is one of the main reasons that I am a frequent visitor to the forum.

Over the past few weeks, I have noticed a change in the general tone of the board, and I fear that if it goes too far, Starwood might choose to withdraw from participating in the forum. I don’t think anyone should be denied from expressing feelings or opinions, but it would be nice if we could make the Starwood less confrontational.

Respectfully,
edg1

Ocn & Edg,
I agree whole heartedly. I am ashamed of some of the ill tempered comments directed at William and appologize to him for coments made by those folks. Most of us are extremely grateful for the way he bends over backward to help solve our problems.

venk,

Your various above comments are not being fair to William.

Dan

And it's comments like that, that have chased away other 'valued' employees from the United board.

So please refrain from biting the hand...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by edg1:
While I believe that everyone on this forum is entitled to their own opinion and to use the forum as it best suits them, I would respectfully ask that you stop your assault on William. I find William's presence on this forum invaluable. The fact that Starwood has an official representative here who goes the extra mile to listen and provide timely responses to our small and not so small questions, requests, complaints, tirades, etc. is one of the main reasons that I am a frequent visitor to the forum.</font>

Ditto what edg1 said.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Over the past few weeks, I have noticed a change in the general tone of the board, and I fear that if it goes too far, Starwood might choose to withdraw from participating in the forum. I don’t think anyone should be denied from expressing feelings or opinions, but it would be nice if we could make the Starwood less confrontational.</font>

Double ditto.

William has provided an invaluable asset to us. Most of the airlines and hotel companies have chosen not to have an official or semi-official rep in their respective FlyerTalk forums, but Starwood has.

Not only does William provide general information and certain "insider's tips" about SPG, and not only does he provide us a direct conduit back up the chain of command at SPG, but he has taken the initiative to resolve countless situations of individual SPG members that have come to his attention in this forum. Could we ask for anything more?

It certainly isn't his fault that these changes have been made. And, he's not in the PR department, he's not a decision-maker, so to challenge him to make an official statement of policy or you'll interpret a lack of response as a pre-defined default policy of your choosing is on the face of it unreasonable and unfair.

Let's all show a little bit more civility, especially to William and the position he finds himself in. 'Nuff said.

William, I'm sure, knows that I like him a lot and value his presence here.

Just because we like him and think he does a yeoman's job does not mean that this board should turn into a kiss SPG's a$$ no matter what they do session, and it sure seems like that's what some people here would prefer.

I think that the way the point devaluation change was implemeted and communicated was, shall I say, far from ideal.

It appears more changes are coming, and who knows whether they will be retroactive or what. In challenging SPG, I'm not challenging or critcizing William, and I'm sure he's smart enough to know the difference.

Let's not make it so Randy has to change this forum's title to the : Starwood does Everything Right Forum.

That is, unless they do everything right, which they haven't recently.

I really didn't want to post this but I couldn't stand everyone knee-jerking. So, against my better judgment, my really last post to explain myself. Feel free to use me as a punch bag if it makes you feel better.

I assumed William was the conduit to Starwood/SPG management to get the official word from them and not an official spokesman himself. So my very basic question was

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
William,
Can you at least request them to give you a definitive date by which they will make the complete rules for 2003 program made known?
</font>

Note the phrase "request them to give you". This is not asking William to make an official statement. This is no different from the kind of things what people have asked him before.

I would have expected him to either say that they are not willing to give him a date to announce or as I hoped he would CONVEY a date that was far enough to ensure that they could get everything settled on which I could make my decisions.

To this he replied

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
If I could do that, I wouldn't be working here. I think I'd be in Vegas performing with Siegfried and Roy.
</font>

Frankly, this pissed me off at first. I know that he was trying to make a joke. But I was asking a serious question. Am I to interpret this to mean that he had to be a magician to ask them the question I had asked? That would be absurd. So I assumed the only other interpretation which is that he felt there was no chance that he could get an answer out of them for what I had asked. Based on this interpretation I said

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
By the above statement, I assume that Starwood program managers are not willing to commit to a date by which they will tell us the rules of the program for 2003, a year that has already started. Unless you tell me otherwise, I will take this as the official position of Starwood.
</font>

I have made no claim above that he needs to make an official statement or commit to a date. Just gave him a chance to clarify if that is not what he had meant.

In the same post, he had said
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
When the announcements are ready to be handed out, they will be distributed to everyone. Hopefully, all at once and not piecemeal. That is like dying by the inch.
</font>

I assumed that he had misunderstood since I had not asked him to enquire about the earliest date for any information, just the date by when we can expect the full information to be known. So I clarified

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Perhaps you misunderstood. I did not ask for the date you can give the first bit of information. I am not even asking Starwood to hurry it up although that would be nice. All I am asking for is the commitment to a date in the future by which all of the things are going to be finalized and told to us.
</font>
Again this is in the context of William asking Starwood/SPG managers to provide the date not for him to personally conjure up one.

To this he replied
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
I think I made another mistake by answering at all.
</font>

I must say this disappointed me a lot. I was still expecting a reasonable answer to my query.

Presumably he realized it because he edited the post and added

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Besides this, it's 5:36 on the east coast. There is no one in the corporate office to "commit" to a date of any kind.
</font>

Now this did piss me off a bit again. Why would anyone expect that I would want the answer today? If he was interested in responding helpfully to this, a simple "will enquire and get back to you" as he usually does would have been sufficient.

My only take at this point was that he was knee-jerking to my questions and I did actually feel that the events of the last few days like the Bora Bora incident that he mentioned in his response was not making him conducive to relevant answers. Which led to my final statement.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Next week sometime would have been fine too.

But don't bother. I should know better than to ask you anything in the frame of mind you are in.
</font>

I have been a big cheerleader of SPG for a while now even to the annoyance of some people over at HH. I have expressed my views on the side of Starwood in the Bora Bora incident. I have constructively tried to point out what Starwood could have done better in communications in a non-adversarial way (parallel universe post) although some people knee-jerked again to that post.

So with that as the background, I just didn't care for the answers William gave in this thread and decided I had enough.

Could we all have communicated better? perhaps. During normal times, I doubt there would have been these kinds of gross misunderstanding. But these are not normal times which is why I would rather come back when the mood is saner and people are not knee-jerking to each other.

My sincere apologies to William if he truly misunderstood my intent. I had no intention of trapping him into anthing.

With that my FINAL good bye to this board.

If anyone really wants to help this board, I suggest not knee-jerking to this post or better to any other post. That will bring down the level of hostility quite a bit.

Cheers

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starwood Lurker:
[B]Besides this, it's 5:36 on the east coast. There is no one in the corporate office to "commit" to a date of any kind.

Perhaps if Justin, the marketing intern, or anyone else at corporate would dare work past 5:36, these changes could have been announced and implemented in a fair and just manner months ago.

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"You continue to persist with the silliness"

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starwood Lurker:
[B] If I could do that, I wouldn't be working here. I think I'd be in Vegas performing with Siegfried and Roy. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Perhaps it is Siegfried and Roy who made a great guest program disappear!!!!

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"You continue to persist with the silliness"

I agree with BoSoxFan45 that this forum should not be a place to kiss Starwood's a$$. I further agree that the lack of notice for program changes is an egregious error on Starwood's part. That said, I really value the fact that we can express our displeasure and know that we will receive a timely response (even if we don't like the message). The intent of my previous post was to ask that we keep it more discussion based and less confrontational. If we don't like Starwood's changes, and feel that our program needs are not being addressed, we can walk with our $$. I feel we should refrain from actions that might give SW cause to shut down an information / customer service outlet that is somewhat unique and extremely highly valued by many of us.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JLL5100:
Thank Goodness you will no longer be participating in this board or staying at SPG properties! I was afraid I would be behind you at check-in some time. How unpleasant would that be. By the way, I hear Motel 6 has a plan that would be a good fit for you.</font>

No need for personal attacks here.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mystara:
No need for personal attacks here.</font>

You are absolutely right, mystara.
I was caught up in the tone of the thread and should have kept my thoughts to my self. Sorry.. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

As consumers, we have the right to question policies and practices that seem "unjust and unfair" to us. Customers are the greatest stakeholder; without them, there is no business. There is a plethora of businesses that have "gone under" because they did not listen to and were not responsive to customer demands. I might suggest that if we are really important to Starwood, that we be given "some" notice before the next changes are made. A lot of business decisions can be made quite simply if the "Golden Rule" is followed.