Starwood Preferred Guest - Sheraton Bal Harbor or Mandarin Oriental Miami?

Sorry for the dumb question. We've reserved rooms at the Sheraton BH for 3 nights next week (basic room, as I'm hoping for an UG as a Plat).

Just spotted a great (corporate) rate at the much newer Mandarin Oriental, which is less than what we're paying at the Sheraton.

My question is: has anyone stayed at the Mandarin, and can they tell me how business-oriented it is? We're there on vacation and prefer the location of the Sheraton but the amenities of the Manadarin, plus the appeal of a much newer hotel, are hard to ignore.

Any information gratefully received.

IMHO for holiday purposes Bal Harbour Resort is better, being on the beach and having a top pool area. Plus you have the Bal Harbour shopping centre on the other side of the street and the Aventura Mall only 10 min away.
The Mandarin is newer, more top notch, also on the water (to all sides, allmost),but more downtown.
Obviously no SPG points at the Mandarin either!

AndrewC,
Do you mind sharing information about your rate - how much, what are the dates, and how do you get it? I am going to Miami in March and the Mandarin looks very nice.

It's a negotiated rate with my company - not that great, but this is high season. Think it's $230 a night plus tax. The Sheraton was $239.

Is the upgrade record for Plats at the Bal Harbor good?

Yes, I agree that new hotels are hard to ignore. For certain though, the Sheraton is much more of a vacation property. Directly on the beach, lagoon style pool, etc. Funny thing is that the pool is not heated, if that bothers you. (Us Floridians would never swim in an unheated pool in March!) It should be quite warm though in March. Location is nice with the Bal Harbour shops across the street, but they are very, very expensive stores.

Mandarin is a business property. Obviously quite deluxe, but not on a beach. On the bay, but no beach. Not much really around there but lots of international banks, and a few good restaurants. It is close to Coconut Grove, and Key Biscayne, which are nice tourist areas. (be careful in Coconut Grove at night). Also near downtown Miami, but not a whole lot there other than Bayside.

AndrewC: I am certainly a bit biased, but I wholeheartedly recommend the Sheraton Bal Harbour over the Mandarin. Mandarin is, indeed, a fine new property. However, as many have already noted, we at the Sheraton are directly on the ocean, have an amazing lagoon style pool, and are directly across the street from world class shopping. On top of that, over the past few months we've undertaken major efforts to refine our already high service standards. Come stay with us--you won't be disappointed! And feel free to drop me a line if I can be of any assistance.

Sincerely,

Jim McKenna
Director of Six Sigma, Black Belt
Sheraton Bal Harbour Beach Resort
Bal Harbour, FL 33154
jim_mckenna@sheraton.com

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[This message has been edited by Canista (edited 11-12-2002).]

I'm persuaded! Just hope the water in the pool isn't too cold.

A dissent:

The Bal Harbour is, indeed, a nice enough hotel, and it is, indeed, on a nice enough beach.

But the Bal Harbour shopping mall across the street is the snootiest, most unpleasant place that I have ever shopped. Now I have no problem with places selling top-quality and top-price merchandise, but every store, every salesperson, and every customer seems compelled to put on airs, as if that somehow adds to the cachet.

I drive a bmw (only a 3 series, so shoot me), fly in 1st way more than anywhere else and almost never have my travel paid for by my business, usually stay in 4 Seasons and Shangri-La hotels, and enjoy buying nice trinkets. But I everything about the Bal Harbour shops offends me; I find it a horrid place to shop.

And there's not a whole lot else that's interesting within walking distance of the Sheraton.

Another dissent here (sorry wideman): while I certainly do not defend any snooty behavior that goes on at the shops across the street from us, you have to admit that aesthetically, it is a lovely place to shop--open air ritzy shopping mall, pleasant waterfalls and fountains, etc.

As for nothing else within walking distance of the hotel, again I have to disagree. Take dining options: in addition to our own restaurants at the resort, within a 2 block radius of us there are almost a dozen different restaurants ranging from Japanese, seafood, high end Italian, Kosher Italian, a 60s style soda fountain shop...

Finally, rest assured that our pool is NOT cold! Contrary to the prior comment, our 260,000-gallon pool is heated to a comfortable 84 degrees Fahrenheit year round. (And the two Jacuzzis are set at a toasty 102 degrees!)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by wideman:
Now I have no problem with places selling top-quality and top-price merchandise, but every store, every salesperson, and every customer seems compelled to put on airs, as if that somehow adds to the cachet.</font>

Never having been to Bal Harbor, I can't comment on these stores, but I have to agree with Wideman that this theme is something that is becoming more and more common in various places.

In high-end stores, restaraunts, and hotels, there is a PHENOMENAL contrast between those that make the experience a pleasure and those to which I will never return. Some places believe that snootiness is part of the "luxury experience" -ie., you should be grateful for being there- while others beleive that the customer is king/queen, and put on no airs- they simply do their best to provide superlative service to everyone.

This contrast is visible in Starwood hotels. For example, the St. Regis Monarch Beach falls in to the first category, while the St. Regis LA fall into the first.

I can not say this with enough inflection: Lexury does NOT mean a snooty attitude. Snootiness is unpleasant - always!

If confronted with snooty shop assistants, I normally find that a retort like "Drop the attitude - you only work in a shop" works like a treat.

We have stayed in the area around Bal Harbor many times due to its proximity to our favorite beach - Haulover. We usually opt for something less expensive than the Sheraton. However, a bunch of people from my office, including my wife, stayed at the Sheraton for a conference last year. They enjoyed their stays and several Golds were upgraded to larger rooms.

My wife returned from her first and only Bal Harbor shopping mall experience making derogatory remarks about the "trophy wives" she saw there.



[This message has been edited by dhacker (edited 02-06-2002).]

Stayed at the Sheraton in mid-December. Had an enjoyable stay. As a platinum was upgraded to a very nice ocean-front 2 room suite, but had to ask about suite upgrade before was offered the room. The hotel was really slow as the tourist season hadn't quite kicked in yet.

As for the shops across the street, walked around a little but definitely not my style, although I highly recommend the Italian restaurant Carpacio in the mall. The food was excellent!

Enjoy your stay!

Re:
"Finally, rest assured that our pool is NOT cold! Contrary to the prior comment, our 260,000-gallon pool is heated to a comfortable 84 degrees Fahrenheit year round. (And the two Jacuzzis are set at a toasty 102 degrees!)"

I hate to disagree, but I had reservations for this hotel, this past January (2002). When confirming my reservaiton with the hotel directly, I asked the nice reservation agent to verify that the pool was heated. He said no, and I asked if he could double check. He came back, and said again, no, it is not heated. I was quite surprised, and decided to call back a few hours later and pose the same question. I asked to speak to the concierge, and he also, without hestiation, said that the pool was NOT heated.
I expressed some surprise, and he even told me that the guest rooms are not heated (not really a big deal in South Florida, but a little surprising). Also, if you check the Starwood webpage for the Bal Harbor Sheraton, it does not say it offers a heated pool, as in contrast to the lising for the Shearaton El Conquistador, which clearly says Outdoor Heated Pool. Not to disparage the hotel-it is really beautiful, but I cannot belive that it is heated to 84 year round. If so, they should inform the concierge, and their sales staff, and the Starwood people who do the webpages.

And yes, the Bal Harbor Shops are almost snooty beyond tolerance, but again, it is a beautiful place.

(Would still choose the Sheraton)

Extwa: thanks for the heads up on this. Sorry for the miscommunication you received from some of the staff, but the pool truly is heated (I can show you the utility bills as proof!). I appreciate your comments, as we are taking this opportunity to better inform our staff. Regarding updating the website info, we have also put through the correction ("Outdoor heated pool") as of today; may take a few days for the update to show. Thanks again.

Hhhmmmmmmmm. Now if I can only get the 700+ other hotels to do things like this...

Thanks, Jim. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Specialist, E-Communications Department
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

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Dear JimAtTheBeach,

I find it an exceptionally pleasant sign to see how you worded the answer with regards to your hotel as opposed to the Mandarian.

You were very diplomatic and noble in your response and I find it nice to see how we here as frequent travellers view your hotel and how you seem really interested in making sure that your service is top notch.

A quick question though, what type of upgrades do you give SPG Platinums and how is your pool different than the Fountainbleaus.

Many Thanks

Travelrules: many thanks for those kind words! To answer your question, at our property our Platinum SPG guests get upgraded to either a Garden Villa Suite or an Ocean Front Suite, based upon availability. In addition, they have a choice of amenities upon check in, either 1) 500 SPG points; 2) $10 food & beverage credit; 3) A free in-room move; 4) Beer & popcorn in their room; 5) Specialty fruit amenity. Also, Platinum members (like Gold) earn 3 Starpoints per USD.

As for the pool at the Fontainebleau compared to ours, they are similar in many ways. They're both very large, free form, lagoon style. However, ours is actually two separate pools (a waterfall & waterslide empty into one, and then the larger, meandering pool continues as a separate one). I believe the Fontainebleau also has a waterslide in their kids’ pool. Not sure if their pool is heated though... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

(A little trivia for you about Sheraton Bal Harbour and the Fontainebleau: both were actually designed by the same architect (Morris Lapidus). F'Bleau was built in 1954, Bal Harbour (originally known as the Americana) was built in 1955/56. Lapidus also designed the Eden Roc hotel, as well as Lincoln Road down in South Beach.)

This may seem a little unfair as I have not stayed at The Sheraton Bal Harbor Hotel.I came very close recently but instead opted for the New Marriott South Beach with ocean front rooms and a W like plus decor & ambience. Property has Good food and a hotel really working for the Platinum Elites for premimum rooms.
Have toured the Sheraton Bal Harbor in the past and it is an exceptional property with a very kind staff.The accomodations are a bit mixed old and new.Maybe this has changed .All so mixed reports on upgrade treatment.This may be a demand problem more then a management issue of blocking rooms.The day I toured I was shown a small variety of guest rooms & possible suite option for Platinums with spectacular ocean views and equally amazing set up of bedroom and living room.Its very difficult to say how lucky one would be to get that exceptional treatment on a consistent basis especially in season!!.Let alone out.
The Marriott has excelled in this arena.And has won my recent business.
Might beat down a path away from the competition if I knew that the treatment @ the Sheraton was that consistent.The grounds are highly attractive and across the street from the upscale Bal Harbor Mall
which has very nice shopping and dining options.Have had very nice customer service at the Sacks 5th Avenue and enjoyed dining there in the mall as well.Its great you don't need a car to get there either if staying at the Sheraton.Lets look at the bright side!
Back to the posters original question. About The Mandarin Oriental I recently stayed as a paying guest. However was on Vip status because they new in advance(conceirge tipped them off after a phone call with him before my arrival) that I am on the board of a business travel publication so I obviously saw a property the way most guests paying a discounted rate of $159 a nite would not see.My call to him was in no way to influence him for an upgrade nor was I thinking about doing so. Was merely asking questions for my touring in the area.Was grateful for the experience.Took some great photos.
My upgraded suite accomodations was outstanding make that breathtaking and it ranks amongst the finast accomodations in all of Southern Florida hands down.
Make that pretty up there within the country for that matter.
Would compare it to a private luxury condo experience with premimum deluxe everything!!!
Great first class staff and world class presentation.
The down side was food service in a highly attractive setting but poorly laid out restaraunt.Designed by a Legendary restaraunt designer.Traffic flow is not his expertise apparently.
Waiters tripping over each other .Guests tripping over the servers ,then clashing with hosts.Made even worse of a nightmare with the restaraunt in the morning and its help your self breakfast buffet with guests running back and fouth with plates in their hands!! Guest service in the restaraunt itself was appalling. The server had trouble with English and any kindness or communication taking my order.It started with bad baking.An overpriced bottle (they are entitled) of large Pellingrio Water served warm with no Ice and a search for the server who was running outside to the stunning patio to help other guests.The food itself poor amongst the worst plate of food I have seen in any caliber of hotel or restaraunt (chains do better) in the country and a disgrace for a hotel like that of excellence.Please be advised this took place in the casual restaraunt.Not the upscale dinner restaraunt( that has a solid word of mouth) that was closed during my visit.Produce at breakfast was highly satisfactory baking was not a complete mystery because this is a stegnth of some of the other Mandarin properties in New York and San Francisco where even Martha Stewart Stays!One final note Mandarin has no loyalty program and no upgrade policy except to pay fully for your preferred accomodation.They also let me know I was not worthy of miles (500) during my stay because I had not paid one of their more expensive rates.5 bucks worth of points maybe
after killing me with good lodging hospitality.Go figure????!!!Maybe one day they will wake up on that note.Even Hilton did in April of 2000 long overdue.As they say better late then never!!!

------------------
AA & Starwood,Marriott Platinum
Diamond Hyatt, Hilton Diamond
Club swiss Gold Radisson Elite
U/A 1 K


[This message has been edited by 777 global mile hound (edited 02-08-2002).]

Well I'm looking forward to arriving at the Sheraton Bal Harbour tomorrow!!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dhacker:

My wife returned from her first and only Bal Harbor shopping mall experience making derogatory remarks about the "trophy wives" she saw there.

[This message has been edited by dhacker (edited 02-06-2002).]</font>

I want to go there.

Andrew C Look foward to a complete trip report when you get back if you would be so kind.Would be interested in staying there myself. Have a great stay And happy safe travels
Cheers!

Let me say - the Sheraton is a GREAT property! We're checking out tomorrow and we're already looking forward to coming back.

We were a little worried that the property isn't closer to South Beach. However, it's only a 10 minute drive (past some GREAT boats, all moored ahead of this week's Miami boat show) into town.

And the Bal Harbour shops are a little upscale, but we didn't find them snooty. Maybe it's the British accent which stops the shop assistants from turning on the "attitude"!

Overall, we are very pleased we stuck with the Sheraton. Probably the best *wood property (other than the W and Lux Collection) I've stayed at.

Very nice property with a generous upgrade. Generous platinum amenity the last time I stayed (under the old freeform policy) -- I would give up the 500 points to get that amenity.

Mandarin Miami: Pros: recently opened; trendy clients; awesome bathrooms with views to bay; great concierge (scored us a same day Saturday night “accommodation" for four at Joe’s Stone Crab); good room service food; nicely furnished; easy to get to. Cons: expensive; trendy clients; still awaiting AA points (after two phone calls to hotel); isolated location; expensive and slow valet parking

Sheraton Bal Harbor: Pros: Starwood Program; recently remodeled rooms; great pool; on the beach; Bal Harbor Shops. Cons: expensive; big conference type resort hotel; mediocre food; fifteen minutes to the highway through okay streets; $12 “resort charge” which covers faxes (?) and use of a hard beach chair that requires an additional cushion that will cost you $5 to rent.

Bal Harbor by a nose.

That's harsh. I thought Bal Harbour was a good property.

Anyway, I took the advice of others on the flyertalk boards and tried out the Diplomat in Hollywood, FL. Believe me, it's really not as good as the Sheraton, or any other hotel close to Miami. We're in our mid-30s and we're proably 20 years younger than all the other guests in the hotel. We're in the country club, rather than the towers, but it still strikes me as an old peoples' kinda place. The public rooms are gloomy - no other word for it - although the staff are very friendly.

Harsh? Sheraton Bal Harbor is a very good property but so is the Miami Mandarin.

Also worth a stay is the new Ritz Carlton in Key Biscayne atlhough the food and pool are on par and sub par with the S.B.H. We were upgraded to large room with a full kitchen and seperate living/dining room. I was later told that the Ritz was selling similar units for about $900k.

And while I'm giving my unsolicted opinons about Miami beach resorts thumbs down to the Miami Beach Lowes. The hotel is perpendicular to the beach and our "upgraded" room was so small that the Dr.Seuss style furniture barely fit the room.