Starwood Preferred Guest - FAQ: How much is a starpoint worth?

The 500 point booking bonus starts today, and I have several reservations booked previous to 8/15. The current rates on some of the exact same dates are $10 and $20 higher. What IS the value of a Starpoint, and is it worth it to pay $10 or $20 more for the 500 bonus points?

The value depends on what you use the points for. Do you use them for hotel stays, airline mile upgrades, airline miles for RT awards, or something else?

I use them for hotel stays, and I use my successful Priceline bids as an indicator of what the points are worth. I would not spend $20 for 500 points, and maybe even not $10, but that is my estimate.

The maximum? Something like this....
A week in prime season at the Westin PV ($360 a night plus taxes) uses 4000 a night for five nights and 3000 a night for 2 weekend nights for a total of 24,000 points.
24,000 points then equals roughly $2500, or about 11 or twelve cents each. Therefore, the maximum value of 500 points is about $55. Now, would I pay an extra $50 for 500 miles,? Of course not. But would I pay $20 more- probably.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BoSoxFan45:
The maximum? Something like this....
A week in prime season at the Westin PV ($360 a night plus taxes) uses 4000 a night for five nights and 3000 a night for 2 weekend nights for a total of 24,000 points.
24,000 points then equals roughly $2500, or about 11 or twelve cents each. Therefore, the maximum value of 500 points is about $55. Now, would I pay an extra $50 for 500 miles,? Of course not. But would I pay $20 more- probably.</font>

Math correction:
5*4000+2*3000=26000
2520/26000=+/-9 cents

Please forgive my stupid error. I've been dealing with accounting issues for the last 2 days and my brain is fried so far as numbers are concerned. It was fried as to other things for a while. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Another real life example - I'm using free weekend at St Regis Washington Category 5, 10,000-14,000 points per night (if I was using points). I just checked on the Starwood site what the rate would have been - $179/night plus taxes, so about 2 cents per point.

That's why timing is everything when using points. That's in large part wh Starwood's no blackouts policy is great and why its points can be worth much more than other travel "currency".

Starwood also has "no capacity controls" in addition to "no blackout dates". I agree that this makes Starwood points far more useful than the points of other chains.

I still think that successful Priceline bids provide a better estimate for the worth of the points, rather than the quoted price on the hotel web sites.

100 points = $2.50
1000 points = $25.00

The way I figure it 20,000 points = 25,000 airline miles. And 25,000 miles = $500. at 2 cents per mile.

And if I can borrow from a competitor...Williams help is Priceless! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Dan

40,000 points = 5 nights at a category 4 hotel. This would be worth $250-300/night or $1250-$1500. 1250/40,000= $3.12/100 points or 3 cents a point.

I checked the rate for next Saturday at the Four Points LAX (Cat 1) which would require 2000 starpoints. The lowest rate on Travelweb is $79+tax. That would equate to roughly 4 cents/starpoint.

The value of Starpoints has a person-specific valuation.

I've redeemed for a value of 3.3¢ per point and I have redeemed for a value of 7¢ per point.

While I have redeemed higher also (like 12¢ per point) it doesn't count because I would never have paid the 600$ per night for that property anyways. So, it's NOT like I am SAVING THAT MONEY SPENT.

When thinking these promotions through the median (usual) value that I receive (and save in money) is 5¢ per Starpoint.

For comparison purposes my valuation for Hilton points is 0.0135, therefore 1851 Hilton points are equal to 500 Starpoints. So for example if Hilton were still offering the double miles/points promo for a 100$ stay, I would receive 1000 bonus Hilton points (plus the 1000 regular) plus 250 bonus airline miles (plus the 250 regular ones). So, 1000 Hilton pts at 0.0135 x 1000 = 13.50$ and 250 airline miles at 0.05 x 250 = 5$ therefore a total of 18.50$ worth of point benefits. Well, Starwood's 500 bonus points for that same 100$ stay would equal benefit me 25$ (500 x 0.05). So Starwood is the better deal still.

------------------
Got points ? Got smiles !

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sheetz:
I checked the rate for next Saturday at the Four Points LAX (Cat 1) which would require 2000 starpoints. The lowest rate on Travelweb is $79+tax. That would equate to roughly 4 cents/starpoint.</font>

I checked on http://pub4.ezboard.com/fpricelineandexpediabiddinglosangelesareadisneylan d for Priceline bids for LAX. Here are the results:

4Star Westin Lax $40 8/11/12/2001
LAX Marriott 8/10-8/11 $33+5 - 2 rooms
2* LAX Homestead Village Studio Hotel, $25+$5 Bonus
3* LAX Marriott $33 + $5 Bonus 8/14-8/15
2 1/2* LAX Hilton Garden Hotel, $28+ $5 Bonus 8/3
3* LAX Marriott $33+5 10/3-4

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Stephen loves Starwood:
For comparison purposes my valuation for Hilton points is 0.0135, therefore 1851 Hilton points are equal to 500 Starpoints. So for example if Hilton were still offering the double miles/points promo for a 100$ stay, I would receive 1000 bonus Hilton points (plus the 1000 regular) plus 250 bonus airline miles (plus the 250 regular ones). So, 1000 Hilton pts at 0.0135 x 1000 = 13.50$ and 250 airline miles at 0.05 x 250 = 5$ therefore a total of 18.50$ worth of point benefits. Well, Starwood's 500 bonus points for that same 100$ stay would equal benefit me 25$ (500 x 0.05). So Starwood is the better deal still.

</font>

For Hilton double miles/pts promotion, $100 spent gives 1000 points *2 (doubled), 250 airline partner points (these are not doubled), and 500 miles * 2 (doubled). So a regular member would get 2250 points and 1000 miles. VIP members also get a VIP bonus (which is also not doubled).

Starpoints: 2 cents each
Marriot Rewards points: 1 cent each
Hilton Honors points: 0.75 cents each

My math skills are nil but my next few reservations, at any $ rate, are gonna garner considerably more than you're mentioning here...

First, an unlimited number of 500 point bonuses for booking on the web. I'll miss my concierge, but I love them points. It's not like they're gonna stop taking our calls...

The new Starwood Optima (free for year one) nets you something like 6,000 Starpoints over 10 or 11 stays and most if not all of us here in Platinum are on increased stay challenges which add 1000 points to each of the first 20 stays. The Optima bonus points for July posted on 8/15.

The fact that each of my next 10 stays, from the $49 nights in a Four Points in Tucson to a week at the St Regis in New York (truly, folks, life as it should be lived) adds at least 2000 Starpoints means a bigger balance and renewed status faster - worth more to me than all the points - just makes it sweeter.

Not to mention that Starpoints to airline miles are worth 20 or 25% more by conversion(told ya I couldn't do the math) is amazing.

There's nobody better than Starwood in terms of awards and few chains better in terms of hotels. And William answers our truly arcane hair-splitting questions with dispatch, accuracy and good grace.

Who could ask for more?



[This message has been edited by Bostom (edited 08-16-2001).]

On the rare occasions when I've redeemed Starpoints, the would-have-spent-it-otherwise monetary value translated to more than 2 cents each, & for various reasons, including:

1) I wouldn't have it any other way! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Seriously, I think I have an "allergy" to using them if the value is less than 2 cents each--& I'll explore options involving (among other things) a paid stay w/ a 50% off rack rate award vs. free if the per point spent value is greater (taking into account, as well, for such a circumstance, the NET per point value, as well [i.e. knowing that Starpoints would be earned for such a stay]). Let's face it, Starpoints are not the easiest "currency" to come by...I'll explore the various options & associated "exchange rates" before spending Starpoints...

2) the going rate was near rack rate due to capacity (& thus the award stay value was higher than it otherwise would have been--this is particularly useful if having to make last minute plans which involve a stay @ a popular destination...although I would avoid paying rack rate if possible, & might not otherwise stay @ a particular property because of it, use of Starpoints would allow staying @ said property without paying rack rate, & the resulting per Starpoint redemption value is technically higher than it otherwise would be [& Starpoints would effectively make a stay @ the property "affordable" (for the given timeframe)--the tangible benefits to such are difficult to put a price on, particularly if the property's location allows for mitigation of inconvenience, etc.]).


In addition, redeeming such that one goes for the "4 free nights @ a Category 3 or higher, get the 5th night free" award option (one of the more lucrative redemption options, & one whose value varies depending on property & season [of course]) can have serious "bang for the point" potential.


A bottom line reality, however, is that the tangible value of being able to redeem the points @ all--wherever, whenever--is a priceless factor that makes an absolute value calculation difficult to quantify.

After my last Hilton stay--which involved a horribly botched award stay (no-can-do @ the properties desired, & ultimately involved wrong properties, wrong nights, you name it)--I can say that putting a price on suffering a trip "to hell & back" due, ultimately, to capacity controls & blackout dates (if I could have stayed @ the property of my choice--which DID have rooms available, I have no doubt that the trip would have turned out quite differently...), is, as well, "priceless"--but w/ a big, fat negative sign in front of it.

No capacity controls + no blackout dates is not only fantastic, it also has interesting associated qualities of "feeling" as though it's both principled -&- a luxury...it seems like another way to spell F-A-I-R, C-O-N-V-E-N-I-E-N-T, & R-O-C-K-S... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


Lastly, if I were to estimate Starpoint valuation "as" airline miles (i.e. if converted to such), it would have to have an "asterisk" associated w/ such, because I would restrict my valuation to value-per-point/mile if used for an International, Business Class award flight--& the per point/mile valuation varies, of course, depending on route & season, but it is inevitably greater than 2 cents per.

[This message has been edited by ILTE_Miles (edited 08-16-2001).]

I agree that you can't value StarPoints based on their airline mile conversion, even though it is very favorable. Any time you convert, there is a discounting of the value of the points. Even with the discounting, you get a value of 2 cents per point. Also, you can't use Priceline bids as the price. If you can get into a room for $40 per night, don't use Starpoints, pay to stay. You get Starpoints when you book thru Priceline (Maybe the Amex bonus too?). Booking a regular low rate online, with the Amex and online booking bonuses, you can get 1000 points even before you get your usual 3-4 points per $. Use Starpoints when you get your best conversion ratio - at least 3 cents per Starpoint, as high as 10.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by maineflyer:
Also, you can't use Priceline bids as the price. If you can get into a room for $40 per night, don't use Starpoints, pay to stay. You get Starpoints when you book thru Priceline (Maybe the Amex bonus too?). Booking a regular low rate online, with the Amex and online booking bonuses, you can get 1000 points even before you get your usual 3-4 points per $. Use Starpoints when you get your best conversion ratio - at least 3 cents per Starpoint, as high as 10.</font>

My feeling is that if you are waiting for a conversion ratio of 3-10 cents per Starpoint, and if you are basing that comparison on comparable Priceline stay costs, you would have very few Starwood redemptions in the US.

For example for Las Vegas, even taking in account the 5th night free for Cat 3 hotel, at 3 cents per Starpoint, the cost comes to $168 per night. You could priceline a 4* Las Vegas hotel for far less than that.

You do not get Starpoints for Priceline stays, and I don't think that you would get the Amex bonus either since it is limited to "qualifying" rates.

According to Starwood's internal policy which a friend of mine working for Starwood told me, Starwood would pay $100 for an equivalent of 7,000 points. That is if we redeem an award for example, a category 3 cost us 7,000 points. In return, Starwood would pay the hotel $100 for the equivalent of 7,000 points. So using this official 'unpublished' conversion rate, we get $100/7,000 points = $0.01429/point, which is not much. But this is definitely a lot more expensive than airline miles - that is, when some entities like AMEX buying miles from say Delta or Continental, they certainly pay less than $0.01 per mile. I don't knwo how much AMEX pays Starwood per starpoint, but I am certain it's much more expensive than airline miles. I doubt AMEX pays as much as $0.01429/point since they buy in industrial quantities but giving up 1 Starpoint for 1.25 Airline miles is not worth the cost in my opinion. I personally value Starpoint much higher than airline miles due to its scarcity and difficulty in earning/replicating through non-hotel activties. On average, I would say if you could get between $0.05~0.08 per Starpoint on your awards, then I say you make a very favorable 'exchange'. Anything lower than $0.03/point is unworthy in my opinion.

maineflyer, reservations booked through Priceline, Hotwire, and any other online wholesaler are not eligible for earning Starpoints, except for any incidentals you may have had. There has to be eligible room revenue on your stay in order to earn any bonus using the Starwood Preferred Guest Credit Card from American Express.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Specialist, E-Communications Department
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

[This message has been edited by Starwood Lurker (edited 08-17-2001).]

Thanks Starwood Lurker for clarifying Priceline, etc.

PG - I guess I was confusing on this point. I agree with you. I am saying that if you can find a cheap hotel room, take it, don't use your points. Save your points for a room where there is little opportunity for a low rate.

Guava - I have a friend who was a GM at a Marriott. He told me once that Marriott really crammed the hotels down on what they paid for a room on a rewards redemption. His thought was that the hotel itself was essentially expected to contribute to the value of the redemption as part of the franchise arrangement. Thus, the value to the customer would be expected to be a multiple of what the chain pays the franchisee.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by snackyx:
[...] What IS the value of a Starpoint, and is it worth it to pay $10 or $20 more for the 500 bonus points?</font>

Snackyx, I cannot help posting again... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

It dawned on me tonight that a technically unquantified assessment of the value of Starpoints could perhaps be interpreted as a function of the extent to which one will go to avoid spending them--!--but this would also seem to be a consequence of the not-so-prolific rate @ which they are acquired in the first place...

I have a stay booked for September for which I currently have the room reserved using a 50% off award...I spent 1500 Starpoints to save $45...until the day I depart for that property, I will be monitoring the availability of other options--as well as evaluating the justifiability of their use--in the hope that I can avoid spending those 1500 Starpoints.

I seem to treat my SPG account as a kind of "vault", containing a doesn't-grow-as-quickly-as-I'd-like-it-to balance of a "currency" which I clearly value more for their use in award stays than in a converted form of airline miles. I have many other means by which to earn FF miles, but the same is not true when it comes to Starpoints--which is perhaps the key reason why I may only rarely (if ever) convert any to miles.


Regarding your question re: "What IS the value of a Starpoint, and is it worth it to pay $10 or $20 more for the 500 bonus points?", while the value will vary, I am among those who deem the value to exceed 2 cents per point, & know it can do so by a multiple thereof. If it was me--& my circumstances, & my preferred redemption options, I'd run through a minimum of 3 calculations:

1) additional cost spent to obtain the bonus Starpoints -- in this case, on the low end it would be $10/(500+(10*3))=$10/530=~1.8 cents per Starpoint...on the high end it would be $20/(500+(20*3))=$20/560=~3.5 cents per Starpoint

2) I'd compare this to what I've determined for my own use--specific to my circumstances & preferences--to be their potential low end, "average", & high end values to me, for properties @ which I would spend Starpoints to stay free--for a single night, as well as for a 4-nights-award-stay-5th-night-free-for-Category-3-on-up

3) I'd also compare it to what it--in conjunction w/ any other bonus-point-opportunities-existing-within-a-given-timeframe--could do to my overall balance, should I be "this much" away from an amount needed for a potentially desired or want-to-have-it-as-an-option-in-a-given-timeframe award

In the end, I'd definitely spend the extra $10, & would probably hesitate a bit on the $20--but would likely "go for it" (& I suppose I engage in spending $20 or more for even less Starpoints on a somewhat "regular" basis--given that I choose to book a stay @ a Starwood property even when less costly options are technically available).

HOWEVER, in this particular circumstance, given that you already have existing reservations, I'd consider doing something atypical--though understandable & reasonable given the circumstances: I'd consider calling the given properties & asking them if they would change the rate of the subsequent online-booked res back to what was associated w/ what you originally booked. While I am uncertain as to whether this violates any of the Terms & Conditions of the promo, I cannot help seeing this as a legitimate means by which to avail yourself of the promo. I don't have a SET#, but those who do are able to see rates associated w/ such when they book online, right?--well, how about if one has their own personal arrangement w/ a given property, due to the frequency of one's stays there, & they allow one to have the rates associated w/ their reservations for stays @ said property changed to some other rate, due to their loyalty? I know that said scenario is not a purely hypothetical "what if". Having a booked-online res rate edited should not render it a not-made-online booking. Additionally, how about if there was a mistake made in the online-bookable-rate associated w/ a given property?--such as the $1000 per night rack rate I recently saw associated w/ a property for which the non-smoking-equivalent room was listed as being significantly less (i.e. the $1000 rate was clearly a mistake)--?--if that rate was to be corrected after the res was made, would one lose the 500 point booking bonus?--one would think not...


As Stephen loves Starwood said,
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"> "The value of Starpoints has a person-specific valuation.</font>

Indeed... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


Stephen loves Starwood also said:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">While I have redeemed higher also (like 12¢ per point) it doesn't count because I would never have paid the 600$ per night for that property anyways. So, it's NOT like I am SAVING THAT MONEY SPENT.</font>

...but I disagree w/ this, somewhat--I would not say that using the valuation "doesn't count"...I understand what is meant by such, however, & know that if one is to compare valuations, one of this kind would ultimately be accompanied by or otherwise considered in the light of a would-I-have-even-booked-@-that-rate constraint on interpretation.

The way I see it, however, is that regardless of whether one would have paid the rate associated w/ a revenue stay, the whole point (!--no pun intended) is that the Starpoint had great value, period, & allowed one the luxury of staying @ a property @ which one might never have otherwise stayed. In my case, the St. Regis New York is on my list of properties for which I would not be able to afford/justify paying the rates associated w/ a stay--but I would LIKE to stay there @ some point (or should I say, "thanks to many a [Star]point"), & an award stay is likely the only way I could afford/justify the "cost" of staying there.


In ways, for me, deciding when to part w/ Starpoints would "seem" to be like deciding when to have some sort of elective surgery (!)... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ("okay, is it 'necessary'...?...oh, it's gonna 'hurt' to have that removed...") http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ILTE_Miles (edited 08-18-2001).]

On Sat. April 28 I checked into the 4Points in a convenient Downtown Montreal location (Level 1) for 2 nights using 5K Starpoints.
Paid rate was CDN$160 per + 15.5% GST/PST.
=7.7 CDN CENTS or 5 US cents a Point. I was happy. I ususally want 3 cents minimum & strive for five!

[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited 08-18-2001).]

For all you math folks out there who are putting out your ways of valuing points - here's another wrinkle - add tax to the room rate - since this is a cost you will incur if you pay, but one you will not have if you use points.

I stayed at FP in San Diego on a weekend, paying 3000 points for a room that was offered for about $109 - with tax it would have been $120 - for a full value of .04 per point.

Ferd

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by VolleyballFerd:
For all you math folks out there who are putting out your ways of valuing points - here's another wrinkle - add tax to the room rate - since this is a cost you will incur if you pay, but one you will not have if you use points.</font>

Yes, it's definitely something to be taken into account, & is a good point to bring up...

It was previously a potential kicker when evaluating a stay for a Category 4 hotel in San Francisco--given the room rate, the impact of taxes was not insignificant, & made the potential use of Starpoints all the more justifiable/valuable.

[This message has been edited by ILTE_Miles (edited 08-18-2001).]

basically when does it pay to use 3000 pts per night in lieu of paying for the room?

the Sheraton Id like to stay at is a Cat 1, its $162 per night, a local agency is charging $138(probably no stay credit that way), a Renaissance Hotel my other choice will run appx $104 per night so its really 3000pts or $104

we say an airline mile is around 2 cents per mile, never saw or heard how to gauge hotel pts.

Like all other points/miles, it depends how and when you use them. Personally, I can generally get at least $.035 - $.04/SPG point on a redemption, so that's how I value them.

If you go to SPG.com you can find the price for a level 1 might be available sometimes for $76 and the same room at other times might be selling for $185 or more as the hotel fills up. The amount of points doesn’t vary until you get to the level 5 & 6 hotels. Therefore I use points if the hotel is nearly full and they are charging more than I want to pay. I always pay when there are specials such as web booking points, extra stay credits triple points etc.

As cactuspete states, "like all other points/miles, it depends how and when you use them". "Value" is a nebulous concept for miles/points. Many FlyerTalkers look to what they received on a particular past redemption or cite any number of cases where one COULD receive "value" of 8-10 cents per mile (such as upgrading an international ticket to Business Class rather than purchasing a BC ticket).

I believe a more accurate "value" is to look at people's "hurdle rates", i.e., at what point would one use miles/points rather than pay for a ticket or room. Although I often do better on SPG redemptions, my hurdle rate for using Starpoints as opposed to paying for a room is 1.81 cents per point.

In your situation, I would use the 3000 points for the cat 1 (3000*.0181 = $54.30) rather than spend $100+.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileKing:
As cactuspete states, "like all other points/miles, it depends how and when you use them". "Value" is a nebulous concept for miles/points. Many FlyerTalkers look to what they received on a particular past redemption or cite any number of cases where one COULD receive "value" of 8-10 cents per mile (such as upgrading an international ticket to Business Class rather than purchasing a BC ticket).

I believe a more accurate "value" is to look at people's "hurdle rates", i.e., at what point would one use miles/points rather than pay for a ticket or room. Although I often do better on SPG redemptions, my hurdle rate for using Starpoints as opposed to paying for a room is 1.81 cents per point.

In your situation, I would use the 3000 points for the cat 1 (3000*.0181 = $54.30) rather than spend $100+.</font>

There was a promotion by webflyer magazine, I think that's the name, where people got the chance to get unlimited amounts of SPG at 60 dollars per 2500 points. That's about $2.4 cent per point. Many people accepted. I believe this number might be a better rate of exchange than .0181 per point. Although one certainly has a valid point to argue the rate should be higher than 2.4 cent because webflyer does not offer it anymore. This method of value is based on how much will it cost you to get a point rather than how much one is saving by using the points, that some others have been using as a guide.

[This message has been edited by sergio (edited 05-17-2003).]

I was told that 1500 points cost the hotel slightly more than $20.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by craz:
we say an airline mile is around 2 cents per mile, never saw or heard how to gauge hotel pts.</font>

The trouble is that, although airline miles are pretty much equal to each other in how many it takes for a particular award, the same is not true of hotel points. That's probably why there doesn't seem to be a consensus on how much they're "worth" in general.

I figure that one Starwood point equals about 2 to 2.5 cents. My analysis:

Starwood points from credit card = 1 point per dollar spent. Most credit cards will return at most 2% of your spend. Two percent of $1 is 2 cents, so that's sort of an upper limit. (Some cards return lower, e.g. Marriott Rewards VISA with one Marriott Point -- worth at most about 1 cent -- per dollar unless spent at a Marriott property.)

However, Starwood points can be exchanged for airline miles in most programs at 1 for 1; in amounts of 20,000 there is a 25% bonus to 25,000 airline miles. So, if an airline mile is 2 cents, Starwood points are about 2 cents to 2.5 cents (the 25% bonus, remember).

Add to that the fact that Starwood points can be exchanged for airline miles at low quantities, and thus can be used to "top off" accounts in many airline programs (sort of like "stem cells"), and you might even find the Starpoints worth a bit more than 2.5 cents apiece.

As with most programs, what it's worth depends on what you do with it, and what you give up if you don't have them.

I would not base the value of a mile/point based on what they could be purchased for. For the most part, the points are sold for more than they are worth so the sale of points does not cannibalize the sale of the actual products. Airlines sell miles for 2.5 or more cents apiece, not a very good deal. Basically it is only worth it to buy points if you need then badly enough for an immediate redemption.

I think with air miles, you can get 2 cents worth when you redeem, but because they are not as spendable as cash and have capacity controls, I would value them less, maybe 1.5 cents apiece. Of course, value is all determined in how you use them.

Starpoints are more valuable because they can be converted to air miles at 1:1 or better (except UA) and can be used in various programs, not to mention they can be used for hotels without blackouts or capacity controls. I do not know what one would value them as, but I would say that Starpoints are probably the most valuable program currency out there.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sergio:
There was a promotion by webflyer magazine, I think that's the name, where people got the chance to get unlimited amounts of SPG at 60 dollars per 2500 points. That's about $2.4 cent per point. Many people accepted. I believe this number might be a better rate of exchange than .0181 per point. Although one certainly has a valid point to argue the rate should be higher than 2.4 cent because webflyer does not offer it anymore. This method of value is based on how much will it cost you to get a point rather than how much one is saving by using the points, that some others have been using as a guide.

[This message has been edited by sergio (edited 05-17-2003).]</font>

I have to disagree with valuing points based on what people pay for them. It costs me $1 for 1 Starpoint on my AMEX card. Does that mean I should value Starpoints at $1 each? Last year people on E-Bay were bidding $5+ for an AA 100 mile Kelloggs certificate. Should I value AA miles at 5 cents each based on that, knowing that I could go to Safeway and buy a box of cereal with the same 100 mile cert for $3 or less? I don't think so.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tummy:
I was told that 1500 points cost the hotel slightly more than $20.</font>

A 3000 point award stay at the Four Points in Sydney cost SPG 57.00 Australian dollars IIRC from a stay there last month. It prices as 133-149 AUD online for the cheapest rate I have seen there normally.

[This message has been edited by GUWonder (edited 05-19-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileKing:
I have to disagree with valuing points based on what people pay for them. It costs me $1 for 1 Starpoint on my AMEX card. Does that mean I should value Starpoints at $1 each? Last year people on E-Bay were bidding $5+ for an AA 100 mile Kelloggs certificate. Should I value AA miles at 5 cents each based on that, knowing that I could go to Safeway and buy a box of cereal with the same 100 mile cert for $3 or less? I don't think so.</font>

Your logic is absurd. When you spent a dollar on your credit card, you did not buy your points for a dollar. You brought something else. The points given are incidental to what was purchased.

If ebay sells miles for 5 cents and you don't buy any, why would put any value in it?
If you pay for miles, then that's your cost.

[This message has been edited by sergio (edited 05-21-2003).]

I've been trying to figure how much a SPG point is worth. For FF miles, I value each mile at 1.5 cents each becaues the value of my typical trip is about $350-400. Taking an average of $375 value for 25,000 miles, I come up with 1.5 cents/mile.

For SPG, I think the value is a little higher because of the flexibility it offers in topping off my FF accounts and because of the 5,000 mile bonus when converting 20,000 points to miles. I haven't used SPG for hotel stays but may in the future. My guess is that it's worth 2 cents/point.

So, what figure do you use when calculating the value of a SPG point?

I often get $125 rooms for 2,000 points on a weekend and get 500 points back as a platinum amenity bonus. Those points are worth about 8 cents each.

I've stayed in Luxury Collection properties with an upgrade to a $400-500/night room for 10,000 points = 4-5 cents/pt. This is even more valuable on a 5 night award when each night is 8,000 points.

Topping off accounts and transfers for promotional bonuses are also great opportunities for points. I once transferred 2 points to Northwest for a 10,000 mile bonus.

This year I transferred about 3,800 points to bump my ANA account up to the level I needed for a First Class ticket to New Zealand.

SPG points are quite useful and their value depends entirely on how well they are used.

My view--

*100,000 SPG points
*which is 125,000 air miles
*which is roughly one international first or business class ticket (depending on mileage plan and destination)
*which is anywhere from $10,000 - $15,000 in value.

If you accrue lots of SPG points, this is can be the best use, anywhere from 10-15 cents per point.

Because of their versatility and the ability to convert them into almost anything, Starpoints are the “stem cells” of the Frequent Flyer/Guest world. I value mine at about 3 cents per point, but can (as others have mentioned) get up to ten cents per point for some redemptions.

As an example, you can get an SPG 50 award for 1,000 Starpoints, which gives you 50% off rack rate for up to five nights. In one instance, at an African property where there weren’t many promotional rates available, I did manage to find SPG 50 availability that saved me nearly $100 per night! That’s about $500 for 1,000 starpoints, or FIFTY CENTS a point.

Of course, that was a fluke, but probably close to the record.

Because of their versatility and the ability to convert them into almost anything, Starpoints are the “stem cells” of the Frequent Flyer/Guest world. I value mine at about 3 cents per point, but can (as others have mentioned) get up to ten cents per point for some redemptions.

Right on!

That’s about $500 for 1,000 starpoints, or FIFTY CENTS a point.
.

I am sorry I don't get your math here even if you meant $500 for 5,000 points it is only a penny a point.

Sorry I meant 10 cents per point, I guess I posted too early in the morning My Bad

I am sorry I don't get your math here even if you meant $500 for 5,000 points it is only a penny a point.

Here's some remedial arithmetic. (Calculators are permitted on this exam.) Your example: Divide $500 by 5000 = $.10 per point. (That's TEN cents.)

Now, here's the tricky one, Counsellor's example: Divide $500 by 1000 = $.50 per point. (FIFTY cents.)

Are we clear? Crystal.

daddcap seems to assume that the 1000 points is required to get the 50% off rack for EACH NIGHT it's used. But in fact 1000 points buys the rate for up to 5 consecutive nights. So the 50 cents value is right.

I've often thought that the 1000 points for a SPG50 would yield among the highest values for StarPoints, if applied in the right circumstance. Of course, it's pretty hard to find enough "right circumstances" to spend an account full of points this way.

This must have been discussed about a 1000 times.

One thing to keep in mind is that you cannot value SPG points against rack rates. You need to value them agains PriceLine rates. ( I have stayed in suite that had a rack rate of over 2000E for 12k SPG points, although the true value of a suite was probably close to 500E)

My view--

*100,000 SPG points
*which is 125,000 air miles
*which is roughly one international first or business class ticket (depending on mileage plan and destination)
*which is anywhere from $10,000 - $15,000 in value.

If you accrue lots of SPG points, this is can be the best use, anywhere from 10-15 cents per point.


Would you pay $10,000-$15,000 for an international first or business class ticket? If you wouldn't pay that amount out of pocket, then the value of SPG points is NOT worth 10-15 cents per point for you. It's worth the maximum you would pay for a point.

Redemption value is a different story. A lot of times you can redeem an SPG point for much more than you actually value an SPG point at. For example, I value an SPG point at 2 cents. I try to redeem SPG points at closer to 4 to 5 cents apiece. But even if I redeem at 4 or 5 cents apiece, I probably could have gotton a similar room at ~2 cents apiece (thru Priceline, etc.) or close when staying during a promo where you'd get lots of points back which you wouldn't have gotton had you stayed on points.
That’s about $500 for 1,000 starpoints, or FIFTY CENTS a point.
Of course, that was a fluke, but probably close to the record.
My brother used an SPG50 for a ~$1200 rack rate Overwater Bungalow at Bora Bora Nui, brought the rate down to ~$600 per night. The Best Available Rate at the time was ~$950 per night, saving him ~$350 per night times 5 nights. That's about $1750 for 1,000 Starpoints, or $1.75 per point. Not bad!!!
I once transferred 2 points to Northwest for a 10,000 mile bonus.
But I think this one still takes the record. At 1 cent per NWA mile, this person got $50 per SPG point!! Good job. ^
Now if only somebody here redeemed ONE SPG point for a 10,000 mile NWA bonus (and I bet an FTer probably has), they would probably take the record with a $100 per SPG point redemption value. :)

2.7 cents

This must have been discussed about a 1000 times.

One thing to keep in mind is that you cannot value SPG points against rack rates. You need to value them agains PriceLine rates. ( I have stayed in suite that had a rack rate of over 2000E for 12k SPG points, although the true value of a suite was probably close to 500E)
I don't value Starpoints against Rack rates. I value them against the cheapest rate that I would normally qualify for (whether a promo rate, AAA, one of the multi-night special rates, whatever), that are available for the particular dates of my stay.

One thing to remember is that when redeeming points (on either a pure points stay or a Cash and Points stay), you DON'T earn any stay or nights credit, or any points for the stay itself (though you might earn points for incidentals). However, you DO get status perks (including the 500-point Platinum amenity, if available), upgrades, etc. So it seems to me that the comparison to a Priceline rate (on which you will normally not even get status perks) isn't quite accurate. (I often work around the lack of stay credit by doing one paid night in conjunction with award stays.)

My guesstimate of an average Starpoint value (as I've posted on this same topic many times before) is about 2.5 cents.

Oh, and on the topic of the 1,000 points spent for an SPG50 cert sometimes giving the best value per point: I beg to differ. I have always gotten 50%-off certs for free (through the Starwood Amex or other routes), so for me, spending 1,000 points on something that can be had for free would be the WORST possible redemption value: $0.00 per point!!! :D

I redeem starpoints rather than using cash whenever they will be worth more than 3 cents each on a stay I would actually pay cash for. This clears them out roughly as fast as I earn them, and I've spent about 75K points this year, keeping my balance around 50K throughout. I use them pretty much exclusively on Cat 1 or 2 properties, cash and points or 5th night free which help keep up the value.

The faster you accumulate points the harder pushed you'll be to wait for good opportunities to spend them all and the lower the value to you. Likewise, the more often you travel at your own expense the more opportunities you will have to use them, so the fussier you can be and the higher the personal value.

When making comparisons with room rates remember that using points rather than cash saves you tax not included in the quoted room rate, but because you also forgoe the chance to earn more points the lost points roughly cancel out the saved tax.

It just keeps getting better and better over here on the SPG thread....8, 10, 15 cents per point? Do I hear 20 cents? If I could sell all of my substantial balance of SPG points for even 4 cents each, I would do it in a heartbeat. Sure, it's easy to come up with such high valuations when one is using rack rates, but who pays rack rates for stays? The lowest available rate, as noted by KathryWdrf, is a much better and more realistic yardstick. Using that, I redeem Starpoints anytime I can get more than 1.8 cents each for them, and I suspect that next year that will drop once SPG bumps hotel categories....again.

If anyone has computed Starpoint value based on rack rates in this thread, I've missed it. What I have seen is reference to the rack rate for using the SPG50 or equivalent 1000 Starpoint award, as these both cut 50% off the rack rate. But the computation of value using these should be, and has been, as far as I've noticed in this thread, to the difference between the best available rate and 50% off the rack rate.

Also, I don't recall anyone suggesting that the rather astronomical values achieved in special cases amount to a good "rule of thumb" value for Starpoints.

I tend to value my Starpoints at about 3 cents each, but try to get closer to 5 cents each out of them when looking for spending opportunities. But that's partly also due to the fact that I don't have a whole boatload of points yet. If I had half a million points, I'd be happy to sell quite a few at 4 cents, too.

And so long as Starwood raises hotel categories at a rate that roughly simulates rises in the price of the rooms, there should be no devaluation in the overall value of the Starpoints. I haven't experienced enough reclassifications yet to know whether it does generally track inflation, but some of the comments I've read in related threads seem to suggest that it does.

My view--

*100,000 SPG points
*which is 125,000 air miles
*which is roughly one international first or business class ticket (depending on mileage plan and destination)
*which is anywhere from $10,000 - $15,000 in value.

If you accrue lots of SPG points, this is can be the best use, anywhere from 10-15 cents per point.

I agonized over the best use last year before I went to Europe. Decided to use them all for hotel rooms, and I think it turned out to be the best value. I think we used close to 120K points for 14 nights gratis in London, Florence and Venice-- some suites that were on the price card in the lobby at almost 2000 euros per night. The value of the rooms was over 18K.

I use Memb miles to Virgin for upper class tickets (only 80000). MM are much cheaper than *points and those tickets are $8,000 to $12,000 in value.

I booked a couple nights at the Westin E-R in Venice for 12K points/night for next April stay. Currently, SPG.com rate is $473 Euro/night ($576), that's almost 5 cents/point.

I usually stay in the low end properties so my value is about 6 cents a *point.

Cheers
expressboy

I go for the high-end estimate too. I've given this example before on this board, but here goes again. This summer we spent 5 nights at the Ritz in Kapalua using 150,000 Marriott points, and 5 nights at the Princeville in Kauai using 48,000 Starwood points. At the room rates available on the program websites, my Starwood points were valued at 5.7 cents per point, while my Marriott points were only worth 1.8 cents. As someone who gets most of his points through credit cards, the Starwood AMEX is a no-brainer and I've convinced 7 of my friends to switch in the last year.

It actually worked out even better as I am SPG Platinum and was upgraded to a suite at the Princeville. If you looked at what they went for on the website, my actual "value" was 8.8 cents.

I also used points to upgrade a Newark-Honolulu coach ticket (American Airlines) to first class, buying a $900 ticket a getting a $2,500 one. That was worth 5.3 cents. Like I said, a no-brainer. :D

To cut a long story short, there was some mixup with my airline reservations and evidently I had had to stay over in BKK an extra night. Due to my limited budget then I refused to fork out $ for a hotel room, and managed to get an award room at the Royal Orchid Sheraton for 4000 Starwood points.

I will be making a complaint to the airline FFP concerned about their mistake but I need to be able to (hopefully) claim the equivalent of what I had spent in points... The hotel said that at rack rates, it would have cost me US$210 a night.

I just want to all my facts straight before I write my letter to the airline concerned.

I have to add that the hotel exceeded my expectations and will be staying there as a paying guest in the future! :-:

I value Starpoints at 2.5 cents each. Therefore, I would say 4000 Starpoints are the equivalent of $100.

You'll read around that typically a good redemption value is $0.05+ per point. Personally, I don't even consider anything less when using my points, regardless of the situation. The higher the better. Your rate seems to be a rather acceptable use of points IMHO.

Cheers,

Adrian

Historically 2.5 cents/point, which would be about $100. But with the recent, uh, adjustments, I'd say 2 cents, so $80.

It looks like typical lowest room rates there are $150-ish. It's hard to ask for RACK rates when rooms are available for lower to the public.

You'll read around that typically a good redemption value is $0.05+ per point. Personally, I don't even consider anything less when using my points, regardless of the situation. The higher the better. Your rate seems to be a rather acceptable use of points IMHO.

Cheers,

Adrian

Lunacy. $0.05 per SPG point minimum. Nonsense.

Due to my limited budget then I refused to fork out $ for a hotel room, and managed to get an award room at the Royal Orchid Sheraton for 4000 Starwood points.In retrospect, you really should have [temporarily] invested the required amount of money and paid for that night. This would have provided you with a folio, clearly showing your expenses (for reimbursement purposes), and, as a bonus, you would have earned starpoints.

I am afraid that it is unlikely that an airline will accept your valuation of the starpoints spent. Perhaps you could try asking the hotel to send you some kind of a document (a-la-invoice), showing the prevailing rate (in a tangible currency) for the night in question -- "the hotel said" line is extremely unlikely to work.

Lunacy. $0.05 per SPG point minimum. Nonsense.

Regardless of our varying opinions, you just need to be comfortable with the value received for your points. Some people are fine with $0.02 per point, others with $0.05. It all depends on how you value your points.

Some people consider a good value of an airline mile to be $0.02 a mile, I personally use them wherever and whenever I can because I have too many to begin with.

Cheers,

Adrian

First of all, the below happened on what I considered as great value for money : 5 nights at 7000pts each at LM Munich, booked before category increase, hotel room going rate close to 400 EUR for a standard room ... not that it would still have been possible to secure 5 consecutive nights anymore since Jan or Feb (Oktoberfest opening weekend just now). On a normal, low-season weekend, rates would range from 170 to 250 EUR.

My initial room bill showed an internal SPG calculation, valuing each night at 55 USD, or about 37 EUR.

Can this be right ?

If the hotel really only gets such a fraction of the room value in what must be their full-occupancy peak period in the year ... I would be one VERY unhappy hotel manager ! Didn't particularly spend a lot of time at the hotel (:D:D) to ask around, but from the number of non-Germans in the hotel corridors I would think that I wasn't the only one staying on points

7.7 CDN CENTS or 5 US cents a Point.
:p

My initial room bill showed an internal SPG calculation, valuing each night at 55 USD, or about 37 EUR.

Can this be right ?

Yes.

Currently, I'm thinking

SPG .03/.05
Hyatt .03
Hilton .0025

I think about 0.03 cents per point - anything more is simply a great deal, and probably not a fair way to value the points...

I use $.03 when considering if using points or cash. Be sure to factor in the $.03 value of the points you receive as part of the cash stay as that reduces your true cost.

It's considered customary -- and even polite -- to restart old threads on FT if the title is general and of general, ongoing interest. ^ All anyone has to do is start by looking for the gap between the older posts and the most recent ones, and the most recent ones do have current cost information (and are less than a week old, to boot).

The .03 calculation is interesting, as my wife and I were recently at the SVO property in Maui and they were offering new owners to option to purchase an additional 80,000 StarPoints at $1,675.

That would value them at roughly .02 cents -- for purchase, not for redemption. So any redemption value higher than that makes it a good deal. I generally consider any redemption at .03 - .05 cents worthwhile. With the current weak dollar, a US resident can do very well with StarPoints redemption values in Europe.

The .03 calculation is interesting, as my wife and I were recently at the SVO property in Maui and they were offering new owners to option to purchase an additional 80,000 StarPoints at $1,675.


I was given the same "opportunity." I think that if you plan to book a trip right away, forking out $1700 for 80k points could be a nice savings off retail.
80k points buys 5-7 nights in a Cat. 5, 3-5 night in a Cat. 6, or 2 nights in a Cat. 7 hotel.

Taking the first Cat 5 listed (Westin Aruba), and using travel dates of 3/14-3/21/08, the cheapest room (pre-paid) I could find was $335/night or $2860 after taxes for 7 nights. StarPoints required for 7 nights (with 5th night free) at this resort is 72k.

If I've done my math correctly, the value of each StarPoint in this scenario was 5 cents and the cost was 2 cents. Total savings off retail: $1185.

Caveat: The longer you wait to book your stay, the more you risk another point devaluation.

Just as a general survey question, how much is SPG Plat worth to those of you who are/have been SPG Plat? Taking into account upgrade types and consistency (or lack thereof), bonus miles, concierge line, and all the other benefits.

I've been an SPG Gold for the past few years and now it looks like I could possibly reach Plat for the first time ever, so I'm debating whether or not it's worth it (since I'd have to do a bit of mattress running to get it).

So is it worth an extra $500 to you? $1000? $2000 (or more)? How would you quantify its worth?

Thanks!

(And as a side note, I'm curious about the "upgrade to best available room" feature of Plat status. If I booked a cheaper room (award or $) at one of the resorts in French Polynesia -- you know, the ones with the sweet overwater bungalows -- would my Plat status be enough to get into one of those bungalows even if I booked the cheapest rooms?)

Just as a general survey question, how much is SPG Plat worth to those of you who are/have been SPG Plat? Taking into account upgrade types and consistency (or lack thereof), bonus miles, concierge line, and all the other benefits.

I've been an SPG Gold for the past few years and now it looks like I could possibly reach Plat for the first time ever, so I'm debating whether or not it's worth it (since I'd have to do a bit of mattress running to get it).

So is it worth an extra $500 to you? $1000? $2000 (or more)? How would you quantify its worth?

Thanks!

(And as a side note, I'm curious about the "upgrade to best available room" feature of Plat status. If I booked a cheaper room (award or $) at one of the resorts in French Polynesia -- you know, the ones with the sweet overwater bungalows -- would my Plat status be enough to get into one of those bungalows even if I booked the cheapest rooms?)

In my opinion, the best benefit is the 500 point platinum amenity every stay. This is sometimes more than the points I would get from the 3 x dollar points for the regular stay.

The room upgrades are great I have to say. I've been upgraded (on points/low paying stays) to some of the NICEST suites I have ever seen. When traveling with my wife and two daughters, the extra space is often appreciated for family vacations. Example, paid for two queen beds at the Westin Diplomat in So. Florida, was upgraded to a 1500 sq. ft Governors suite with 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, full bar, living room, dining room and an enormous patio on the 32nd floor. Just incredible.

Have been platinum for several years and gold for many years prior to that. The majority of my stays are not only in the same chain but at the same hotel.

As a repeat guest, the upgrade gets less lucrative each time you return. The quality of the service is reduced with each stay. The guest soon becomes a PITA, kinda like family!

My better experience with SPG was when I held the gold membership. The courting phase. Marketing appears to be focused on attracting NEW guests.

After having been platinum since Starwood's inception, I am now sitting on 5 stays this year, due to a change in career. I have thought of doing mattress runs, especially with the double stay promotion, but haven't pulled the trigger on any yet.

What's holding me back is that due to my future lack of travel, I don't foresee staying in SPG hotels as much going forward, so not sure Platinum status, if not traveling, would be worth anything. :(:(:(

After having been platinum since Starwood's inception, I am now sitting on 5 stays this year, due to a change in career. I have thought of doing mattress runs, especially with the double stay promotion, but haven't pulled the trigger on any yet.

What's holding me back is that due to my future lack of travel, I don't foresee staying in SPG hotels as much going forward, so not sure Platinum status, if not traveling, would be worth anything. :(:(:(

I'm with you. In reality I can stay at any hotel for business and get a room that'll make me plenty happy. So why SPG? If it wasn't for the plat service we get on vacation I wouldn't use SPG exclusively for business. Here are a few of the reasons that I do what I do to remain loyal to SPG and maintain the Plat:

1. Points for cash and points vacation stays (stretching point values at great properties).
2. Once on-site, typically excellent service. I take somewhere between 3 and 5 vacations a year with my wife internationally. And SPG international, especially in some of th exotic locales, is fantastic towards plats.
3. To get that little extra something when I need it. For this the concierge service has been great. Whether its looking up a special excursion at my destination, or squeezing me in even though the hotel is full, it has its privs.

So how much do these benefits cost me. Since I got exclusively with SPG, and stay around 75 nights per year at an average of $250 per night, I would say that overall, I probably overpay a premium of 15% by staying at SPG instead of looking for the best deal in different locations.

That 15% costs me around $2.500 per year. I consider this the cost of SPG Plat to me.

On the benefits side, assuming that the same $250 rate is applied at vacation properties, I would be saving somewhere in the range of $1o0 per night if using a C&P after taxes and all. I do about 25 days of vacation stay at SPG, which saves me around $2,500. Even though I get suite upgrades almost all the time, if I wouldn't pay for those suites if I were actually going on vacation. Sure, in that case SPG plat is worth much much more (average suite around $750), but to me, it flushes out to pretty much even.

In the end, $$-wise its a wash if I pick the regular rooms and do my CBA based on that. Because of the suite upgrades with the wife, and the special treatment, excursions, etc on-site that plats receive, I find it nice to maintain my status. Plus there is something to be said for having 1 URL and booking travel through it anytime you need a hotel, it makes searching much easier.

I just redeemed a 7 night (5th night free) award for the Le Meridien in Mauritius and it hit me that I've now redeemed a ton of rooms through the SPG program and probably have a good basis to calculate out what a point is actually worth. Seeing as though this question gets asked a lot, I thought I'd share it with you here.

For what its worth, all of my cost savings are calculated off the rate available on the day that I tried booking the room, generally at my Company's SET code which is usually a decent discount. Obviously you might be able to get the room for more or less, but I just don't have that information and had to start somewhere! Some of these rooms are pre-devaluation. Most of my points are right, but might be slightly off, especially the first one. It doesn't impact the analysis much though.

June 2006: Westin Excelsior Rome: $540 / 12000 points . . . 1 night

September 2006: Sheraton Springfield: $199 / 7000 points . . . 2 nights.

March 2007: Sheraton Moorea: $350 / 12000 points . . . 5 nights (1 free)

March 2007: Sheraton Tahiti: $250 / 10000 points . . . 3 nights

July 2007: Sheraton Eatontown: $199 / 7000 points . . . 2 nights

August 2008: Le Meridien Mauritius: $316 / 7000 points . . . 7 nights (1 free).


This calculates out to: 184,000 points savings me $6647 or $0.036. Obviously ymmv, but I thought I'd share as this question gets asked a lot. Looking at this, using certain hotels would have bumped up the value per mile a lot, others bring it down a lot.

You may value the SPG points at that amount, but how much are you willing to pay for them?

Yea, those are not very impressive nightly prices... you might be able to do better using travel discounters (hotwire/priceline/expedia etc) but then again, revaluing SPG points benefits using a competing hotel chain's prices is gonna make us depressed :)

People can cite numerous examples where they received 3.5 cents, 4 cents, 6 cents, or more per SPG point. It's great that this "level of value" is being received for some stays, but using one particular redemption or even several redemptions (as you have done) to establish value is misleading. You received 3.6 cents per point. On the next SPG hotel stay you consider, if you could get 3.5 cents per point, would you use points or pay $$? What if your next stay could only yield 3.1 cents per point. Would you use the points or pay the $$? How about at 2.5 cents per point? You get the picture. The true value is really the lowest yield you will accept for the points before opting to pay cash. For what it's worth, my value for SPG points is 1.8 cents per point.

For what it's worth, my value for SPG points is 1.8 cents per point.

In January, you can stay at the W New York for $229 + tax per night, 12,000 SPG points per night, or 4,800 SPG points + $90 + tax per night. I value SPG points at about 2.5 cents per point. If I use points only, I am receiving about 2.2 cents per point in value (when you add the tax you would also have to pay). If I use cash + points, I am receiving about 3.4 cents per point in value. The best deal here, which I will use, is to pay $90 per night and fork out 4,800 SPG points per night.

You should also consider the taxes on the room in addition to the room rate. This will bump up the value of an SPG point by ~ 15%

You should also consider the taxes on the room in addition to the room rate. This will bump up the value of an SPG point by ~ 15%

That is EXACTLY what I did in my post.

You may value the SPG points at that amount, but how much are you willing to pay for them?

Actually, unlike air miles which I redeem for premium cabins (but wouldn't actually pay for those), in the case of SPG, with the exception of the Excelsior in Rome, I would stay at those hotels either way, so that is actually the value for the miles. Case in point, I used points for the two French Polynesia hotels above, but actually paid cash for Le Meridien in Bora Bora because the point value there was worthless (the room still cost upwards of $600). But your point is a fair one when considering that you sometimes splurge for things you wouldn't ordinarily pay for.

......... The true value is really the lowest yield you will accept for the points before opting to pay cash. For what it's worth, my value for SPG points is 1.8 cents per point.

if I would get them for that, I would buy 200k now ;)

I use them normaly in Thailand ROS Kat 2.
the regular rates start normaly weekdays around 155 USD incl.
and weekends 130 USD incl taxes/fees
Kat.2 155 $ / 4000 = 3,9 cent
30 US$ + 1600 / 125 $ / 1600 = 7,8 cent if using cash + points

weekend
130 $ / 3000 = 4,3 cent
100 $ / 1600 = 6,25 cent

or with other words, getting them for 1,8 cent, my night at ROS cost only
1600 * 1,8 = 28,8 $ + 30 $ = 58,8 USD :rolleyes:

You should also consider the taxes on the room in addition to the room rate. This will bump up the value of an SPG point by ~ 15%

If you are to consider taxes, you should also consider the points you would get for the stay. Factor in the points to decrease the costs... well, this makes my head hurt.

One of the best use for SPG points is at Arabella Sheraton Cape Town, which normally goes for 300-400 USD per night. It only costs 7000 points ~ 5 cents per point.

I personally think that any cat 1 or 2 hotels that goes for 150 USD or similar is a good use of points (2000-4000 SPG points per night).

To me, you should compare the value per point with the cost of the paid alternative (adjusted for taxes and points). For a hotel room, I compare against the lowest paid cost for a room in a hotel in the immediate area of similar or acceptable quality. I have found that in many U.S. cities, Priceline or Hotwire often offer the best value.

Not everyone travels frequently internationally, so while you can get some very nice values per point for stays in distant locations, it may not be appropriate to value all your points at this level.

That said, I think cash and points stays can offer good value. Converting to airline miles can offer good value. And with the weak U.S. dollar, international stays likely offer good value.

Bottom line, above 3 cents/per point, I am likely to use points. Between 2.4-3 cents/point, I might use points. Below 2.4 cents/point, I am unlikely to use points.

There's always the argument about, "but would you spend that much if it weren't for points?" I gave my answer to that in another thread.

But here's a deal I would definitely spend the money on. Transfer 25,000 points to Amtrak. Round trips from NJ to Washington DC are 3,000 points, so I'll be getting over 8 roundtrips. The cheapest price is about $130. And that, my friends, is 4.33 cents per point.

Our son and his family moved to DC to become a professor at GW and we are committed to going down once a month. This makes it a whole lot easier.

But here's a deal I would definitely spend the money on. Transfer 25,000 points to Amtrak. Round trips from NJ to Washington DC are 3,000 points, so I'll be getting over 8 roundtrips. The cheapest price is about $130. And that, my friends, is 4.33 cents per point.

Boy, are you ever sadly mistaken! A ONE-WAY trip in the Northeast Corridor runs 3,000 points. A ROUND-TRIP will cost you TWICE as much, or 6,000 points. That's 2.17 cents per mile and SPG points are not worth spending unless you get at least 2.5 cents per mile. Here is the information posted at the Amtrak Guest Rewards website (click on Redeem Points, then Amtrak, then Rewards Chart).

Amtrak Travel 1 (one-way)
NORTHEAST ZONE
TYPE OF SEAT POINTS ITEM NO.

Coach 3,000 1048
Business Class 6,500 1049
Roomette/Accessible
Bedroom 15,000 1046
Bedroom 20,000 1047

Next time, read a little more carefully. :rolleyes:

Oops! Thanks for the heads-up before I transferred my points.

I'm fairly new to the SPG program and I have a somewhat similar question.

With the various promotions, including the 1,2, 3 stay promotion earning upwards of 6,000 points for your 3rd stay at a given property, as well as bonus promotions for a specific property, e.g. the Westin Alexandria, I could earn an additional 5,000 SPG points if I were to stay again at that property --however, I calculate that in doing so, I would be spending approximately $50 more than similar accommodations elsewhere.

So, is it worth it to shell out an extra $50 for the bonus 5,000 SPG points by staying at the Westin Alexandria, considering that this is indeed a newer property, as well?

I tend to think it is, but since I am new to this game never having redeemed SPG points before, and not having much experience in even earning them, I was wondering what you think?

Thanks! :)

Buy 1.25 cents Sell (means redeem/use) 2.5 cents.

Usually get 4 cents in value on use. Only use for hotels or overseas premium travel/last minute domestic travel.

$50 for 5000 points (or $0.01 per point) is a good deal. As the earlier posts and elsewhere indicate, you can get substantially greater value for SPG points, particularly by using the Cash and Points redemption option.

To give an example, I just booked a Cash and Points stay at the Sheraton in San Juan (category 4) taking what was a $310 rate and making it 4000 points and $60 per night. So, leaving out the taxes, points not earned, etc., 4000 points = $250 or $0.0625 per point. To pay the entire rate using points would require 10,000 per night or $0.031 per point.

I love these threads! As I've posted before, whether I was willing to spend the $$$ or not, I still get the experience and the benefit.

Here's a good one. I'm sure many of us are considered "gurus" by our friends. My nephew called to ask about hotel stays in Paris. He wants to go for three nights to meet his twin brother living in Israel, for a long weekend.

Prince des Galles, my favorite Paris hotel, was approx 600 Euro per night, or about $2,700 for three nights. Cash and points was a total of 24,000 Starpoints + $450. 24,000 Starpoints would cost him $840, for a total cost of $1,290. Value them however you want - but what a deal!!!

two nights in a cat. 1 hotel for 4000 pts instead of 300 € = 450 $ ^

Hey, I know we all have great stories using points instead of cash for a given stay. What I have been asking that some of you have answered is whether it is worth it to spend an additional $50 to obtain 5,000 points.

So far, I think the response was yes, but I would appreciate more to chime in! ;)

Since you must not be near any of the big rewards (e.g., Nights and Flights), isn't the basic litmus test whether you consider any of the hotels in Categories 1 or 2 a good deal for $50 for one night? Perhaps consider Category 3 since you presumably are earning points on the hotel room in question.

See http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/account/starpoints/redeem/free_nights.html

The other obvious consideration is whether you are within 5,000 miles of a signficant airline award that can be met by transferring points from Starwood.

Even with the significant devaluation of the program in the last year, I think most people consider a *point to be worth more than $0.01. A search on this subject should confirm this.

Since you must not be near any of the big rewards (e.g., Nights and Flights), isn't the basic litmus test whether you consider any of the hotels in Categories 1 or 2 a good deal for $50 for one night? Perhaps consider Category 3 since you presumably are earning points on the hotel room in question.

See http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/account/starpoints/redeem/free_nights.html

The other obvious consideration is whether you are within 5,000 miles of a signficant airline award that can be met by transferring points from Starwood.

Even with the significant devaluation of the program in the last year, I think most people consider a *point to be worth more than $0.01. A search on this subject should confirm this.


Good points to ponder. Thanks.

This will be my first time redeeming starpoints for anything other than AA miles. When comparing the exchange rate of miles (20k *points for 25k miles), using the starpoints now appears to be a better value given the depreciating U.S. dollar. I was contemplating whether the below was a good use of starpoints compared to others experiences. It sounds like it is.

Sheraton Zurich $400US (420CHF) per night x 5 nights = $2K

save $1550 by redeeming 24K starpoints
save $2000 by redeeming 60K starpoints

4800 points + $90US x 5 nights = 24K Starpoints + $450US = savings of $1550 = 6.5 cents per starpoint

12000 starpoints x 5 nights = 60K starpoints = savings of $2K for 60K starpoints + = 3.3 cents per starpoint

Loss of starpoints for redeeming rather than paying = 10K Starpoints (Gold + double points promo + Starwood Amex)

If I factor in the loss of starpoints for redeeming rather than paying, the numbers drop to 4.5 cents and 2.9 cents per starpoint.

Obviously most people value these points at a higher value than any mile out there, but I am curious at what people feel it's actual worth is.

I'm at the Laguna Resort in Nusa Dua Bali.

When you check in, they give you a folder with your current spg point balance. They offer to apply spg points for charges you incur during your stay......

massages, taxi rides, meals, logo wear in the store, etc

They value 750 points to $10.

In fact, it's quite funny, the drink menu lists Indonesian Rp ($) AND Starpoints.

I'm at the Laguna Resort in Nusa Dua Bali.

When you check in, they give you a folder with your current spg point balance. They offer to apply spg points for charges you incur during your stay......

massages, taxi rides, meals, logo wear in the store, etc

They value 750 points to $10.

In fact, it's quite funny, the drink menu lists Indonesian Rp ($) AND Starpoints.

Never heard of that either. Interesting.

The Le Méridien Nirwana Golf & Spa Resort (also in Bali) also has menu and other prices listed in currency and Starpoints. I value my points far more than they were offering.

Obviously most people value these points at a higher value than any mile out there, but I am curious at what people feel it's actual worth is.

For miles I believe it is a question of how you redeem them. Miles can be worth a lot when redeemed for purchasing or upgrading long-haul international flights of expensive sectors. Prices of F or C seats on some international routes are worth a lot.

My fiancee wants to use the spa for an upcoming stay at W Montreal. The total for her treatments will be $215 (CDN$) or 18,060 starpoints...which is the better value?

Can someone explain to me the math on this one? I'm sure it's been discussed before, actually, I recall reading it before but I just can't find the post.
Thanks!

My fiancee wants to use the spa for an upcoming stay at W Montreal. The total for her treatments will be $215 (CDN$) or 18,060 starpoints...which is the better value?

Can someone explain to me the math on this one? I'm sure it's been discussed before, actually, I recall reading it before but I just can't find the post.
Thanks!

I would certainly advise to use the cash!

For 18,000 points you may almost use two times a night in a cat 5 hotel @:-)

I have a more tricky choîce:

a) Cash = 90 USD - 50 Voucher = 40 USD
b) Points = 2,000
c) Cash = 90 USD PLUS gaining 2,000+ points (incl. BRG)

Which option would you chose?

I have a more tricky choîce:

a) Cash = 90 USD - 50 Voucher = 40 USD
b) Points = 2,000
c) Cash = 90 USD PLUS gaining 2,000+ points (incl. BRG)

Which option would you chose?

A Starpoint is worth approximately 2.0 cents. Yes, they have declined in value from 2.5 cents due to the recession and its effect on hotel prices. Therefore, I would go with B as long as you can use the $50 voucher somewhere else or for something else.

I would certainly advise to use the cash!

For 18,000 points you may almost use two times a night in a cat 5 hotel @:-)

I concur. If you used the points, you would get about 50% of what they are actually worth.

Westin ST John USVI for January 20010

Booking 4 rooms for the family and bad at figuring these things out. I'm pretty sure Cash & Points is the best option:

Best available non-refundable rate is $689 (I've been here twice and while we enjoy the property - this is not a luxury hotel and this price is crazy). This does not include the $40 resort fee each night, so our 5 night total is $3,920 each room. Now, while I would never pay, these are options...

Points: Stay 4 get 5th free 12k a night x4= 48k each room (do i have to pay resort fee on award bookings???) If yes, then looks like i get about .08 cents a point???

Cash & Points: $90 + 4800 points (plus $40 resort fee, i assume?). WIthout taxes factored in yet...about .13 cents a point???

Can someone check my process math? Is this correct thinking?

Thanks!

Yes, C&P is always going to be better than straight points. And your calculations are correct that it's way better to redeem points than shell out $700+ per night at Westin St John...............^

Westin ST John USVI for January 20010


Can someone check my process math? Is this correct thinking?

Thanks!

I think your math may be slightly off, only because your cash total would be $3445 before resort fee, making it about 7c with pts and 12.5c with c&p but the value equation is the same: C&P!!

Also, you will pay a lot more taxes on cash than C&P so you can figure that in too.

However, the values for you are a little inflated if you would not truly be willing to pay the $689. In that case, you could argue you should really divide the cost of what you would pay elsewhere by your points. in other words, if there is a somewhat comparable resort that went for only $300, then you'd be looking at $1500-450 (C&P cash cost) for $1050/24000 (4.3 cents -- still very good but not outstanding).

But of course if this is the place you want to stay, or if you just don't want to spend cash or have points to spare, C&P is obviously the way to go if you can handle the $450 cash outlay per room.

Not sure if the resort fee is applicable with any rate plan but being platinum may help (I know the Westin Bear Mountain comped me the resort fees on a C&P as a plat).

Based on the T&C's from the aloft promotion to win 1,000,000 Starpoints:

"Sweepstakes Prize: ONE (1) GRAND PRIZE: 1 million star points. Points will be credited to the winner's Starwood Preferred Guest account. Approximate Retail Value ("ARV"): $35,000 USD. Odds of winning the Sweepstakes Prize depend on the number of eligible entries received during the Promotion Period. Membership in the SPG program is required to redeem Starpoints. Join for free at SPG.com. Use of Starpoints is subject to the terms and conditions of the SPG program which are subject to change without notice and can be found at SPG.com. Starpoints will remain active as long as the account is kept active in accordance with the terms and conditions of the SPG Program. Grand Prize winner will be responsible for all taxes associated with receipt of the prize."

Based on this, it would seem like it's fair to assume that Starwood pegs the value of a Starpoint at ~3.5 cents per point.

Based on this, it would seem like it's fair to assume that Starwood pegs the value of a Starpoint at ~3.5 cents per point.

Well, that's what SPG sells them for, right? So it's not a shocker that they'd value them at that. I'd certainly never pay that much for them, however I often do get a better value than 3.5 cents per point out of them when using them for award night.

A Starpoint is worth approximately 2.0 cents. Yes, they have declined in value from 2.5 cents due to the recession and its effect on hotel prices.

I'd be interested to hear more current opinions on the value of a Starpoint, given the recession as well as SPG's great rates/promotions out there for the taking.

I have been saving mine to redeem in Rome, but given the low rates for June, I can't decide whether to spend the $ or redeem the points at only 1.5 cents/per point.

I have been saving mine to redeem in Rome, but given the low rates for June, I can't decide whether to spend the $ or redeem the points at only 1.5 cents/per point.

Kind of becoming a good problem. We go to DC with some frequency as my son and his family live there. Usually stay at the Park Hyatt and use Hyatt points to upgrade to an absolutely ridiculously magnificent suite.

But hey, it's a recession so we decided to stop paying and start using our Starwood points. But the weekend rates at the Grand and the Fairfax are so reasonable, that it makes no sense to waste points (and get maybe a penny a point). So we keep saving them and hoping there is not another devaluation before we plan our next big Europe trip.

I have been saving mine to redeem in Rome, but given the low rates for June, I can't decide whether to spend the $ or redeem the points at only 1.5 cents/per point.

Spend the cash and save the points. If you can't get at LEAST 2 cents per Starpoint in value, you should pay cash unless you are broke, in which case you probably should stay at home. The economy will eventually recover, hotel prices will go up, and then you will be glad you saved the points.

I just booked the Hotel Maria Cristina in San Sebastian for next summer.

Published rate for Deluxe Room: EUR310 (465USD at 1.5 exch rate)
Cash & Points Rate (4800 Starpoints + 90USD)

So the 4800 Starpoints = 375USD ==> .08USD per Starpoint.

Would I really be willing to pay $465/night to stay here? Perhaps not. So the implied value may be somewhat less. But I am extremely pleased to be getting this much value from my Starpoints, especially in light of the expected weakness in the greenback.

The point about if someone themselves would actually be willing to pay what the published room rates are (in order to base cents per point valuations) can be looked at another way.

If you don't pay the $ then you don't get to stay at that property period. Thus although I would never pay $600 a night for some European cat 5/6, the fact that I wouldn't pay it means I would never stay there (sans some promo).

Thus it allows us to experience a higher quality property by redeeming regardless of whether we value it as something we would pay with cash. I don't value a first class ticket as $20k to Europe, thus I would never pay that although I would redeem miles for it and claim the cpm as something ridiculous.