jetsetter
Nov 21, 00, 8:24 am
As we all know, the recent Free Fridays promotions have stated in the rules that one must use an American Express card. Also, many have received waivers to this rule. Also, it appears that the SPG computers, with or without a documented waiver, will count a guests stays towards these promotions regardless of the form of payment used. In other words, from what I know, the computers cannot distinguish what form of payment the guest actually used to pay for a stay?
I recently spoke to SPG to try to get such a waiver of the Amex rule, and after puting me on hold, the rep reluctantly said that the supervisor would waive this rule. However, I was told they would not continue to waive it in future promotions. In nearly the same sentence, however, the agent said:
1. We must tell you that you have to use the American Express card;
2. We cannot tell if you used the Amex card or not;
3. Yes, even though we cannot tell if you really use an Amex card, we must tell you that you are required to do so.
I got off the phone, left with the feeling that the SPG service center sounded stupid (for lack of a kinder word), or perhaps thinks the guests are dumb.
I would imagine these offers have some promotional partnership with Amex. So here is an intelligent sounding answer SPG should use if they publish the requirement but do not enforce it as a general rule:
"We have partnered with American Express in order to offer these promotions, and Amex shares in the cost of administration of the offers. If you do not have, or for some reason cannot use the Amex card, we will still honor the promotion for you as a gesture of goodwill. Yes, it is true that our computers don't actually track whether you use the Amex card, and as I said we will honor this, but we would ask you that if currently or in the future that if there is any way you can use Amex to do so that you will."
If the SPG computers do not track the guests form of payment, then I don't see why they would have to put a waiver in the record, or talk about it with a supervisor. I suppose, maybe, this would come into play if a guest had to fax in a bill for a stay, and upon seing the bill, the correspondence agent noticed that it was not paid with an Amex. Then again, though, does the SPG system have the software in place to credit a point stay, but not credit it towards Free Fridays? If the answer is no, are they planning to add form of payment ttracking capabilities to the software so in the future it does "really" matter what form of payment you use?
If a rule is not going to be enforced at all, then it should not be on the books. I think it was President Lincoln that said we should not make laws that we cannot enforce, because it makes us lose credibility. If SPG never intends to actually corss reference form of payment on these promotions, or if there computers simply don't track that, then how are they credible to have this rule? How are they credible to have the rule, tell me they have it, and in the same breath tell me they really cannot enforce it, but that I still must follow it?
Personally I am required for business to use a card, other than Amex, and it is beyond my control.
In closing, for the Summer Free Weekends offer, I got a rep on the phone who was much more honest and upfront than the recent person I talked too. I asked him to waive the rule, and he said that our systems do not track form of payments, and that there is no need or benefit for him to document the waiver in my account, because I'll get the free weekends no matter how I pay.
Is this rule sort of like be puting a sign on my house saying "watch dog," "burglar alarm," etc in the event that I have neither a dog or a security system?
Is the purpose of the rule to get those of us, who do not have an Amex, to refain from signing up for the offer because we are bing told we will not get the free weekends/certs? Is the rule a sort of deterant against people signing up who do not have Amex?
Just called again, to get a different reps perspective. This one told me there was no way they could waive the rule (well, guess thats worse than a reluctant waiver). This one said, in fact, reps cannot tell how you paid for a stay, but "the computer can tell....the computer does everything."
So either:
1. The rep knew full well that you could pay with any form of payment, but told me as a deterant only that I must use Amex;
2. Even SPG reps think the computers are smarter than they actually are; or
3. The SPG computers have some way of tracking form of payment that is new, or that we have not been made ware of.
Studies have well documented the fact that most people are very obedient. Across gender, class, race, geography, etc. I think it was Milgrims studies. Thats the one where there is an instructor and a teacher, and the research subject is the teacher. When the subject gets a question wrong, the teacher administers an electrical shock. There is also someone dressed like a doctor "helping" the teacher who of course is the research subject. Also, as the student keeps getting questions wrong, the shock gets more intense. After a while, the subject asks the teacher (the real subject in the experiment) not to shock them anymore. But, when they get the question wrong the "doctor" tells them to "shock them." And what did most subjects taken from the general population do? They shocked the person as long as the doctor (the perceived authority figure) told them to. This is only one study, but it illustrates how Americans are largely obedient and conforming.
Well, this is probably more than you bargained for wehn you clicked on this thread, so I'll step down and let anyone comment who would like to do so.
I recently spoke to SPG to try to get such a waiver of the Amex rule, and after puting me on hold, the rep reluctantly said that the supervisor would waive this rule. However, I was told they would not continue to waive it in future promotions. In nearly the same sentence, however, the agent said:
1. We must tell you that you have to use the American Express card;
2. We cannot tell if you used the Amex card or not;
3. Yes, even though we cannot tell if you really use an Amex card, we must tell you that you are required to do so.
I got off the phone, left with the feeling that the SPG service center sounded stupid (for lack of a kinder word), or perhaps thinks the guests are dumb.
I would imagine these offers have some promotional partnership with Amex. So here is an intelligent sounding answer SPG should use if they publish the requirement but do not enforce it as a general rule:
"We have partnered with American Express in order to offer these promotions, and Amex shares in the cost of administration of the offers. If you do not have, or for some reason cannot use the Amex card, we will still honor the promotion for you as a gesture of goodwill. Yes, it is true that our computers don't actually track whether you use the Amex card, and as I said we will honor this, but we would ask you that if currently or in the future that if there is any way you can use Amex to do so that you will."
If the SPG computers do not track the guests form of payment, then I don't see why they would have to put a waiver in the record, or talk about it with a supervisor. I suppose, maybe, this would come into play if a guest had to fax in a bill for a stay, and upon seing the bill, the correspondence agent noticed that it was not paid with an Amex. Then again, though, does the SPG system have the software in place to credit a point stay, but not credit it towards Free Fridays? If the answer is no, are they planning to add form of payment ttracking capabilities to the software so in the future it does "really" matter what form of payment you use?
If a rule is not going to be enforced at all, then it should not be on the books. I think it was President Lincoln that said we should not make laws that we cannot enforce, because it makes us lose credibility. If SPG never intends to actually corss reference form of payment on these promotions, or if there computers simply don't track that, then how are they credible to have this rule? How are they credible to have the rule, tell me they have it, and in the same breath tell me they really cannot enforce it, but that I still must follow it?
Personally I am required for business to use a card, other than Amex, and it is beyond my control.
In closing, for the Summer Free Weekends offer, I got a rep on the phone who was much more honest and upfront than the recent person I talked too. I asked him to waive the rule, and he said that our systems do not track form of payments, and that there is no need or benefit for him to document the waiver in my account, because I'll get the free weekends no matter how I pay.
Is this rule sort of like be puting a sign on my house saying "watch dog," "burglar alarm," etc in the event that I have neither a dog or a security system?
Is the purpose of the rule to get those of us, who do not have an Amex, to refain from signing up for the offer because we are bing told we will not get the free weekends/certs? Is the rule a sort of deterant against people signing up who do not have Amex?
Just called again, to get a different reps perspective. This one told me there was no way they could waive the rule (well, guess thats worse than a reluctant waiver). This one said, in fact, reps cannot tell how you paid for a stay, but "the computer can tell....the computer does everything."
So either:
1. The rep knew full well that you could pay with any form of payment, but told me as a deterant only that I must use Amex;
2. Even SPG reps think the computers are smarter than they actually are; or
3. The SPG computers have some way of tracking form of payment that is new, or that we have not been made ware of.
Studies have well documented the fact that most people are very obedient. Across gender, class, race, geography, etc. I think it was Milgrims studies. Thats the one where there is an instructor and a teacher, and the research subject is the teacher. When the subject gets a question wrong, the teacher administers an electrical shock. There is also someone dressed like a doctor "helping" the teacher who of course is the research subject. Also, as the student keeps getting questions wrong, the shock gets more intense. After a while, the subject asks the teacher (the real subject in the experiment) not to shock them anymore. But, when they get the question wrong the "doctor" tells them to "shock them." And what did most subjects taken from the general population do? They shocked the person as long as the doctor (the perceived authority figure) told them to. This is only one study, but it illustrates how Americans are largely obedient and conforming.
Well, this is probably more than you bargained for wehn you clicked on this thread, so I'll step down and let anyone comment who would like to do so.