American Express Membership Rewards - The Amex F/X scam continues-- time to contact Spitzer?

I've posted here before about Amex's taking advantage of cardholder ignorance and poor disclosure policies to "pad" the exchange rates used in charge U.S. cardholder accounts for foreign currency denominated transactions. When I have audited such transactions in the past (this takes a lot of work, requiring the building of a spreadsheet with historical exchange rates, faxing it to Amex, and then negotiating), I have been refunded exactly what I asked for, but now they have changed the cardholder agreement to eliminate any definitive conversion methodology.

Well, I stupidly, stupidly, used the card on a recent trip, and now find myself looking at an average unexplained add-on of 8-10%, in addition to the disclosed 2% mark-up.

If my own experiences (repeated instances in multiple countries over several years) are indicative, it strikes me that Amex may be generating a substantial portion of its profits through such activity. Imagine the total dollars involved if Amex is padding the foreign currency-denominated charges of its entire U.S. customer base by 8 - 18% (based on my own personal experience). I gave them a "pass" before, but I now am observing a pattern that is spread over multiple years and multiple countries.

I think this is serious enough to warrant criminal investigation and was planning on contacting Mr. Spitzer's office. Any thoughts?

As an alternative (or perhaps in addition), I'm considering auditing my entire account going back several years, detailing the over-charges, and retaining an attorney to represent me in obtaining a refund (it my case, it seems the magnitude of the overcharges would easily be enough to justify the expense of such an effort).

I'm interested in the thoughts/experiences of other cardholders with similar F/X related problems.

[This message has been edited by HKG_Flyer1 (edited Mar 22, 2004).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by HKG_Flyer1:
I think this is serious enough to warrant criminal investigation and was planning on contacting Mr. Spitzer's office. Any thoughts?</font>

Do you live in New York State?

I think it would be great if Mr. Spitzer focused on something other than on-line gambling.

QL

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Steve M:
Do you live in New York State?</font>

No, I live just up I-45 from you. However, I suspect that Mr. Spitzer, should he decide the issue will help him in his future campaign for political office, would have no difficulty finding a similarly situated Amex cardholder in his region to act as the nominal injured party.

If the overcharges are that egregious, wouldn't it make sense to contact a class action lawyer. The aggrieved class (all Amex customers who have FX transactions) would seem to be large enough to make it worthwhile for the lawyer to take on the job at no cost to you.

Sorry for the lack of clarity here but, apparently, a class action lawsuit is either in the works or is about to be settled by Amex. I remember reading in the WSJ a few days ago that Amex is about to settle a case for around $33 million regarding lack of disclosure notices for foreign exchange rates. Sorry I don't have more information.

Snowcap

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by HKG_Flyer1:
Well, I stupidly, stupidly, used the card on a recent trip, and now find myself looking at an average unexplained add-on of 8-10%, in addition to the disclosed 2% mark-up.</font>

That's interesting. I used my Amex in a number of countries a few years back and the exchange rates were reasonable, even for currencies like the Vietnamese Dong.

Which currencies did you get hit with the 8-10% on?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Ex Amex Card:
That's interesting. I used my Amex in a number of countries a few years back and the exchange rates were reasonable, even for currencies like the Vietnamese Dong.

Which currencies did you get hit with the 8-10% on?</font>

The most recent example is Thailand. I did another test transaction (which I have yet to check) in Hong Kong (in the past, Hong Kong has been an exception to the problem, with Amex using reasonable exchange rates). The example I cited in which I got Amex to rebate the overcharges was Argentina (where the mark-ups were something like 18%).

The strange thing is, they can never cite any explanation for what is happening. At one point, I was told that "this is the rate Amex's treasury department tells us to use." I literally had to walk them through the cardholder agreement, pointing out that the cardholder agreement actually required them to use the market rate. Then, I had to send them the actual exchange rates on the dates in question transaction by transaction, etc. before they ultimately credited my account.

I find it really hard to believe that a large international financial insitution like Amex is making a bunch of "mistakes" when it comes to making currency conversions... especially when the mistakes are in their favor 100% of the time. Yet, this is the way they have tried to portray it in their dealings with me.

I have a friend who is a class action lawyer and I'll discuss it with him when I get back to the States.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by HKG_Flyer1:
The most recent example is Thailand.
I find it really hard to believe that a large international financial insitution like Amex is making a bunch of "mistakes" when it comes to making currency conversions... especially when the mistakes are in their favor 100% of the time.</font>

Hmm, looking through my statements from a 3 month holiday in Thailand, New Zealand and America, you are right - they did consistently overcharge me by an average of 2.9%. One Euro transaction I made was overcharged by 4%

This is inspite of their terms and conditions (UK issued card) not mentioning anything about a loading of foreign exchange transactions. A bit annoying since the lack of loading was one of the reasons I got the card. Where do they get their rates, I wonder?

I now use a UK issued Nationwide VISA for foreign transactions, this doesn't have any loading and I have checked the rates to confirm this...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Ex Amex Card:
Hmm, looking through my statements from a 3 month holiday in Thailand, New Zealand and America, you are right - they did consistently overcharge me by an average of 2.9%. One Euro transaction I made was overcharged by 4%

Anecdotal evidence (conversations with a couple of friends who hold non-U.S. cards also confirmed some overcharges, but not as egregious as the U.S. card padding).


[QUOTE]This is inspite of their terms and conditions (UK issued card) not mentioning anything about a loading of foreign exchange transactions. A bit annoying since the lack of loading was one of the reasons I got the card. Where do they get their rates, I wonder?</font>

The U.S. terms & conditions used to reference a standard methodology... a reaonable person could assume that with Amex's daily f/x volume they get the best rates. I used oanda.com to get historical rates for purposes of disputing Amex and they accepted my calculations.

As an aside, I was first alerted to this problem by the "owner's rep" at a five-star hotel with substantial international traffic. When out on the town to dinner one night, I went to pay with Amex, and he insisted that if I really wanted to pay, I use Visa. He then told me that the hotel's management had been besieged with complaints from hotel guests who thought that the hotel had been responsible for the overcharges. He told me that the hotel had attempted to intercede on behalf of their guests with Amex, but that Amex wouldn't budge (so I was evidently more successful than others in resolving my problem).

I am extremely interested in this thread. Thanks for delving into the topic. Going back into my statements, it seems that my starwood amex charged me LESS than 2% in Brazil. For example, the following charge appeard on my statement for February 13:

70.00 BRASIL REAL BILLED AS
24.63

That is a rate of 0.3518571(rounded to 7 decimal places). According to oanda.com (thanks for the link) the interbank +2% credit card rate for that day is: 02/13/2004 0.3523080.
Using that rate, I should have been charged $24.66 not 24.63. Thus, it was actually BELOW the 2% rate. On other days is was between 2 and 3%
On mastercard it was between 2 and 3.5% for various days. I assume that they don't have the exact same rates as oanda.com. Although not much different. Any reason why Brasil would not get the whopping fees that others have been getting here?

[This message has been edited by grupie (edited Mar 25, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by grupie (edited Mar 25, 2004).]

I just noticed that the amex travels tools currency converter has slightly different numbers than oanda.com. (I am talking in the 4th decimal place and on- not earth shattering).
What's interesting about this is that Amex's site says "powered by oanda.com"!!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Ex Amex Card:
they consistently overcharge me by an average of 2.9%. One Euro transaction I made was overcharged by 4% </font>

Just checked the exchange rate posted on Amex's web site for that day and they actually loaded the rate by 4.25% on the Euro transaction.

Folks, if you make big money charges to your card in foreign currency then you want to check this out.

You can get the exchange rates from Amex

http://travel.americanexpress.com/travel/personal/resources/oanda/

Count me in for any class action cases against AMEX.

About 5 years ago I took AMEX to court in Australia and won my case on the steps of the court house. Had a very substantial win, In fact AMEX paid me exactly what I was seeking.

Regards,
Robert

Good thread!

I am looking at my Feb. 04 Amex statement (I have a CAD$ card)....

Jan. 14 Transaction Date
Jan. 15 Posting Date
Foreign spending USD$19
Amount in CAD$24.75

Now according to Amex Canada, The American Express treasury system has used conversion rates based on interbank rates (selected from customary industry sources) from the business day prior to the processing date, increased by a single conversion commission of 1.6%.

Based on this statement and Oanda.com, didn't AMEX over charge me?

Count me in for any class action cases against AMEX.

By the definition of a class action suit, if you meet the definition of the qualifying class you are automatically in, unless you choose to opt out. The down side is that by being a member of the class, you lose any rights to pursue independent litigation (i.e. you must accept the ruling for/against the class on your behalf).

How does Amex state that they will determine the exchange rate? Unless they state in their contract that they will use "x" and then don't, and the extent by which you disagree with their rate is only four percent or so, it's hard to imagine you have anything to complain about.

Many of the forex players think nothing of offering foreign-denominated paper or transfers at 8-10% above the neutral rate to American retail customers, and clearly aren't doing anything illegal. Instead of fussing about it (beyond telling everyone about it, which I loudly applaud) simply use one of the Visa or M/C cards issued by an institution that doesn't surcharge the built-in 1%.

If you're sensitive to the issues, you wouldn't be using AmEx in any case, since even their stated 2% is already twice the M/C and Visa rate.

How does Amex state that they will determine the exchange rate? Unless they state in their contract that they will use "x" and then don't, and the extent by which you disagree with their rate is only four percent or so, it's hard to imagine you have anything to complain about.

I don't have the exact wording from the contract to hand but to the best of my recollection, it was worded to the effect that they would convert the transaction at the "prevailing rate".

This was taken to mean the wholesale or Interbank rate, not just by me but also in reviews by major newspapers (including The Sunday Times) and financial institutions who identified the card as a good one to use abroard since it didn't charge any loading on foreign transactions.

Futhermore, other UK credit/charge card issuers make it clear in their terms and conditions that there is a "loading" of the wholesale exchange rate by 2.75% in their favour. American Express (UK) made no such statement in their T&Cs.

As for 4% being nothing to complain about - what planet are you from? :confused: What if you charged something to your card and Amex just added 4% because they felt like it? Why the hell should we pay a completely arbitary surcharge when the card issuer tells us there isn't one?

As for some foreign exchange money changers charging 10% commision, I am well aware of this - that is why I use a credit card instead! The thing is, the rip-off money changers will TELL YOU what exchange rate they are giving you whereas American Express just MAKE ONE UP that suits them and hope people don't notice.

BTW, any UK people out there if you charge a lot of foreign currency transactions then check out Nationwide VISA - No Annual Fee, No Foreign Transaction Loading, you get the Interbank Rate.

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/creditcard/using_the_card/using_card_abroad.htm

I recently received updated Ts&Cs for my UK Amex that stated that, to paraphrase, foreign currency charges would be converted from the currency of charge into USD at the prevailing rate +2.73%, and then from USD into GBP at the prevailing rate (no additional commission). This has also been stated at the bottom of the page when i check my balance on-line. This differs from the US practice.

I recently received updated Ts&Cs for my UK Amex that stated that, to paraphrase, foreign currency charges would be converted from the currency of charge into USD at the prevailing rate +2.73%, and then from USD into GBP at the prevailing rate (no additional commission). This has also been stated at the bottom of the page when i check my balance on-line. This differs from the US practice.

Yes, I got the same thing on my new Amex card and statement.

If they are writing to us to say that they are adding a 2.73% charge and making it such a prominent notice then surely this confirms that there was no mention of such a charge in the past.

Find your old T&Cs and see what they say about exchange rates. Then check historic exchange rates from Oanda.com - you may be in for a nasty shock... :mad:

The question is (not having my T&C to hand) what is the 'prevailing rate'? If this is a buy-sell spread (ie say 1.78 - 1.88 for wholesale $) then Amex is making a killing by transferring your balance from, say, Euros to $ (at 1.88) and then $ to Pounds (at 1.78).

If the 'prevailing rate' is the mid-point (ie 1.83 in my example above) then there is, of course, no additional rake-off for Amex.

By my calculation the markup on that transaction was 1%. Last time I checked, US/Canadian exchanges were marked up only 1% by AmEx although this is not stated in the T&C that I can find.

QL

Recently returned from a short trip to NY only to find I had failed to properly read the change in T&C's from amex and fell foul of this 2.7% charge although I was unconvinced about the rates they were using.

To make matters worse on a refund I lost £8 as listed below, why do Amex charge the 2.7% abroad?

Charge
28/03/04
£511.63 - 908.96 UNITED STATES DOLLAR

Refunded
01/04/04
£503.64 - 908.96 UNITED STATES DOLLAR

I'm now going to use my normal bank card for transactions abroad as this has no charge!

As far as I understand it, EVERY CREDIT AND DEBIT CARD in the UK, except for the Nationwide card flagged above, has a 2.75% foreign currency weighting. Amex is no better or worse than the rest, assuming - of course - that they all convert at the same wholesale rate.

Even with the 2.75%, however, this is not a bad deal. Your refund went through at $1.80 to the £. The sell rate at Travelex when I was at Heathrow last week was $1.73. You are still better off paying with your card than using travellers cheques or cash unless you find a money changer with an excellent rate.

How does Amex state that they will determine the exchange rate? Unless they state in their contract that they will use "x" and then don't, and the extent by which you disagree with their rate is only four percent or so, it's hard to imagine you have anything to complain about.

Many of the forex players think nothing of offering foreign-denominated paper or transfers at 8-10% above the neutral rate to American retail customers, and clearly aren't doing anything illegal.

The issue at hand is that Amex, prior to the recent change to the U.S. T&Cs, was contractually representing that they were using the interbank rate, when, in fact, they were apparently padding the rate in an undisclosed manner. I am familiar with forex players charging 8-10% for American retail customers, but they disclose the fact.

Not only did Amex apparently not disclose what they've been doing, they appear to have falsely represented to the media the manner in which they calculate charges (assuming the articles in the Wall Street Journal and several travel magazines contained accurate representations of their conversations with Amex representatives).

The fact that you think 4% is no big deal is apparently what Amex was counting on... kind of like the bar owner who turns a blind eye toward the bartender pocketing a few extra bucks for drinks that haven't been rung up.

Think about the financial impact on Amex. If they have systematically been padding a substantial percentage of int'l card transactions, they have profited significantly off of cardholder ignorance.

Yes, I got the same thing on my new Amex card and statement.

If they are writing to us to say that they are adding a 2.73% charge and making it such a prominent notice then surely this confirms that there was no mention of such a charge in the past.

Find your old T&Cs and see what they say about exchange rates. Then check historic exchange rates from Oanda.com - you may be in for a nasty shock... :mad:

I did check my old Ts&Cs to see if this was a real change, and as best I can tell the new termns are not inconsistent with the old. They previously provided only a general statement that the amounts would be converted by Amex at rates they determined, or something similar. The new specification could actually be more customer friendly.

The 2.73% charged by Amex is actually nominally better than the 2.75% on my UK Citibank Visa.

I thought I recalled reading that the new US T&C's said they could use a rate "convenient to Amex," which was pretty vague, maybe even a bit scary, and then charge 2% in addition. As you can see in another thread, I am considering dumping Amex for large international charges just on the basis that my MC only charges 1%. It would be shocking if the rate they used was terrible in addition.

I would be most interested to learn more about this.

i was happy to find this thread. i am currently 3 phonecalls into Amex over this same issue. i travelled from the us to europe for business earlier this month and when i returned i found several discrepencies in the rates i was charged. the mistakes are all with the Euro to USD, but they vary in percentages. So far, amex has given me a good will adjustment to cover the overcharges. but, i told them that this has really shaken my confidence in their accounting and i would like them to audit all of my overseas charges from the last two years. and i want a good explanation for why this is happening. they claim that they are doing this., but i've already had to call back twice and each time, i'm to "just wait longer."
does anyone know of a lawsuit regarding this issue? i would be interested in supporting such an effort.

i was happy to find this thread. i am currently 3 phonecalls into Amex over this same issue. i travelled from the us to europe for business earlier this month and when i returned i found several discrepencies in the rates i was charged. the mistakes are all with the Euro to USD, but they vary in percentages. So far, amex has given me a good will adjustment to cover the overcharges. but, i told them that this has really shaken my confidence in their accounting and i would like them to audit all of my overseas charges from the last two years. and i want a good explanation for why this is happening. they claim that they are doing this., but i've already had to call back twice and each time, i'm to "just wait longer."
does anyone know of a lawsuit regarding this issue? i would be interested in supporting such an effort.

I have become distracted with running my business since I raised this issue a few months ago, so I haven't done anything on my end... other than stop using Amex for foreign travel.

Coincidentally, I happened to be going through my old Amex summary from last time I undertook the effort to audit my charges a couple of years ago and found that they ultimately refunded back several hundred bucks.... and that was from just one trip!! This is a major, major issue and the money at stake here is substantial.

This is a major, major issue and the money at stake here is substantial.

Amex are not alone here, Allied Irish Bank recently got rumbled for overcharging their foreign exchange customers.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2004/0507/4056131284HM1AIB.html

a bit of follow up to my previous post.

After four or five calls to AMEX about this, they were able to audit all of my overseas charges for the past few years on the two AMEX cards which I used. In the end, they are refunding me approximately $25. I worked with a very helpful and pleasant Rep in the FT. Lauderdale office. I would be happy to refer her, if someone is going through the same trouble - simply send me a PM.

On the other question of "how the heck can this be happening?". i was told that my concerns would be passed on to the appropriate consumer affairs department. i don't expect a reply.

i have still not learned of any movement for litigation, but someone does hear of a case against amex regarding this issue, please post here.

Thank you.

...past few years on the two AMEX cards which I used. In the end, they are refunding me approximately $25.

$25? I understand there is "principle" involved, but all of the headache and work for a $25 refund?

Of course, if AMEX is doing this over the course of a year or time, times a few hundred thousand people, it is indeed significant.

However, one has to argue what, if anything, will be done about it without the threat of a class action lawsuit.

yes, indeed.
all the headache for $25. and you're right it is the principle involved. also, the fact that this could be happening across the board to many thousands, if not millions of customers.

and that's why i'm going through trouble of writing this up and posting here on flyertalk. i'm trying to get the word out about this theft.

HKG_Flyer (or others): Could you provide an actual example (date charged, amount in local curr, US$ rate Amex charged you ,etc.)? I've made monthly (large) charges to my AX SPG card for the past 3 years and can't find any case where I was charges more than the OANADA rate + 2%. thanks.

I pay very close attention to this as I charge several thousand dollars worth of foreign items per month to my Centurion card. I always find the largest item and work out the exchange rate from that for my expense reports. I've been doing this for several years and the last time I saw a significant error was back during the Asian currency crisis when prices were severely fluctuating.

I have become distracted with running my business since I raised this issue a few months ago, so I haven't done anything on my end... other than stop using Amex for foreign travel.That's what I've done. I feel a lot better about voting with my wallet. It's easier than trying to audit their mistakes.

HKG_Flyer (or others): Could you provide an actual example (date charged, amount in local curr, US$ rate Amex charged you ,etc.)?

Here's a randomly selected charge from one of my old statements.

On September 19th 2002 I made a 110 Euro charge on my card. This was converted to GBP as 72.44 which means that I brought Euros at a rate of 0.6585 GBP to the Euro.

According to Oanda.com, the GBP to EUR rates on the 19 Sept 2002 were:

Rate and Amex Loading
Average: 0.63120 4.33%
High: 0.63300 4.03%
Low: 0.62950 4.61%

Euros seem to be the worst for this loading. Other transactions are not so bad.

:mad:

yes, indeed.
all the headache for $25. and you're right it is the principle involved. also, the fact that this could be happening across the board to many thousands, if not millions of customers.

and that's why i'm going through trouble of writing this up and posting here on flyertalk. i'm trying to get the word out about this theft.

But if principle is the key, why are you bothering with Amex at all? There are plenty of banks offering Visa/Mc that still do forex at 1%.

But if principle is the key, why are you bothering with Amex at all? There are plenty of banks offering Visa/Mc that still do forex at 1%.

I don't use Amex abroad anymore but we are angry because we were mislead about this for some time. American Express was widely touted in the media as the card which didn't "load" foreign exchange rates and the T&Cs that came with the card made no mention of any loading. That's why I (and many others) used it for foreign charges.

It's interesting to see that there are American card issuers who only charge 1% loading. In the UK, almost every Visa and MasterCard adds 2.75% to the interbank rate when making foreign currency transactions. The only exception to this that I know of is the Nationwide Visa which gives the interbank rate with no loading.

Anyone care to share what you said/ whom you asked to talk with when you called Amex? Did you give them specific examples before asking to audit everything?

I have spent maybe $15-$20K on my SPG Amex overseas in the past two years and obviously would like to see if there are some costs to recoupe?

Unfortunately I am not that organised that I could easily to go back all my statements.

zeikka

here's an example from the Sheraton Hotel in Munich Germany on 25 April 2004. The Euro charge was 93.20. Which appeared on my bill as $113.35. When the math is done, it is evident that AMEX overcharged me by $0.95 on this one particular charge. Due to my request, they have since refunded it.

To the poster who asked what to say, I simply called 1-800-AXP-1000 and I explained the situation. I asked for a name and extension number of the individual with whom I spoke and was able to call her back. I had to call her approximately 3 times to resolve this, but in the end it worked.

here's an example from the Sheraton Hotel in Munich Germany on 25 April 2004. The Euro charge was 93.20. Which appeared on my bill as $113.35. When the math is done, it is evident that AMEX overcharged me by $0.95 on this one particular charge. Due to my request, they have since refunded it.

Do you mean that I would have to speficy every single charge that I want them to investigate? I don't have the patience or energy (exactly what they seem to count on) to go over hundreds of transactions that can be anywhere from few pound charges at London Starbucks to $1000+ for longer hotel stays in Australia.

Since I am lazy, I am hoping that there is some place just to call and have them "investigate" all my overseas charges for the past few years.

--zeikka--

yes, of course no one wants to go over every single charge. and i certainly did not. i instructed the AMEX rep to pull all of my statements and for them to do the math on every overseas charge. they did this and called me back. i suppose, if i was really the suspicious type i would re-check their math, but again, it's too much work for me at this moment.
Why don't you give them a call and see what they say?

This thread prompted me to look again at my latest conversion rates. For several transactions in Hong Kong in early May, the Amex rate was about 2% worse than the central rate.

For my World Perks Visa card the rate was 2.85-3.02% worse. Which MC/Visa cards charge only 1%?

The shocker was that using a Chase bank card in a HSBC ATM to withdraw funds from a checking account, I was hit for 3.4%. Chase tells me that they didn't charge me anything but I doubt that HSBC was responsible for the entire difference.

All cards were US based.

I think that this issue is a more general one than just for Amex and relates to all kinds of FX conversions. Perhaps it warrants a discussion on a more general board.

The shocker was that using a Chase bank card in a HSBC ATM to withdraw funds from a checking account, I was hit for 3.4%. Chase tells me that they didn't charge me anything but I doubt that HSBC was responsible for the entire difference.

Lots of cards charge a percentage commission when you take out a cash advance with the card. You need to check the Terms & Conditions of your card very carefully. It does sound like you have been hit with the exchange rate scam too though.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

Ok after reading this thread, I checked my last SPG Amex statement and noticed discrepancies in the 2% fee so I contacted American Express. When others have called to dispute the exchange rate did AMEX temporarily remove the charge from your account? I called regarding 4 transactions and they were all temporarily removed. I think I might call AMEX back to verify that they understand I am not disputing the charge, but their currency conversion.

Ok after reading this thread, I checked my last SPG Amex statement and noticed discrepancies in the 2% fee so I contacted American Express. When others have called to dispute the exchange rate did AMEX temporarily remove the charge from your account? I called regarding 4 transactions and they were all temporarily removed. I think I might call AMEX back to verify that they understand I am not disputing the charge, but their currency conversion.

Being at work I don't have access to my statements, but I decided to do a charge from yesterday as an example.

Called Centurion Services, they did the math, and agreed I had been overcharged by about $2. Instant credit to the account. Again, it's the principle. I'll be curious to see when I get home and dig out the statements how common this is on larger things like hotels.

Do you mean that I would have to speficy every single charge that I want them to investigate? I don't have the patience or energy (exactly what they seem to count on) to go over hundreds of transactions that can be anywhere from few pound charges at London Starbucks to $1000+ for longer hotel stays in Australia.

Since I am lazy, I am hoping that there is some place just to call and have them "investigate" all my overseas charges for the past few years.

--zeikka--

This is what I did for one trip to Argentina... where the overcharges were particularly outrageous. I put together a spreadsheet, showed the source of my conversation rates, etc., and ended up getting over $200 back!!

There appears to be a method to their madness.... I have found most problems in countries experiencing volatility in exchange rates. Perhaps they think cardholders won't be any the wiser. In contrast, I've found the conversion rates in Hong Kong (with minimal USD/HKD exchange rate volatility) to be nearly spot on.

There appears to be a method to their madness.... I have found most problems in countries experiencing volatility in exchange rates. Perhaps they think cardholders won't be any the wiser. In contrast, I've found the conversion rates in Hong Kong (with minimal USD/HKD exchange rate volatility) to be nearly spot on.

I went through and did an audit of my charges from the last year over USD 100, and the place I found the most problems was with the EUR and CAD. Both were regularly off by at least 0.5% - and you're right, I couldn't find a single HKD transaction off by more than 0.1%. THB and ZAR were off from 0.3 and 0.5%.

I did three transaction last wednesday for various US dollar amounts under $200 and found that the exchange rate I got was 1.605 to change £GBP into $US. I think I will be calling amex to investigate that, but in the mean time could someone inform me whether the rate I got was ok. The transactions were placed last wednesday and saturday and they appeared on my statement on Monday.

I did three transaction last wednesday for various US dollar amounts under $200 and found that the exchange rate I got was 1.605 to change £GBP into $US. I think I will be calling amex to investigate that, but in the mean time could someone inform me whether the rate I got was ok. The transactions were placed last wednesday and saturday and they appeared on my statement on Monday.

Sounds like you got hit pretty hard. :eek:

http://www.oanda.com/convert/fxhistory

06/16/2004 1.83170
06/19/2004 1.83920

Check your terms and conditions to see how much loading they should apply to the transaction, in the UK it is 2.75% it may be different for USA cards.

Also remember that if you get a cash advance then they will charge you an extra commission on that, once again, check your T&Cs.

I don't agree with HKG_Flyer1, I have a GBP card and EURO transactions have often been over charged by 4% or more. These are not what you would call volatile currencies! :p

Hi Ex Amex Card

Nice to meet you by the way, even if it in cyber space.

I didn't take a cash advance, it was a paypal purcahse. Paypal charge the transaction on the AmEx card in US Dollars. They charged 160 odd dollars and AmEx converted it into £100.50 which equated to a rate of 1.605.

Seems I will be complaining again tomorrow.

Thanks

Kiran

one more follow-up to my story.
it occurred to me, that although AMEX refunded the overcharged amounts to me, that because some of the charges went back more than a year, that i had also paid a finance charge.

the way i see it is, AMEX stole money from me, and then charged me interest on the stolen money!

so, i had to call twice more to explain this and request a refund. they told me today that they will post this refund for the APR as a "goodwill" adjustment.

for me, it's not a large sum, perhaps a couple of dollars, but it's the principle involved. for others, with hundreds of dollars in "mistakes", perhaps the finance charge becomes a bigger issue.

for me, it's not a large sum, perhaps a couple of dollars, but it's the principle involved. for others, with hundreds of dollars in "mistakes", perhaps the finance charge becomes a bigger issue.

It is an issue. American Express has millions of customers. If the average "over-charge" is $10.00, then you are looking at millions of dollars in extra profits.

As such, American Express knows only a small percentage of people will bother to complain about $2.00 here or $5.00 there. And the ones they do have to credit is not going to hurt their profits, because the goal here is overcharging on volume.

Lots of cards charge a percentage commission when you take out a cash advance with the card. You need to check the Terms & Conditions of your card very carefully. It does sound like you have been hit with the exchange rate scam too though.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

Thanks for your advice. I did carefully explain that it was an ATM withdrawal and the reply from Chase was that it did not get booked as a cash advance. I haven't had more time to check but I will try to find out from HSBC what they really charge.

Has anyone else checked on the rates of their ATM withdrawals?

...I literally had to walk them through the cardholder agreement...

The AmEx agreement is large, but I had no idea it was getting to the point where you could walk through it. They need to pare it down.

I had a recnt charge in Indian Rupees for $8,600 that recently came thru at $9,300 translated in Hong Kong Dollars.

WOW.

One call to AMEX and a credit was provided pending an investiagtion...bu tthat's a whopping difference.

I think there's something institutional about thes ripoffs.

I've made a point, of late, to generally NOT use my US-billed Amex card outside the US. I did notice, however, that a couple of charges that I did make in Iceland show up on my online bill only listing a $US total. I assume that they still print the amount of the charged currency on the printed bill, eh? I deliberately made 3 charges on 3 credit cards on the same day at the same merchant in Iceland to see the differences in exchange rates, BTW.

It's interesting to see that there are American card issuers who only charge 1% loading. In the UK, almost every Visa and MasterCard adds 2.75% to the interbank rate when making foreign currency transactions. The only exception to this that I know of is the Nationwide Visa which gives the interbank rate with no loading.

There are now five UK card issuers who don't charge 2.75%. See this page (http://www.nicholashodder.com/scams.htm#credcardfx).

I audited my statements back to 98. Out of 121 transactions totalling $12043.44, I made $28.08 over AMEX. My conversion was done using the interbank USD to Foreign Currency rate times 0.98 to reflect the plus 2% AMEX levies.

EUR seems to vary from they charging me less than they ought (0.5% discount) to overcharging by 1.5%.

AMEX seems to have given me a 2.45% discount on JPY back in 98 but hit me with interbank plus 6.5% on PKR last year. Looks like low-volume currencies have the worst rates.

I have been in contact with Amex for the last 8 weeks on their currency conversions. I stated that they had overcharged me.

At first they gave me a credit while under investigation. Then I got a letter back stating that they couldn't find a 0.01 cent mistake. I have no idea what they investigated.

I phoned the special Platinum phone number (not the one on the card) and said that I wanted a new claim in because the first claim was not put in right and that I had not in fact claimed for 0.01 cents but fhad claims for over billing on foreign exchange rates.

Yesterday I got a letter saying it was up to me to find the errors and then they would look at them.

This was contrary to my conversation with Amex, when she told me they would go back 7 years and check the exchange rates charged to me.

I phoned into the special number and had a talk with Micheal. I gave him two random charges from last months statement. (Australian dollar conversions) both instances where charged wrong. I then told him that since they had an access data base they could check it much faster than me.

He replied that I had to prove the discrepancy and give all details. I pointed out that in just two recent examples (last night) I was charged the wrong amount, so technically I had proved my point of them charging me incorrectly.

This argument was of no validity. He wanted me to list every charge and then they would investigate.

I think at this point, it is not only a contentious issue with Amex's arrogance, but also fraud on their part.

Is there a class action Attorney on this board that would like to take this further?

This thread has been going on for awhile, and maybe its about time we banded together and went public with this outright deception and fraud.

Regards,
Robert

Is there a class action Attorney on this board that would like to take this further?

This thread has been going on for awhile, and maybe its about time we banded together and went public with this outright deception and fraud.

Regards,
Robert

Let me know if this goes forward. AmEx has "been happy" to credit me the difference on 52 charges in the past 6 months. I've given up on using them out of the US, except when FHR and such are at stake.

I'm amazed Amex continues to do this... well, maybe not so amazed. Look at their overall profits-- I'm guessing that this F/X scam has become one of their biggest profit centers. Really.

I, too, have had each and every overcharge credited back in the exact amount I requested.... the fact that they continue to roll over so quickly when called on their B.S. suggests that they are all too aware of what they are doing.

If someone in my company was caught doing something similar they would be fired and possibly turned over to the D.A. for prosecution. I don't understand how they got internal legal department sign off on this policy.

I've used both my corporate Amex and my personal Skymiles Amex abroad. UK, New Zealand, Brazil, Hong Kong, Macau, and two different places in China. The only thing that's caused any discrepancy has been the transaction dates. Amex seems to calculate the exchange rate when the transaction gets to its system. In many places, particularly those in Brazil and Asia, they use either a different electronic system or the old-fashioned paper system. Sometimes, the transaction date on the Amex statement is actually 5 to 7 days later than it really happened. This has led to both higher and lower exchange rates, depending on how the market moved.

One thing that has always given me the correct exchange rate, however, is cash from ATM machines. That is dispensed using an instantaneous exchange rate, as best I can tell. You pay a little extra in fees, but nowhere near the 8-10% you've seen. Maybe one solution, if Spitzer doesn't come to your aid, is to get cash abroad and pay for as many things as you can in cash. At least test the theory - process a card purchase, like a hotel stay, and then immediately go get a little cash. See what the difference is in the rates when the statement posts.

The only thing that's caused any discrepancy has been the transaction dates.

I've had two transactions go through on the same day and one was overcharged by 3% while the other was overcharged by just 1%. This was a stable currency and there is no way that the currency shifted by 2% in month - let alone a day or a week. :confused:

The amounts were about £100 and £300.

When I first started looking in to this problem, I, too, gave these guys the benefit of a doubt. However, the rates they were using couldn't be explained away no matter what conversion date they were using. When I've tried to press Amex for an explanation as to what the h3ll they're doing... they've never been able to give me a rationale.... they just credit the overcharge back to my account.

Editing to note that I received a rate of interbank+2.14% this month in Australia on my new TrueEarnings Amex. Received +1% on MBNA Worldpoints MC.

well, it's happened to me again.

i made a purchase for 3,150 South African Rand on 3 December 2004 and it appeared on my statement for $564.48. When I checked www.OANDA.com, and did the math, including the 2% fee, it turns out that Amex attempted to steal $26 from me on this one charge. When I called them to complain about the theft, they offered to credit my account for the amount, plus the finance charge.

I realize that this activity is old news, but more interesting is that I told the CS rep that this practice is rampant at Amex and I referred him to this thread. He said that he was familar with FT and that he would take a look at the thread.

So, I'm hopeful that this issue will be addressed soon.

First time I notice this thread.

For UK people, note that unless I am mistaken, AMEX UK for any foreign transaction first it into $ and then into £ charging its 2.25% twice, ie about 5%. I noticed this in their T&C some time ago and stopped using it for foreign transactions, except in the US.

For UK people, note that unless I am mistaken, AMEX UK for any foreign transaction first it into $ and then into £ charging its 2.25% twice, ie about 5%. I noticed this in their T&C some time ago and stopped using it for foreign transactions, except in the US.

No, they only charge you 2.75% once. There is no fee for the USD to GBP part of the transaction (unless the transaction was in USD). I checked a Euro transaction I did a couple of weeks ago and the exchange rate was pretty much spot on for the 2.75% fee.

Nationwide Building Society in the UK have a Visa Credit Card with no charge for foreign transactions. It's worth getting if you do a lot of foreign charges.

This thread has been going on for awhile, and maybe its about time we banded together and went public with this outright deception and fraud.

I am apalled by the number of "errors" reported here. Systematic errors that consistently work in the favor of AMEX is not "error" in my book - it's called disceptive business practices. I am going to review my international charges soon to see if I have been overcharged as well. I never pay attention to that details, just assuming that it's done via computer a hundred million times a day - so how could they screw up?!! :confused:

For those who have been overcharged and Amex refuses to make you whole, my advice is to "Spitzer" them. Contact the New York State Attorney General office, show them your evidence and all AMEX letters, and tell them to read this thread. There is nobody that these slick finance guys are more scared of than the NY AG Elliot Spitzer. He has made many Wall Street firms paid dearly for bad business practices, and his office has shown a great interest in rooting out consumer fraud cases perpetuated by big financial companies.

Just checking my statements from travel in US and Canada and there seems to be about a 2.5 - 3% load when converted to UK GBP, which is what I was expecting.

Tranasactions on the same days using my Mastercard and Visa always came in at a worse overall rate, so ill stick with the Amex card for now, but its worth keeping an eye on - thanks!

No, they only charge you 2.75% once. There is no fee for the USD to GBP part of the transaction (unless the transaction was in USD). I checked a Euro transaction I did a couple of weeks ago and the exchange rate was pretty much spot on for the 2.75% fee.

Nationwide Building Society in the UK have a Visa Credit Card with no charge for foreign transactions. It's worth getting if you do a lot of foreign charges.

Thanks.

See below AMEX's T&C.

http://www10.americanexpress.com/sif/cda/page/0,1641,12707,00.asp

FOREIGN CHARGES

If you make a Charge in a currency other than in Pound Sterling, that Charge will be converted into Pound Sterling. The conversion will take place on the date the Charge is processed by American Express, which may not be the same date on which you made your Charge as it depends on when the Charge was submitted to American Express. If the Charge is not in U.S. dollars, the conversion will be made through U.S. dollars, by converting the Charge amount into U.S. dollars and then by converting the U.S. dollar amount into Pound Sterling. If the Charge is in U.S. dollars, it will be converted directly into Pound Sterling.

Unless a specific rate is required by applicable law, you understand and agree that the American Express treasury system will use conversion rates based on interbank rates that it selects from customary industry sources on the business day prior to the processing date, increased by a single conversion commission of 2.73%. If Charges are converted by third parties prior to being submitted to us, any conversions made by those third parties will be at rates selected by them.

Thanks. See below AMEX's T&C.

Unless a specific rate is required by applicable law, you understand and agree that the American Express treasury system will use conversion rates based on interbank rates that it selects from customary industry sources on the business day prior to the processing date, increased by a single conversion commission of 2.73%.

It is worth noting that this 2.73% commission is fairly new. Up until about 2 years ago there was no commission charged on foreign transactions.

Seems like the Brits pay a higher fee. My statement points out that a 2% fee is added to my foriegn currency transactions.

Seems like the Brits pay a higher fee. My statement points out that a 2% fee is added to my foriegn currency transactions.

We always do. Being ripped off is a national sport. :(

I have the SPG Amex card, and used it on a recent trip abroad. I was charged 2-3% commission on my overseas charges, which I calculated this way:

FX Amount
_______________________________________________ = native amount
(interbank rate for that date Amex recorded the charge)

(Amount charged by amex) - (native amount)
______________________________________ = commission percentage
(native amount)

This was for THB (2%), HKD (2%), LKR (3%).

Well, American Express continued to over charge me for some purchases made in South African Rand this week. I called them about it and spoke with another supervisor, who said she would do something about it - but I doubt it.

Anyhow, I found a law firm in California that is currently engaged in a class action suit against American Express for this practice. Details can be found at:

http://www.lieffcabraser.com/american-express-fees.htm

Some of the posters on this discussion thread may want to consider joining that suit.

Anyhow, I found a law firm in California that is currently engaged in a class action suit against American Express for this practice. Details can be found at:

http://www.lieffcabraser.com/american-express-fees.htm

Some of the posters on this discussion thread may want to consider joining that suit.Just today I received notice about either the same or a similar class action case, Edward LiPuma vs. American Express Company, et al. It relates to foreign conversion fees charged between February 1, 1999 and October 15, 2004. Info on that can be found here: http://www.lipumasettlement.com
If you opened your account before February 1, 1999 you may recieve a payment of up to $15 plus all conversion "fees" you were charged between February 1, 1999 and October 15, 2004.

Are these cases the same? If I belong to the class of this one will I be excluded from the other one?

Also, it asks for my account number on the class action member form. I assume that my account number is the same even though my card number has changed a couple of times and that they'll be able to figure it out. Opinions?

Heh, I just came here to post that, too.

(IANAL.) But yes, you must exclude yourself by February 14, 2005 if you want to participate in a different class action lawsuit. It appears in Exhibit E, para 15 (pg. 57) (http://lipumasettlement.com/LiPumaAmStAgSe.pdf) that the other suits have been stayed.

By the way, here are the terms, from the same document:

- 100% of the FX amount between February 1, 1999 and October 15, 2004. (Calculated from AMEX records.)
- $15 if account was closed before February 1, 1999.
- Additional $15 if account was opened prior to, and remained open after, 2/1/99 and conversion made because AMEX doesn't have the records.
- Amount is prorated down to a total $75 million if exceeded.

The settlement seems reasonable enough for me. I'm going to dig up all of my past AMEX account numbers and submit them. I don't think that could hurt.

The settlement seems reasonable enough for me. I'm going to dig up all of my past AMEX account numbers and submit them. I don't think that could hurt.Do you think we need to supply all card numbers? If so, on a single form? Just the latest number? It doesn't really say, though I could call the number on the papers...

(IANAL.) But yes, you must exclude yourself by February 14, 2005 if you want to participate in a different class action lawsuit. It appears in Exhibit E, para 15 (pg. 57) (http://lipumasettlement.com/LiPumaAmStAgSe.pdf) that the other suits have been stayed. Actually, paragraph 15 refers to paragraph 10 which states you have to opt out by October 15, 2004. Did I miss something?

Paragraph 15 certainly refers to a LOT of cases against Amex regarding this.

It is worth noting that this 2.73% commission is fairly new. Up until about 2 years ago there was no commission charged on foreign transactions.

This is not true. I had a gold Amex card in the early 90's. I used in Costa Rica and they charged 2-3% above the current rate at that time. This was the only card that I had at the time that did this. They did refund the difference, and I cancelled the card when the renewal came up.

Hey everyone! First time poster....now getting to the point....

I recently orderd some shirts from the UK....the bill came to 106 pounds. At the time the conversion rate was at 1.88. With change, the bill comes to $201.16, American Express charged me $204.94. It is only $3, but I intend to keep doing business with this shirt company in the UK. In the first place however, I got free shipping and they knocked 50% off because of me being a loyal customer, and it was combined with an American Express special. Do I cause a stink? Or let the $3 slide?

Do I cause a stink? Or let the $3 slide?It is (was) your $3. At what amount do you start to complain? I have no idea, but I'd either complain or never use their card in a foreign country again.

Until now I've chosen the latter approach but I assume I'll be getting something back from the lawsuit mentioned above. I'll probably get a whole $15 or so!

Just today I received notice about either the same or a similar class action case

it asks for my account number on the class action member form. Opinions?

This website is virtually nothing except a form which asks for your card numbers and billing address and send it to a PO Box Address.

Does this ring alarm bells with anyone else? :confused:

It may be bonafide, but I would be very, very careful about giving out this sort of imformation without getting independent confirmation first. If anyone has already sent their details to these people then I suggest that they contact Amex and ask Amex to confirm that this is a valid case ASAP.

I had a transaction for $100 IN USD in Bolivia, that was billed at $102 and change. The transaction slip is clearly a US Dollar slip, and the amount is inscribed in dollars. Do they think that people will not notice the overcharge on a USD transaction while abroad?

I had a transaction for $100 IN USD in Bolivia, that was billed at $102 and change. The transaction slip is clearly a US Dollar slip, and the amount is inscribed in dollars. Do they think that people will not notice the overcharge on a USD transaction while abroad?

That doesn't sound like an overcharge to me, at least by the terms of the cardmember agreement. They claim to charge a 2% fee on all transactions from outside of the United States. Note that it doesn't say "in other than US Dollars" but specifies a geographical area to which the surcharge applies. Not that I'm agreeing with it - I just think that this instance is a bit different than what people's main complaints about the currency rates with Amex are.

That doesn't sound like an overcharge to me, at least by the terms of the cardmember agreement. They claim to charge a 2% fee on all transactions from outside of the United States. Note that it doesn't say "in other than US Dollars" but specifies a geographical area to which the surcharge applies. Not that I'm agreeing with it - I just think that this instance is a bit different than what people's main complaints about the currency rates with Amex are.

Yes, but from that point of view, it seems that they (AMEX) want to have their cake and eat it too. For example, I phoned in an order to a company overseas and used my credit card to make a purchase in a foreign currency. I was physically in the USA when I placed the phone call and made the transaction, but of course I was still charged the 2% fee, in addition to being mis-charged for the transaction of course.

Yes, but from that point of view, it seems that they (AMEX) want to have their cake and eat it too. For example, I phoned in an order to a company overseas and used my credit card to make a purchase in a foreign currency. I was physically in the USA when I placed the phone call and made the transaction, but of course I was still charged the 2% fee, in addition to being mis-charged for the transaction of course.

I don't agree with the charges, but your strawman here is on fire. If the transaction (AMEX) is processed outside the US, you get the charge.

Do you think we need to supply all card numbers? If so, on a single form? Just the latest number? It doesn't really say, though I could call the number on the papers...

Yeah, Amex really should know all of your other card numbers, so you shouldn't have to, but who knows. I tried calling the number, and it's just tons of prerecorded stuff. I realized it won't be easy to find those old numbers, so I probably won't bother. Seems like an awful lot of work for maybe $20 more. There's no way in hell that Amex is going to reach that $70 million payout, IMO.

This website is virtually nothing except a form which asks for your card numbers and billing address and send it to a PO Box Address.

Does this ring alarm bells with anyone else?

Well, you should also receive a paper mailing. The toll free number works. And the site whois (http://whois.sc/lipumasettlement.com) lists American Express as the registrant. I was a little skeptical of the aexp.com, but americanexpress.com has the same contacts listed.

Just today I received notice about either the same or a similar class action case, Edward LiPuma vs. American Express Company, et al. It relates to foreign conversion fees charged between February 1, 1999 and October 15, 2004. Info on that can be found here: http://www.lipumasettlement.com


Are these cases the same? If I belong to the class of this one will I be excluded from the other one?

Also, it asks for my account number on the class action member form. I assume that my account number is the same even though my card number has changed a couple of times and that they'll be able to figure it out. Opinions?

got mine today too!

I have all of my Amex account numbers (corporate, platinum, starwood, and delta), but do I need to submit just one form or 4 separate forms? I tried calling the phone number but didn't find the answer. Is anyone submitting multiple forms or are you just listing all of your account numbers on one?

Does anyone have any more info on the setlement, particularly with regard to multiple accounts & submission of multiple forms? (see above)

Anyone from the UK claiming this as well?

There is a Class Action under way now. I keep getting letters from them, referring to the "LiPuma Settlement", although it may be specific to only one country (Turkey is mentioned).

Does anyone have any more info on the setlement, particularly with regard to multiple accounts & submission of multiple forms? (see above)

xyzzy,

While I haven't heard anything directly from LiPuma, my company told all corporate card holders to submit separate forms for each account. However, after I read the settlement, I'm not sure this is necessary.

I have all of my Amex account numbers (corporate, platinum, starwood, and delta), but do I need to submit just one form or 4 separate forms? I tried calling the phone number but didn't find the answer. Is anyone submitting multiple forms or are you just listing all of your account numbers on one?

I believe all of your AMEX cards are linked in their records (after all, each one gives the same "member since" date), so if you give them one number (probably your charge card rather than one of the credit cards) they can locate the rest automatically.

That said, I'm submitting one claim, but annotating the numbers of all of my AMEX card accounts on that claim.

P.S. I'm not sure if that includes corporate cards (I don't have one), since they may be linked to the company rather than to you personally.

I just found out about the Lipuma settlement last week since I am overseas and not seeing my mail. It seems that this means it is too late to opt out of the settlement because of the Feb 14 deadline.

When did the actual mailing reach most of you?

Any significant reasons to go with one of the other suits/claims?

OK, so the class action settlement may take care of these previous issues, but what is their current practice - are they actually following their T&Cs? Any recent experiences to report? Should I just skip AMEX in favor of DC/MC or some other MC or Visa when I travel to Europe next month?

Just used it in Canada as a test and they're still charging 2% plus a bad exchange rate.

QL

Just used it in Canada as a test and they're still charging 2% plus a bad exchange rate.

QL

I have always felt that American Express uses a bad rate for foreign exchange transactions, this thread makes me see that I'm not alone. Will be using my Capital One M/C for foreign purchases (market rate conversion, no 1% fee).

Recently on a trip to Israel, Amex was giving me 4.4 NIS/$, while the bank gave me 4.49NIS/$ on ATM withdrawl, including whatever fee they tacked on for using a foreign ATM.

Given that CC companies already get 2-3%, I find it outrageous that they charge this fee.

Does anyone have any updated info on this? I'm getting an SPG Amex for myself, and thinking about getting one for my company. We will use it overseas very often. Is it a bad idea? Or has AMEX mended their ways?

Does anyone have any updated info on this? I'm getting an SPG Amex for myself, and thinking about getting one for my company. We will use it overseas very often. Is it a bad idea? Or has AMEX mended their ways?

If you want a credit card to use for different currencies then get one that doesn't charge a conversion fee or cash advance fee at all. There are a few cards around which give you the bank rate with no markup.

Amex is not one of them.

Have a look at http://www.flyertalk.com/wiki/index.php/Credit/Debit/ATM_Cards_and_Foreign_Exchange

If you want a credit card to use for different currencies then get one that doesn't charge a conversion fee or cash advance fee at all. There are a few cards around which give you the bank rate with no markup.

Amex is not one of them.

Have a look at http://www.flyertalk.com/wiki/index.php/Credit/Debit/ATM_Cards_and_Foreign_Exchange
Unfortunately, we are all AAdvantage junkies, so if the card doesn't provide AA or SPG miles (or something that can be converted into AA miles) then no one will use it.

Unfortunately, we are all AAdvantage junkies, so if the card doesn't provide AA or SPG miles (or something that can be converted into AA miles) then no one will use it.

In the UK, Amex charges 2.73% comission on non Sterling transactions. In addition to this, there is a £3 or 3% charge on cash advances on your Amex.

Get the right card and you don't pay any of these charges - that's the equivalent of a fair wad of cashback on your foreign transactions - I haven't yet seen a card reward scheme which can compete with cold hard cash in my hand.

Of course, if you are charging up large amounts and claiming it back from your company on expenses then you are better off with a card which adds a large commission and "rewards" you in other ways.

You don't get something for nothing though....