American Express Membership Rewards - Ryanair Holdings No longer Accepts American Express Cards

Ryanair Holdings No longer Accepts American Express Cards

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030619/1155000865_2.html

I checked their web site and they also charge customers extra fee when they pay with the credit or debit card.

AmEx have a current promotion: earn 500 bonus MR points for each web transaction from a number of retailers:
http://home3.americanexpress.com/uk/doubleclick/index.html

Curiously, when the promotion first appeared, LiarAir were among those retailers, but the LiarAir link was soon pulled!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GeorgeF:
I checked their web site and they also charge customers extra fee when they pay with the credit or debit card.</font>

Pretty much all travel Agents in the UK charge extra for using a credit card, usually 1 - 2 % for visa and suchlike and 2-4% for Amex

Nigel

Nigel, the joke is that those agents and real airlines allow payment by debit card (Visa Delta, Switch) without surcharge.

LiarAir charge you extra for paying with a debit card!

So how do you book with LiarAir without paying a surcharge? By telephone? Forget it!

Ah, wait a minute. Here's the answer - you can pay without surcharge if you have a ... Visa Electron card! Well, I haven't got one; nobody in the family has got one, and I'd bet that only a very small minority of FT'ers has one.

It would be honest if they included the cost in their ticket price. But then it would be honest if they really did fly to Frankfurt, Brussels, Paris, Milan and other places they claim to serve.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Roger:
Ah, wait a minute. Here's the answer - you can pay without surcharge if you have a ... Visa Electron card! Well, I haven't got one; nobody in the family has got one, and I'd bet that only a very small minority of FT'ers has one.</font>

I seem to remember that an Electron card is like a Delta card, but is valid for online authorisations only; it doesn't even have stamped numbers/name so you can't take an imprint from it, etc.

I think this is the sort of card you get if your bank determines you're a sufficient credit risk that they don't even want you to have a cheque guarantee card or a facility for transactions that are not cleared directly from your account.

Perhaps this is RyanAir catering to their demographic http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by beergut:
Pretty much all travel Agents in the UK charge extra for using a credit card, usually 1 - 2 % for visa and suchlike and 2-4% for Amex

Nigel

</font>

So, why did they dumped AmEx? In the article it mentions higher fees but why do they care if the pass those fees to customers?

I would imagine it has to do something with the fact that most merchant account agreements (at least in the US) do NOT allow a merchant to charge a customer extra to use their CC. Perhaps VISA/MC europe doesn't care, but AmEx in the end did?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Axey:
I would imagine it has to do something with the fact that most merchant account agreements (at least in the US) do NOT allow a merchant to charge a customer extra to use their CC. Perhaps VISA/MC europe doesn't care, but AmEx in the end did?</font>

Amex UK used to have a link on their website to a document you could use to report if an Amex was refused or surcharged. Haven't been able to find it again but Amex certainly knows it goes on especially with TA's, they probably make so much in commission from " big ticket " purchases like a family holiday that they turn a blind eye.

Nigel

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by beergut:
Amex UK used to have a link on their website to a document you could use to report if an Amex was refused or surcharged.
</font>

Is this the one?

https://home3.americanexpress.com/uk/merchant/secure/leads_general/ges_suppression_uk.asp

What makes AMEX and V-M/C the biggest hypocrites in the world is the US Government is in effect allowing surcharges to be charged when a US citizen pays their tax payment by one of these credit cards, and AMEX and V-M/C stand mutely and allow this policy year after year. hmmm. What does that tell we consumers ?

Yes, I know the circumventing term "convenience fee" is the nifty buzzword that these payment acceptance places use. What convenience ? I am choosing to present payment in the form of credit card instead of check. Faster clearing to the government than my check actually. They should be DIScounting 3% back to me for the quick settlement I provide them.

Therefore, all a merchant has to do is call the surcharge a "convenience fee" and point to the US government as the precedence.

Or, post a prominent notice "all prices reflect 3% cash discount" and no problems. That's also been prooven to side-step the surcharge issue and stay with credit card companies' good graces. Just avoid using the term "surcharge".

simple enough.

Amex has no leg to stand on. Ryanair apparently didn't know the sham game AMEX and V-M/C play to let merchant openly charge surcharges, yet make them appear to be taking seriously the issue of surcharges.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NickW:
I seem to remember that an Electron card ... is the sort of card you get if your bank determines you're a sufficient credit risk that they don't even want you to have a cheque guarantee card or a facility for transactions that are not cleared directly from your account.

Perhaps this is RyanAir catering to their demographic http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif</font>

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I'd like to think LiarAir were this smart, but I'm sure they just want to milk the maximum revenue from their customers and blame everybody else for the cost of the extras.

Funny thing is we used LiarAir last week. Given their poor reputation for timekeeping and customer 'service', I paid by AmEx to make sure we had insurance coverage. This cost £4 on top of the £0.01 and taxes. Oddly, the flight arrived on time in both directions, and apart from the inept bag handlers at STN, we had no problem.

I think I'm right in saying that easyJet charge £3 for Visa/MC and £5 for AX, so differential pricing is possible. Of course, as a real airline, EZ make no charge for debit card use.

I always thought that charging a fee to customers to use their credit/debit cards was illegal.

I think a fee is permitted, just as long as you charge 'em all equally. Does anyone know for sure? Thanks!

-Mark

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by meFIRST:
I always thought that charging a fee to customers to use their credit/debit cards was illegal.

</font>

On this side of Atlantic it is illegal. Also, there was a story couple of months aho about a new law in Australia permitting merchants to charge a fee under certain circumstances.

First of all, in the US, at least, its not CRIMINALLY illegal to charge a surcharge....it is simply AGAINST AMEX policy to do so, and if caught, can be grounds for AMEX to de-authorize a vendor from accepting their card.

Let me repeat myself - Not ILLEGAL, just VIOLATES AMEX POLICY. Your local DA and/or state Attorney General could care less in all 50states.

How to dance around ths issue ? AMEX, M/C, Visa, and Discover ALL have explicit prohibitions against SURCHARGES, so the "wink and nod" policy which allows a merchant to charge a surcharge, and in fact I believe AMEX even specifically says this in print, is that a merchant must state clearly "ALL PRICES DISCOUNTED FOR CASH" or words to that effect...which means...whadoyaknow...a surcharge is allowed after all. As long as a merchant plays this little game, AMEX, and all card-issuers will stand pat.

Now, the latest wrinkle that really is a slap in the face of consumers, and really undermines AMEX's and all major card issuers' policy...is these IRS-sanctioned "nationwide tax payment services" which are explicitly approved by the IRS to allow we taxpayers to pay our bills using major credit cards. Without question, all card uissuing companies are very much aware of this "convenience fee" these payment companies are charging. I submit a "convenience fee" is exactly a surcharge. It walks and smells like duck, and it is a duck.

Of course, we all remember, not that long ago, that Exxon (or was it Mobil) "discounted for cash", or added a surcharge for credit card usage, however you want to put it. Another example of all the major credit card issuing companies' "wink and nod" enforcement of "no surcharge policy".

So - there is ample precedent, both recent and current, that confirms for us all (I am both a merchant who accepts cards, and an active card user myself) that AMEX, M/C, Visa, and Discover will easily look the other way on this surcharge issue, unless the merchant is *dumb* enough to call it a "SURCHARGE", per se. Side-step that specific term...any number of strategies, and a merchant is allowed, to this day, to add 2-3-4% or whatever he can get away with.

No criminality whatsoever...just a policy enforcement matter. Bottom line is AMEX does ZERO to stop surcharges as long as merchant users politically-correct termonology.

[This message has been edited by ILUVCITIBANK (edited 06-27-2003).]

Actually something similar to this happened in Australia with taxi's and Visa. When you hire a taxi and pay with a credit card, you are charged a 10% surcharge. Visa took the merchant facilities off the company processing these charges for this contravention and so every taxi in Sydney had a sign on it We take Mastercard, Amex and Diners but not VISA - ask us why. Mastercard also ran a promotional campaign about how you can use Mastercard everywhere... even in taxi's.

Anyway both would not let up until the govt. made it illegal to stop the charging of a surcharge for using a credit card and now merchants can charge whatever surcharge they want. Visa and Mastercard have promised major problems and cried about dying and leaving the Australian market - but none of that has happened so far.