American Express Membership Rewards - Attempted understatement...

Extracted from Topic: AMEX Black

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by colonius:
BTW: has anybody been able to get a duplicate card (same number) in Green from the Centurion service? In some situations, I would prefer to have a "cloaked" Centurion card.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Howie:

Not the same number - but I carry just a normal green card for some situations / locations where I don't want to show my wealth http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif. It has been discussed a lot of times now wether you have to be rich or not to get a black card. Fact is that some people will consider you as wealthy when you show your black card, and sometimes I just feel better to avoid this impression.</font>

I'd like to start a new thread for this topic, because this is a question I have been dealing with recently, too...

I have a (German) Platinum Card, and sometimes people here in Germany seem to think I use the card to show off. Also there are situations I'd like to avoid showing I am willing and able to pay some hundred Euros per year for a credit card. At least some of the benefits of the card are useful to me, especially the rental car insurance, so basically I'd like to stay with Platinum. But I could also use a plain green Personal Card for the situations I don't want to look like Mr. Big Spender...

Actually I wouldn't care if it is a duplicate card with the same number or an additional card with my name on it, but I don't see why I should pay the fee for a completely new account - additional cards for friends & family would be free. So far, AmEx customer service has denied me this favour nevertheless. Has anybody of you had more success?

Simple advice: Don't concern yourself with what other people think. Keep your plat card and move on with your life. Remember: No one can make you feel inferior without your permission. - Eleanor Roosevelt.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Just get a green "companion creditcard" free of fee!!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by axel1:
Just get a green "companion creditcard" free of fee!!</font>

Hm... I have phoned AmEx customer service, trying to accomplish exactly this. Talked to two different service people and got contrary statements. At least my application was forwarded to the people who actually make decisions there, so I now wait for a letter from AmEx. Preferrably containing a card. Do you actually have a companion credit card issued on your name?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by skofarrell:
Simple advice: Don't concern yourself with what other people think. Keep your plat card and move on with your life. Remember: No one can make you feel inferior without your permission. - Eleanor Roosevelt. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif</font>

Ahmen... I could not have said it better myself. Your time is too precious to waste on deciding what card to pull out.

skofarrell and DelrayChris: Good point! Usually I am indeed not concerned about what other people think about my credit card. But in Germany Platinum cards are still relatively seldom - AmEx still issues them 'on invitation only' - and if I recall correctly VISA and MC don't offer anything above Gold here. So there are just situations I prefer people not to assume me being wealthier than average.

I salute your modesty, but have to agree with skofarrel and DelrayChris. I think you are way over thinking this whole thing. No one gives a **** about what color or kind of card you use. Certainly a platinum, green, or polka dot colored Amex Card will not telegraph any indication of your wealth or lack of it upon it.

PUHLEEZ...you all are TOO funny!

Monsieur Stephan asks about being less conspicuous, and many of your reply that he shouldn't be concerned.

What are you smoking? I want some!

Surely there are places and times when most people want to not stick out or create undesirable impressions--and there's nothing inferior about that!

And for those of you who think rethinking the perceptions that one creates by one's possessions are NEVER warranted, well, I'm very sorry. Have you ever thought that perhaps you may make the OTHER person a bit insecure or uncomfortable, perhaps too "conscious of his poverty" or simply lack of affluence?

I refer you to The True Genteman, by John Walter Wayland: "The true gentleman is the man whose conduct proceeds from good will and an acute sense of propriety, and whose self-control is equal to all emergencies; who does not make the poor man conscious of his poverty, the obscure man of his obscurity, or any man of his inferiority or deformity; who is himself humbled if necessity compels him to humble another; who does not flatter wealth, cringe before power, or boast of his own possessions or achievements; who speaks with frankness but always with sincerity and sympathy; whose deed follows his word; who thinks of the rights and feelings of others, rather than his own; and who appears well in any company, a man with whom honor is sacred and virtue safe."

Let's get real now, gents, shall we?

-First in Class

Here in the US, I know for a fact it is 100% possible. A friend of mine has The Centurion Card(SM) exclusively for the benefits, and insisted on his "Centurion" being issued on "Green" plastic.

He contacted CMS* & created a secondary card in his name. He then contacted "Card Replacement Dept", and requested that this new secondary card be issued on green plastic. Spoke to a supervisor who granted his request. According to the supervisor the request was processed manually and would take 7-10 business days.

He now has Black & Green plastics, with two different acct #'s but issued on the same Centurion account. So essentially his green is actually the Centurion card.

*Centurion Member Services

[This message has been edited by MaisonUnitas (edited 12-10-2002).]

First in Class, you have lived up to your handle

eMailman,

I am glad to know I am not alone in these sentiments. Thanks for your kind words.

First in Class

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Stefan0521:
But in Germany Platinum cards are still relatively seldom ... and if I recall correctly VISA and MC don't offer anything above Gold here.</font>

That´s because Germans usually have a much more different attidue towards credit cards:
It´s just a payment tool!

By the way, the MC World Signia Card is available in Germany too.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by First in Class:
PUHLEEZ...you all are TOO funny!

Monsieur Stephan asks about being less conspicuous, and many of your reply that he shouldn't be concerned.

What are you smoking? I want some!

Surely there are places and times when most people want to not stick out or create undesirable impressions--and there's nothing inferior about that!

And for those of you who think rethinking the perceptions that one creates by one's possessions are NEVER warranted, well, I'm very sorry. Have you ever thought that perhaps you may make the OTHER person a bit insecure or uncomfortable, perhaps too "conscious of his poverty" or simply lack of affluence?

I refer you to The True Genteman, by John Walter Wayland: "The true gentleman is the man whose conduct proceeds from good will and an acute sense of propriety, and whose self-control is equal to all emergencies; who does not make the poor man conscious of his poverty, the obscure man of his obscurity, or any man of his inferiority or deformity; who is himself humbled if necessity compels him to humble another; who does not flatter wealth, cringe before power, or boast of his own possessions or achievements; who speaks with frankness but always with sincerity and sympathy; whose deed follows his word; who thinks of the rights and feelings of others, rather than his own; and who appears well in any company, a man with whom honor is sacred and virtue safe."

Let's get real now, gents, shall we?

-First in Class</font>

I have to agree with First in Class.

I think that you have to have lived in Germany and understand 'the German way' to grasp where Stephan is coming from. Ive lived in Central Europe and worked with Germans for a long time, and can tell you for a fact that even having a platinum card and using it in the 'wrong' places in front of the 'innapropriate' people can cause you quite a few headaches.

Its one thing to not be concerned about other peoples gossip, but it another thing entirely to not realize the different sensitivities of people of different cultural backgrounds. Ever tried to leave food on a plate at some European households...?

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Gaucho100K

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gaucho100K:
Ever tried to leave food on a plate at some European households...?

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Had a lot of Polish friends living in the UK a few years ago, I never left their homes feeling hungry or sober !!!


Nigel

I used to have AmEx Plat but downgraded to green. We moved to Hungary in 2001, me working here as an expatriate. I have never in 9 years history with AmEx encountered any unsual reaction when paying with green, gold or platinum. Not in Germany, Austria, Hungary, Poland or wherever I've been in Europe or Near East. Cards are, especially in Germany, simply a convenient way of payment, although I'v never heard that like in the US you could pay your taxes through you AmEx account but - who knows? Perhaps the average amounts of payments with eg. my Plat were considerably low (?) or I missed "strange" places when doing shopping, nobody ever noticed when, I handed over my card, what colour it was or simply didn't care. I think I do remember that in Germany one could have his personal card, an additional personal Plat, a spouses Plat and golds and greend for family members or appointed persons. Maybe AmEx is able to issue an additional personal card which is indeed green.
I actually downgraded because nothing that the Plat card offered was of any use to me in Hungary - not even the payment function - barely any shop accepts AmEx where we live - which is not Budapest.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gaucho100K:
I think that you have to have lived in Germany and understand 'the German way'[...] worked with Germans for a long time, and can tell you for a fact that even having a platinum card and using it in the 'wrong' places in front of the 'innapropriate' people can cause you quite a few headaches. </font>

Being fired by Deutsche Bank makes you a Germanist? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by beergut:
... I never left their homes feeling hungry or sober !!!</font>

Hence your username! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I can understand the problem here. I do significant amounts of work in local and central government. As a consultant, I am paid vastly more than the civil servants to whom I consult -- I'm not bragging, it's just the simple facts. I don't like to pull out a platinum card when I'm entertaining them socially, because it is uncomfortable and it only serves to heighten the us/them divide. In the same way that I choose to adopt the dress code that my clients do, in order to create a sense of cohesion in the team, I try to live the way they do. So when I'm entertaining a merchant banker -- we live it up at the best restaurants and clubs in town. When I'm entertaining a civil servant, it's more likely to be down at the pub.

I simply carry two cards - Platinum for personal, Amex Corporate Green for business. Problem solved.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bus dude:
Being fired by Deutsche Bank makes you a Germanist? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif </font>

*beep* *beep* *beep* *beepbeepbeepbeepbeeeeeeeeee* Yes, that would be the duplicate account detector going off. Care to stop hiding like a coward and say that under your 'real' name?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bus dude:
Being fired by Deutsche Bank makes you a Germanist? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif </font>

Huh...? What's a Germanist...? I just understand my friends the Krauts, thats all. BTW, welcome to Flyertalk... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kanebear:
*beep* *beep* *beep* *beepbeepbeepbeepbeeeeeeeeee* Yes, that would be the duplicate account detector going off. Care to stop hiding like a coward and say that under your 'real' name?</font>

Kanebear-- http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif Do you like I smell a bunny-wabbit or am I on the wrong track...? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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Gaucho100K

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Stefan0521:
At least some of the benefits of the card are useful to me, especially the rental car insurance, </font>

You could save some money with the LH Visa card which also includes the car insurances. Just an advise http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Stefan0521:
But in Germany Platinum cards are still relatively seldom - AmEx still issues them 'on invitation only' - </font>

Today you can just apply for one but this is unofficial...

Tim

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by First in Class:
PUHLEEZ...you all are TOO funny!

Monsieur Stephan asks about being less conspicuous, and many of your reply that he shouldn't be concerned.</font>

That is exactly my point. I want to be less suspicious in some situations without loosing the benefits (insurances etc) that the Centurion Card offers.

Have you ever prepaid for Gas at a seedy truck stop somewhere in Nowhereville, USA?
More places and situations come to mind,
but I think this example should serve...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">

What are you smoking? I want some!

</font>

;-)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Surely there are places and times when most people want to not stick out or create undesirable impressions--and there's nothing inferior about that!

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Right. And Amex Platinum is sometimes even more conspicious, because more people now
what a Platinum card is....

Thanks to all you supporting my point. I don't fear bad reactions so much, I just consider showing or creating the impression of wealth too aggressively bad style... So I'm thinking about the LH Visa now, thanks for the hint. I like MR, though...

This entire thread is based on everyone's "assumptions" that the person accepting your form of payment actually gives a rats a** about what card you are using.

Do you think "Joe Hick" in "Backwoods, PA" is paying attention to your card?

Most of the time people slide my card and give it back to me, all the while not even looking at the bloody thing.

Sometimes you "look" more conspicuous trying to be too inconspicuous.

Who cares what everyone thinks about your stupid Centurion-Gold-Diamond-Star-Studded Mega-phat-poly-carbonated card?

Seems like a waste of your $2,500 by going to such extremes as not to "draw" attention to yourself when nobody is paying any attention to your form of payment anyways.

Makes me sick... I know people who would like to pay cash and drive a new S600 because they love the vehicle, but do not. They do not want to drive the car THEY want and that would be paid with THEIR money because of what OTHER people "might think".

I wish people would get over themselves sometimes...

[This message has been edited by DelrayChris (edited 12-16-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by First in Class:
Surely there are places and times when most people want to not stick out or create undesirable impressions</font>

More to my point: Assuming people are actually paying attention to you and actually give a crap. There is nothing wrong with paying for something with a credit card/charge card. It is not as if you are jumping up and down and saying "Look what I have and what you do not have".

People make this Centurion card out to be something that is only attained by kazillionares and is known by everyone in the world and who also bows down in a jealous rage with they see someone paying for something with it...

Geesh...

[This message has been edited by DelrayChris (edited 12-16-2002).]

I have to disagree. I don't know if you have been to Germany before, or if you know anything about the German way of life, but my experience is that people DO pay attention to your credit card here. I've read somewhere that the average American has 8 or more credit cards - the average German has 1 or 2 of them, if any at all. In the US, there are a gazillion banks, each one issuing credit cards in all shades of the rainbow, while here, paying with 'plastic money' is still something relatively unusual in wide areas. Of course a car rental agent at one of the bigger airports sees 50 cards per day and will not give a ****. But in smaller shops you may be one of 50 credit card payers per year and you WILL get attention.

DelrayChris,

First you make the point that the card doesn't matter, and then you make the point that people shouldn't care of the impression created. Thanks for sharing, but what is your point?

Clearly, Stefan and others DO feel that using a particular card CAN create an impression, and sometime that impression IS undesirable. The question is what to do about it.

Consider the chance that your brilliant self doesn't know the sentiments of every other person.

Please, in the future let's have a little more substance and a little less attitude.

First in Class

A fine example of the attitude in Germany that Stefan is describing, is cars and the respective badges designating which model it is. The majority of bigger,expensive cars have the badge removed. I.e. if you drive an S600 you do not advertise this by having it written on the back, instead preferring to have people assume it may be a more "normal S320 or 430...by the way, this is one of the very few extras in the BMW,Mercedes..etc..catalogs in Germany that do not cost extra. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JohnG:
A fine example of the attitude in Germany that Stefan is describing, is cars and the respective badges designating which model it is. The majority of bigger,expensive cars have the badge removed. I.e. if you drive an S600 you do not advertise this by having it written on the back, instead preferring to have people assume it may be a more "normal S320 or 430...by the way, this is one of the very few extras in the BMW,Mercedes..etc..catalogs in Germany that do not cost extra. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif</font>

Great example. The opposite happens in other countries where people pay extra to remove the factory issued crome S600 label and replace it with a golden one...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gaucho100K:
Great example. The opposite happens in other countries where people pay extra to remove the factory issued crome S600 label and replace it with a golden one...</font>


Could not agree more. Especially in Singapore where cars are overpriced to begin with. Though I find travelling/entertaining in Asia with a platinum card tends to bring better service, sometimes discounts.

It all depends where you are. Though I'll bear this in mind when I'm in Germany.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by First in Class:
Clearly, Stefan and others DO feel that using a particular card CAN create an impression, and sometime that impression IS undesirable.</font>

This is a sad situation to be in whereby you have to be in constant worry that you are going to leave a "bad impression" when you are simply living your life and treating other people with respect.

My point is this: People will always judge you wherever you are and for practically anything you own.

If it is not your "method of payment" it will be your vehicle, your home address, or your clothing.

As long as you are respectful of others you should live your life and not live it to please other people's impressions/opinions of you as they are going to judge you anyways.

[This message has been edited by DelrayChris (edited 12-17-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DelrayChris:
This is a sad situation to be in whereby you have to be in constant worry that you are going to leave a "bad impression" when you are simply living your life and treating other people with respect.

My point is this: People will always judge you wherever you are and for practically anything you own.

If it is not your "method of payment" it will be your vehicle, your home address, or your clothing.

As long as you are respectful of others you should live your life and not live it to please other people's impressions/opinions of you as they are going to judge you anyways.

[This message has been edited by DelrayChris (edited 12-17-2002).]</font>

DelrayChris,

All of your statements about how life should be are understood, and mostly shared. There is no disagreement on the "you should" statements.

The reality, however, is that the people we need to interact in society for our OWN good make judgments--just as you and I do of others--and those judgments are partly based on impressions. If one needs the support of those people for work or otherwise, then one must be care of the impression created.

It is nice to say we shouldn't care what others think, but there are very pragmatic reasons to care. For example, if I'm conducting business with someone who is paying me, I don't want that person to think that his overpaying me was how I got a fancy car, watch, etc. A shiny Plat or Cent card is a small part--but still part--of such an impression.

Now I know that you just felt like sounding off on the topic of people caring too much about other's opinion of them (and I can appreciate that), but do you really disagree with the specifics of this conversation--which is about the opinions created, esp. (1) in the workplace with peers, customers, etc. and (2) in dangerous areas where the appearance of wealth can make you a target?

First in Class

DelrayChris,

Many people resort to material goods and even a piece of plastic to complement their lack of self-esteem. They need to keep up with the neighbour to fit in. It's a sad reality created by adverstisers and society in genaral.

J.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by First in Class:
(1) in the workplace with peers, customers, etc. and (2) in dangerous areas where the appearance of wealth can make you a target?</font>

I hear you, I do. I was simply referring to the above situation as in Germany whereby using a certain card to do nothing more than purchase goods from a store will get you "judged".

As far as (1), of course. If you are, let us say, a construction company owner, you do not show up to a job site in your Ferrari. This would be shoving your wealth in someone's face (aka, dis-respecting then) as a Ferarri has no place at a job site.

I think we are playing the same song, but are not exactly on the same page of music, but are getting there.

Thank you for your opinions.

I was reading a magazine a few days ago containing an interview with the PGA Pro Stuart Appelby. As an Australian playing on the US tour he was asked how the culture compares in the US to his native country.

He said: If a golf pro showed up to a lesson with his customer in a brand new Porsche,BMW,..etc..the Australian would think " Wow, this guy must be overcharging me !I'm going elsewhere". The American would think: " Man, he must be the best pro around and a fantastic teacher if he is able to afford a car like that ! I'glad I'm taking my lessons from him !"

Not exactly related to the German aspect, and certainly a generalisation, but quite amusing I thought.. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tim2008:
You could save some money with the LH Visa card which also includes the car insurances. Just an advise http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
</font>

Any idea on what issuer has a LH card in .au?

NO LH Visa in AU!
Yes, the interview in the Golf Digest or a similar magazine is a good example for the divergent appreciation of wealth.
The golden S600 label is ridiculous. I wouldn't want to drive a car labeled like that. Our cars (in Germany) have no label, it is in fact priceless to remove the model-sign.

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Take care, especially while being abroad.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JohnG:
He said: If a golf pro showed up to a lesson with his customer in a brand new Porsche,BMW,..etc..the Australian would think " Wow, this guy must be overcharging me !I'm going elsewhere". The American would think: " Man, he must be the best pro around and a fantastic teacher if he is able to afford a car like that ! I'glad I'm taking my lessons from him !"</font>

An interesting note to the differences in culture, perception and ignorance (i.e., not knowing).

Quite ignorant on the customer's part as the customer only sees the 'brand' and does not know the circumstances by which the vehicle was obtained, or how much it costs. For all they know, the golf pro bought the vehicle used, and for only $20,000.

"Perception: what the eyes see, and the ears hear, the mind believes..."

[This message has been edited by DelrayChris (edited 12-19-2002).]

A few years ago when I had a Rolex, I would, on occasion, notice a doorman's or a waiter's eyes following the movement of my wrist. TOO funny. Now, as a waiter, I judge MY guests. When a gentleman or a lady hands me a Centurion Black...well, I KNOW what he/she has accomplished to get that card. Now, PLEASE! I am NOT saying that they are a better human being, or even smarter than me. I'm an excellent server, one of the best in my establishment and consider it my craft. A craft that most people cannot do well. It's what I do well. However, the ownership of certain things speaks about the owner of those things. It doesn't speak volumes.

[BTW, keeping things in perspective, I pawned that Rolex, 3 1/2 years ago to help pay my rent. Got 500 lousy dollars for it. Ha. Now I wear a $65 Fossil and get compliments all the time. Ashes to ashes , you know!]

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"Waiter? May I have another latté, please?"

I think, there is an important point to have in mind. Different cultures have different perceptions of what is "correct" and what is a "faux pas".
In some cultures it's correct to show his wealth, in other cultures not.

All these differences make the world so interesting. That's why we all here enjoy to travel around the world....

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Stefan0521:
Hm... I have phoned AmEx customer service, trying to accomplish exactly this. Talked to two different service people and got contrary statements. At least my application was forwarded to the people who actually make decisions there, so I now wait for a letter from AmEx. Preferrably containing a card. Do you actually have a companion credit card issued on your name?</font>
Just to confirm that I have achieved this. I have a Green card issued in my name on the back of my Plat card. Amex think I am a different person, ie that the person who owns the green card is different from the one who owns the platinum but the affect is one I wanted. I use the Green Card all the time as it has more cachet in the UK than the Plat card. Plats are a dime a dozen but few people use a Green Card other than the Corporate Card

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ahrz:
I think, there is an important point to have in mind. Different cultures have different perceptions of what is "correct" and what is a "faux pas".
In some cultures it's correct to show his wealth, in other cultures not.

All these differences make the world so interesting. That's why we all here enjoy to travel around the world....

</font>

Very well said. I agree completely.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ahrz:

In some cultures it's correct to show his wealth, in other cultures not.</font>

AHRZ,

True, but the desire for human appreciation, respect, and a sense of belonging is universal.

In some cultures the appearance of wealth is more effectively converted into respect for that person embodying wealth, than in other cultures where such lines are not drawn so simply based on the assumption money=power=respect.