American Express Membership Rewards - Think the UK Platinum Card is a rip-off?

...then you should check out the latest effort by NatWest to get into the premium card market.

NatWest Black www.natwestblack.com (http://www.natwestblack.com) cost £250 per annum and offers considerably less. What a great deal, I'm sure it'll be a big hit.

[This message has been edited by LondonElite (edited 08-12-2002).]

I agree.

Amex was always market leader in the premium segment.

Every time Amex introduced a new premium product, the mainstream issuers Visa and Mastercard tried to create some concurrent products. Without any success so far.

Visa and MC only offer basic services to their members (the issuing banks), and each issuing bank is free to provide additional services . But you can't expect any kind of worldwide service with these cards (except emergency card replacement).

Amex is and remains the market leader, even if some people here explain in dozens of posts that nobody else should use a Plat or Centurion card because they cancelled their own card....

'even if some people here explain in dozens of posts that nobody else should use a Plat or Centurion card because they cancelled their own card....'

Now who could this possibly be?

Platinum & Centurion are not for everyone, if you're looking at the annual fee and balking, its not for you. If you don't like the products, then fair enough but don't continually whine about them.

NatwestBlack is only available to existing NatWest customers at the moment, and interestingly you have to be over 25, so even 'this boy from Swindon' can't get one. I did enquire about the card, but there is little there aside from Concierge, Priority Pass and RAC cover which are of no use for me.

BarclayCard, which are still the largest card issuer in the Uk are launching a Black BarclayCard later this year, and are not releasing any details on it at the moment. My guess is that it is to replace the Barclays Premier charge card (http://www.barclayspremier.com), that is typical held by Barclays Premier/Private Clients.

Most of the big banks are going to be watching closely on these two products, and then look at their offerings with there premium products. I have a Clydesdale Principal account which has just begun to offer concierge, and possibly more to come. And the Switch/Cheque G'tee card comes in Black http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif.

Thanks,
Richard

Richard

My point was not to whinge about the UK Platinum Card (I happen to think it's worth it, although they had better not keep paring down the benefits) so much as it was to point out that NatWest could not possibly have done their homework properly.

This card is more expensive than Platinum, appears to offer less in services/benefits and, I agree with the previous post, will struggle to be your saviour around the globe.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LondonElite:
...then you should check out the latest effort by NatWest to get into the premium card market.

NatWest Black www.natwestblack.com (http://www.natwestblack.com) cost £250 per annum and offers considerably less. What a great deal, I'm sure it'll be a big hit.

[This message has been edited by LondonElite (edited 08-12-2002).]</font>

Why are they bothering?

Natwest already hold the most exclusive CC in the UK (IIRC) - The Coutts Gold Card.

And no - it isn't black (OK the tiny Coutts logos are http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif )! Neither is the debit card.

Regards,
Alex

AmEx Platinum Card in the UK is now £275 per year.

It was £225 when i had it, then it went up to £245 last year, and now its £275. But then it was £375 before Centurion was launched in March 99.

Not sure waht the service will be like on the NatwestBlack card, I wonder if its adminstered by a separate team like Centurion or if its shared like Platinum.

Thanks,
Richard

Talking of international service, linked with Amex style concierge services. I have an HSBC Premier account, that provides similar services to AMEX. I have found the service on par if not better for concierge and travel related issues.

It is an interesting concept, both Amex and HSBC are international companies, both are able to offer "Premium" services. Both charge a annual fee, buit on provides a total banking package.

anyone else has experience with HSBC's Premier global services ??

Rip off?? Depends if you use the "exclusive services".

The U.S. Platinum card fee was recently rasised to $395/$175 (primary/secondary). $570 per, for what? Nothing, in my opinion.

It's not about the money, but rather the principle.

Cancelled mine, and went back to the Gold Card, with Membership Rewards.

If they ever change their services, and make them more desireable, then I will consider going back.

Seems our Centurion card holders are also experiencing a degrading services!!

Does that mean that my First Direct black switch card is exclusive?! Since my mortgage payments to them are £800 a month, that might make it the highest annual fee.

The swiss bank "Finansbank" now offers all Amex international Dollar Cards to their clients: www.finansbank.ch (http://www.finansbank.ch)

You can even download an application form for Centurion, directly from their website.

The Amex application form doesn´t even ask about an annual income or other financial resources - only two signatures from the bank necessary, just to proove the identity of the applying person.

When applying for a card, whatever color it is, Amex reserves the right to check the income stated on the form by contacting the bank, employer, accountant, etc.

The applicant explicitely allows these checks by signing the application form.

The finansbank, like all other partner banks 'offering' the International Dollar Card to their clients, is responsible for the income and/or wealth check before pre-approving the application.

By forwarding the pre-approved form (signed by the bank) to Amex, the bank assures Amex that the applicant meets the criteria .

No chance to get a Centurion thru a partner bank if you don't meet the Amex defined criteria, unless you have very good friends at top positions in the bank ...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ahrz:
When applying for a card, whatever color it is, Amex reserves the right to check the income stated on the form by contacting the bank, employer, accountant, etc.

The applicant explicitely allows these checks by signing the application form.

The finansbank, like all other partner banks 'offering' the International Dollar Card to their clients, is responsible for the income and/or wealth check before pre-approving the application. </font>

In reality it´s nothing but a marketing agreement between Amex and the bank:

"You have good clients, so just offer them our cards, because we want more cardmembers and will take anyone who´s willing to pay for it regarless of income or spending habits.
On the other side you (the bank) will have more chances to aquire new clients because you can give them a product, that is advertised as a hard to get item in the rest of the world."

In this case Amex would never spend time on asking about the income of private bank customers or how much they would spend on the card or how they became the banks clients. All they want is to sell more cards.

It´s just that simple!

The exclusivity-hype only works in markets with high lot of status-anxious locations (like London, New York, Hong Kong, ...)and where it´s well supported by the medias but obviously not in places like Switzerland or Germany, where people or the medias are not so interested in that product.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by axel1:
In reality it´s nothing but a marketing agreement between Amex and the bank:
.</font>

It's (fortunately) not correct.

It's a contract between the partner bank and Amex. The bank must settle the monthly statement also, and the pre-approved standard amount is higher for Centurion than for other Amex cards.

The bank has to ensure that the customer's deposits are high enough to cover the shadow limit. The shadow limit will be increased later by analysing the actual expenses, if it's a new customer.

In all cases, expenses "higher than usual" may result in a call to the bank before approval.

-----------------------------

Note that in the last years, Amex launched many cards (with the classic design) together with partner banks (Santander Bank in Spain, for example). These cards are not co-branded cards in the common sense like HHonors or SPG cards. The partner bank is responsible for acquiring and servicing the cardmembers, but must enforce the criteria set by Amex.

The International Dollar Card is marketed directly by Amex Europe (UK) or by partner banks.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by axel1:
The exclusivity-hype only works in markets with high lot of status-anxious locations (like London, New York, Hong Kong, ...)and where it´s well supported by the medias but obviously not in places like Switzerland or Germany, where people or the medias are not so interested in that product.</font>

Obviously, all your posts about the Centurion card turn around your problem with 'exclusivity'.

You must consider the credit card market like the car market.
A premium car maker like Daimler offers many products, from the A-series at $20,000 to the new Maybach for $350,000 .

Amex has also a wide range of customers, with very different expense patterns, and offer products from the zero fee credit card to the Centurion charge card.

Daimler launched the Maybach with an expensive show in the US, Amex launched the Centurion using appropriate press releases.

The goal is the same : to reach the potential customers.

You will never see much Maybach on the streets, and never see the Centurion in every wallet. But that's not the point you should focus all your free time on.

People aware of status symbols prefer to buy expensive watches, wear designer clothes or drive exclusive cars. As "status symbol" is a credit card certainly the most discreet one.
Because you don't wear it on your head, and show it just before you leave the shops or restaurants, you should never expect some special treatment.

As Centurion cardholder, I can assure you that nobody knows what kind of card it is, and nobody cares anyway. And I don't care if my neighbour has one or not.

My opinion is, that you could close the discussion about exclusivity without problem and start to discuss about the benefits, where your opinion/experience could be of better interest for other people here.

The swiss bank "Finansbank" now offers all Amex international Dollar Cards to their clients: www.finansbank.ch (http://www.finansbank.ch)

I emailed the bank and response was, if you deposit 100k USD, you can APPLY for the AmEx Centurion card. They focus on Turkish market.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that AmEx Platinum is a rip-off. I already have comprehensive insurance via my bank, could get a Priority Pass card for half the annual fee of AmEx (or less) and on the only occasion I have used the so-called "concierge" service (to attempt to book a venue for a friend's birthday) they got back to me some weeks later (and, in any event, after said friend's birthday).

The only thing that keeps AmEx going is the perceived prestige of holding one of their cards - particularly Platinum or Centurion. The reality is that these products are ridiculously over-hyped. Constant cutting back of service levels, and constand increases in the annual fee.

I have retained my AmEx Plat only to transfer reward points to Virgin Flying Club - with any luck, VS will shortly establish their own credit card (presumably MC or Visa) and I shall defect.

I am a NatWest customer and have applied for NatWest Black. I have always thought age qualifications for cards (particularly age 25) to be absurd and so can fully understand Richard's point made above.

Aside from the price issue, what does NW Black do that Amex Platinum doesn't?

[This message has been edited by LondonElite (edited 08-29-2002).]

It gives far fewer miles! (One Air Mile = approx 10 BA Miles per £15, around one third less than AmEx.)

It is a Visa card, perceived to be less prestigious than AmEx Plat, and costs only 10% less.

No matter what colour the card is.. you still have to be able to pay the bill and the month end. Who really cares what the card looks like. I'd like a pink and fluffy card please.

(said by an ex amex employee - who ditched the platinum card as soon as asked to pay the annual fee upon resigning !)

NWBlack offers some sort of RAC cover, no AmEx card offers that.

The benefits on Platinum far outweigh the NWBlack benefits. Don't forget that Platinum accounts get 5 free supplementary cards, and all of those automatically become cover under the travel insurance too. This benefit alone can be worth more than the annual fee.

Thanks,
Richard

One benefit with AmEx Plat, which I think is unique for a UK-issued card, is the North American rental car coverage - included in the fee, and upgradeable for a surcharge.

In my case, two rentals covered the extra cost of Plat, with my other US rentals 'free' of insurance extras.

I think you have to pay the enhanced coverage surcharge £85 pa to get this. I enquired a few years ago whether car hire insurance was covered on the basic Platinum card and they told me I had to upgrade to get the Centurion level cover.

If I'm wrong, please straighten me out and I'll cancel it!

Nope on Platinum you get the carhire cover but I think its only a top-up CDw cover, where as Centurion get full CDW\SLI. But then AmEx inusrance changes on a daily basis, phone them up and check.

Thanks,
Richard

That's almost right, Richard.

Plat includes top-up liability cover. CDW/LDW cover is an optional extra.

At least, that's what I have for this year. I like your comment about changes. Who knows what changes are ahead for the higher fee next year?

I have the Amex Plat ( at least until renewal time comes!!) and have paid the £85 supplement to cover LDW in the US. With Hertz, this is great and I have no problems.
The quirks start to appear when getting quotes from others - Avis, Dollar and Alamo etc. I tell them that I don't want SLI or CDW/LDW and in the UK they are unable to come up with a quote that doesn't include LDW for a US rental, or if they do, it is somehow more expensive than the LDW inclusive rate. I finish up going direct to the US site for each company.
It is a real minefield that seems to change from week to week and varies each time I get a quote.
The main thing is, whatever cover you have and however you get it, you MUST make sure that you are adequately covered and know who is providing what. It is something that is not worth leaving to chance.

Nick