United MileagePlus (Consolidated) - Unacceptable response to canceled ATL-IAD flight (Aug 10)

SITUATION : My cousin and her daughter were scheduled to travel from ATL-IAD Flight UA 3764 Aug 10 Friday 11:44am.
Flight was canceled because of mechanical problems and they were put on a flight Aug 11 Sat 9:15am UA 6050. No other ATL_IAD flights canceled that morning. Weather was good all around at origin and dest and I can't tell 100% but I think I even checked where the flight was coming from.

COMPLAINT: No accountability by United. No vouchers until after a lot of calling and emailing and then an insulting $50 a person. First united phone rep contacted when notified of the canceled flight said it was mechanical failure . But now weeks later, they are saying it is weather related despite no weather delays, let alone cancelations for similar flights that morning and the initial phone rep clearly telling us that it was not weather related.

DETAILS:
She gets a text message at 7am or earlier saying her flight was canceled and they were rescheduled for a flight nearly 24 hours later. I call United, and the United phone rep mentioned to me that the failure was MECHANICAL and not weather related. And that there were no two seats available on that day to reschedule them on. So either they take connecting flights with inconvenient long connecting time or take a direct flight the next day. My cousins decided to go with the direct flight option for the next morning instead of rushing to the airport with no guarantee of making the one stop flight which would have arrived too late in the day anyway ruining their plans. The phone rep advised that they can get a voucher for compensation the next day at the airport.

The next day at ATL airport, the ticket agent happened to be the United supervisor. She was indifferent to their plight of a delayed flight and when I mentioned the compensation thing, she asked them "what do you expect in terms of a voucher? If you came to the airport yesterday, we may have given you one. " I asked her if she wanted us to come all the way just to claim a voucher. She said "well it may have been weather related and I told her that we were told it was mechanical related and she said "it doesnt matter. You need to send an email if you want. " We were being very polite all the way. Later I was steaming after my relatives went to the security line to take their flight and I approached another United agent and she said she remembered the flight being canceled and she thought we should complain to United online(she did not want to antagonize the supervisor who dealt with us earlier) and thought we had a good case for compensation.

So my cousins followed my advice and sent emails. Many days later, she has to follow up by calling United again,gets the phone runaround for an hour, and then an agent tells her "well, it says it is weather related. There is nothing we can do. As a goodwill gesture, you can have $50 vouchers each even though we do not have to do this. " When she asked them how no other ATL-IAD flights were canceled or delayed that morning, and how could they forecast the weather 4 hours in advance by canceling that flight by text notification to her, the rep had no answer. Weather was good at both origin and destination. And I can't remember 100% but I dont think it was a problem for the origin from where the incoming flight was arriving to ATL. I figure someone here may have access to records. I know in the Airtran forums, someone from Airtran is pretty good at finding out the real cause for Airtran delays.

This is where she is at. I do not buy this B.S. claim by them especially after we were told by the agent on the day of the flight that it was mechanical failure. I have seen airlines cover their ... in the past, but to change the reason? And then not have any regrets over an entire day of delay? Do they think we are stupid?

Are there any United reps on here that can explain to me the conduct of this company? Changing the reason for a delay?

Push for better compensation, but you should have paid more attention day of to see if there were better flights available.

Unfortunately the state of things is such that you need to be proactive when things like this come up. Some things that may have helped in this case:
- Check to see if there are other flight options on different carriers and ask specifically for UA to look into those flights.
- Look for connecting flight options (via IAH, EWR, ORD, etc.)

It's unfortunate that UA doesn't do this stuff for you, but that's the way things are today...

I'm a bit confused, the flight was canceled 4 days in advance? I don't think you get compensation if that's true, I'm not sure though. If it was 4 days in advance, it had nothing to do with weather, and probably nothing to do with mantinance either, just scheduling.


If she received the text on the day of, then yes, push for compensation.

I am confused about where you are getting the 4 day in advnce from ?

SITUATION : Do they think we are stupid?



Yes, what have you read on this board that would give you any indication that it was anything else?

Was the delay on the outbound flight when they were leaving from home? If so them no compensation is due.
They were offered a same day option they decided to wait to the next day for a direct flight. No comp is due, their choice to wait.

If they had to get a hotel due to the canceled flight then UA should cover that and meals.

Sorry, if i wasnt clear. BUt I meant she got texted 4 hours, not 4 days in advance.

They were offered a same day option they decided to wait to the next day for a direct flight. No comp is due, their choice to wait.

OK my original post was already too long. SO I probably did't explain it properly.
The same day option was not offered initially It was a possibility brought up when we were brainstorming with the phone rep in the last minute. The texted message already confirmed for the next morning. The one stop flight would have left approx 2 hours earlier than the original flight and I would have to rush through morning traffic and even then unless EVERYTHING fell in place perfectly with traffic , security, no speeding tickets, and everything else, they would not have made that flight. Also, the possibiity of such a flight came at the tail end of a long call with United squeezing precious minutes of the possibility of making it. If that flight was offered an hour early, they probably take it regardless of when they arrive. Maybe that's why the phone rep never offered it to us as a possibiity early on. The late arrival at IAD was not the main reason why they declined it. It just made it not worthwhile enough to take a risk of beating many traffic laws and seeing if we could beat time to attempt such a flight.
That was not a realistic choice.

They were traveling from SFO to ATL. Stayed at my place in ATL for a few days. Then they were traveling to IAD. And then they left from the northeast a few days later.

I dont see why it is unreasonable to expect something considering we were told by more than one rep(the phone rep on that day and one of the gate agents told my cousin the next day) that it was a United mechanical problem. I even made the phone rep repeat it so I was not hearing things wrong. The mistake I made was not insisting she document that in my cousin's account. And I was advised by another sympathetic ticket agent the next day to have my cousins complain by email to United. They lose a day to that, I expect them to be compensated. I have been compesnated by Continetnal in the distant past when my trip was cut short and I had to be flown back to the origin airport because I didnt want to spend an overnight at IAH the connecting airport. And the reason for that was mechanical failure too. If it is weather, I wouldnt expect anything from the airline.

Since they were staying at my house, we are obviously not claiming hotel for the extra day.

I am confused about where you are getting the 4 day in advnce from ?



I apologize, I mis-read, i thought it said 4 days not 4 hours.


Yes, continue pushing for compensation.

I'm a bit confused, the flight was canceled 4 days in advance?

Huh? Nothing in the OP's mail says 4 days! Are you replying to the correct thread? :confused:

My cousin and her daughter were scheduled to travel from ATL-IAD Flight UA 3764 Aug 10 Friday 11:44am. Flight was canceled because of mechanical problems and they were put on a flight Aug 11 Sat 9:15am UA 6050.

She gets a text message at 7am or earlier saying her flight was canceled and they were rescheduled for a flight nearly 24 hours later.

Huh? Nothing in the OP's mail says 4 days! Are you replying to the correct thread? :confused:



Again, I apologize. I mis-read the post to say 4 days, not 4 hours.

Push for compensation but use this as a learning experience as well. If it is a mechanical problem you can request/demand to be put on another carrier if that works better for you. Just have the information handy for alternatives that work. Being that this was Atlanta; Delta has 6 flights a day to IAD and 15 flights daily to DCA. I'm positive you could have found one that accommodated their situation. So when this happens again in the future -- and it will -- just remember when you call or speak to a GA/CSA of the airline to be armed with info.

People mix-up "compensation" and CS gestures. Here, OP's relatives are due $0 in compensation but got a little something for their troubles.

1. OP's relatives were offered a connecting flight to IAD, but chose to spend another night and fly the next day. Had they been at ATL and been delayed 4+ hours, they would have received a meal coupon for whatever was appropriate. Had UA not been able to get them out until the next AM, UA would have been responsible for dinner and a hotel. All of this due to the MX. But, once UA made an offer which got them to IAD, it is by no means obligated to pay "compensation" for self-imposed delays.

2. If their IAD plans were "in vain" due to the timing, they could have asked to be sent directly back to SFO.

3. If there were better options on FL up to BWI, they could have asked UA for a refund of the value of the ATL-IAD segment and presumably had more than enough to buy the FL segment.

But, not sure what the compensation would be for.

Push for compensation but use this as a learning experience as well. If it is a mechanical problem you can request/demand to be put on another carrier if that works better for you.

IME some PMCO agents will not do this for you. Though shouldn't be an issue on that route.

Do they think we are stupid?

They think GMs are stupid and elites are stupid and over-entitled :D

This was a well written description unlike many we see here. Thanks!

My issue with the new United is the reason for cancellation is not clear a lot of the time. For example, what is "airport conditions prevent departure"? Is it weather, ATC or UA problem?

I had a recent experience where it was not coded in the system - checkin agent said "can't tell, must not be our problem, planes get delayed all the time" and gate agent said "can't tell, we will still take care of you" and had all the vouchers ready for distribution when I got to the gate.

The airport person probably couldn't issue anything since the previous day's flight has already closed and your cousin is not booked on it any more.

I think the "compensation chart" still exists. So, a 1K would get much more in this same situation and feel over-entitled as the result. GMs are not allowed to feel this way - take $50 and feel lucky :D

And they could not have put her on one of the 12 or so DL flights to DCA?

And they could not have put her on one of the 12 or so DL flights to DCA?
All of the legacy carriers use roughly the same order of priority for rebooking in IRROPS: 1) same carrier; 2) same alliance; 3) different carrier. #3 is generally something they will only do in extreme situations and for high-end elites.

UA offered a single-connection reroute. DL wouldn't have done anything different in the reverse situation.

I spoke to at least 10 people yesterday in the aftermath of the computer meltdown. I met people at the gate, in the customer service line, in the shuttle to the hotel, and in the line to check in to the Sheraton Reston.

Some of them were frustrated, with one guy saying he would never fly United again.

But almost to a person, even including the guy who will never fly UA again, they said they were happy with the way United handled the situation and the compensation that they were given.

Compensation including food vouchers, hotel vouchers, taxi vouchers, and of course rebookings for the next available flight. A woman next to me at the CS counter was rerouted on American (and BA?) because the next UA flight (to Manchester, UK) was not until three days later.

I do not think any of the people I met were elites, even silvers. So, it appeared that UA was treating all these GM's pretty fairly.

My cousins do not fly that often. I do(airtran and delta domestically and whatever suits my fancy internationally), but even I wasn't sure what their rights were.
THanks for the different carrier option as an alternative . I thought it was a rule/courtesy thing that was phased out by many airlines. Didn't know it was in play for even mechanical failures.

Good points made by most of you except for this one reply that I do not understand:
1. OP's relatives were offered a connecting flight to IAD, but chose to spend another night and fly the next day. Had they been at ATL and been delayed 4+ hours, they would have received a meal coupon for whatever was appropriate. Had UA not been able to get them out until the next AM, UA would have been responsible for dinner and a hotel. All of this due to the MX. But, once UA made an offer which got them to IAD, it is by no means obligated to pay "compensation" for self-imposed delays.


I already clarified that it was an option that came up during brainstorming after I kept asking to keep looking for alternatives on the same day. It was more along the lines of "do you think you can make this flight because this is the only one possible today". Even the operator expected a no because she did not even look at that flight until I kept pressing for some option to fly that same day. Considering it was way BEFORE the original scheduled flight and and not much more than an hour after the call would have ended, it is not reasonable to say that was an option.

2. If their IAD plans were "in vain" due to the timing, they could have asked to be sent directly back to SFO.


For what? Their plan was to fly to IAD from ATL and go back to SFO a few days later from another northeastern city. Why would they want to go to SFO only to turn around and fly to IAD less than a day later?


3. If there were better options on FL up to BWI, they could have asked UA for a refund of the value of the ATL-IAD segment and presumably had more than enough to buy the FL segment.


I highly doubt the walkup fare on Airtan would have been cheaper or the same price as their ATL-IAD segment fare booked in advance. FL has increased fares to BWI this year. I know. I travel FL a lot. Besides, I have a job I had to go to later and didn't have the time or energy to play travel agent to that degree. I was already busy googling the airports that plane was scheduled to leave and the weather at each point. And was checking all other United flights to IAD on that day to arm myself with info.

My wish is this. I don't know how much a potential United rep reading this can look into the system and get the real reason. On the Airtran forum, we have employees who frequently check to see what really happened. I dont think the reps my cousins have talked to in recent days lied to her about seeing weather related on the system. And I don't believe the rep lied to us the day of the flight that it was mechanical failure. Is it possible that the first rep assumed mechanical failure because there was no good weather related reason to cancel it but some supervisor later coded it after the scheduled departure time as a weather cancelation? So the reps after that point have no option but to deny any requests for vouchers?

Whenever I come across a situation where it feels like I am beating my head against a wall, I try to self assess and see if I am being unreasonable. But then the facial gestures/body language cues of the other ticket agent at the airport when i told of who we had to deal with(her supervisor) and her advice that sometimes United needs to hear strong complaints by email or they tend to not take initiative for vouchers/appreciation makes me think this is United's mess, not my cousins. She could ahve been diplomatic with me and just given me the link to the appreciation page. Instead, she seemed to encourage me to complain and she seemed helpless because we checked in at her supervisor's counter.

IME some PMCO agents will not do this for you. Though shouldn't be an issue on that route.

"Some" PMCO agents will not do it? In the 3 years I've lived in Houston and flown PMCO, no agent ever agreed to book me on a non-*A carrier (aside from NWA in the SkyTeam days). Eventually, I stopped asking. It's like asking them for a million $$. Snowball's chance in hell they'd ever agree to it. Some would even refuse to book you on CO outside of the fare bucket you purchased. Getting a PMCO to agree to a *A flight without a codeshare was a massive victory.

I generally liked PMCO, but my battles with PMCO agents during irrops were my least favorite part of flying them.

That said, I have no experience with trying to get the new UA to do this (hasn't come up since 3/3). Perhaps it is better since the merger.

"Some" PMCO agents will not do it? In the 3 years I've lived in Houston and flown PMCO, no agent ever agreed to book me on a non-*A carrier (aside from NWA in the SkyTeam days). Eventually, I stopped asking. It's like asking them for a million $$. Snowball's chance in hell they'd ever agree to it. Some would even refuse to book you on CO outside of the fare bucket you purchased. Getting a PMCO to agree to a *A flight without a codeshare was a massive victory.

I generally liked PMCO, but my battles with PMCO agents during irrops were my least favorite part of flying them.

That said, I have no experience with trying to get the new UA to do this (hasn't come up since 3/3). Perhaps it is better since the merger.

Rule 240 for flight disruptions. I haven't had to utilize it recently but I have done it quite a few times when I was NW Platinum and flew skyteam with Continental.

Now maybe things are different with the new United but definitely know your rights in the event of a cancellation and suggest options to get you where you need to go.

Just so it is clear as well. This is from the current United Contract of Carriage

2)
Liability - Except to the extent provided in this Rule and the Warsaw and/or Montreal Conventions, UA shall not be liable for any Schedule Irregularity.
Delay, Misconnection or Cancellation
a) When a Passenger’s ticket is affected because of a Schedule Irregularity caused by UA, UA will take the following measures:
(i) Transport the Passenger on its own flights, subject to availability, to the Destination, next Stopover point, or transfer point shown on its portion of the Ticket, without Stopover in the same class of service, at no additional cost to the Passenger; or


(ii) At the Passenger’s request, provided that the tariff covering the original transportation permits routing via the carrier which will transport the Passenger, UA will re-accommodate the Passenger in the same class of service on the next available flight on another carrier, or combination of carriers, if the length of the delay to the Passenger’s destination exceeds two hours.

So I suggest to all to download the following PDF to their PDA and if you get one of those snippy CO - I don't want to do my job types - whip out the contract of carriage and invoke the rule.

This is specifically for issues that are the sole responsibility of the carrier - mechanical, crew issues and now added to the list IT. But good lck getting them to endorse the ticket over to another carrier when their system is down.

http://www.united.com/web/format/pdf/Contract_of_Carriage.pdf

provided that the tariff covering the original transportation permits routing via the carrier which will transport the Passenger



So does this section really include any other carriers that fly the route, or does it just include partner codeshare flights (like US Airways) that UA prices out on the route when you do a search?

So does this section really include any other carriers that fly the route, or does it just include partner codeshare flights (like US Airways) that UA prices out on the route when you do a search?

This has the roots in the the era of regulation and thus is a holdover rule from that period. So generally it will apply to the legacy carriers - AA, DL, UA, US and probably Alaska. The airlines need to have some interline agreements setup so they can endorse the ticket over to the other carrier and that carrier needs to accept the ticket. So this will not work on the likes of Southwest, Virgin America etc.

In this circumstance United would have been required to put the passengers on Delta if they had requested.

This has the roots in the the era of regulation and thus is a holdover rule from that period. So generally it will apply to the legacy carriers - AA, DL, UA, US and probably Alaska. The airlines need to have some interline agreements setup so they can endorse the ticket over to the other carrier and that carrier needs to accept the ticket. So this will not work on the likes of Southwest, Virgin America etc.

In this circumstance United would have been required to put the passengers on Delta if they had requested.

i have been rerouted on AS during a MX

I think the "compensation chart" still exists. So, a 1K would get much more in this same situation and feel over-entitled as the result. GMs are not allowed to feel this way - take $50 and feel lucky :D

I believe it still exists. The only chance that a GM can get a higher "goodwill" is to fly with an elite.

I spoke to at least 10 people yesterday in the aftermath of the computer meltdown.

Not to be OT - I guess I may be the only exception.

In short, this is what I have experienced yesterday - The Meltdown, 2 MXs from same aircraft, and a "GG OVS DOWNGRADE" due to MX (Honestly - I don't think anyone want to take a risk for an A319 that has been MXed twice (different issues) within 3 hours without getting yourself protected in the next available flight). And yet - I have received nothing so far.

But AFAIK, my experience with UA tends to be a good outcome.

Just to give closure to this thread. Nothing ever came of this. They continued to stick with the false claim that it was weather related when I was told very clearly that day it was mechanical and I checked online and weather was fine for wherever it was coming from and no other comparable flights were canceled. So whoever updated the reason in the system clearly was covering their asses. My cousins kept rehashing what was mentioned here and they had no answer.

They just gave two $50 vouchers(I assume with some restrictions) and told them that they were doing out of goodwill and their goodness of heart or some crap.

A bunch of liars. They are lucky they are not dealing with me. My cousins pretty much gave up and took what was given to them. THey never replied to their email separately and they had to call back for the mere $50 bucks. At some point, why waste time over a futile exercise.


Screw these guys. Luckily, I live in Atlanta and I do not have to take them much. And after this, i will never take them unless I got no options. Such blatant dishonesty is unacceptable. I gotta say , I never had an experience like this when I used to travel Continental in the past. Continental dealt with me badly one time on one messed up flight and fixed it later when I explained by email calmly what went down. This United thing was the rare time where they pretty much stood by their terrible customer experience.

Bad things happen on all airlines. It's how the airline works to rectify it that matters.

Push for compensation but use this as a learning experience as well. If it is a mechanical problem you can request/demand to be put on another carrier if that works better for you...

IME Continental agents won't do this for you. Was on a paid F fare and missed a connection at EWR due to MX delay on the inbound. In the United Club at EWR had three women stare at me like I had just asked for a derivation of string theory when I inquired (as nicely as I could muster) if they could maybe check to see if another airline had a flight that day as opposed to overnight'ing at EWR. They insisted it was "impossible".