United MileagePlus (Consolidated) - First class to Hawaii - worth it?

I am planning my honeymoon for next year, and my fiance really wants to fly first class when we go to Hawaii. We are paying for the flights solely with points, and I am trying to determine if it is worth the extra points to fly F to Hawaii. Neither of us have ever flown first class before, and neither of us has flown internationally at all. I fly several times a year for business, so I have seen some first class seats on a domestic flight, but have no idea what an internationally configured plane would look like, other than seeing pictures in some of the trip reports. As most of you probably know, it is twice as many points to fly first class compared to economy, and unfortunately there is no saver award availability for our dates, so it would be 80,000 each way, per person. I tried to explain to her that we could save our points for another free trip, but I don't have any anecdotal evidence about the differences in domestic first class and economy. So I turn to trusty FT, and hope that some of you can share your opinions. Should I go for first class to Hawaii to make the wifey happy, or convince her to save our points for another trip that would make her happy? :D

Happy wife happy life...

I am planning my honeymoon for next year, and my fiance really wants to fly first class when we go to Hawaii. We are paying for the flights solely with points, and I am trying to determine if it is worth the extra points to fly F to Hawaii. Neither of us have ever flown first class before, and neither of us has flown internationally at all. I fly several times a year for business, so I have seen some first class seats on a domestic flight, but have no idea what an internationally configured plane would look like, other than seeing pictures in some of the trip reports. As most of you probably know, it is twice as many points to fly first class compared to economy, and unfortunately there is no saver award availability for our dates, so it would be 80,000 each way, per person. I tried to explain to her that we could save our points for another free trip, but I don't have any anecdotal evidence about the differences in domestic first class and economy. So I turn to trusty FT, and hope that some of you can share your opinions. Should I go for first class to Hawaii to make the wifey happy, or convince her to save our points for another trip that would make her happy? :D

Happy wife happy life...

I agree "Happy wife Happy life"

I go back and forth several times a year for business and at least once or twice for pleasure as my wife is Hawaiian.

It all depends on whom your flying on. Not all FC are the same nor are the birds.

I am planning my honeymoon for next year, and my fiance really wants to fly first class when we go to Hawaii. We are paying for the flights solely with points, and I am trying to determine if it is worth the extra points to fly F to Hawaii. Neither of us have ever flown first class before, and neither of us has flown internationally at all. I fly several times a year for business, so I have seen some first class seats on a domestic flight, but have no idea what an internationally configured plane would look like, other than seeing pictures in some of the trip reports. As most of you probably know, it is twice as many points to fly first class compared to economy, and unfortunately there is no saver award availability for our dates, so it would be 80,000 each way, per person. I tried to explain to her that we could save our points for another free trip, but I don't have any anecdotal evidence about the differences in domestic first class and economy. So I turn to trusty FT, and hope that some of you can share your opinions. Should I go for first class to Hawaii to make the wifey happy, or convince her to save our points for another trip that would make her happy? :D

Happy wife happy life...

Why ya askin' us? You already have your answer, dude!

1st sentence .......... "and my fiance really wants to fly first class when we go to Hawaii."

I agree "Happy wife Happy life"

I go back and forth several times a year for business and at least once or twice for pleasure as my wife is Hawaiian.

It all depends on whom your flying on. Not all FC are the same nor are the birds.

Oh I know that it varies depending on the airline. We will be flying United, and will be flying from MCO (Orlando) to OGG (Maui) with a stop in LAX.

Does that help? Do you have any specific insight based on the flights you have taken?

Why ya askin' us? You already have your answer, dude!

1st sentence .......... "and my fiance really wants to fly first class when we go to Hawaii."

Haha I know I know. If we were flying international, I would definitely do the first class seats. But what I am afraid of is spending an extra 160k points to fly first class, and then once we're on the plane she/we realize that first class on a domestic flight just isn't worth the extra points, and we just gave up enough points for another trip to Hawaii (or elsewhere) for our 1 year anniversary. That's why I wanted to get some insight here from the people who are more knowledgable about United first class.

Oh I know that it varies depending on the airline. We will be flying United, and will be flying from MCO (Orlando) to OGG (Maui) with a stop in LAX.

Does that help? Do you have any specific insight based on the flights you have taken?

Looking at 9-10 hours of flying - definitely upgrade!

Quick answer is make her happy. I asked the same question a few months ago and was told I would be happy if I saved them for international. We still haven't done Europe, but we do have the points and I can focus on another trip.

How about fly there in Y, back in F. Then you have a comparison and something to look forward to.

...., so I have seen some first class seats on a domestic flight, but have no idea what an internationally configured plane would look like, ......going to Hawaii you are most likely to get a domestic configured plane. That means a slightly larger seat with slightly more leg space (except compared to some exit rows) and slightly better (and free) food choices and beverages. Another potential plus is a 2 seat vs 3-seat arrangement providing a bit more privacy and a little better specialness to the flight.

While this may not be the most maximal use of miles, in the context of the special occasion and your bride's desire, why not!!

For the routing that you are proposing, (mco-lax-ogg), you will be in domestic first class the whole way. Personally, I wouldn't use 80,000 miles/person for this trip - I'd look at Y fares. Of course, as you have noted, the fiancee/wife factor might make it worth it to you. If you can find Saver F tickets, it's a no-brainer for me. Keep looking for flights and make sure to consider alternate routings (MCO-EWR-OGG, MCO-SFO-OGG, etc..).

If you are looking a year out, there is still a chance of saver awards opening up.

Especially if you've never flown F, even the domestic F service to Hawaii is much nicer than coach, and you'll feel special, as you should on your honeymoon. Absolutely go for it.

However, what you should do is look for a better value. You mention a specific routing through LAX: is there a reason for that? For standard award miles, you are in no hurry to book, so if you're resigned to paying that, you might as well wait until closer to your trip to see if saver space opens up on any routing. Alternatively, different routings use different equipment (e.g., IAH-HNL and EWR-HNL have been using some equipment with much nicer seats than standard domestic F), and you could secure those with standard award miles (saver awards are hard to find). If you gave us an idea of your dates and which island, folks who know those routes well could provide guidance on which equipment will be used, and which might provide the best experience.

(And even if you end up paying standard award miles for domestic F seats, you're getting better value as someone doing so from the West coast.)

Do you have status on United? Can you book E+? If so and you pay the taxes with a Chase United credit card you are put on the list for complimentary upgrades. I don't know the exact specifics but it's on the MileagePlus page so something to consider if you don't want to burn the miles.

However, I would say spring for F and confirm now. Yes, flying to Europe or Asia in C or F on a true international widebody carrier will yield a much better experience compared to UA, but make the wife happy and don't second guess yourself.

As WineCountryUA stated, domestic F isn't anything special these days but because of the flight time that extra space and privacy will make it enjoyable along with some adult bevs.

Also, as others have said, look for Saver awards and alternate routing to OGG!

It's definitely worth it for such a long flight, especially given the honeymoon factor. I look at it this way : If you're not going to use your miles for your honeymoon, arguably the most important vacation you'll ever take, why do you have them?

It's your honeymoon, do it.

I have a typical response in these "honeymoon" threads......

While I do hope the best for you.....

Unfortunately, 50% of marriage ends in divorce. Save a F trip for a milestone anniversary.:p

Plus, if you give her First on this trip, by the time you do get to a milestone you will need to do a private jet (as you always have to do better then the last time).

Looking at 9-10 hours of flying - definitely upgrade!

I would disagree because LAX - OGG is cattle car FC...no lay flat....there there were a way to do EWR - OGG or something else to get the lay fat I would recommend that over the cattle car....MOOOOOOO

I would disagree because LAX - OGG is cattle car FC...no lay flat....there there were a way to do EWR - OGG or something else to get the lay fat I would recommend that over the cattle car....MOOOOOOO

Or IAD-OGG is the same bird as EWR

OP imo its sort of a waste to blow the Miles on a Domestic F, sort of like paying extra for a better room at a Motel 6, it aint gonna buy you much these days. its a 764 out of IAD & EWR and I think IAH as well, at least it will give you a little bang for your buck (miles) the flights out of LAX or SFO are nothing to talk about even the 763s and 777s out of SFO to HNL are the domestic birds and imo not worth using my miles on, a free Upgrade or a RPU (Up cert) is good usage but not my Miles

IMHO FC is worth it for a honeymoon but others certainly can differ. However, when looking for availability to Hawaii think about HNL. I have typically found that FC and upgrade availability is much better into HNL than into the outlying islands - they just fly more planes into there.

It is a 15 minute hop from HNL to OGG on Hawaiian Air.

It's your honeymoon, do it.

+ 1

Intl C to asia would have been fine for my (now) wife and I on our honeymoon, she had never flown anything but Y, but it was the honeymoon so spent all of the miles for Intl F asia.

You only take this trip once........right.

I would disagree because LAX - OGG is cattle car FC...no lay flat....there there were a way to do EWR - OGG or something else to get the lay fat I would recommend that over the cattle car....MOOOOOOO

I agree too. We live in Hawaii and most routes are going from UA's larger planes to smaller CO planes and with CO crews. The quality of service has drastically been downgraded in FC. I would recommend that you go E+ and use the miles you save for a really nice FC international award somewhere. FC is not much different then E+ on Hawaii routes now except you do not get a free crappy FC meal. @:-)

LAX-OGG - total waste of 80K miles. If you flew MCO-IAH-HNL-OGG or MCO-EWR(looooong connection)-HNL-OGG, then you'll either get a BF 764 or one of the proposed new 777 variants. From EWR, high chance of an old-BF 764, from IAH, high chance of a lie-flat 764 (hint: go through IAH).

Look at the F fares first - sometimes they are quite reasonable and you can use the points to cover the hotel and come out even.

When flying from the west coast, we almost always use Alaska and take exit row aisles - no way we're going to burn miles on such a short flight. Even the long flights on UA offer basic domestic F transcon catering - nothing like the Continental service a couple years back.

If I were doing this, I would try to go out of EWR or IAD, possibly IAH, but stay East then take the direct over....

If you are looking for first class BANG, I used to fly Alaskan Airlines DCA to LAX and/or SEA and the day of, they sell their first class seats for $100 each. Well worth it... Try something like that

80,000 is a lot of miles, but it could be worse

I would avoid the LAX jump....

HNL has more saver award tickets available. You can then buy HA ticket to OGG for the last leg, which should not cost a fortune for the 30-min ride. Good luck.

HNL has more saver award tickets available. You can then buy HA ticket to OGG for the last leg, which should not cost a fortune for the 30-min ride. Good luck.

Only problem is you will have to pay for checked bags. I did this a few weeks ago.

Unless you are making a connection and they transfer the bags.

How about fly there in Y, back in F. Then you have a comparison and something to look forward to.

I was going to suggest the same thing . . . on the way the anticipation of the honeymoon plus your existing fatigue will make Y tolerable. On the way back, when you don't want it to end, you go in F and get some sleep.

I'll be flying out to Kauai on Friday with my wife, we'll be in first class both ways, and I think it is definitely worth it. Yes, this doesn't compare to international first class, but you will still get better seats and better service and overall a better experience compared to coach and on a 9-10 hour journey each way that will make a difference. You'll also get other "extras" such as premium check in, shorter security, earlier boarding, ...

Having done EWR-HNL a number of times both in F & in Y, F is the only way to go for this 10+/-hour flight. Transferring from the main terminal in HNL to the "Interisland Terminal" is a bit of a PITA; be sure to check your bags all the way from MCO to OGG.

Spring for the upgrade, its a special trip, make it a special experience.

Or IAD-OGG is the same bird as EWR

OP imo its sort of a waste to blow the Miles on a Domestic F, sort of like paying extra for a better room at a Motel 6, it aint gonna buy you much these days. its a 764 out of IAD & EWR and I think IAH as well, at least it will give you a little bang for your buck (miles) the flights out of LAX or SFO are nothing to talk about even the 763s and 777s out of SFO to HNL are the domestic birds and imo not worth using my miles on, a free Upgrade or a RPU (Up cert) is good usage but not my Miles

Is the IAD-HNL 764 a lie-flat?

I used to do this route 5 times a year - If you can connect on a widebody from ORD-IAH-IAD-EWR then consider it. If you are on 757's its a total waste of money/miles. Convince her to be cheap on air and spend some extra money there on a nice dinner or a special gift. I also agree with the other suggestions.

I agree that 80k miles is a lot to part with for a lackluster F experience, but you'll earn back at least that many (brownie) points if you go for it.

UA uses old metal from the west coast to hawaii. Just did LAX-OGG on the PMCO slaveship 757 in F and took the redeye back OGG-SFO on the PMUA ghetto bird 767 in F. Awesome experience? No. But does F make it a better trip? Absolutely.

If you can swing IAH and don't mind the connection to inter island, you'll have a much better F experience. Could also buy a coach fare with cash and then miles+copay into F.

Is the IAD-HNL 764 a lie-flat?

Dont know but I booked it for my Jan trip (cheapest fare) even if not its still better then the reg 757 or 737s that they use ex LA or SF

Now if only the WL will clear

I used to do this route 5 times a year - If you can connect on a widebody from ORD-IAH-IAD-EWR then consider it. If you are on 757's its a total waste of money/miles. Convince her to be cheap on air and spend some extra money there on a nice dinner or a special gift. I also agree with the other suggestions.

Right now, the 777 from ORD has a FC seat no better than a 757 except that it's in a much bigger aircraft. You will probably have a better chance for a better premium seat out of IAD or EWR or IAH. I'm flying EWR-IAH-HNL, same return, in January using miles. Originally using 80K for the 767 recliner, but with an aircraft change to an older international 777 (SeatGuru's Worldwide 1), I upgraded to the lie flat seats for the additional 10K each way.

The other argument stated previously to save the miles for the real vacation has a lot of merit. You don't need to spend the extra miles or dollars in order to recline going over and coming back. I'm sure you'll both find time for reclining while on Maui anyway. :D

Ok wow. I appreciate all of the responses but I am officially in over my head now :confused:

I guess first of all is that I don't know how to choose my routing. I just have been inputting my origin and destination into the website and looking at what it spits out (I'm a newbie!).

Maybe if I give out my dates and origin/destination, some kind soul can help me out :D

We will be flying out on 7/14/13, from MCO to Maui (OGG I assume). I have 155,000 United miles and my fiance has 55,000 United miles. I also have 100k AA miles and 65,000 BA miles, if someone can suggest a better usage of those instead of UA miles. My thought was that we would fly out there on either UA or AA, and fly back on the other.

To those who suggested to pay for the flight and try to use points for hotels, I have MORE than enough Marriott/Hilton points and free nights, but I am so new to playing the miles games with the airlines that I really don't know how to maximize my miles. Thanks in advance!

I am planning my honeymoon for next year, and my fiance really wants to fly first class when we go to Hawaii. We are paying for the flights solely with points, and I am trying to determine if it is worth the extra points to fly F to Hawaii. Neither of us have ever flown first class before, and neither of us has flown internationally at all. I fly several times a year for business, so I have seen some first class seats on a domestic flight, but have no idea what an internationally configured plane would look like, other than seeing pictures in some of the trip reports. As most of you probably know, it is twice as many points to fly first class compared to economy, and unfortunately there is no saver award availability for our dates, so it would be 80,000 each way, per person. I tried to explain to her that we could save our points for another free trip, but I don't have any anecdotal evidence about the differences in domestic first class and economy. So I turn to trusty FT, and hope that some of you can share your opinions. Should I go for first class to Hawaii to make the wifey happy, or convince her to save our points for another trip that would make her happy? :D

Happy wife happy life...

I don't know how many of your replies came from women - but I'm a woman - and I like to be pampered. Especially on my "celebration trips" (although I never had a honeymoon - I've been married 40+ years and will be 65 next month - so I've had plenty of "celebration trips"). Go F on your honeymoon. At a minimum - the last thing you want on your honeymoon flight is being squished together in a 3 across - sitting next to someone with a crying "lap kid".

That said - look into any credit card deals you can get now that will get you more miles (like a United Card - or a Chase Sapphire card). The more miles you have - the less you will mind spending them.

Also look at the best routings - best equipment for this route. I assume you aren't looking at any other airlines. Correct me if I'm wrong.

FWIW - we've flown to Hawaii from Miami before. It is a long trip - longer than some trips to Europe once you take plane changes into account. So it's not like you're throwing away miles for a trip from MCO to LAS.

Also - perhaps some of the other people here can answer this question. If you can only get a Standard award now - and there's a Saver award available down the road - can you take advantage of the newly available Saver award?

I booked our trip to Hawaii as a 50th birthday present for my husband. We went to Oahu - Maui - Kauai and the the Big Island (trip was almost 2 weeks). Our favorite island (and the most romantic IMO) was the Big Island. Maui was kind of commercial for our taste. Except for the drive to Hana (an impossible trip to do in 1 day - unless you like *really* long day trips).

Don't know what time of year you're traveling. But if it's in shoulder or low season - you should be able to find some good deals on luxury hotels (with various perks if you book through a Virtuoso or Four Seasons Preferred Partner travel agent). Go over to the luxury hotel forum and see what the people there have to say. Make this a memorable trip - even if it means not inviting 30 wedding guests you haven't seen for 10 years ;). Robyn

Is the IAD-HNL 764 a lie-flat?

Currently a 767 domestic configuration.

Ok wow. I appreciate all of the responses but I am officially in over my head now :confused:

I guess first of all is that I don't know how to choose my routing. I just have been inputting my origin and destination into the website and looking at what it spits out (I'm a newbie!).

Maybe if I give out my dates and origin/destination, some kind soul can help me out :D

We will be flying out on 7/14/13, from MCO to Maui (OGG I assume). I have 155,000 United miles and my fiance has 55,000 United miles. I also have 100k AA miles and 65,000 BA miles, if someone can suggest a better usage of those instead of UA miles. My thought was that we would fly out there on either UA or AA, and fly back on the other.

To those who suggested to pay for the flight and try to use points for hotels, I have MORE than enough Marriott/Hilton points and free nights, but I am so new to playing the miles games with the airlines that I really don't know how to maximize my miles. Thanks in advance!

Perhaps some food for thought (since you're almost a year away from your trip). Why go from MCO to OGG when it's hurricane/typhoon season in both places? Being a long term resident of Florida - I wouldn't want to worry about tropical storms both where I live - and where my travel destination is. Not to mention that one of my main desires when I get out of Florida in the summer is going somewhere where it's cool (it will probably be cooler in Maui than Orlando in the summer - but the ocean water there is always too cold - at least by my Florida standards - for swimming). Why did you pick Hawaii (except that lots of people go on honeymoons there)? Think about it. Keeping in mind what the two of you like to do. And perhaps consider some other places. My favorite "closer to home" place to cool off in the summer is the Pacific Northwest. We'll be going to Sweden in a couple of weeks to cool off. But if you've never taken a vacation in the Pacific Northwest (both US and Canadian side) - I'd definitely put it on my radar screen. Robyn

Also look at the best routings - best equipment for this route. I assume you aren't looking at any other airlines. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Don't know what time of year you're traveling. But if it's in shoulder or low season - you should be able to find some good deals on luxury hotels (with various perks if you book through a Virtuoso or Four Seasons Preferred Partner travel agent). Go over to the luxury hotel forum and see what the people there have to say. Make this a memorable trip - even if it means not inviting 30 wedding guests you haven't seen for 10 years ;). Robyn

Try www.vrbo.com (http://www.vrbo.com). Select Hawaii on the map, Maui, then the section of Maui you want (probably Lahaina and North). Specific condos and rooms you book with the owners. They can be much better deals than going through the chains and give you more room to boot.

There are a lot of ways to waste money on a wedding but this isn't one of them. Speaking from experience, FLY FIRST CLASS !!! I didn't do it and regret it.

To those who suggested to pay for the flight and try to use points for hotels, I have MORE than enough Marriott/Hilton points and free nights, but I am so new to playing the miles games with the airlines that I really don't know how to maximize my miles. Thanks in advance!

:confused::confused::rolleyes:

my friend you have it all backwards! Theres not much you can do while sitting in F, yet for the Hotel you will end up at a Hilton or Marriott?? thats 2 chains that Never would come to mind if I was heading to HI for my Honeymoon. OK The Grand Wailea is nice but not for 80k a night, the Marriott on OGG is like a child care center as are most Hotels on Maui. Heard the Fairmount or 4 Seasons are very nice but both have much nicer spreads on the Big Island (KOA) not cheap but thats where Id be heading to atop of the line place w/o the water park atmosphere that the GW has along with the tons of kids (at least when I was there)

Yea F is nice but not if you are gonna end up at a child care center hotel! Id rather score with a GREAT hotel then F

:confused::confused::rolleyes:

my friend you have it all backwards! Theres not much you can do while sitting in F, yet for the Hotel you will end up at a Hilton or Marriott?? thats 2 chains that Never would come to mind if I was heading to HI for my Honeymoon. OK The Grand Wailea is nice but not for 80k a night, the Marriott on OGG is like a child care center as are most Hotels on Maui. Heard the Fairmount or 4 Seasons are very nice but both have much nicer spreads on the Big Island (KOA) not cheap but thats where Id be heading to atop of the line place w/o the water park atmosphere that the GW has along with the tons of kids (at least when I was there)

Yea F is nice but not if you are gonna end up at a child care center hotel! Id rather score with a GREAT hotel then F

Well since we are staying at the Ritz Carlton Kapalua and the Marriott Beach Resort and Spa in Wailea, I think we'll be ok. I have read a ton of reviews and none of them have the same negative remarks that you make. I travel for work, so in addition to credit card bonuses, I have a ton of Marriott and Hilton points saved up from work travel, so we won't be staying at a "child care center." Traveling in F or not has no bearing on what type of hotel we are staying at.

I feel as though everyone responded so quickly initially and now that I have put out my specific dates and flight info, no one is paying this thread anymore attention. :(

It would be great if someone could help me out with determining a better route than MCO-LAX-OGG!

1) Coming from a guy who didnt invest in F on his honeymoon, dont make the same mistake; I still hear about it 31 years later

2) Coming from a guy who didnt invest in F on his honeymoon, dont make the same mistake; I still hear about it 31 years later

3) Find better equipment if able (i.e. go thru IAH if able)

Well since we are staying at the Ritz Carlton Kapalua and the Marriott Beach Resort and Spa in Wailea, I think we'll be ok. I have read a ton of reviews and none of them have the same negative remarks that you make. I travel for work, so in addition to credit card bonuses, I have a ton of Marriott and Hilton points saved up from work travel, so we won't be staying at a "child care center." Traveling in F or not has no bearing on what type of hotel we are staying at.

You'll love the Ritz pool. Bit of a walk to the beach. If you play golf, the Plantation Course is not to be missed.

and make sure you have dinner at Merriman's while you're staying in Kapalua

It's your honeymoon, you have miles...get first class. It's all about the seating space. Yes, you get meals and drinks but United First has been downgraded from BusinessFirst. Try connecting thru IAD, IAH or EWR where you get recliner-style seats that are much more comfortable than those on the west coast, ORD and DEN flights. And you may get lucky and get a reconfigured 764 with lie-flat seats. That seems to be happening on the IAH flights...Good luck, and congratulations! BTW, since you're staying at the Marriott, try Alan Wong's Amasia next door at the Grand Wailea and Ferarro's at the Four Seasons. Alan Wong is our favorite island chef, very creative and delicious. And Ferraro's is simply the best outdoor restaurant in Hawaii for sunset and full moons. Very romantic. Make reservations for an outdoor table, preferably on the terrace overlooking the bay and Lanai.

I feel as though everyone responded so quickly initially and now that I have put out my specific dates and flight info, no one is paying this thread anymore attention. :(

It would be great if someone could help me out with determining a better route than MCO-LAX-OGG!

You are looking at pretty much the 330 day window and are at least considering the option of standard awards. This is good. Here is my advice:

1) Be patient. UA will probably open up some saver F inventory on MCO-OGG at some point in the future. That should be your goal.

2)Keep checking the website. Some of us have been as an*l as checking daily to look for inventory on the routes we want (ahem.. SQ F anyone?)

3) If you are looking for a specific route (like through EWR to try and get BusinessFirst seats), you can break it up to search on the website, or you can call UA.

4)Check back here at FT to see if any HI routes have BusinessFirst seats. Then concentrate you efforts looking for those routes.

If you are willing to spend the 160K miles for Standard F awards, you can wait a long time to book those. Paid F is not that common on HI routes, so you can keep an eye on the flights before you pull the trigger.

If you are getting them with miles, then sure, get them with UA, but if you are actually buying the F (or business) tickets, DO NOT buy UA, it is money down the drain. I just did SFO-HNL on an ancient 777 where F was worse than economy plus on certain domestic 757. The chairs are standard domestic business, there are no individual screens (you have to look up at a bad monitor that does not work half the time), and food was not so good.

The next question is can you both get FC, bet you don't fly united, one will be in business...

If you are willing to spend the 160K miles for Standard F awards, you can wait a long time to book those. Paid F is not that common on HI routes, so you can keep an eye on the flights before you pull the trigger.

Beat me to this advice while I was checking equipment.

1. You will be able to get a standard F award for 7/14/13 on 7/13/13, so there is no rush here; you will not realistically do worse by waiting. (Except for the modest close-in fee.)

2. Between now and then, it is very likely that saver F will open up on some acceptable routing. It might come six months, four months, 90 days, six weeks, two weeks, etc. Keep checking (it is advisable to check segment-by-segment).

2b. It is relatively unlikely that saver F will open up on routes with lie-flat two-class F.

3. UA has a lot of planes in hard product conversion now, and the HI routes seem to get a lot of equipment swaps (IAH-HNL for 7/14/13 has an old config 3-class pmUA 772 list now; I'd be skeptical that will fly, but you can redeem into a lie-flat F suite for 100K miles). It is hard to predict what will fly a year out, but IAH, EWR and IAD are most likely to get some version of nicer seat, though probably not nicer service. Personally, I like the old C recliners better than the new C suites for day flights.

What I would do is this:
A. Not be worried about having not booked this today, or this week or this year.
B. Check very regularly (several days a week if you're obsessive) for saver availability out of IAH/EWR/IAD and maybe DEN to HNL.
C. Check regularly for saver availability on other routes, esp ORD or those connecting through the west coast. If it pops up, then you have decide whether you want to go for the possibility of nicer seats or grab domestic F. (You can change later for the change fee.) In your shoes, I would grab any reasonable saver F routing.

Being in First Class for your honeymoon is pretty much required, now that your fiancee has her heart set on it. :) We rode up front on our honeymoon to Maui, and it definitely made the trip special.

Although it's tempting to suggest that you look into paid First fares, or cash upgrades for paid Coach tickets, it may not be realistic if you're also trying to afford a wedding. Hawaii fares tend to be very expensive in any case, so paid tickets not be an option even if money isn't much of a concern.

In my opinion, if you have to pay for a Standard award, you should not settle for long flight in a domestic First Class cabin. There is a three-class 777 from Houston to Honolulu. Business Class would be nicer than domestic First Class.

+1 on others' advice to wait on booking Standard awards. Even if you book Standard, and a Saver award becomes available, it is worth a re-deposit fee to cancel the Standard award and grab the Saver instead.

To those who suggested to pay for the flight and try to use points for hotels, I have MORE than enough Marriott/Hilton points and free nights, but I am so new to playing the miles games with the airlines that I really don't know how to maximize my miles. Thanks in advance!
If you need a bunch of miles in one account to purchase the award tickets, you could use your Marriott points to buy a package award. These awards combine hotel nights and airline points. It can be a good deal because the mileage conversion rate for a hotel + mileage package is a lot better than the conversion rate for miles alone. The package conversion is 2.25-4.0 Marriott points per UA mile, vs. 3.5-6.6 Marriott points per UA mile if you just trade Marriott points for miles. In addition, you get an award for 5-7 nights at a Marriott property. You could save the hotel award for your first anniversary. Here's the link to the Packages page: https://www.marriott.com/rewards/usepoints/morepack.mi

Sorry if I'm overloading you with information. Please PM me if you have more questions.

Well since we are staying at the Ritz Carlton Kapalua and the Marriott Beach Resort and Spa in Wailea, I think we'll be ok. I have read a ton of reviews and none of them have the same negative remarks that you make. I travel for work, so in addition to credit card bonuses, I have a ton of Marriott and Hilton points saved up from work travel, so we won't be staying at a "child care center." Traveling in F or not has no bearing on what type of hotel we are staying at.

I feel as though everyone responded so quickly initially and now that I have put out my specific dates and flight info, no one is paying this thread anymore attention. :(

It would be great if someone could help me out with determining a better route than MCO-LAX-OGG!

My bad forgot about the Ritz, although I was never there Id agree usually Ritzs are Not child care centers

As for the flights its simple sort of go onto united.com and put in MCO-OGG and see what they show as the options my guess EWR and IAD wont show, so look at the fare class in the right most box to see if the bucket that Miles Upgrades come out of are available (not sure it its the R or not). then go back to the beginning and put in MCO-IAD and click above that Multicity and for flight 2 put in IAD-OGG (theres no non-stop but theres IAD-HNL as is the case with IAH & EWR) do this as a 1 way then do MCO-EWR and EWR-OGG, then do teh same for teh Return

This is exactly what I just did for my HNL trip and my SIN trip this way I was able to play with the dates where I saw Confirmed space and flight times and routings that worked for me. Then I put it all in as 1 r/t and made my res.

The only neg I can think of is most likely all 3 (6) EWR/IAD/IAH to/from HNL wiont have any confirmed space especially for 2. Formy Jan trip there was nothing on those flights yet the cabins were completely empty.

I am planning my honeymoon for next year, and my fiance really wants to fly first class when we go to Hawaii. We are paying for the flights solely with points, and I am trying to determine if it is worth the extra points to fly F to Hawaii. Neither of us have ever flown first class before, and neither of us has flown internationally at all. I fly several times a year for business, so I have seen some first class seats on a domestic flight, but have no idea what an internationally configured plane would look like, other than seeing pictures in some of the trip reports. As most of you probably know, it is twice as many points to fly first class compared to economy, and unfortunately there is no saver award availability for our dates, so it would be 80,000 each way, per person. I tried to explain to her that we could save our points for another free trip, but I don't have any anecdotal evidence about the differences in domestic first class and economy. So I turn to trusty FT, and hope that some of you can share your opinions. Should I go for first class to Hawaii to make the wifey happy, or convince her to save our points for another trip that would make her happy? :D

Happy wife happy life...

You should absolutely, positively book First Class.

Its your honeymoon. It doesn't matter which configuration or which seat, either, so forget about all that nonsense of trying to reason through this decision with some other-thought logic. Unless you are both 5'0" tall and weigh 95 pounds and don't like someone bringing you refills on your drinks every so often and do like the thrill that comes with the possibility of having a row-mate who is traveling with a crying lap child then you will be much happier riding in the front.

You don't want to be reminiscing years from now thinking, wow, I'm glad we flew all day in coach to save some of our miles for that regional jet trip to Tulsa to watch the Drillers instead of using them all and splurging on First Class for our honeymoon flight to Hawaii. (And I like the Tulsa Drillers!)

...I feel as though everyone responded so quickly initially and now that I have put out my specific dates and flight info, no one is paying this thread anymore attention. :(

It would be great if someone could help me out with determining a better route than MCO-LAX-OGG!

I think a lot of people here have given you very useful input (although we are all not in total agreement about everything).

I think there are times when you have to start learning how to do some stuff yourself - and this is one of them. Robyn

Will pm you with some suggestions. In short, definitely go for first, but not for 160,000 points per ticket.

OK, to summarize points of agreement:

- Go F
- Don't buy F now unless it's SAVER F.

You'll be able to get standard F awards anytime.

Now, my tips:

1) Being willing to fly into HNL will get you a lot more availability and much better equipment options and you can take a cheap island hopper flight to your final destination. I would consider MCO-EWR/IAD/IAH-HNL-OGG. The hop to OGG will cost you 5k miles per ticket.

2) For award travel, you can find availability through different connection cities searching one leg at a time. For example, you can search EWR-HNL, IAD-HNL, IAH-HNL, and if you find an award there, you can add a flight from MCO at the same price.

Keep in mind that you can use different connecting cities.

Also, I want to make sure you know this, but UA F Standard Awards are 80,000 PER PERSON PER DIRECTION. I know you said you were going to fly UA one way and AA the other way, but as it stands you CAN NOT buy 2 standard one-way tickets in F to Hawaii even if you wanted to. Your fiance doesn't have the 80k miles to buy even one ticket, and your 155,000 miles are 5k short of being able to buy 2 tickets, and no, you can't combine them.

Shouldn't be any trouble for you to pick up another 5k miles by the time it matters but want to make sure you know what you're in to.

I have a question - why is anyone suggesting buying Y and upgrading? That locks him into a paid itinerary where he can only upgrade to that flight's availability, and it'll cost him the Y fare, plus 35,000 to 60,000 miles, plus up to a $1k copay. It's almost like you're paying UA a Y fare just for fun.

I think you're back on safe ground and focused on optimizing your F award to Hawaii, but in case you're still on a fence, I've got one question:
Do you want this to be your first marriage or your last?

But on to the optimization!

You've gotten a lot of good advice from people about the timing of the awards and your routing options. One thing I can say is that the reward travel itinerary constructor isn't the best for trips from MCO to OGG. What you can and should do is a little research into your target flights for your overwater leg. I agree that IAH-HNL should be your target overwater leg. Once you've picked your target, look at flights that connect to it to see what your options are. Remember that if you're flying into HNL late, the connection to OGG may be a bit tight. You have to weigh the potential hassle of that vs. flying a narrowbody direct to OGG in domestic first.

Currently a 767 domestic configuration.
IAD-HNL is a 76H or "high density" 767-400. It has the old CO barcalounger-style BusinessFirst seats with 55" pitch and personal (loop) video. I wouldn't call it a domestic configuration but rather an inferior international config.

Academic at any rate as this equipment will probably be gone by July 2013. Best guess is that it will be a newly reconfigured 772A with repurposed seats from PS business-class.

Ok wow. I appreciate all of the responses but I am officially in over my head now :confused:

I guess first of all is that I don't know how to choose my routing. I just have been inputting my origin and destination into the website and looking at what it spits out (I'm a newbie!).

Maybe if I give out my dates and origin/destination, some kind soul can help me out :D

We will be flying out on 7/14/13, from MCO to Maui (OGG I assume). I have 155,000 United miles and my fiance has 55,000 United miles. I also have 100k AA miles and 65,000 BA miles, if someone can suggest a better usage of those instead of UA miles. My thought was that we would fly out there on either UA or AA, and fly back on the other.

To those who suggested to pay for the flight and try to use points for hotels, I have MORE than enough Marriott/Hilton points and free nights, but I am so new to playing the miles games with the airlines that I really don't know how to maximize my miles. Thanks in advance!

You mention leaving on July 14. As close to that as July 10, there is an itineray, MCO-IAH-HNL-OGG, domestic First Class from MCO-IAH, old international First Class (lie-flat beds) IAH-HNL, and standard economy seat on Hawaiian for the 30 minute ride, HNL-OGG. 55,000 miles, one way, per person.

Nothing similar has opened up yet for the return trip. But, as you can see, it is doable if you keep on top of it. Good luck.

Yes. Domestic FC is nothing to brag about but sure beats the cattle car in back. Bust off about 70 more posts on FT and get access to the CC forum. Then book lowest up-gradable economy and trade something for a couple RPUs. Who knows someone might hook you up with RPUs for little or nothing, sure doesn't hurt to try. You can always buy up nearer to departure date if unsuccessful.

Since I live in Hawaii, I've flown back and forth hundreds of times over the years.

Personally, (and that's what it comes down to), I would save the miles for another trip and sit in E+, if you can.

Of course, FC is a better ride but for that amount of miles, I don't think it's worth it. Now this is coming from someone who almost always flies in FC due to my status.

Since I live in Hawaii, I've flown back and forth hundreds of times over the years.

Personally, (and that's what it comes down to), I would save the miles for another trip and sit in E+, if you can.

Of course, FC is a better ride but for that amount of miles, I don't think it's worth it. Now this is coming from someone who almost always flies in FC due to my status.

Finally - someone honest - out of the 10 or so who say don't do it - 7 are 1K fliers who wouldn't be in coach with one of the easiest upgrades in the system - kinda kidding, but maybe they don't want you to take their seat.

Don't fly 10 hours in E+ - that's nuts.

How is that conversation going to go - honey, had the miles - but decided on economy for our 10 hour trip to Hawaii on our HONEYMOON! Love you.

If you haven't already booked, look at flying through SFO. They use 767 on the Hawaii flights are the FC seats are better than standard domestic seats.

If you haven't already booked, look at flying through SFO. They use 767 on the Hawaii flights are the FC seats are better than standard domestic seats.

These planes are being replaced with CO 757's and CO crews....

Since I live in Hawaii, I've flown back and forth hundreds of times over the years.

Personally, (and that's what it comes down to), I would save the miles for another trip and sit in E+, if you can.

Of course, FC is a better ride but for that amount of miles, I don't think it's worth it. Now this is coming from someone who almost always flies in FC due to my status.

Totally agree...FC HI is not what it used to be and is getting worse since the merger IMHO...

Wow I cannot believe the number of responses I have gotten here. Obviously there is no way I can respond to each post but I truly appreciate all of the advice. I think what I have gleaned from the responses is that I should keep checking (daily if possible) to see if saver availability opens up, and to try my darndest to fly through IAH or IAD, but above all else make sure to fly F to please the wife! Thanks for all the replies and for those who PMed me!

Definitely fly F.

But I would not necessarily add a connection in HNL just to get a better F seat. I would consider what your wife-to-be would want more, a quicker trip or a better seat. My wife would have preferred the former, so we would have slummed it in domestic F if it meant having one fewer connection. YMMV.

Why don't you see if IAD/EWR to OGG has Saver Awards and buy a coach ticket from MCO to IAD/EWR (if that isn't available). This way you will have seats that turn into lie-flats.

Congrats by the way!

In my opinion, flying F/C is never worth it - unless it is free. Making a wife happy is a good thing. I prefer more egalitarian women.

In my opinion, flying F/C is never worth it - unless it is free. Making a wife happy is a good thing. I prefer more egalitarian women.

So we have, get FC, don't get FC, or change fiancees.

Change fee on that last one seems kinda high.

So we have, get FC, don't get FC, or change fiancees.

Change fee on that last one seems kinda high.

Cute!

In my opinion, flying F/C is never worth it - unless it is free. Making a wife happy is a good thing. I prefer more egalitarian women.

If an airline offers $150-200 one-way upgrade for a transcon, I think it's worth it

If an airline offers $150-200 one-way upgrade for a transcon, I think it's worth it

A little more comfort for 5 hours vs. groceries for a week+

A little more comfort for 5 hours vs. soup kitchen food for 100s

A little more comfort for 5 hours vs. about 50 great used books to read

Its all a matter of personal values.

A little more comfort for 5 hours vs. groceries for a week+

A little more comfort for 5 hours vs. soup kitchen food for 100s

A little more comfort for 5 hours vs. about 50 great used books to read

Its all a matter of personal values.

OP - think carefully before you answer this question :D How many times are you ever going to get married???

That's a good enough reason to splurge IMO.

Wow I cannot believe the number of responses I have gotten here. Obviously there is no way I can respond to each post but I truly appreciate all of the advice. I think what I have gleaned from the responses is that I should keep checking (daily if possible) to see if saver availability opens up, and to try my darndest to fly through IAH or IAD, but above all else make sure to fly F to please the wife! Thanks for all the replies and for those who PMed me!

Of course you don't have to respond to all the messages. But talk with your fiancee about the possibility of going some place other than Maui in July. Like Portland/Seattle/Vancouver and the coastal areas/islands there (including Victoria BC). These are some cities with lots of younger people - interesting stuff to do - excellent eats (a lot of it not that expensive) - and some excellent romantic inn type places to stay outside the urban areas.

And you wouldn't have to deal with all this airfare stuff. I'm sure that the carriers that fly to these places from MCO (no matter what carriers you're dealing with) - well they probably don't have much in the way of non-stops - and it makes no sense whatsoever to pay lots of points to go like MCO/IAH/SEA F.

FWIW - the only people I know who go to Maui on a regular basis are people I know in the upper midwest (like Minneapolis) who go there in the winter when they start to get crazy being housebound with kids during the winter. People on FT who write about honeymoons. Older people from where I live who go there to play golf - and younger people from where I live who like to surf. My dominant impression of Maui was it was like Miami Beach with hills/a volcano - and really cold water.

So where did you get the idea of going to Maui on your honeymoon? Robyn

BTW, you should consider hitting up the folks on the Hawaii forum for advice on things to see and do, restaurants, etc.

Also, before you settle on your flight plans, now is the time to check to make sure you want to spend the whole time on one island. If you decide to visit another island, this opens the possibility of another flight on which saver F might be available. Either that or it rationalizes your decision to fly through HNL.

My $0.02...

Its ~10 hours of flying. You'll be much more comfortable in F, no matter which F, than in Y for that length of time. I fly east coast-HI several times a year.

I just booked JAX-IAD-HNL-OGG. I did a standard award, as it is close to the holidays and not much saver opening up (but I will continue to check). As others have suggested, IAH or EWR are good cities to connect through, as they also offer F cabins a bit better than the standard domestic F.

Other choices for you, down the scale a bit, would be MCO-LAX-or-SFO-OGG. Standard domestic F, but the stop on the west coast does break it up nicely. I would avoid ORD, as the ORD-HNL/OGG flight is a standard domestic F, and is longer than ORD-LHR. DEN-OGG is also long.

On the way back, I would fly OGG-LAX or SFO, in the daytime, and stay overnight at a hotel. Then fly to MCO the next day.

I would also see about using miles for your wife, and buying a Y ticket for yourself and upgrading it. That way you'll get some EQMs and some RDMs back, and won't spend as many miles. And you might be luckier finding one Saver F award than two.

Hawaii is nice any time of the year, unlike Florida, which is too hot in the summer and the water is too cold in the winter. The water is swim-able 360 days per year (the other 5 it is probably too stormy). The water never gets too cold here.

Your fiance will be able to brag to her friends that she flew first class to Hawaii. Go for it. Keep her very very very happy

I agree "Happy wife Happy life"

I go back and forth several times a year for business and at least once or twice for pleasure as my wife is Hawaiian.

It all depends on whom your flying on. Not all FC are the same nor are the birds.

Whipped

So where did you get the idea of going to Maui on your honeymoon? Robyn

I've been to Maui once before, and my fiance has always wanted to go to Hawaii. We aren't trying to find a place with a lot of young people, and it doesn't really matter what types of people you are used to seeing go there. We love visiting places with terrain different than what we're used to in Florida. We love tropical, exotic locales, and have been to most of the popular Caribbean islands. It really was a no-brainer for us and our preferences.

I'm not sure if previously covered, but I can tell you that F class for the the MCO-LAX flight, although more than 5 hours long, isnt really all that great.

I've flown this route many times and usually the plane is an old rickety Airbus 319, so for half your trip at least, the amount of miles you are spending (320K) for the two of you to make the trip is waaay too much IMHO.

I havent flown the LAX-OGG route however, but it looks like its on 757 aircraft, so although you might get better service than other domestic flights, dont expect too much.

Save your points - For 200,000 (saver) points total, you can both fly to South America in a "real" BF cabin - which will have a lot more amenities and you will feel like you got more bang for your buck

I've been to Maui once before, and my fiance has always wanted to go to Hawaii. We aren't trying to find a place with a lot of young people, and it doesn't really matter what types of people you are used to seeing go there. We love visiting places with terrain different than what we're used to in Florida. We love tropical, exotic locales, and have been to most of the popular Caribbean islands. It really was a no-brainer for us and our preferences.
I really love visiting the Big Island of Hawaii. The terrain there is varied and distinctive, from the beaches of Kona to the upcountry ranches of Waimea, the rugged Hamakua coast, wet and fertile Hilo to the strange alien landscapes of Volcanoes National Park. I even like the super-resorts in Kohala - oases in the middle of barren lava fields.

I've also never visited the observatories on Mauna Kea but hope to one day.

But nothing wrong with Maui... and it has the best snorkling and great beaches.

If so and you pay the taxes with a Chase United credit card you are put on the list for complimentary upgrades.

So the unfortunate part about this is that upgrades on award tickets are for the credit card holder only! Meaning that if the OP were to do this, he could get upgraded and leave his new wife back in E/E+ -- not a great way to start your new married life! However, if she were to also get a United credit card (separate from yours), then it's possible that you two could both get upgraded that way.

I've been to Maui once before, and my fiance has always wanted to go to Hawaii. We aren't trying to find a place with a lot of young people, and it doesn't really matter what types of people you are used to seeing go there. We love visiting places with terrain different than what we're used to in Florida. We love tropical, exotic locales, and have been to most of the popular Caribbean islands. It really was a no-brainer for us and our preferences.


How much flexibility do you have? You can get to Bali leaving 16 July via ORD and DOH in J class with QR for the long segments for 60k miles each. Scroll down to the bottom of the display. You don't mention your return date but you may be able to route DPS-NRT-HNL on the return in J with a stopover.

If you really have your heart set on Hawaii, I would find photos of both the Y cabin and F cabin, show them to your fiance and tell her that the choices are: F to Hawaii and nothing next year or Y to Hawaii and Europe next year. See what her priorities are when you put it that way, then respect her decision.

I'm in a fairly similar situation.

Is it pretty easy to clear the LAX-OGG upgrade using the CPU? I have a flight next month, and it shows F8 & R3. I can confirm the upgrade using the RPU, however perhaps I'm better off gambling on the CPU?

So the unfortunate part about this is that upgrades on award tickets are for the credit card holder only! ....However, if she were to also get a United credit card (separate from yours), then it's possible that you two could both get upgraded that way.

hummm, do I correct this mistaken information or not....? Ok, it's not exactly a big secret on FT that this hasn't been the case since the day upgrades on awards began. As long as the miles come from an elite account + card holder, you're on the list. That's not to say this won't stop eventually, but for now... :cool:

I'm in a fairly similar situation.

Is it pretty easy to clear the LAX-OGG upgrade using the CPU? I have a flight next month, and it shows F8 & R3. I can confirm the upgrade using the RPU, however perhaps I'm better off gambling on the CPU?

Yes this is probably one of the easiest upgrades in the system. Easily made it with a companion on a recent flight and I'm only silver. Flight even went out with four empty seats in F. Check out udustats.com

Yes this is probably one of the easiest upgrades in the system. Easily made it with a companion on a recent flight and I'm only silver. Flight even went out with four empty seats in F. Check out udustats.com


Good news, thanks for the reply!

So the unfortunate part about this is that upgrades on award tickets are for the credit card holder only! Meaning that if the OP were to do this, he could get upgraded and leave his new wife back in E/E+ -- not a great way to start your new married life! However, if she were to also get a United credit card (separate from yours), then it's possible that you two could both get upgraded that way.

I wouldn't count on this though. These credit card upgrades are processed after all other revenue tickets (for each elite level), which leaves you at the bottom of a long list (if I understand it correctly).

My wife and I just flew to Maui from Orlando via this LAX flight. We had 1st tickets both ways. I agree with everyone else that says its nothing special. I think the only benefit is that you wont be sitting next to anyone else, its just you and your wife. The food was nothing great and the "extra space" was very minimal. On the return trip our flight got cancelled (Hurricane) and we had to rebook on a flight the next day. United had no 1st or Business class seating available on any flights from OGG to LAX, so they put me in the exit row (8B & C). Honestly, it was better than the first class. The legroom was fantastic. The only downside to this was no underseat storage as we are at the bulkhead (door). The lady at the window complained a little of it being cold due to the door right there, but we did get blankets.

If I had to do it all over, I would choose one of these seats over first.

I ended up getting a 20,000 mile refund from United as well for the downgrade although after its all said and done, we got an extra day in Maui and better seats in my opinion.

When checking in at OGG we also got a notice the flight was overbooked and if our plans were flexible we could reschedule again and get a $250 voucher. Unfortunately, I had to get back to work, so we couldnt take advantage of that, but we really wanted to. Getting stuck in Maui sure is nice.:)

Been traveling less - but was pleasantly surprised on my last roundtrip to Las Vegas.

All upgrades cleared - but I've never missed a Hawaii - Mainland upgrade.

HNL-SFO was a 767-400 with business first service. Wow - what an improvement. The seat was awesome - huge legroom - the breakfast was swiss cheese omlet which was very good - or cereal. Left on time - service attentive. Really nice flight.

LAX-HNL - ok, was a bit worried here - was a 737-800 - but was pleasantly surprised. This was a Direct TV flight available for about 1 hour - then a few channels of movies - screen is widescreen and good qualitly. Dinner was penne pasta or short ribs - pretty good. Service was great. Seat very roomy - I'm a big guy - if not on a biz first flight I like the 737 option.

Vegas flights by the way all on time - all flights pre-departure drinks offered - and snacks given.

I've been disappointed with some threads saying don't upgrade to Hawaii if on a honeymoon - which ironically come from a lot of 1K's who always get upgraded and don't sit in the back of the bus - it is definitely worth the upgrade and try the 737.

I have a J ticket award and they placed me in F lax-hnl for a 5h50 flight. It's on the 757-200 ianyone had food bad experiences?

Late to the game, but I was in a similar situation.

Finished our 4th trip to Maui this year, 4th year in the row, leaving from the DC area. All the other years have been in coach. Had enough miles to spring for first class for this years trip, so we did it one way (going).

Wife loved it (I didn't mind too much either). It was not over the top special, but nice to have food, the crews we had were great, so we did feel pampered (mind you, compared to standard coach).

Any seat not in coach is an upgrade IMO. Felt like the vacation started once we got on the plane. Would I pay thousands of dollars out of pocket for it? No way. But using miles, yeah, why not. The only snag we had was on our SFO to OGG route. . . about an hour and a half after take off, plane had to turn back around back to SFO for slight mechanical issue... so we got to the island 5 hours later than planed, but we did get two first class meals out of the SFO to OGG segment.

They're your miles, so use them how you want. I know we enjoyed the first class upgrade for a change and will probably do it again in the future. The wife was very excited and happy, and in the end, that's what matters.

Late to the game.

For my honeymoon last year, we flew DCA-SEA-HNL on Alaska in F, overnight layover, then HNL-KOA on Hawaiian. Alaska is a bit touchy for first class -- you absolutely want row 1 or 2, because they only pack 8 of each of the two meal options, and you want a choice. (They also don't do special meals, which was most annoying.) We went on Alaska because it was the cheapest F seats.

So based on my experience, USE THE MILES TO GET FIRST CLASS ROUND TRIP FOR YOUR HONEYMOON!

Thanks to this thread, I now know about the nonstop IAD-HNL via B-767. And that gives me a target for the end of 2020: At current upgrade award prices, my target (allowing for increases in family and/or award prices) is to earn 250k miles on top of what I presently have in 8 years. But that's for another thread....

F or J is a must for a honeymoon. It should be an extravagent and special trip. In my view, if your in F or J, your vacation starts when you get on the plane on the outbound and ends when you disembark on the return.

We used CX F for our honeymoon and it was superb!

F or J is a must for a honeymoon. It should be an extravagent and special trip. In my view, if your in F or J, your vacation starts when you get on the plane on the outbound and ends when you disembark on the return.

We used CX F for our honeymoon and it was superb!

So the answer would be to fly a foreign carrier to another destination: the F service to Hawaiii is nothing special, and certainly not worth spending lots of miles for a Standard Award.

So the answer would be to fly a foreign carrier to another destination: the F service to Hawaiii is nothing special, and certainly not worth spending lots of miles for a Standard Award.

I agree with this in part but if they have their hearts set on Hawaii, I still would spring for F. That said, I wouldn't go to Hawaii. I would and I did go to Thailand (stops in HKG and PEK) for my honeymoon.

I agree with this in part but if they have their hearts set on Hawaii, I still would spring for F. That said, I wouldn't go to Hawaii. I would and I did go to Thailand (stops in HKG and PEK) for my honeymoon.

I really find it hard to believe most FTers would say yes to 160K each for the F experience. Even at 2cpm, that's $3200 in value gone. Surely F to Hawaii is not worth $3200 + taxes + lost mileage value?

I would go first class. Orlando-West Coast-Hawaii is a long, long trip and miserable in coach as far as I'm concerned. I might feel otherwise if it was just a West Coast-Hawaii leg, but with time changing and a layover and a honeymoon, I would definitely aim for first. Domestic first leaves much to be desired compared to international business or international first, but it is many times better than coach on long flight.

I read this trip report and was applalled by the service to Hawaii that this person had. I flew UA to Hawaii on their 767s, DC-10s, and 747s in all 3 classes of service since the 1990s up they stopped most widebody service from the West Coast and never experienced this kind of awful service.

This was a PMCO flight on a 757-300. I didn't realize that PMCO crews won't even play the halfway to Hawaii game.

Why does managment allow this kind of awful service? United used to be the airline of Hawaii from the mainland, but with PMCO service in full swing I doubt that will last.

http://upgrd.com/blogs/doublewidesfly/united-airline-lax-hnl-trip-report.html

Data point. No Halfway to Hawaii or Mai Tai's on IAH-HNL at the beginning of September.

Data point. No Halfway to Hawaii or Mai Tai's on IAH-HNL at the beginning of September.

I won the Lonely Plamet guide book Tuesday September 18th out of LAX. And had a Mai Tai. They stock the drinks in LAX, so they do occasionally run out of them on the return trip. And sometimes they neglect to stock the Mai Tais ( which need another bottle of rum for fortification) or the book. The pilot was even talking about a fuel consumption game eventually w/ a travel certificate as a prize. Service was no better/worse than six months ago. You do want to be in the front of the cabin if you want first choice of food. Last couple of flights to/from Maui, the back of 1st had choice of pasta or pasta. The pasta isn't that bad, but Americans tend to be carnivorous.

Hawaii is a low revenue route and most of the people in 1st are there on upgrades of some kind, so I'm not sure why everyone expects a-kissing service for what is (to United) a slightly better than coach revenue cabin.

I didn't realize that PMCO crews won't even play the halfway to Hawaii game. Oh, the humanity. :rolleyes:

Let's line up the other complaints:
- TSA sucks. Yeah, definitely UA's fault.
- Late catering so F had to wait to board. Happens some times.
- Stuck pushing back because of the narrow alleys at LAX. Happens on most airlines there from time to time.
- Some bits of the catering kit say UA and some say CO. Apparently that is enough to affect one's enjoyment of the flight.
- He ordered a special meal and didn't like it

Maybe the FA was having a bad day or maybe the FA really awful. Those are everywhere though rare IME. The rest of the complaints sound a lot like whining to me.

I read this trip report and was applalled by the service to Hawaii that this person had. I flew UA to Hawaii on their 767s, DC-10s, and 747s in all 3 classes of service since the 1990s up they stopped most widebody service from the West Coast and never experienced this kind of awful service.

This was a PMCO flight on a 757-300. I didn't realize that PMCO crews won't even play the halfway to Hawaii game.

Why does managment allow this kind of awful service? United used to be the airline of Hawaii from the mainland, but with PMCO service in full swing I doubt that will last.

http://upgrd.com/blogs/doublewidesfly/united-airline-lax-hnl-trip-report.html

Sounds like the person interacted with one bad flight attendant. Kind of hard to make sweeping generalizations about company wide changes based on that.

But I supposed this is FT - so generalize away!

deteriorating hawaii service, deteriorating domestic service, deteriorating customer service, deteriorating international service...ask any random UA flyer and everyone will have their own opinion. i read both of that guy's UA trip reports in full published at the link you referenced (IAH-SAN and LAX-HNL) and he sounds a bit whiny, to be honest.

every day i read this board i wonder how long it's going to be before the most vocal of us either a) come to terms with the fact that pmUA and pmCO are no more and none of us can do much of anything to change the current state of the company; or b) move on to different carriers and stop complaining about UA's overall 'deteriorating service'.

sorry for the rant, just tired of the same things being rehashed ad nauseum in 3 out of every 4 posts.

I won the Lonely Plamet guide book Tuesday September 18th out of LAX. And had a Mai Tai. They stock the drinks in LAX, so they do occasionally run out of them on the return trip. And sometimes they neglect to stock the Mai Tais ( which need another bottle of rum for fortification) or the book. The pilot was even talking about a fuel consumption game eventually w/ a travel certificate as a prize. Service was no better/worse than six months ago. You do want to be in the front of the cabin if you want first choice of food. Last couple of flights to/from Maui, the back of 1st had choice of pasta or pasta. The pasta isn't that bad, but Americans tend to be carnivorous.

Hawaii is a low revenue route and most of the people in 1st are there on upgrades of some kind, so I'm not sure why everyone expects a-kissing service for what is (to United) a slightly better than coach revenue cabin.

I agree, never understood why everyone expects the Hawaii flights to be so much better than any other flight of similar length...hey, you're going to Hawaii...be happy! :)

I read this trip report and was applalled by the service to Hawaii that this person had. I flew UA to Hawaii on their 767s, DC-10s, and 747s in all 3 classes of service since the 1990s up they stopped most widebody service from the West Coast and never experienced this kind of awful service.
http://upgrd.com/blogs/doublewidesfly/united-airline-lax-hnl-trip-report.html

They've stopped most widebody service to/from the west coast? Yes it is heavily lowered but I'd say it's about 50/50 wide and narrowbody. In November I'm flying HNL-SFO roundtrip widebody both ways (772 and 767). Later that month I'm doing HNL-LAX which is narrowbodies, 738 and 753. Yes, I'm not very excited about taking this route on a 738 but I had to take the redeye for scheduling reasons, and I also realize that this flight will be PMCO. Still, just to point it out west coast to Hawaii is still about half widebodies, but I do get your point.

In my mind the premiere airline these days for Hawaii is actually HA, and I tend to split my flying between the two. UA still makes sense for me at times because I spend a lot of time in Asia so the *A possibilities are very good. Admittedly, HA has a very crappy FF program as well though.

play the halfway to Hawaii game.

What is this?

I have seen it mentioned on FT quite a bit, but never seen it described. I haven't flown to HI on UA in years.

What is this?

I have seen it mentioned on FT quite a bit, but never seen it described. I haven't flown to HI on UA in years.

The Captain provides enough info that should allow you to calculate the time that the flight reaches the geographical midpoint between the mainland and Hawaii.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileage-plus-pre-merger/113264-halfway-hawaii-contest-merged-threads.html

I haven't flown UA to HI for about....3 years.....I would say it was deteriorating then from the previous years....

What is this?

I have seen it mentioned on FT quite a bit, but never seen it described. I haven't flown to HI on UA in years.

It's kind of a guessing game for 5 year olds :). I guess it was a cute little touch but certainly not worth complaining about when it's gone

I can't read that piece without thinking "Over-entitled elite". :mad:

Doesn't help that the column is titled "Your Shortcut to First Class Travel: Ugrd". Was this guy around back in the days of "The Speech" here on FT?

He was looking for trouble, and he found it. Hard to believe there wasn't a humorous way to defuse things. Sure, could have been a bad FA on a bad day. So you've got a challenge. Can you make her laugh? There's got to be some way to turn things around. Maybe not, but does it hurt to try?

I'm not apologizing for United. I'm apologizing for the attitude some have that, once they pay their $$$, everything normal and civil on the part of the passenger goes out the window. But I admit that it might not have mattered. But why not try? And if that doesn't work, then fine, write about it.

Oh, the humanity. :rolleyes:

Let's line up the other complaints:
- TSA sucks. Yeah, definitely UA's fault.
- Late catering so F had to wait to board. Happens some times.
- Stuck pushing back because of the narrow alleys at LAX. Happens on most airlines there from time to time.
- Some bits of the catering kit say UA and some say CO. Apparently that is enough to affect one's enjoyment of the flight.
- He ordered a special meal and didn't like it

Maybe the FA was having a bad day or maybe the FA really awful. Those are everyZwhere though rare IME. The rest of the complaints sound a lot like whining to me.

it's kind of like the perfect storm. A horrible F/A & a passenger like that should never mix

Data point. No Halfway to Hawaii or Mai Tai's on IAH-HNL at the beginning of September.

I just assume this is a minor service difference between sCO and sUA flights.

Certainly there are very clear differences between LAX-LHR and IAH-LHR. (The very least of which is the Continental-branded Oneida ramekins.)

It's kind of a guessing game for 5 year olds :). I guess it was a cute little touch but certainly not worth complaining about when it's gone

A five year old won't win the game and it IS a nice touch. Are you one of the people who will diss the game and then complain how ordinary UA has become when they don't do it any more? The cabin crew and a pilot actually have to do kore work to run it. You can't have it both ways.

A five year old won't win the game and it IS a nice touch. Are you one of the people who will diss the game and then complain how ordinary UA has become when they don't do it any more? The cabin crew and a pilot actually have to do kore work to run it. You can't have it both ways.

Actually, no. I'm not the kind of person that will "diss" the game & then complain about UA. I've always thought the game was a nice touch but not worth crying over if they don't do it. I don't fly AA to Hawaii occasionally and say "gee, I wish they had HALF WAY TO HAWAII on this flight. It is just a nice little touch & yes, it's a nice thing the pilots do but it is still a guessing game. Is there something I said in my first post that's not correct?

I agree, never understood why everyone expects the Hawaii flights to be so much better than any other flight of similar length...hey, you're going to Hawaii...be happy! :)

Because for decades, they were better.

Because for decades, they were better.Wonder if there have been changes in work scheduling that make the Hawaii runs less desireable for crew? Perhaps used to be that you could spend a couple days in Hawaii, but now have to do out & back same-day turns? Don't know, just askin'. How could there not be quite an effect on flight crew happiness? After all, as someone else said, you're going to Hawaii!

I won the Lonely Plamet guide book Tuesday September 18th out of LAX. And had a Mai Tai. They stock the drinks in LAX, so they do occasionally run out of them on the return trip. And sometimes they neglect to stock the Mai Tais ( which need another bottle of rum for fortification) or the book. The pilot was even talking about a fuel consumption game eventually w/ a travel certificate as a prize. Service was no better/worse than six months ago. You do want to be in the front of the cabin if you want first choice of food. Last couple of flights to/from Maui, the back of 1st had choice of pasta or pasta. The pasta isn't that bad, but Americans tend to be carnivorous.

Hawaii is a low revenue route and most of the people in 1st are there on upgrades of some kind, so I'm not sure why everyone expects a-kissing service for what is (to United) a slightly better than coach revenue cabin.

If you live in Hawaii you will learn that the fares are not low. Also, there are a lot of wealthy people who have second homes in the islands and have no problem paying full FC fares. Obviously you do not know very muchnabout this market.

Wonder if there have been changes in work scheduling that make the Hawaii runs less desireable for crew? Perhaps used to be that you could spend a couple days in Hawaii, but now have to do out & back same-day turns? Don't know, just askin'. How could there not be quite an effect on flight crew happiness? After all, as someone else said, you're going to Hawaii!

The only change has been from PMUA crews and equipment to PMCO crews and equipment. Their is a noticeable change in service, attitude and work ethic between the two with PMCO really lacking.

Why not J to DPS/HKT instead.. Hawaii is Hawaii.. Much better value using miles for biz to Asia..

The only change has been from PMUA crews and equipment to PMCO crews and equipment. Their is a noticeable change in service, attitude and work ethic between the two with PMCO really lacking.

Are you referring to the Hawaii market or in general? Either way such a blanket statement is quite prejudiced and ignorant. :td:

Sorry to hijack this a bit but I just found out that I got upgraded to First on 777-200 on a red eye from HNL to SFO. Based on what I have read here, I am considering downgrading if I can get two seats in coach, which I may be able to because the flight doesn't appear to be full. That is, do the seats in first really not recline anymore than a coach seat? I am small so can sleep on two seats and that is more important to me than free food or alcohol.

If you live in Hawaii you will learn that the fares are not low. Also, there are a lot of wealthy people who have second homes in the islands and have no problem paying full FC fares. Obviously you do not know very muchnabout this market.


This is a pretty blanket and generalized statement. I do live in Hawaii and there have in fact been some incredibly low fares on UA this fall to the west coast that I have been taking advantage of. As I mentioned in an earlier post I also split my flying with HA who will also produce incredibly low fares from time to time. Fares go up and they go down, that's a general rule of life for regular flyers and has nothing to do with living in Hawaii.

This is a pretty blanket and generalized statement. I do live in Hawaii and there have in fact been some incredibly low fares on UA this fall to the west coast that I have been taking advantage of. As I mentioned in an earlier post I also split my flying with HA who will also produce incredibly low fares from time to time. Fares go up and they go down, that's a general rule of life for regular flyers and has nothing to do with living in Hawaii.

$500 from NYC is VERY cheap & widely available. What I don't understand is that hotels are full. They have had one of their best summers in years. So if hotels are full, why the need for such cheap fares? Are people swimming to Hawaii? The people that are filling up these hotels need to get there somehow

If you live in Hawaii you will learn that the fares are not low. Also, there are a lot of wealthy people who have second homes in the islands and have no problem paying full FC fares. Obviously you do not know very muchnabout this market.

Fares are in fact low to Hawaii. Even full F fares are very cheap compared to flights of similar length, etc. $3300 r/t for an F tkt from NYC is cheap & that's a year round fare. The current sales are $450-$500 r/t from East coast and that is ridiculous


The only change has been from PMUA crews and equipment to PMCO crews and equipment. Their is a noticeable change in service, attitude and work ethic between the two with PMCO really lacking

This is what I've seen from the West Coast. On The pmCO long haul flights from IAH/EWR, the service is fine just like before the merger but these new pmCO routes from the West Coast are pitiful compared to the pmUA flights. These UA flights are staffed by many from the HNL base who like the route & are good w tourists. The new CO flights from the West Coast seem to be staffed w the same unhappy people you get from IAH-EWR. However, The catering & comfort level has gone way down accross the board on every UA flight to Hawaii now. They put the "C" back in cheap. How they justify taking away proper pillows & blankets in F on a 5000 mile trip is criminal .

I have a typical response in these "honeymoon" threads......
Save a F trip for a milestone anniversary.:p



My wife and I did C on our honeymoon to Tahiti, and I highly recommend splurging if you can. HOWEVER, once you introduce your wife to non-coach, be prepared to upgrade on every long flight from that point forward!

$500 from NYC is VERY cheap & widely available. What I don't understand is that hotels are full. They have had one of their best summers in years. So if hotels are full, why the need for such cheap fares? Are people swimming to Hawaii? The people that are filling up these hotels need to get there somehow

After a couple years of capacity cuts, particularly with Aloha going out of business, capacity in the Hawaii market is on the rise. UA and HA added daily long-haul flights to the east coast. AS is growing their presence on the west coast. Other carriers are playing with frequencies, too. That's a lot of seats to sell.

After a couple years of capacity cuts, particularly with Aloha going out of business, capacity in the Hawaii market is on the rise. UA and HA added daily long-haul flights to the east coast. AS is growing their presence on the west coast. Other carriers are playing with frequencies, too. That's a lot of seats to sell.

If there are more seat than hotel rooms something is very wrong

$500 from NYC is VERY cheap & widely available. What I don't understand is that hotels are full. They have had one of their best summers in years. So if hotels are full, why the need for such cheap fares? Are people swimming to Hawaii? The people that are filling up these hotels need to get there somehow

Hawaii has more airports then just HNL and you might get a cheap fare there but you still have to get to the other islands.

Also, HI is an international tourist market with planes coming from Asia, NZ, Australia and other countries besides the mainland. It is just not tourists from the US that keep the hotels full.

Hawaii has more airports then just HNL and you might get a cheap fare there but you still have to get to the other islands.

Also, HI is an international tourist market with planes coming from Asia, NZ, Australia and other countries besides the mainland. It is just not tourists from the US that keep the hotels full.

I understand that. But the Japanese alone can't fill all these hotels. There are a TON of flights from Japan every day. This accounts for a huge percentage if tourists as do people from the mainland. However, the odd flights from Australia, NZ, & Taiwan don't make a dent. The fares from the mainland are VERY cheap & the flights from JApan are also very cheap. These 2 origins make up 95% of the tourists in Hawaii. A room in a 5 star hotel for ONE night costs the same as the total airfare. There are not many markets where that is true

If there are more seat than hotel rooms something is very wrong
Though this observation is somewhat simplistic, it is true that the total tourist "lift" to Hawaii has to be supported by available hotel rooms in Hawaii.

Assuming that the business market is static, the only other outlet is vacationers from the islands traveling to the mainland.

I have also observed that for the first half of the year, fares were very high to/from Hawaii, historically speaking.

So I'd say this could either be a "high fares leading to low loads, then additional capacity comes in with UA's IAD-HNL and HA's JFK-HNL leading to a glut" or perhaps a brilliant yield boosting strategy of high fares for folks who really have to book from 5-11 months out leading to low loads and fare sales 2-4 months out.

OTOH, maybe UA is just reaping the rewards of it's cuts in quality of service to Hawaii from the mainland? Are people booking away because of the crappy food in F and having to buy food in Y?

First of all congrats on your upcoming marriage and honeymoon.

I was on the OGG-LAX flight and the desert looked smallish and the cookies looked small.I peeked in as I was using the forward lav on the 757. The meal selections were from Trader Vics and the FAs were pouring the Mai Tais from the Trader Vic's Mai Tai mix you can buy at the Hawaiian ABC store for $8 on the island. I said to the FA I know your secrete and she winked at me and said don't tell the passengers in FC but you can make a better Mai Tai with the mix on the island(:

If you wanted a more memorable and romantic meal go to Trader Vics in Palo Alto or San Francisco.

I have had a Trader Vics meal on UA with Mai Tai in First Class back in 2008 and let me say there is no way the FA can even get those meals as good as you can at Trader Vics. Those Mai Tais are not like at Trader Vics. I don't care if I'm a famous chef or own a famous restaurant chain and United claims" We proudly serve Trader Vics".

How long are those meals sitting at the catering department. Do we really know if the caterers were following the menu to the same point as when you dine at the restaurant?

I had a great lamb at Roy's in Hawaii and while yes the First Class meals are better than Coach its not the same as going to a fancy restaurant. Use your miles to get dining certificates and use it at a fancy restaurant you normally don't go to at home.

While the seats were larger I would upgrade if I had the miles and was ready to down more than one watered down Mai Tai. I'm not doing it for the meal as I know I can get better in Hawaii. Its a toss up. I want a larger seat and the alcohol is an added bonus a hot meal ok fine but I know its not the same quality as Trader Vics.

If you really wanted to make your fiance happy get a large suite at a nice hotel like the Ritz Kapalua. Rent a Mustang and eat at good restaurants like Roy's.

Shop at some of the nicest shops like Tommy Bahamas.

If you really think you fiance would like F then do it. But I would do it going to Hawaii one way if you want to save your miles. Even mention to the Gate Agent that its your honeymoon and you may even get an upgrade but its not guaranteed.

Wonder if there have been changes in work scheduling that make the Hawaii runs less desireable for crew? Perhaps used to be that you could spend a couple days in Hawaii, but now have to do out & back same-day turns? Don't know, just askin'. How could there not be quite an effect on flight crew happiness? After all, as someone else said, you're going to Hawaii!

That is likely the case - UA used to own a crew hotel in Waikiki, but CO sold it. I remember often having the same crews on SFO/HNL Friday AM and HNL/SFO Sunday red-eye home. I doubt that is the same turn anymore, nor has been for some time.

I understand that. But the Japanese alone can't fill all these hotels. There are a TON of flights from Japan every day. This accounts for a huge percentage if tourists as do people from the mainland. However, the odd flights from Australia, NZ, & Taiwan don't make a dent. The fares from the mainland are VERY cheap & the flights from JApan are also very cheap. These 2 origins make up 95% of the tourists in Hawaii. A room in a 5 star hotel for ONE night costs the same as the total airfare. There are not many markets where that is true

Living in Hawaii I would not consider flights cheap compared to mainland flights. Most of the flyers I know here who live on the other islands besides Oahu do not consider fares CHEAP. Also, you left out another demographic which are Canadian tourist.

Some facts about Hawaii tourism this year to date.

Hawaii tourist arrivals and spending continue to soar in July

STAR-ADVERTISER ARCHIVE
Visitor arrivals and spending continued to increase through July.

Hawaii's visitor industry continued to heat up in July with arrivals and spending gains contributing to what continues to be one of the hottest summers ever.

Total visitor spending in July rose by 17.8 percent to $1.28 billion, according to statistics released today by the Hawaii Tourism Authority. The $193.8 million gain from the same period in 2011 helped push spending during the first seven months of the year to $8.4 billion, an increase of 20.8 percent.

Higher daily spending and 7.8 percent growth in total arrivals were behind the increase. In July, the state welcomed 720,355 visitors. During the first seven months, arrivals rose 9.8 percent to 4,652,621 visitors.

Arrivals from Hawaii's top U.S. West market grew for the ninth consecutive month. Arrivals from this core market were up 3.4 percent from July 2011 to 299,072 visitors. Likewise, U.S. West spending grew by 10.3 percent to $436.7 million.

The number of visitors from the U.S. East, Hawaii's second-largest visitor market, remained flat. (Why would they remain flat if fares were so CHEAP?) However, increased daily spending boosted U.S. East total visitor expenditures by 15.1 percent to $347.8 million.

Japanese arrivals, the state's largest international market, grew 21.5 percent to 135,764 visitors. Spending by these visitors rose 31.6 percent to $248.8 million.

Canadian arrivals, considered to be one of Hawaii's more mature international markets, were flat in July. Likewise, spending only grew by 1.8 percent to $46.3 million.

Arrivals from all other markets, which include South Korea, China and Taiwan, grew by 24.6 percent to 93,086. Spending by these visitors also grew 29.9 percent to $203.4 million.

Maybe we will get cheap airfares when WN starts flying here. :)

Though this observation is somewhat simplistic, it is true that the total tourist "lift" to Hawaii has to be supported by available hotel rooms in Hawaii.

Assuming that the business market is static, the only other outlet is vacationers from the islands traveling to the mainland.

I have also observed that for the first half of the year, fares were very high to/from Hawaii, historically speaking.

So I'd say this could either be a "high fares leading to low loads, then additional capacity comes in with UA's IAD-HNL and HA's JFK-HNL leading to a glut" or perhaps a brilliant yield boosting strategy of high fares for folks who really have to book from 5-11 months out leading to low loads and fare sales 2-4 months out.

OTOH, maybe UA is just reaping the rewards of it's cuts in quality of service to Hawaii from the mainland? Are people booking away because of the crappy food in F and having to buy food in Y?

I know myself and other friends who live here are booking away from COdbaUA. The wide bodies are being taken off the routes with PMUA crews. They are being replaced with smaller single aisle planes and PMCO crews. Huge difference in equipment, service and attitude.