Travel Technology - "Prepaid Phones are for Poor People"

I have been FREE of cell phone company plans for years, and have no intention of EVER going back :D Shocking to some, but I buy the phone outright, I have an HTC Inspire 4G, and put in whatever SIM card I need where ever I go and have much lower monthly bills. I am currently with Straight Talk when in the USA for $45/month (less than $48 with taxes) unlimited/unlimited/unlimited (I have heard they give you a warning at 2GB but I have had no problem coming close to that limit as I use wifi most of the time) and am happy as a clam, and I have had 4G almost all the time. If I don't like ST I can throw their SIM in the trash and go with someone else.

So, to get to my point. I was shopping with my Aunt tonight at one of the little BB stores in the mall for her a new phone. She is an older lady and not up on technology and she asks me to go with her to help her pick out a phone. She currently has a very old blackberry on Sprint and says she likes Sprint OK.

So, I start explaining to her that she might want to consider buying a GSM phone outright and going with a prepaid plan. We are looking at the Galaxy S III which is $199 on a 2 year plan or $599 without a plan. The sales guy comes up and starts a sales pitch about the latest $99.99 plan (probably $120 with taxes) and when I explain to him that she is considering buying the phone without a contract he says "prepaid phones are for poor people and people with bad credit" I just stand there dumbfounded. I can't believe the rude remark, and I can't believe that he actually works in the mobile phone business and believes this! For me, buying a phone on contract makes little financial sense, but is this the way most people actually look at prepaid phones?

Anyway, after a few minutes of listening to his sales pitch "he is the expert ya know" she ends up buying the $199 Galaxy and locking herself into a $99.99 a month plan for the next 24 months.

Your sales person is on commission. You should have had a good comeback line.

Actually the guy made a point of telling us the sales people from best buy are not on commision, but maybe he was just blowing smoke.....

I explain to him that she is considering buying the phone without a contract he says "prepaid phones are for poor people and people with bad credit" I just stand there dumbfounded.

That describes me :) I've had prepaid for about 6 years now, not needing many cell phone minutes each month. Sounds like your grandmother might meet the same profile. My current T-Mobile prepaid plan is $30 a month with 100 minutes per month and unlimited text/data. The Samsung smart phone I bought at Walmart was $189 and they even had cheaper models. The prior T-Mobile plan I had was $100 for 1000 minutes a year. Maybe that would be more to her liking if all she needs is talk time.

Hope you're able to get her out of that contract tomorrow.

I'm living in Germany, but for me a long-term contract has never made sense. So for years now I've been using a simple phone that can do nothing but SMS and call other phones. I've got that phone in a package with a 15€ credit for less than 10€.

I'm recharging the card about once or twice a year with 10 or 15€, while even the cheapest plans come at a charge of 20€ per month.

Luckily for the cell phone business I'm not their typical user :D

HTB.

That describes me :) I've had prepaid for about 6 years now, not needing many cell phone minutes each month. Sounds like your grandmother might meet the same profile. My current T-Mobile prepaid plan is $30 a month with 100 minutes per month and unlimited text/data. The Samsung smart phone I bought at Walmart was $189 and they even had cheaper models. The prior T-Mobile plan I had was $100 for 1000 minutes a year. Maybe that would be more to her liking if all she needs is talk.I was a longtime postpaid Cingular / AT&T customer who sat down about six years ago and figured out that I was throwing away (not using) 3/4 of my monthly minutes. So in 2006, I switched to prepaid and also bought my first factory-unlocked phone from Amazon.com, This allows me to pay only for what I use, to freely and easily switch SIMs when traveling internationally, and most importantly to buy the hardware I want, free and clear of any ridiculous contractual obligation. I can upgrade phones on MY schedule,

For my mother, we got her a prepaid on T-MO for emergency use - we load $100 to it once a year (1000 minutes) and that gets her by.

http://www.pagepluscellular.com/Plans.aspx

This company sells Verizon minutes very cheaply.

Actually the guy made a point of telling us the sales people from best buy are not on commision, but maybe he was just blowing smoke.....No doubt the BB salesguy was truthful in that BB pays him a flat salary, but I'd bet anything that the salespeople qualify fo "spiffs" or bonus programs from the phone companies (not to mention commissions for any extended warranties they dupe customers into sell.

In France prepaid phones with sim cards are usually not used by "poor" people but more by criminals, drug dealers who love the anonymity :)

But my mom's a <redacted>, and she just won't pay more money than she has to for my phone service. It's not that she doesn't have enough money. She just doesn't want to spend an unnecessary amount on my phone bill.

I buy my phone outright too - I never make calls (seriously, I haven't made any outgoing calls at all via my mobile this year), and text only a handful of times per week. I just want a phone as a pocket-sized Twitter and Foursquare machine. I replace my phone every few years, and I hate getting grilled about why I don't want unlimited minutes, etc. One guy in a T-Mobile shop actually said "You don't make calls? What, don't you have any friends?"

I like to support bricks and mortar retail because I'm impatient and want to walk in to a shop and own whatever I'm after same day, but phone stores make the buying experience so unpleasant that I've started buying via eBay instead.

So, to get to my point. I was shopping with my Aunt tonight at one of the little BB stores in the mall for her a new phone. She is an older lady and not up on technology and she asks me to go with her to help her pick out a phone. She currently has a very old blackberry on Sprint and says she likes Sprint OK.

So, I start explaining to her that she might want to consider buying a GSM phone outright and going with a prepaid plan. We are looking at the Galaxy S III which is $199 on a 2 year plan or $599 without a plan. The sales guy comes up and starts a sales pitch about the latest $99.99 plan (probably $120 with taxes) and when I explain to him that she is considering buying the phone without a contract he says "prepaid phones are for poor people and people with bad credit" I just stand there dumbfounded. I can't believe the rude remark, and I can't believe that he actually works in the mobile phone business and believes this! For me, buying a phone on contract makes little financial sense, but is this the way most people actually look at prepaid phones?

Anyway, after a few minutes of listening to his sales pitch "he is the expert ya know" she ends up buying the $199 Galaxy and locking herself into a $99.99 a month plan for the next 24 months.

I have never had a contract for a mobile (cell) phone I've only ever had pre paid I use my phone quite rarely and as such I would be throwing money away by getting a contract. I do get a load of incoming calls and as it's calling party pays in this country (UK) those cost me nothing. I've also got a prepaid BlackBerry that costs me £3.33 a month for 50MB of data and I've never gone over the limit on that. Both the BlackBerry and the regular phone were bought sim free and not tied to any network. I do have a phone that is tied to a network (Three) which cost only £19.99 and allows me free Skype as there are no data charges. As such for calling friends across the world it has saved me the cost of the phone many times over, with the added benefit of free calls to freephone numbers in the USA from the UK.

I would not only have been insulted by what he said, I would have asked asked to speak to the manager and asked for an explanation of the sales assistants comments. Years ago in a BestBuy in California I was buying something and was paying with my UK soccer club branded Mastercard and had some funny looks and a supervisor being called - despite the transaction going through fine. Girl behind me has a picture of kittens on her card and has no problems at all paying with that :confused:

But my mom's a <redacted>, and she just won't pay more money than she has to for my phone service. It's not that she doesn't have enough money. She just doesn't want to spend an unnecessary amount on my phone bill.

Welcome to FT.

My experience regarding the origins of that slur is that if it ever applied, it applied two generations ago when they were immigrants (or children of immigrants) who came from a haggling culture. It was applied to the fact that immigrant culture were particularly tough in negotiating.

I also think that your salesperson was coming from that generation. Prepaids were originally bad deals and/or inferior service. That is no longer the case. I have both contract and non-contract devices. The only time I want to be on contract is where I'm trying to stay on a grandfathered plan.

I am on T-Mobile USA prepaid for the last 5 years , I only use up the 1000 minutes every 6 months or so,

The salesman was doing his job and it worked as he got a sale !

soarer

I calculated if I buy a new, unlocked phone every year and pay for two years of Straight Talk service, I'd save about $500 compared to an AT&T contract + a subsidized phone every two years. Seems to me this prepaid customer will be $500 richer than the person on the contract (oh, and my FICO score is about 800).

A one year contract made sense to me, but 2 years never did. When I get one, the phone is out of date after one year, or it's broken and needs replacing. I've been able to stretch out the last few phones for two years, but when this contract ends, I'm switching to no contract.

My current T-Mobile prepaid plan is $30 a month with 100 minutes per month and unlimited text/data. The Samsung smart phone I bought at Walmart was $189 and they even had cheaper models.I think we have the same plan and phone.

If you don't need crazy amounts of minutes, and can put up with T-Mobile's coverage, it's the best deal out there, by far.

In general, he's right. That's what the market use to be, criminals, and those who could not get a contract. But I think the public is starting to wake up and realize there's no need to pay $100 or more a month when you can get it for half price, and not be locked in for years. As a story earlier in the month said

The second-quarter figures reveal that while contract phone sales are flatter than month-old soda, those for pre-paid handsets have shot up by 91 percent compared to the same quarter last year. The upswing is credited to last year's flagship handsets falling down the price ladder, snaring lower-income customers who were unable to afford to be early adopters

I've been a mix for years, my voice is prepaid, my dats is not, and I'm perfectly happy that way right now. And I'm not poor, and have credit to add four more lines on to the Data provider if I wanted to.

Prepaids have come a long way over the years. They use to be horrid deals. Now they are better deals than contract plans if the more limited roaming that still is an issue. This is more true on TMobile and it's MVNOs than on things like Straight Talk which at least uses ATT.

"Anyway, after a few minutes of listening to his sales pitch "he is the expert ya know" she ends up buying the $199 Galaxy and locking herself into a $99.99 a month plan for the next 24 months."

<sigh> Why did you even go with her when the "magic" of the sales droid convinced her that she needed to spend $100 per month?

Prepaid at one time might have been considered the haven of people with no credit or poor people, but many people now are going with prepaid. People fall into the trap with "I'm only spending $200 for a phone" neglecting to figure that over the course of their two year commitment they'll be spending thousands of dollars. There are lots of prepaid plans with all you can eat minutes, texts and some even with data and those plans are only $40 or $50. Spending $100 per month when you don't need to is foolish.

A one year contract made sense to me, but 2 years never did. When I get one, the phone is out of date after one year, or it's broken and needs replacing. I've been able to stretch out the last few phones for two years, but when this contract ends, I'm switching to no contract.

You'd really like the plans in Canada then! Their plans are three year terms!

And domestic long distance is extra on most plans.

And domestic long distance is extra on most plans.

Really? Here in the USA almost everyone gives free long distance, at least, I think...
:confused:

http://www.pagepluscellular.com/Plans.aspx

This company sells Verizon minutes very cheaply.

Thanks much for posting this (-:

And domestic long distance is extra on most plans.What?

There's no such thing as long distance on any cell phone plan, and it has been that way for at least 10 years.

Been on prepaid since 2003, buying my phone outright (CDMI) from Telus up here. Twenty cents a minute calls and easy topups with minutes carried over. Only shortcoming was no roaming in the U.S.

Bought an unlocked quadband a few years ago, and the SIM's get me inexpensive prepaid service (for Canada anyway), with the freedom to get a country's simcard anywhere I travel, for low rates. I remember that when I was going to get that first cellphone in '03, most friends and coworkers I talked to said they weren't happy being tied to long contracts, which prompted me to go for the prepaid option.

Since I don't need the phones for data, only voice, there's definately no need for a contract service for me.

bj-21.

I know a lot of people who are on pre paid and are perfectly happy with it. Personally, I'm on a plan that gives me enough minutes, data and texts and a network subsidy on the phone that gives me a TCO below that of pre paid. That's only because I like the latest/greatest phone though (mines the one with S3 written on it).

In the UK market, there are some remarkable value propositions in pre pay (thinking the likes of the Orange San Francisco 2 (http://shop.orange.co.uk/mobile-phones/san-francisco-II-from-orange-in-black), for example) that give users a step up into full smart phone functionality that would have been unthinkable a couple of years back.

The industries attitude towards prepaid has been in flux the last couple of years for a number of reasons. First and foremost they are fed up with highly subsidized data devices while a prepaid account typically has a minimal or no device subsidy. The second issue is credit risk. The prevailing attitude has been that it was worth the risk of extending post-paid service to individuals with dubious credit because it was worth the shot at making them high-ARPU customers. But the risk is also doubled because if the customer doesn't pay up you are also out the device subsidy.

Where credit risk is concerned they seem to have slid into a comfortable compromise by way of resellers, primarily América Móvil, parent company of Tracfone. The incumbents preserve their brand equity and can be perceived to be holding the line on pricing. If the reseller wishes to subsidize a device that is their business and the supply chain and customer service costs supporting the low-value customers are offloaded to the reseller as well. The credit risk is all but eliminated since one can be reasonably confident Carlos Slim pays his bills.

And for the record América Móvil controls half a dozen US based prepaid brands and has more subscribers than Nextel did at their peak.

What?

There's no such thing as long distance on any cell phone plan, and it has been that way for at least 10 years.

I was talking about Canada on that single post. The guy I was responding to said Canadian cell phone plans were three year contracts. I then responded and they charge extra for domestic long distance. I was not taking about the US and should have made that clearer.

That was an awful comment by the sales guy.

In any case, I have had post-paid plans with T-Mobile (family plan) for about 8+ years now. I'm looking to switch out since T-Mobile still doesn't have my iPhone, and my old jailbroken iPhone is in need of an upgrade.

My parents don't use a lot of whenever minutes, so a pre-paid option for them probably would yield some great savings. However, they use a lot of Mobile-to-Mobile (calling the kids and other relatives), so that would eat up minutes. That's the one key reason I haven't made the switch just yet.

But other than that, the prepaid market looks appealing with no extra surcharges and other whatever telecommunication fees the companies tack on to my bills.

With my inlaws, I face the same psycholgoical issue. They use between them 200 minutes a month, but that includes Mobile to Mobile and MyFavs. If I told them they had 2000 minutes a month, but no free weekends, Favs, or Mobile to MObile, they would talk less because "they might need those minutes" and wouldn't want to go over.

That was an awful comment by the sales guy.


Not awful from the sales guy's perspective. He made the expensive sale and got his commission!

This is still during the return period, I'd demand she return that phone right now!!!

This is still during the return period, I'd demand she return that phone right now!!!
+1

I switched from a 3-phone family plan to 3 individual prepaid plans. Mine is a monthly plan about $15 less than the T-Mo contract plan, which made up for the fact that I had to pay for an unsubsidized smartphone. My parents are on PAYG minutes plans, my dad uses his full 1150 minutes for $100 about every 11 months, and my mom takes about 3 years to use hers so we pay the $10 every 12 months to extend the minutes.

While I do suffer from TMo's smaller footprint for prepaid roaming (including oddly enough a stretch of I-94 in Michigan, I make up for that by paying $15 about three times a year to load up a Verizon PAYG phone - the $15 gives me 7 days worth of unlimited calls in areas where my TMo phone is lacking.

Another prepaid user here. I enjoy the freedom of changing service providers should a better offer come along (although I've been with my current provider for as long as I remember and am generally pretty happy with the plan they offer.... $50 gives me unlimited calls within Australia, Unlimited texts within Australia and 3GB of Data all valid for a month. I can then add on international calling packs (which for some reason cost a whole lot more on postpaid!) that give me 5c/min calls to US/Canada, Hong Kong, India and four other countries which nicely covers my international calling needs.

I have been FREE of cell phone company plans for years, and have no intention of EVER going back :D Shocking to some, but I buy the phone outright, I have an HTC Inspire 4G, and put in whatever SIM card I need where ever I go and have much lower monthly bills. I am currently with Straight Talk when in the USA for $45/month (less than $48 with taxes) unlimited/unlimited/unlimited (I have heard they give you a warning at 2GB but I have had no problem coming close to that limit as I use wifi most of the time) and am happy as a clam, and I have had 4G almost all the time. If I don't like ST I can throw their SIM in the trash and go with someone else.

So, to get to my point. I was shopping with my Aunt tonight at one of the little BB stores in the mall for her a new phone. She is an older lady and not up on technology and she asks me to go with her to help her pick out a phone. She currently has a very old blackberry on Sprint and says she likes Sprint OK.

So, I start explaining to her that she might want to consider buying a GSM phone outright and going with a prepaid plan. We are looking at the Galaxy S III which is $199 on a 2 year plan or $599 without a plan. The sales guy comes up and starts a sales pitch about the latest $99.99 plan (probably $120 with taxes) and when I explain to him that she is considering buying the phone without a contract he says "prepaid phones are for poor people and people with bad credit" I just stand there dumbfounded. I can't believe the rude remark, and I can't believe that he actually works in the mobile phone business and believes this! For me, buying a phone on contract makes little financial sense, but is this the way most people actually look at prepaid phones?

Anyway, after a few minutes of listening to his sales pitch "he is the expert ya know" she ends up buying the $199 Galaxy and locking herself into a $99.99 a month plan for the next 24 months.
============================
Do you think it was more of the remark that she retained as validating? Who doesn't want to avoid being thought of as "poor"?

Hope he doesn't discover making that remark is a way to increase his sales!

...I have an HTC Inspire 4G, and put in whatever SIM card I need where ever I go and have much lower monthly bills. I am currently with Straight Talk when in the USA for $45/month (less than $48 with taxes) unlimited/unlimited/unlimited (I have heard they give you a warning at 2GB but I have had no problem coming close to that limit as I use wifi most of the time) and am happy as a clam, and I have had 4G almost all the time. ...

Question: are you on the ATT side or TMO side with Straight Talk? I thought 4G was blocked on ST and you could only get 3G services from their partner carriers.

Tmobile has really bad coverage here in my area. You are on edge most of the time.

Straight talk - I am on AT&T side and get HSPA+ which is 4G, correct?

I just ran a speed test and got:
download 1795kbps
upload 1178kbps

*********
wanted to add: I brought my unlocked phone and just bought a SIM card from Straight talk.

Tmobile has really bad coverage here in my area. You are on edge most of the time.

Straight talk - I am on AT&T side and get HSPA+ which is 4G, correct?

I just ran a speed test and got:
download 1795kbps
upload 1178kbps


that is tmobile 4g :D but not really, it is 3.5g at most.
HSDPA and HSPA+ are still technically 3g solutions.

that is tmobile 4g :D but not really, it is 3.5g at most.
HSDPA and HSPA+ are still technically 3g solutions.

Its says H+ which I assumed meant HSPA+ I thought that was 4G, but perhaps I am mistaken, not the first or last time :D Anyway, I am perfectly happy with the speed I get, whether it is 3G or 4G...

I know for sure I have an AT&T SIM cause when I slip in my friends ST t-mobile SIM into my phone I have EDGE speed and it is so SLOOOWWW....

Its says H+ which I assumed meant HSPA+ I thought that was 4G, but perhaps I am mistaken, not the first or last time :D Anyway, I am perfectly happy with the speed I get, whether it is 3G or 4G...

I know for sure I have an AT&T SIM cause when I slip in my friends ST t-mobile SIM into my phone I have EDGE speed and it is so SLOOOWWW....

edge is horrible, tmobile only has higher speeds on the 1700mhz band which is only on select phones, even normal high end international phones don't support it.

EDGE is like a 28.8 modem in a broadband world.

I ditch'd all of them and went VoIP over WiFi on an iPod Touch. $5.38/month for 5,000
minutes. Granted, it ain't a cellphone. But it is good enough for me.

Former: AT&T, Verizon & Sprint customer/sucker.

I ditch'd all of them and went VoIP over WiFi on an iPod Touch. $6.35/month for 5,000
minutes. Granted, it ain't a cellphone. But it is good enough for me.

Former: AT&T, Verizon & Sprint customer/sucker.

What am I missing?

Why pay that much for Voip? Couldn't you just use Google Voice?

Also, what do you do when you don't have wifi? I think the main reason for me to have a mobile phone is to have voice/data when i DON'T have wifi available!

What am I missing?

Why pay that much for Voip? Couldn't you just use Google Voice?

Also, what do you do when you don't have wifi? I think the main reason for me to have a mobile phone is to have voice/data when i DON'T have wifi available!

true, republic wireless isn't a bad option for a middle ground though!

> Why pay that much for Voip? Couldn't you just use Google Voice?

Google Voice is looking like it'll be fee, not free, after 2012.

VoIP via Google Voice didn't exist at the time I signed-up with my VoIP provider. Also;
my existing $5.38/month contract provides a TA with 2 POTS lines (for the in-home PBX).

> Also, what do you do when you don't have wifi?

I wait. <g> I'm seldom more than 10 mins away from WiFi. Or; my employer provides
a VZW 4G MiFi. I've used it for VoIP a few times.

Why would you think GV will be for a fee after 2012? I seriously doubt that this will happen. Each year they say free thru 2011 then 2012 and I fully expect it to be free thru 2013 next year. At least that is my hope since I ported my phone number over to them!!

============================
Do you think it was more of the remark that she retained as validating? Who doesn't want to avoid being thought of as "poor"?

Hope he doesn't discover making that remark is a way to increase his sales!

Sadly I ruined the day/year of an Apple employee in London a fair few months ago as he was trying to sell someone a new iPad. He was doing the sales spiel about how the new iPad was amongst other things 4G and I told him that unless the customer was going to use it in the USA, in which case the lovely contract he was offering would be useless, then 4G wouldn't work. So he asks me to back this up and I did so (we're using different frequencies for 4G) on the web, whereupon he gasped and said that he'd been using 4G as a big plank in his sales patter. I suggested that he might be okay as by the time 4G was available in the UK most people hopefully wouldn't remember what he said but probably not a good idea to continue talking about the benefits of 4G. Apple have subsequently been told not to use the 4G tag (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/may/02/asa-forces-apple-withdraw-claims-ipad-4g) when talking about the latest iPad.

Needless to say the customers went with the same generation iPad model but bought a wifi only one.

A little more about pre-paid phones.

I (and my wife) use pre-paid phones. However, the choices from the carriers are horrible and a rip-off.

What's the secret? Craigslist. Tons of people renew their plans to get a shiny toy free (or close to it) then turn around and sell it on CL for a profit. Seller and buyer are happy. I then turn around and sell for either a slight profit (yes, I've done it), wash, or slight loss when I feel it's time to update again.

For the newest of the new, you might get a slight discount. For a pretty new model, you score great discounts (from what the "posted" full price is at a store).

Our pre-paid phones are a lot newer and faster than 95% of the population out there.

Many of the phones on Craig's List are stolen and as the US is rolling out a blacklist, that should be a concern. (If ethics weren't already a concern).

Just be cautious on how you buy it. If it comes with full box, manuals, etc, etc, it's probably good. It's also better to buy this way for re-sale value.

If it's phone only and not even a charger, yeah, it's probably stolen. I don't touch those.

Many of the phones on Craig's List are stolen and as the US is rolling out a blacklist, that should be a concern. (If ethics weren't already a concern).

The blacklist in the UK works reasonably well but some very high end stolen phones are just shipped abroad now not resold in the UK.

Why would you think GV will be for a fee after 2012? I seriously doubt that this will happen. Each year they say free thru 2011 then 2012 and I fully expect it to be free thru 2013 next year. At least that is my hope since I ported my phone number over to them!!


It is only free for domestic, I pay them over $100 a year in international that I'd not b spending otherwise. (why would I pay thousands a year in international calls?)

I meant for domestic of course. I've averaged a couple hundred dollars a year with them for international calls too... When in the USA I call to Nicaragua a lot at 22 cents per minute to mobile phones which is a cheap as it gets for good quality calls. There are a couple companies which offer a few cents cheaper but the quality is HORRIBLE for the most part. I always go back to GV.:)

~800 credit rating here, prepaid only. I used to have the usual contract type provided by my employer (who didn't mind reasonable personal use of it so I had no reason to get my own), when they fell apart and I had to get my own I went with the T-mobile prepaid and it's ideal for me. It doesn't get a lot of use, the minutes actually keep accumulating.

Some people have mentioned being able to extend it for a year for $10 but they've never offered that to me. Even at $100/yr it's still cheaper than any plan.

T-mobile prepaid and it's ideal for me. It doesn't get a lot of use, the minutes actually keep accumulating.

Some people have mentioned being able to extend it for a year for $10 but they've never offered that to me. Even at $100/yr it's still cheaper than any plan.

Once you hit gold rewards (the $100 level) any refill will extend you for another year. So no matter how much you add in a refill, the expiration date should change to a year from when you add it.

You pay more per minute if you do lower refill amounts, but for many that's fine.

there is no required annual spend, once you hit the $100 you have it as long as you keep your account current.

What is Gold Rewards status?
With Gold Rewards status, you automatically receive 15% more minutes for free, and any unused minutes won’t expire for a full year!

How do I qualify for Gold Rewards status?
To qualify, spend just $100 (in any combination of $10, $25, $50, or $100) in T-Mobile refills for your Prepaid phone.

When will I get my bonus minutes?
Gold Rewards minutes are received on the NEXT refill card you redeem after you have officially qualified. More specifically, you will receive bonus minutes on the refill card redeemed after the one that carries you over the $100 refill mark.

Can I ever lose my Gold Rewards status?
Yes. To maintain your Gold Rewards status, you must keep your Prepaid account active. Activating a new line of service will result in the loss of your Gold Rewards status.

> I fully expect it to be free thru 2013 next year. At least
> that is my hope since I ported my phone number over to
> them!!

I'm glad that "hope" works for you. For me, not so much.

Then there is the matter of "Google." I find their personal
privacy statement/policies insufficient. But that's just me.
Nothing wrong with your decision, for you.

Prepaid is for poor people? Umm, no. Contracts are for poor people.

Why would I want to get screwed into a contract for 2 or more years and overpay for my handset when I can buy it free and clear and change carriers on a whim?

Anyhow, my Galaxy Nexus wasn't available from any of the carriers and is only $349 on Google. It's very likely my most bestus friend right now (Wife and dog excepted...).

Once you hit gold rewards (the $100 level) any refill will extend you for another year. So no matter how much you add in a refill, the expiration date should change to a year from when you add it.

You pay more per minute if you do lower refill amounts, but for many that's fine.

there is no required annual spend, once you hit the $100 you have it as long as you keep your account current.

What is Gold Rewards status?
With Gold Rewards status, you automatically receive 15% more minutes for free, and any unused minutes won’t expire for a full year!

How do I qualify for Gold Rewards status?
To qualify, spend just $100 (in any combination of $10, $25, $50, or $100) in T-Mobile refills for your Prepaid phone.

When will I get my bonus minutes?
Gold Rewards minutes are received on the NEXT refill card you redeem after you have officially qualified. More specifically, you will receive bonus minutes on the refill card redeemed after the one that carries you over the $100 refill mark.

Can I ever lose my Gold Rewards status?
Yes. To maintain your Gold Rewards status, you must keep your Prepaid account active. Activating a new line of service will result in the loss of your Gold Rewards status.

It sounds like they've changed things since I read the Gold Rewards info--my understanding was that it only lasts for a year. I'll have to look more carefully in a couple of months.

I pay 15$/month for a dumbphone, currently, and I'm going to go up to a prepaid smartphone in the next couple months(which is sadly going to cost 3x as much). It drives me crazy, though, to see some of my friends who make less than 20K per year paying $100 a month for their phone service.

I pay 15$/month for a dumbphone, currently, and I'm going to go up to a prepaid smartphone in the next couple months(which is sadly going to cost 3x as much). It drives me crazy, though, to see some of my friends who make less than 20K per year paying $100 a month for their phone service.

Wow!

What is Gold Rewards status?
With Gold Rewards status, you automatically receive 15% more minutes for free, and any unused minutes won’t expire for a full year!
.
the one Gat Ya is that you do not recieve bonus minutes on a $100 refill and the $100 refill is the only one that gets you the 10 cents a minute price , I have been Gold for 5 years and just added $100 last week with no 15% bonus,

false advertising ?

Soarer

OK...can someone explain to me how to get an iPhone or high-end Android phone prepaid on Verizon?

I have been "Gold Rewards" for at least 6 years and it has not changed since then. I just topup with $10 yearly.

It sounds like they've changed things since I read the Gold Rewards info--my understanding was that it only lasts for a year. I'll have to look more carefully in a couple of months.

the one Gat Ya is that you do not recieve bonus minutes on a $100 refill and the $100 refill is the only one that gets you the 10 cents a minute price , I have been Gold for 5 years and just added $100 last week with no 15% bonus,

false advertising ?

SoarerOr just intentionally confusing. The 1000 minutes already includes the 15% bonus.

Apparently there is some other way of funding where $100 would only get you 870 Minutes. Always been a mystery to me.

the one Gat Ya is that you do not recieve bonus minutes on a $100 refill and the $100 refill is the only one that gets you the 10 cents a minute price , I have been Gold for 5 years and just added $100 last week with no 15% bonus,

false advertising ?

Soarer

I can't possibly see how it's false advertising, as they clearly state

*If you purchase a $100 refill card, you’ll automatically qualify for Gold Rewards. Bonus minutes are already included in the card.

OK...can someone explain to me how to get an iPhone or high-end Android phone prepaid on Verizon?

To my knowledge, Page Plus is the only Verizon MVNO - the problem is you need an iPhone with the CDMA chip so it works on that network, and since the PP website only mentions "EVDO" for data, my guess is there is no 4G and probably barely 3G - maybe even 2G.

I read H20 also has Verizon coverage, but I'm not really sure.

You would need to buy a used Verizon-compatible iPhone or Android phone and then have the provider add its code to their system - definitely more complicated than a GSM phone.

I would call Page Plus and H20 first and ask them if you can bring a "former Verizon" phone to their network....and also have them confirm their data speed.

Tracfone uses Verizon in some markets on their branded service and StraightTalk.

Verizon has been coolish to the traditional MVNO market after realizing a $60,000,000 loss on Amp'd Mobile.

the one Gat Ya is that you do not recieve bonus minutes on a $100 refill and the $100 refill is the only one that gets you the 10 cents a minute price , I have been Gold for 5 years and just added $100 last week with no 15% bonus,

false advertising ?

Soarer

I get the impression that the 1000 minutes already includes the bonus.

I'm on a Sprint contract just for the unlimited data. As of last week, I had used 15 gigs of data for the month of August.

I pay 15$/month for a dumbphone, currently, and I'm going to go up to a prepaid smartphone in the next couple months(which is sadly going to cost 3x as much). It drives me crazy, though, to see some of my friends who make less than 20K per year paying $100 a month for their phone service.

I still marvel at the 4/5 check out girls at my local grocery store who each have an iPhone 4s. Madness.

the one Gat Ya is that you do not recieve bonus minutes on a $100 refill and the $100 refill is the only one that gets you the 10 cents a minute price , I have been Gold for 5 years and just added $100 last week with no 15% bonus,

false advertising ?

Soarer

If you look at terms for the gold reward program it states that there is no 15% on $100 as it's "assumed" there is already a discount on minutes when you opt for the $100 refill. You can always get a further discount on minutes by using some PIN services such as callingmart.com which periodically sends notices that they have minutes on sale for 5% off. You can also find discounted minutes on eBay.

"Gold Rewards

After $100 in refills, get 15 percent more minutes on all refills ($100 refill already includes bonus minutes."

If you want to view a discussion in the T-Mobile forum about whether the claim is legit or not:

http://support.t-mobile.com/message/143935

To my knowledge, Page Plus is the only Verizon MVNO - the problem is you need an iPhone with the CDMA chip so it works on that network, and since the PP website only mentions "EVDO" for data, my guess is there is no 4G and probably barely 3G - maybe even 2G.

I read H20 also has Verizon coverage, but I'm not really sure.

You would need to buy a used Verizon-compatible iPhone or Android phone and then have the provider add its code to their system - definitely more complicated than a GSM phone.

I would call Page Plus and H20 first and ask them if you can bring a "former Verizon" phone to their network....and also have them confirm their data speed.

All iPhones since the iPhone 4S have both CDMA and GSM radios. It's more of what MEID (serial number replacing ESN) Verizon/Sprint allow on their network than the limitation of what will or won't work. CDMA operators (Verizon/Sprint etc.) can limit which devices use their network by limiting which MEID devices can access their network.

I still marvel at the 4/5 check out girls at my local grocery store who each have an iPhone 4s. Madness.

Yes and no. It's the whole 'amortize through a monthly payment' mentality. I could say the same thing about people leasing cars who can't write it off on their tax returns but that might hit a little too close to home. :D

The 1000 minutes already includes the 15% bonus.

Bonus minutes are already included in the card.


I get the impression that the 1000 minutes already includes the bonus.


$100 refill already includes bonus minutes.

I think we need a 5th opinion on this. ^

Can someone else confirm? :p

I think we need a 5th opinion on this. ^

Can someone else confirm? :p

I can confirm. I worked for the company Tmo outsources to to handle their Prepay division (they're essentially 2 separate entities, made to seem like one). A lot of people who call in with this question gets the run around, being bounced from billing to tech support, just to get the same answer. Yes the bonus is included in the 1000 minutes. The majority of people who call in aren't really poor in my experience, but international travelers. I've talked to client from Japan, Canada, Australia, UK, and so on.

P.S. Most front line agents don't have the ability to do anything for you, ask to be transferred to "Escalation" or "Econ" if you run into any billing issue.

This may help to you , Top 5 pre-paid wireless plans (http://www.iitechinfo.com/2012/10/top-5-pre-paid-wireless-plans-for.html) ^

In South Korea, "prepaids are only for poor" statement is mostly true because two years contracts are already cheap enough unless you are a hobo. It's the outcome of heavy competition between network operators. For instance, if you bought Samsung Galaxy S III LTE last september with 24-month contract, it would cost you just $150. And this was not a upfront payment. There was zero upfront payment and your monthly payment for the device is just $6.61.

$6.61 = $150(Pricetag for SGS III at the moment) * 1.059(interest) / 24(month)

Normally, there is $45 early termination fee if you don't keep your contract for two years but they temporarily revoked the termination fee at the moment so there is zero early termination fee. Also, You don't need to payback a handset subsidies to your operator. If you terminate the contract early, what you have to pay is what you haven't paid for the device. (In this case, $150*(24-x)/24, x=months that you've used)

And plans are also extremely cheap too. 3G unlimited data with some voice minute and SMS/MMS cost you $35 monthly. There is no LTE unlimited plan but you can get 2GB Data + some Voice/SMS/MMS without paying more than $28/month.

So, If you use a Samsung Galaxy S III LTE with 2GB LTE Data Plan, this is what you get.

- terminate after 3 months of use
upfront $0 + monthly $27(plan)+$6.61(device) * 3 times + when you terminate $139(device) = gross total $239 ($79.95 per month)
So, you can get a used SGS III and the 2GB mobile service just for $79.95/m

- terminate after 6 months of use
upfront $0 + monthly $27(plan)+$6.61(device) * 6 times + when you terminate $119(device) = gross total $320 ($53.50 per month)
So, you can get a used SGS III and the 2GB mobile service just for $53.50/m

- terminate after 12 months of use
upfront $0 + monthly $27(plan)+$6.61(device) * 12 times + when you terminate $79(device) = gross total $482 ($40 per month)
So, you can get a used SGS III and the 2GB mobile service just for $40/m

- terminate after 24 months of use
upfront $0 - monthly $27(plan)+$6.61(device) * 24 times = gross total $806 ($33.61 per month)
So, you can get a used SGS III and the 2GB mobile service just for $33/m

In other words, If you keep pay your attention to mobile network operator (because these offers are limited and very time-specific one, usually 12-36 hours window of opportunity per month), you can get 8 latest smartphone in two-year period and mobile plan just for $80/m.

It cannot be applied to launch day buyer because they charge full price for them, but still you can buy it cheaper. For example, I've bought my second and third iPhone 4s just for $250 after 2 month of its release. So average cost is about $400. ($800 for first 4s 64GB which i've bought launch day + $500 for second and third 4s 16GB)

Of course if you buy a prepaid low-end phone through MVNO and you don't use your phone very much, your bill is getting even cheaper. I've seen that zero monthly bill and zero credit deterioration offer(outbound call 0.15cent per second, outbound message 18cent, unlimited inbound call/text) and $3/m data plan for email, messengers, light web use. but if you use your phone a lot, you can only save $50-100 for 2 year period by choosing a low-end phone + MVNO prepaid plan. so there is no reason to buy low-end phone to save $25-50 a year unless you have extremely bad credit or you are a practically hobo.

So, could you buy lots of phones, cancel and resell them on ebay? Seems like you could make a few hundred dollars per phone!

True, or I have a feeling Samsung is heavily subsidized just to get market share over there.

In South Korea, "prepaids are only for poor" statement is mostly true because two years contracts are already cheap enough unless you are a hobo. It's the outcome of heavy competition between network operators. For instance, if you bought Samsung Galaxy S III LTE last september with 24-month contract, it would cost you just $150. And this was not a upfront payment. There was zero upfront payment and your monthly payment for the device is just $6.61.

Of course if you buy a prepaid low-end phone through MVNO and you don't use your phone very much, your bill is getting even cheaper. I've seen that zero monthly bill and zero credit deterioration offer(outbound call 0.15cent per second, outbound message 18cent, unlimited inbound call/text) and $3/m data plan for email, messengers, light web use. but if you use your phone a lot, you can only save $50-100 for 2 year period by choosing a low-end phone + MVNO prepaid plan. so there is no reason to buy low-end phone to save $25-50 a year unless you have extremely bad credit or you are a practically hobo.

Welcome to FT!

I am half expecting some countries to start putting prepaid phones into their own area code, a virtual low rent district so to speak. They will claim it is for "security purposes." I've been told that the TRA in Dubai is thinking of putting the visitor SIMs into such an area.

I'm bummed because I just lost the number I've had for ten years based on their mandatory registration requirement that says you have to submit proof of residency to keep them. Apparently everything that wasn't registered was shut off. I also probably loss US$50 in that little stunt.

So, could you buy lots of phones, cancel and resell them on ebay? Seems like you could make a few hundred dollars per phone!

First part is true while second part is not because there are so many people who does that and it has turned into the red ocean business. Making $50 per phone is easy but more than a hundred belongs to the deal of the year territory.

True, or I have a feeling Samsung is heavily subsidized just to get market share over there.

Actually, Samsung has a dominant position in domestic market with 50%+ market share and they don't give fat subsidization to people. They've been giving more than Apple does for sure, but not like LG and Pantech does. For instance, Pantech Vega Racer 2 (Snapdragon S4 Dual, 1GB RAM, 4.8" 1280x720 screen, LTE support) was released for $800 on May and one of my friend has purchased this phone for $30 on June.

$30 is the result of combined actions of two factor. First one is a fat subsidization come from manufacturer (or more likely, they're never intended nor expected sell their product for $800. they just don't want to be considered as cheaper degraded counterpart. So they're matching the price tag with Samsung and giving retailers a fat rebate in order to motivate them selling their product to ignorant peoples) and the other one is a typical level of Operator's subsidization (which is around $200 I guess). $150 SGS3 is other story. It's mainly caused by insanely fat subsidization from network operators. I suspect they had thrown away at least $600 per SGS3 at the moment which is quite insane since they could get only $100 from ASAP terminators and $600-1000 from normal customers through 2 year period.

But prepaid kinda is for the poor. The lack of Prepaid LTE and grandfathered unlimited on my Verizon (I like buying my phones outright when I want anyway) will keep me where I am with little incentive to make a move given my usage habits. Only mildly intruiging is Republic for my college student (where there is a blanket of wifi).

And... how about hanging on to cheap-a$$ plans that are no longer offered? ;)

Honestly, nobody is going to ask or even care how much anyone is paying for their phone service.

Looking to go the pre-paid route. I was warned by T-Mobile that MVNOs on their network get lower priority compared to post-paid and T-Mobile's own PAYG brand. I'm sure that's true, but does it really matter?

Can anyone currently on an AT&T or T-Mobile MVNO chime in on their experiences with network/data availability?

I imagine the only time you'd really experience issues is during a natural disaster, but then, any network will be hosed.

I'm guessing it's a non-issue. Google only has provided me with one solid lead. Howard Forums (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1683640-Call-Priority-Prepaid-vs-Contract-Customers)

While I can't comment on Tmobile and AT&T, there have been many reviews when Virgin had a prepaid mifi on Sprint where they would put the sprint mifi and the virgin mifi next to each other and measure the speed. That's before the data cap on the "unlimited" plan was reached and they cut back your speed.

From http://www.evdoinfo.com for example

To compare the performance, we took a Virgin Mobile Broadband2Go MiFi 2200 & Sprint MiFi 2200 to a local restaurant where our signal strength was -78 dB (5 bars), and performed speed tests with both devices. Each test was performed in the exact same location, one right after the other, while the other device was powered off to ensure there wasn't any WiFi interference. Since Virgin Mobile uses Sprint's network and towers, one would expect to see the exact same results from both devices - as long as the network itself is treating both devices equally.

We expected there might be some difference, but we were shocked to see this big of a difference from the two services, considering they both use Sprint's 3G network! Per our testing, Virgin Mobile's service is only providing about 1/4 of the performance that Sprint devices are getting, in the exact same location. We continued to test with the Virgin Mobile MiFi, and our average speeds were 0.30 to 0.40 mbit/sec; the fastest speeds we were able to see was 0.60 mbit/sec in the middle of the night when there was probably no one else on the network. The Sprint MiFi consistently provided speeds that were several times faster in the same location. This tells us that Virgin Mobile subscribers are getting second priority on Sprint's network - they are essentially being given the "leftover" bandwidth available that's not being used by Sprint subscribers.

The speedtest images are here

http://www.evdoinfo.com/content/view/3368/64/

It may or may not matter, but it's worth doing a side by side if you can to see if it will or not.

Looking to go the pre-paid route. I was warned by T-Mobile that MVNOs on their network get lower priority compared to post-paid and T-Mobile's own PAYG brand. I'm sure that's true, but does it really matter?

Can anyone currently on an AT&T or T-Mobile MVNO chime in on their experiences with network/data availability?

I imagine the only time you'd really experience issues is during a natural disaster, but then, any network will be hosed.

I'm guessing it's a non-issue. Google only has provided me with one solid lead. Howard Forums (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1683640-Call-Priority-Prepaid-vs-Contract-Customers)


I have an HTC Inspire right now and I have tried both T-Mobile and AT&T MVNO's and am so incredibly happy with Straight Talk on AT&T. I have not had a single problem yet... I did have a few bumps with the T-Mobile but nothing that would want to make me sign a contract and pay double ever again.

Looking to go the pre-paid route. I was warned by T-Mobile that MVNOs on their network get lower priority compared to post-paid and T-Mobile's own PAYG brand. I'm sure that's true, but does it really matter?

To the best of my knowledge T-Mobile only rations capacity on their HSPA+ network

Whether HSPA, HSPA+, or LTE are essential to an individual really depends on individual usage. For email, both are certainly fine. In a cellular modem attached to a laptop, this might be a different story. It will probably two more years before we see LTE roaming and at least another year before have a phone that can work LTE in most countries. HSPA or HSPA+ is not a the ghetto -- it is staying at a Courtyard by Marriot rather than the JW Marriot.

My Straight Talk AT&T Sim always shows H+. I do speed tests ever few weeks and looking back at my Speedtest app history I am averaging 1.6 up and 1.05 down. I don't have any data with my old T-mobile Sim but can tell you it was not as consistently good.

I'm coming up on the end of my contract with AT&T with mine and my wifes iPhones. I plan on going the prepaid route. My son went with Net10 and it looks to be a pretty good deal. $50 a month all unlimited.

I tether occasionally when I travel, are there any prepaids that allow tethering?

I'm coming up on the end of my contract with AT&T with mine and my wifes iPhones. I plan on going the prepaid route. My son went with Net10 and it looks to be a pretty good deal. $50 a month all unlimited.

I tether occasionally when I travel, are there any prepaids that allow tethering?

Unfortunately with Net10 and its sister company TracFone you can only use their handsets since they have proprietary firmware on them. No BYOD with either Net10 or TracFone.

Net10 has offered an sim-only service on both T-Mobile and AT&T for some time.

Tracfone's old arrangement where usage was controlled by local firmware is not long for this world. In the old days Tracfone's lines were from a billing perspective just ordinary subscriber lines on the incumbent carriers system. Tracfone was just billed for usage and in the absence of usable prepaid middleware their clumsy firmware based system was the only way to go.

Unfortunately with Net10 and its sister company TracFone you can only use their handsets since they have proprietary firmware on them. No BYOD with either Net10 or TracFone.

Not anymore, you can use any unlocked GSM phone on net 10

http://net10sim.com/

I have had an ATT company phone with unlimited everything and LTE when it went live. However, that will be going away soon and i have been testing tmo $30 a month and Straight talk ATT $45 a month. I have used a Galaxy Nexus and an ATT skyrocket unlocked for sim to do this and switching the sims. Locations have been AUS, DFW, ABQ, OKC, LGA including Manhattan (midtown and downtown), and Brooklyn, DCA, BOS, PBI, ORD, Anchorage out to Homer, SMF, SEA, SJD, and SFO. Straight talk ATT MVNO typically beat the T Mo card with pings averaging 120, 3-5 mbs down and 1 up on average. Not nearly as fast as the 10-15 mbs down of my LTE, but since we have to pay for it, i think we will be going ST for a while. However, I think we will see something decent from Sprint/Clearwire/Softbank soon.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joanlappin/2012/10/28/softbanks-brilliant-buy-one-sprint-get-one-free-deal-clearwire/

Forgot to add T MO dinged me for tethering, ST hasn't yet. If i tether on the T MO to a PC it gets mad, but if I tether the Nexus 7/iPad, it doesn't.

Tethering is detected on most networks based on port traffic on ports a mobile device is very unlikely to use.

Use an anonymous VPN service like AceVPN over port 443 and you're home free.

Tethering is detected on most networks based on port traffic on ports a mobile device is very unlikely to use.

Use an anonymous VPN service like AceVPN over port 443 and you're home free.

great advice! thanks. Gotta love FT. The VPN is through the phone not the pc/tablet correct?

Another method from XDA. Changing the user agent on Chrome.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1688712&page=12

I am quite in the dark about all this, so I have a couple of questions.

I used to have the latest and greatest in cell phones when I had a sales job. Now I am a schoolteachre and, frankly, I feel I have too much information as it is. No, I don't want to scan an item at the market and find where I can get it cheaper. I do lots of research online. I don't like texting because it has too much of a sense of urgency for my taste. I find that most people that text have little to say anyway, other than "I am in line to buy tickets to the movie" etc. Who gives a hoot?

I am going to Europe for three weeks this summer, however, and would like to be able to make calls back to the U.S. I would also like some kind of GPS instrument that I could use to navigate, Paris, Barcelona and Madrid. I have a Garmin in my car that I am real happy with and would be willing to get an additional program for it that would cover European cities, if such an item exists.

My present phone is a simple LG clamshell type which I got and I use TrackPhone minutes on it. I use less than $80 per year in minutes and the phone was only $19.99. The battery is getting weak and I would not mind upgrading soon. No contract, just my own phone and buy minutes. I don't mind having separate appliances for GPS and phone. I like the larger screen on the Garmin I have now.

If I decide to get a new phone, which network or type of phone do I need in order to use in in Europe? How about a GPS? Is there a thread on this forum I can access and become better informed?

Thank you,

Mirko

I pay 15$/month for a dumbphone, currently, and I'm going to go up to a prepaid smartphone in the next couple months(which is sadly going to cost 3x as much). It drives me crazy, though, to see some of my friends who make less than 20K per year paying $100 a month for their phone service.

Expensive phones are poor people's most evident sign of wealth.

Expensive phones are poor people's most evident sign of wealth.

+100 :D

A colleague of mine said her maid/nanny was showing off her newest shiny iProduct the other day. :D :D




If I decide to get a new phone, which network or type of phone do I need in order to use in in Europe? How about a GPS? Is there a thread on this forum I can access and become better informed?

I'd get an older (1-2 year old) Android phone that has been unlocked. All of these should be quad-band GSM - which effectively means it's a world phone and you're able to plunk in any SIM card and get it working immediately. If it hasn't been unlocked, no biggie, as that's about an extra $10-15 to get an unlock code. Those phones are usually <$100 and are able to run the newer Android OS and have built-in GPS. On Android, there is a FREE GPS program called CoPilot GPS that offers FREE North Amer + Europe maps. All of these maps are loaded on your phone so you use NO data over the network. Lastly, for normal calls, you're able to load up Skype and reduce costs that way.

As an example, I see on my local Craigslist that the Motorola Defy runs around $100 and the Motorola Atrix runs around $130-150. Both have an older Android OS running (2.2 and 2.36, respectively) but are able to run the CoPilot program. If you're lucky, you might even get it rooted running a Custom ROM, but you should read up on that. All it means is that there is work out there that allows these phones to run the newest Android OS (4.1 - Jellybean).

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