France - CDG or GVA to visit southern burgundy?

We are going to France this fall, visiting burgundy area. We have flown into CDG numerous times, arrive exhausted, pick up the rental car, then have to navigate the peripherique. Not a fun way to start a vacation.Is the Geneva airport any easier to exit than CDG and would it be fairly straightforward to cross the border into France? Are there any flights into Orly anymore?

Nancy

No contest: taking Beaune as the destination, GVA is 144 miles away on mostly low traffic highways, CDG 208 miles including the stressful Paris bypass. GVA is a small, easy to navigate airport. The border is often unmanned, with most non-suspicious vehicles waved through when staffed.

If Burgundy-bound do book your rental car for pickup on the French side of the airport, which will yield lower rates and less conspicuous local plates.
The one drawback is that a CHF40 Swiss highway sticker is required for the short stretch between GVA and the border, and a French rental car will most likely not have it, unless a previous renter invested into one (odds are better in the fall than early in the year).
If so motivated you can circumvent this by taking the D884/D1206 roads between Geneva and Bellegarde, where you can hop back onto the A40 highway.

Orly these days caters to domestic and leisure destinations, mostly on charter/low-cost/developing countries carriers.

As an alternative, you could fly to CDG and take a direct TGV train from the airport to Lyon which is only ~45 minutes by car from Beaune. I believe the CDG-Lyon direct runs every two hours and takes about two hours.

i would consider flying to lyon(lys) also. right decent airport. has lot of connector flights from cdg,bru, fra, muc, etc. the cost is probably the same as memphis to cdg. and you will miss cdg completely. skip the train hassle. stay overnight in lyon and start from there.

check additional cost of rental in swiss. i would not consider driving and overnight parking a car with swiss plates in france. gave up renting belgian cars for french trips. the plates are thief magnets. ua has a lot of empty planes flying into bru. ua has direct flights usa-gva. nice airport.

I will look into the Sixt rentals at GVA, and the cost of a CHF40 Swiss highway sticker. How far a drive is it from GVA to the French border? Will also look into flying into Lyon.
Do not want to do a train, too much hassle w/luggage.

Did check w/Sixt, very reasonable prices from GVA French sector.

As the discussion is centering around one destination, we'll move this over to the France forum for the experts there to chime in. Thanks! :) /JY1024, TravelBuzz co-moderator

How far a drive is it from GVA to the French border?.

GVA French sector is technically in France already, with its own access road to Ferney-Voltaire, the nearest French town.

GVA to the French border by highway is 7 miles.


i would not consider driving and overnight parking a car with swiss plates in france. gave up renting belgian cars for french trips. the plates are thief magnets.

I usually rent a French rental car for longer trips into France, especially southern France and urban areas, but Burgundy is one place I have no qualms driving around with Swiss plates, it is rural and very safe.

i would consider flying to lyon(lys) also. right decent airport. has lot of connector flights from cdg,bru, fra, muc, etc. the cost is probably the same as memphis to cdg. and you will miss cdg completely. skip the train hassle. stay overnight in lyon and start from there.

check additional cost of rental in swiss. i would not consider driving and overnight parking a car with swiss plates in france. gave up renting belgian cars for french trips. the plates are thief magnets. ua has a lot of empty planes flying into bru. ua has direct flights usa-gva. nice airport.

While I second flying into LYS, I don't see absolutely no problem driving in France with CH plates. I did this numerous times (even in Southern France) and never ever had any problems.

Just a word regarding getting out of CDG. Going towards Burgundy, you don't have to take the peripherique or going through central Paris. In fact you take the outer ring road A104 and join then the A5 which is painless, but I agree that GVA and especially LYS is easier.

I don't see absolutely no problem driving in France with CH plates. I did this numerous times (even in Southern France) and never ever had any problems.

I haven't either, but a neighbor had his Audi stolen, and a friend nearly had his Mercedes carjacked, both in Provence.

Somehow I feel French (-branded and -plated) cars are ideal for touring France, just as American ones are for driving across the US. No need to draw undue attention.

"Going towards Burgundy, you don't have to take the peripherique or going through central Paris. In fact you take the outer ring road A104 and join then the A5 which is painless"
We have flown into CDG numerous times and every time we leave CDG, usually heading for the Loire area, we have made an incorrect turn(one time we ended up driving towards Paris, my husband kept saying, We want to go towards Orleans, I saw a sign for Porte D'Orleans and we went in that direction. Oops). If we never drive on the peripherique again, that would be fine with us.

Just a word regarding getting out of CDG. Going towards Burgundy, you don't have to take the peripherique or going through central Paris. In fact you take the outer ring road A104 and join then the A5 which is painless.

Fully agree. :)

As an alternative, you could fly to CDG and take a direct TGV train from the airport to Lyon which is only ~45 minutes by car from Beaune. I believe the CDG-Lyon direct runs every two hours and takes about two hours.

Are there no direct TGV trains to Dijon/Creusot TGV?

Are there no direct TGV trains to Dijon/Creusot TGV?Nope. You need to go to Gare de Lyon for those TGVs. If the OP is headed towards Northern Burgundy (say: between Montbard and Dijon), I'd consider that. If the OP is headed towards Souther Burgundy (South of Beaune), train from CDG2 to Lyon-Part-Dieu would make sense.

Similarly, as between CDG and GVA, depending on where the OP is going to in Burgundy, either might be suitable. For Northern Burgundy, I would go for CDG (using the Francilienne rather than the périphérique). For Southern Burgundy, I would go for GVA (as a second best after Lyon), assuming that the OP's flight timings to GVA are as convenient as for CDG, which may or may not be the case.

IME. car rental rates are often cheaper from the French side than the Swiss side. If renting from the French side, I would not personally pay for the Vignette for the 10 or so miles of Swiss motorway. I'd use ordinary road to cross Geneva, on the assumption that this is not rush hour (it is also possible to route entirely on smaller roads the French side if the timings are bad from crossing Geneva).

From my experience, flying into GVA is more reasonable than flying into CDG. Driving out of GVA is quite simple especially if you have a GPS. We always rent from the Swiss side but that's a matter of preference.

Flying into LYS is a good idea but, for us, the flights were not accommodating since we'd have to depart at 5:30am. Maybe flying an open jaw into LYS and out of GVA would be a possibility if the cost of the rental wouldn't be excessive.

Bobette

Maybe flying an open jaw into LYS and out of GVA would be a possibility if the cost of the rental wouldn't be excessive.

BobetteIME, Avis and Hertz will typically not charge a drop fee between French locations. If returning to Geneva, French-side, therefore, it should be OK. I have in the past hired cars in or near MRS and returned them in GVA (French side) at very reasonable rates without problem. OT, returning to GVA, Swiss side, would be very expensive as cross-border returns are charged a substantial drop fee.

OT, returning to GVA, Swiss side, would be very expensive as cross-border returns are charged a substantial drop fee.

Indeed.

Remember still that finding your way to the French side of GVA airport can be tricky (as the policy of the Swiss authorities is to show the way only of the Swiss side...). The advantage of the French side is that you do not need to take a shuttle to the airport (direct access to the Terminal from the rent-a-car parking).

Coming from Geneva city centre: follow Ferney-Voltaire, then France, drive into the tunnel under the runway, cross the border, and then turn-left: it is only at this point that "Aéroport secteur Français" is indicated.

"Going towards Burgundy, you don't have to take the peripherique you take the outer ring road A104 and join then the A5 which is painless"

OK. So now I am looking into landing at CDG, visiting northern burgundy first, then heading south for a week and leaving from GVA. Sixt rentals are reasonable, fares are good, though I'm having a hard time finding a non-stop from GVA to the states.

I'm having a hard time finding a non-stop from GVA to the states.

There are only 3:
- LX to JFK
- UA (PMUA) to IAD
- UA (PMCO) to EWR

Well, that certainly simplifies my Searches for flights. Thanks for the heads-up.

Originally Posted by nicolas75
Are there no direct TGV trains to Dijon/Creusot TGV?


Nope. You need to go to Gare de Lyon for those TGVs. If the OP is headed towards Northern Burgundy (say: between Montbard and Dijon), I'd consider that. If the OP is headed towards Souther Burgundy (South of Beaune), train from CDG2 to Lyon-Part-Dieu would make sense.

What? Of course there are TGV trains from CDG to Dijon and Le Creusot! I take them often as I live in Burgundy. There is only one per day in each direction to and from Dijon, but there are several to Le Creusot. And from Dijon you can connect to Beaune, Mersault, Nuits St. George, Gevrey-Chambertin, Chalon Sur Saone, etc.

As someone who lives here my preferred airport is LYS, but oftentimes the airfare and timing works best at CDG. Feel free to OP me if you have more specific questions.

There is only one per day in each direction to and from DijonI was aware of that: one a day (around 7am departure from Dijon and around 8pm departure from Roissy) compared to numerous ones to/from Gare de Lyon. Do you not think that it pretty much proves my point, especially as the Roissy-Dijon timing is unlikely to be suitable for connection from most tatl flights?


but there are several to Le Creusot.Really? I can only see an early morning one at 6h30am from le Creusot to Roissy and a late evening one for the return at 21h16, i.e broadly similar to the Dijon-Roissy-Dijon times an early morning Roissy-bound/late evening province-bound.

When are those several others that you mention?

Well I guess I'm out of date. The SNCF seems to have reduced the frequency between Le Creusot and CDG which seems pretty crazy to me. The line between Lyon and Paris passes Le Creusot and they used to stop about one in every 4 trains there. I took the early train from Le Creusot to CDG a few weeks ago and there were close to a hundred people getting on at Le Creusot.

But back to driving as it seems that is what the OP wants to do, you can always buy a GPS or rent one from Sixt (buying might be cheaper) or if you have one in the US you can see if you can load a Euro map on it. That will help you deal with Paris. Compare that with the cost of flying into GVA or LYS. Driving up to Burgundy from GVA is easy, but a fair bit longer than LYS. They recently built a new autoroute from LYS in the direction of Macon which completely avoids the Lyon traffic and most semi's.

"Compare that with the cost of flying into GVA"
Actually, roundtrip from the states to CDG is about the same fare as it is to GVA. And a split fare, fly into CDG and back from GVA, is also about that same price. I was very surprised.

Flying into CDG and driving from there through northern Burgundy south is pretty easy...and a wonderful experience. We've done it a couple of times over the past few years.

CDG to Auxerre is about two hours...pretty easy as long as you stay away from Paris. We made overnight stops in Auxerre, Avallon and Autun. We then drove down to the Tournus and Beaujolais area for a couple of nights before heading back up to Beaune (overnight) and then Dijon. We dropped our car off at Dijon train station (you can also drop in Beaune) and stayed a couple of days (great city). We caught the early morning train back to CDG to connect to our return flight to the US. Wonderful trip...great food/wine...wonderful scenery...very nice people all along the way.

BTW, we also did a trip that included taking the TGV from Paris to Lyon, picking up a rental car at the train station and driving into the French Alps...Annecy and Chamonix. Annecy, very close to GVA (30-40 min), is a great spot for an overnight or two after arriving at GVA...we have it on our list for a future trip. From there, it's about 2 hrs of very easy highway driving through beautiful countryside to the Beaujolais/S. Burgundy area.

Meursault, Nuit St. Georges, Gevrey-Chambertin

No wonder why you live in Burgundy... ;)

I was in a rush!

I was in a rush!

I was referring to wines, not spelling typos ;)

"hard time finding a non-stop from GVA to the states.
There are only 3:
- LX to JFK
- UA (PMUA) to IAD
- UA (PMCO) to EWR "

I cannot find the non-stop GVA-IAD, only GVA-EWR. Outbound from states(we leave from Tennessee) to GVA schedule is fine, all returning schedules show 2 stops or a 7+ hr layover in EWR.
Well, I went back to UA's website and changed my return date to a weekend. There was the non-stop to IAD.

I cannot find the non-stop GVA-IAD, only GVA-EWR.

Well, I went back to UA's website and changed my return date to a weekend. There was the non-stop to IAD.

Hmm, UA 975 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL975) GVA-IAD is a daily flight to my knowledge.

Or maybe is it sold out in your class of choice on your preferred date? Usually it seems mostly full in business class due to diplomatic traffic, fairly full in E- due to the Swiss codeshare, and less so in E+ which is mostly off-limits to non-UA elites.

P.S: if you are not up front and don't have access to Economy Plus, try to snag 28A/B or J/K, which are E+ seats but sometimes seem available to E- passengers (28 C/E/H have the usual 31" E- pitch).

Yes, the flight on Oct. 19 and Oct. 20 is UA 975. The connection time in IAD is just over 2 hrs., that may be cutting it a bit too close. The next flight out of IAD would be a 7 hr. layover.
As to flight 957, when I look on Oct. 18, Thursday, I cannot find it. It is offered Oct 17 but not Oct. 16. Ick. Now this search is not only for price but for a certain flight. They don't make this easy. Now I need to find out when the diplomatic traffic is taking a week off....Thanks for the flight #.

Further research indicates UA 975 will go to a M/W/F/Sat/Sun frequency starting 10/17/12 until March.

I don't recall this off-season reduction in past years, but neither was I checking. Sorry for the misleading info.

Award seats in business class are extremely rare on this flight, in my experience.

the winter cutbacks out of iad are very common. 2 planes to 1, 777 instead of 747, 777 to 767, and fewer days. the day i looked i did not see a nonstop biz saver gve-iad, but there was one gve -ewr only about 5 of 50 seats taken.

i am flying iad-lys-iad(with transfers and layovers) on oct 30-nov8. i wanted to go earlier, but no seats available. now there is a ton of availability over the whole month of oct.

couple months ago, we flew back bcn-gve-iad in biz. think on a ua 767.

Just curious, by gve are you meaning gva(Geneva)? What is biz saver? I have a choice to fly GVA-EWR or GVA-IAD on our return. Looks as though half of the back half of the plane is Economy Plus. Not sure what the advantages are to that.
I was just given a quote from an online travel agency(bidding) to fly first class
TYS- GVA-TYS for $2,800. Outgoing schedule was great, return not-so-much(2 stops). I told them if they could get it down to 1 stop on the return I would go for it. Assuming that price is all inclusive.We'll see.