Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate - NJ Man Accused Of Sexually Abusing Sleeping Woman During UA Flight

Onboard a UA flight (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/08/22/n-j-man-accused-of-sexually-abusing-sleeping-woman-during-flight/) from PHX-EWR

Onboard a UA flight (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/08/22/n-j-man-accused-of-sexually-abusing-sleeping-woman-during-flight/) from PHX-EWR

The Article says he could face LIFE IN PRISON! Wouldn't, say, 5 years be enough? I'm not diminishing the seriousness of the crime, but LIFE IN PRISON? Murderers don't get that.

Since this is a story about an occurrence on a United flight, per http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-news/1184086-welcome-travel-news-what-should-posted-here-what-should-posted-elsewhere.html I'll send this to that forum while leaving a 30-day re-direct here for those who wish to follow.

cblaisd
Moderator, Travel News

According to the article: "He’s been ordered held without bail as a possible flight risk."

Flight risk, indeed!

The Article says he could face LIFE IN PRISON! Wouldn't, say, 5 years be enough? I'm not diminishing the seriousness of the crime, but LIFE IN PRISON? Murderers don't get that.

That is a maximum sentense. Unlikely that the alledged scum will get the maximum, it being a first offense.

i dont even understand how anyone would do that to a stranger, in an enclosed space, and another person sitting right next to him? if i understand this story correctly, he had to be in a middle seat with a third person on his other armrest?

"The victim’s story was backed up by the passenger sitting on the other side of Aksal,"

so the third person just sat there and watched this happen? didnt call anyone over? maybe the third person was asleep, but if that were the case, they wouldnt be able to backup the vic story.

there has to be more to this... doesn't quite pass the smell test to me...

i dont even understand how anyone would do that to a stranger, in an enclosed space, and another person sitting right next to him? if i understand this story correctly, he had to be in a middle seat with a third person on his other armrest?

"The victim’s story was backed up by the passenger sitting on the other side of Aksal,"

so the third person just sat there and watched this happen? didnt call anyone over? maybe the third person was asleep, but if that were the case, they wouldnt be able to backup the vic story.

there has to be more to this... doesn't quite pass the smell test to me...

It could be that the person in the aisle seat mistakenly thought that the other two were together as a couple. Had they been, such behavior may still have been wrong and illegal but might have been more easily ignored by the person in the aisle seat. Likewise, he may have not noticed it until the woman woke up and screamed at the alledged criminal. At time of scream, the third person could have looked over and seen the hands before they were retracted from the woman's clothing.

I wouldn't say that this should fail your smell test, but of course there is more to the story which will come out of it is taken to trial. Unitil then, all is just speculation.

The armrest was completely up for the duration of the period when the claimed in-flight sleaze was occurring? Did both passengers bordering the armrest consent to the armrest being raised?

The seats on these planes aren't generally so wide and passengers so slender as to easily enable moving an armrest completely up without disturbing the neighboring passenger. Then again if a person is under the influence of alcohol or some other drug or been exhausted in the days prior, who knows.

The aisle seat witness will be testifying in court too? It will be interesting to see if the reported molester's attorney tests that person's credibility too.

This alleged creep sounds like someone who would largely be suitable for TSA employment.

According to the article: "He’s been ordered held without bail as a possible flight risk."

Flight risk, indeed!

Foreign passport eligibility, lack of reported steady employment, lack of substantial fixed property in the country and few if any immediate family in the US?

The armrest was completely up for the duration of the period when the claimed in-flight sleaze was occurring? Did both passengers bordering the armrest consent to the armrest being raised?


Often, all seat rests are in the up position when boarding starts; it helps the boarding go a bit quicker. If the first person to sit is not a regular traveller, s/he may not lower the arm rest. If that's the case, sometimes the next person does not lower it either - for a variety of reasons.

It could be that the person in the aisle seat mistakenly thought that the other two were together as a couple. Had they been, such behavior may still have been wrong and illegal but might have been more easily ignored by the person in the aisle seat. Likewise, he may have not noticed it until the woman woke up and screamed at the alledged criminal. At time of scream, the third person could have looked over and seen the hands before they were retracted from the woman's clothing.

Yeah. If I saw a couple engaging in such hanky panky on a darkened plane I wouldn't say anything.

I like all the retarded comments in the comments section about foreigners although nothing in the article (or maybe I missed it ) suggests this guy is a foreigner or here on a visa. Possibly because he looks "foreign" or because of his name.

According to the article: "He’s been ordered held without bail as a possible flight risk."

Flight risk, indeed!
Foreign passport eligibility, lack of reported steady employment, lack of substantial fixed property in the country and few if any immediate family in the US?
I thought kale73 was suggesting a pun, not questioning the lack of bail. :D

I like all the retarded comments in the comments section about foreigners although nothing in the article (or maybe I missed it ) suggests this guy is a foreigner or here on a visa. Possibly because he looks "foreign" or because of his name.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9493687/Man-accused-of-sexually-abusing-woman-on-US-flight.html

"Prosecutors said Askal, a Turkish national with U.S. citizenship, was sitting in the middle seat on United Airlines Flight 306 from Phoenix to Newark, New Jersey, on Monday night when he abused the woman, who was sitting in the window seat."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9493687/Man-accused-of-sexually-abusing-woman-on-US-flight.html

"Prosecutors said Askal, a Turkish national with U.S. citizenship, was sitting in the middle seat on United Airlines Flight 306 from Phoenix to Newark, New Jersey, on Monday night when he abused the woman, who was sitting in the window seat."

Well if he's a US Citizen he's not a foreigner.

Well if he's a US Citizen he's not a foreigner.

I offered the link merely by way of understanding why some commenters would consider him a "foreigner."

Well if he's a US Citizen he's not a foreigner.

Could be both (dual citizenship).

I offered the link merely by way of understanding why some commenters would consider him a "foreigner."

Sure I got that although it is poor reporting on the part of the linked article - what they were meaning is a naturalized American Citizen born and possibly grew up in Turkey.

Even a dual Citizen would not make him a foreigner here although in theory you could have various shades of "foreigner" in you depending on when you or you ancestors came.

I recall the BBC getting some grief years ago when I used to live in the UK for reporting a story involving 4 American citizens one of whom was a naturalized citizen from India as "3 Americans and one Indian with an American passport". For those who know anything about Indian Citizenship they do not allow dual so in theory that description was poor. I understood what they were getting at but poorly reported.

Could be both (dual citizenship).

In the US, a foreigner is not a national/citizen of the US. This person is an American eligible for a Turkish passport.

The idea of calling dual US citizens "foreigners" in the US is rooted in the muddy thinking of xenophobia.

I thought kale73 was suggesting a pun, not questioning the lack of bail. :D

Indeed, but it is always interesting to find out what is considered a flight risk such that bail is denied.

To female travelers, it was an alarming reminder to be aware of fellow travelers sitting just a few inches away.

Am I the only one that thinks this is pretty sexist? I mean should male travelers not be aware of fellow travelers sitting just a few inches away?

If male travelers are molested would the woman be subject to the possibility of life in prison?


“It makes you think now, when you get on the plane. [It's] something else to worry about,” said Susan Pear of Brick, N.J.

Where do they find these people to get shock and awe responses from? No, it's not something else to worry about, the odds are probably better that the plane will crash than you'll get molested on an airplane.

These are the same people that will smoke two packs a day and hop in their car, but an isolated incident all of a sudden becomes worrying?

However, one neighbor told CBS 2′s Jessica Schneider that Aksal regularly gives that neighbor’s wife inappropriate looks and has been known to people in the area as a prolific womanizer.

Better start locking up anyone that gives someone an "inappropriate" look, and if he's a prolific womanizer then let's demonize him instead of just sticking to the facts.

He deserves some significant jail time or a bullet for sexually molesting someone against their will if it's true(the whole innocent until proven guilty thing tends to get thrown out nowadays and it's a full on witch hunt), but let the facts speak for themselves and why sensationalize an isolated incident?

Hypothetically if it was consentual he's still up a creek without a paddle given the whole lack of evidence to prove it was.

Time to start getting consent forms gentlemen(and women, since men could claim there was no consent as well and would "totally" be taken seriously by the authorities).

..
If male travelers are molested would the woman be subject to the possibility of life in prison?
...

You really like playing the odds, eh?

You really like playing the odds, eh?

Well I mean, someone has to point out the sexism rampant in the article, the facts should stand on their own without the need to sensationalize what happened.

There is also a huge double-standard when it comes to males versus females getting molested/raped and also a disturbing lack of evidence required to convict people for up to LIFE in prison.

I was on a flight recently. Middle seat. Overnight Flight. Woman next to me woke up screaming bloody murder from a nightmare. The first thought that went through my mind was, "oh crap! I'm in deep ....!"

The thing is? NOBODY came to see what was going on. Woman fell back to sleep in about 15 seconds.

If she'd been dreaming of being molested? I'd be where this fellow is now. regardless of my innocence.

My worry on planes is people with loud, badly behaved children especially on a long haul flight. Always cross my fingers and hope they are seated far away from me. That's a bigger issue for me than things like "foreign" looking people about to molest me.:D

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9493687/Man-accused-of-sexually-abusing-woman-on-US-flight.html

"Prosecutors said Askal, a Turkish national with U.S. citizenship, was sitting in the middle seat on United Airlines Flight 306 from Phoenix to Newark, New Jersey, on Monday night when he abused the woman, who was sitting in the window seat."
Do naturalized US citizens that were Turkish nationals have to forfeit their Turkish citizenship?

That is a maximum sentense. Unlikely that the alledged scum will get the maximum, it being a first offense.

And when he's out, he'll get a job for the TSA.

Do naturalized US citizens that were Turkish nationals have to forfeit their Turkish citizenship?

Not under US law. I am uncertain if Turkish law permits it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Dual_citizenship