Credit Card Programs - Help me figure out an application strategy [ATL-PPT]?

Hi! So I posted yesterday, asking for some general information since I am an admitted newbie to this, and today I have a more in-depth question for you seasoned FTs if you are so inclined to help me! I

Next summer we will be taking our big honeymoon trip, but since the bf will be beginning his ph.d. ($$$) we would like to do it as much on points as possible. This winter, we are going to back to his hometown (Paris) for 18 days on points, which I am very proud to have pulled off in about 3 months of hard work with DL. But, I would like some assistance in laying out an application plan for the future if anyone can help. I have prepared what I think may be a good plan as I have outlined below, but I would love some expert advice before I just start going off and applying willy nilly in case I am not going in the right direction.

It has always been our dream to go to the Maldives, so let's start there. It may be too aspirational, so let me know your thoughts. Maybe I do not have enough time to work this trip, or maybe I should focus on somewhere else (for instance, I know the weather in the Maldives in summer can be horrendous.) We will be probably leaving from ATL, though we may leave from CDG if we are already there. Two leaving points, I know I know... Even help on just one would be great. Same with return. We may return to the States or we may return to stay in Europe. (We won't know 100 percent on this until March, unfortunately, but, of course, I know I need to go ahead and start planning now, if I can in a way that will get me the best set up for either circumstance.) Also, we do not need the best of the best (e.g. first class flights, upgraded rooms. We want to go for the experience and the joy of visiting the Maldives, not to do everything in luxury.)

Here's the current lay of the land:

Me - Good/excellent credit with a 10-year credit history.

Current cards:
- 10-year-old Edward Jones Worldpoints - low APY and occassionally carry a balance. No real points to speak of but keeping for the credit history building, credit line, and ability to carry a balance if need be
- Delta Gold AmEx - since February/March 2012
- Chase Sapphire - approved August 2012, waiting to receive in the mail
- U.S. Barclay's Card - approved August 2012, waiting to receive in the mail
- U.S. Bank Card - applied August 2012, pending approval

Him - Average credit with a 2-3 year history.
Current cards:
- 2-3 year old BoA branded AmEx. - Their average, basic one. He'll keep for credit history.
- Delta Gold AmEx - since July 2012
- U.S. Barclay's Card - approved August 2012, waiting to receive in the mail

Our combined monthly spend is about 1.5-2K. I am trying to figure out how to pay our rent on a cc (normally we do a BoA - BoA transfer to the landlord,) so if anyone has any suggestions, please PM me. We do not have the available cash to front-load any expenses, but other suggestions are welcome via PM.

My strategy (what do you think?)
Me
- Now - apply for BoA Virgin Atlantic AmEx (Thoughts on getting this given my most recent apps?)
- December 1 - apply for Chase Hyatt card - 2 free nights
Him
- Now - apply for Chase Hyatt - 2 free nights
- Now - apply for BoA Hawaiian Air Visa (with just an average credit score, what are his possibilities of getting this and the Sapphire in December?)
- December 1 - apply for Chase Sapphire card (thoughts on his getting this with just an average credit score the Chase Hyatt card 3 months prior?)
- December 1 - Apply for BoA Virgin Atlantic AmEx (Thoughts on possibility of getting 3 BoA branded cards with two being in the last 3 months?)


Hotel:
Option 1 - Park Hyatt:
- Combine the 4 nights from the Chase Hyatt card (If we don't use these nights for the Maldives we could use them when we are in Paris this winter for a few days)
- Transfer the 80K points from the Sapphire (assuming he gets it) into Hyatt points? (But this won't be enough to get the Passport Escape package, so I am lost here. I'd also prefer to use those points for airfare.)
Option 2 - Hilton:
- Transfer the points from the BoA Virgin Atlantic cards and BoA Hawaiian Air into 270,000 combined HH points (Will this be enough for a few nights stay with dinners?)

Air:
Me:
- Combine my 20K DL points with 40K Sapphire points. Transfer the 30K U.S. Air points from the Barclay's card to United through the Star Alliance and then transfer them from United to the SkyTeam to combine with the 60K points already there. Total would be 90K points. Use them on Skyteam partners Aeroflot or China Southern. (Is all of this transferring between airlines allowed, and will it be at a 1:1 ratio?)
Him:
- Same as mine except he will start off with just a smattering of DL points, so he would be at a total of 70K.

Any suggestions as to other cards to apply for, comments on my strategy and advice would be so greatly appreciated, either here or via PM. I've been reading everything I can on the forums, but, like I said, don't want to jump too far into this without your expert advice first!

P.S. I hope this is the right forum. Please feel free to move if not!

I admit I have no experience with planning a trip to the Maldives, but I want to comment on several points.

Delta Skymiles cannot be transferred into any other frequent flyer program, and Chase Ultimate Rewards points may only be transferred to United, Korean, or British Airways. While transferring to Korean allows you to book Delta flights through Skyteam, there is still no way to combine those miles/points with existing Skymiles. I would avoid British Airways due to expensive fuel surcharges.

US Airways miles cannot be transferred to United. You may redeem them for United or Star Alliance flights if you have enough for an award. Consider that SPG points can be transferred into US Airways miles at a ratio of 20,000 SPG = 25,000 miles (or smaller balances at 1:1).

You cannot transfer frequent flyer miles from one program to another, at least not without losing 90% of their value. Some hotel points or credit card points can transfer into frequent flyer miles.

You will need to pick one alliance and build from there. Here are some ways to combine points.

Skyteam: Transfer SPG points or Amex Membership Rewards points into Delta. Or transfer Chase Ultimate Rewards points into Korean.

OneWorld: Get two AA cards each at 50,000 miles each. SPG points can transfer to AA.

Star Alliance: Get a United Explorer card and transfer Chase UR to United. Or, transfer SPG points to US Airways. You can book tickets on the same flight using United miles and US Airways miles, but you cannot combine them.

Some people book one way tickets on AA and United both for one trip. However, United requires that flights booked on their partner airlines be booked as a roundtrip.

Good luck on your honeymoon! I hope someone else can advise which carrier is best for flights to the Maldives.

birdseye - Thank you for your reply! I guess I figured that between the partnerships the points could be easily transferable since I have transferred points to/from DL and Air France before with no hassle.

It looks like your suggestion would be to fly AA. But none of the cards that I have or intended to apply for would be AA cards, so it looks like I need to completely rethink this strategy a bit.

It is easy to book flights on another carrier within the same alliance, but that is not the same thing as transferring miles. I would guess that you used Delta Skymiles to book flights on AirFrance, rather than transferring miles to AirFrance. (Hint: I bet you used Delta's website to book the flights. If you search for the same flights on AirFrance's website, you will find the taxes are a lot higher).

You can do the same thing by using US Airways miles to book a flight on United or Lufthansa. But the miles are not actually transferring to those programs.

I couldn't begin to guess whether AA is best for the Maldives, but it is the easiest to accumulate large quantities of miles within short periods of time. I am hoarding miles in all three alliances, and when I search possible itineraries, I usually find the most award seats and the most possible connections using Star Alliance.

birdseye - I actually just had an Air France ticket (ATL - IST), booked through Air France, that I convinced Delta to give me SkyMiles for because they are in the same alliance after a few emails back and forth. One question with hoarding points... do you have any worries about them expiring? My feeling, just starting this, is that I would be sad to use a card sign-up bonus, etc., just to get it if the points are going to go unused and then expire because that card could have been replaced by one that would have given me points I would use. I'd love to know your thoughts on this or how you keep your points from expiring... (Admittedly, I haven't really read the forums about expiring points, so there may be some magic to keeping them around forever that I haven't looked at yet.)

birdseye - Thank you for your reply! I guess I figured that between the partnerships the points could be easily transferable since I have transferred points to/from DL and Air France before with no hassle.

It looks like your suggestion would be to fly AA. But none of the cards that I have or intended to apply for would be AA cards, so it looks like I need to completely rethink this strategy a bit.


The most important thing to do will be to try to determine when you plan to go, and then find out what program has award availability for what you want. You have a year to build the miles, so that should be enough to pull in a good number of award miles.

The problem with the Maldives is that it's literally on the other side of the world from NA. Singapore airlines flies there, so you could probably get decent routing using Star Alliance.

Just for fun, I plugged in ATL > MLE next summer on United. Dates are flexible, but it comes up to:

Total Price 80,000 Miles and $108.40

Atlanta > Frankfurt > Istanbul > Male

Male > Doha (Qatar) > Frankfurt > Atlanta

Per person. 160K UA miles. You can get 60K (i think?) with the UA card, 40K with the CSP, and any points earned with the Freedom/CSP can be transferred to UA. I would not transfer SPG to UA, because of the awful 1:2 transfer rate.

Again, I am NO expert on award booking yet, and definitely not an expert on finding the best routing, but that might be a decent start in terms of data points.

birdseye - One question with hoarding points... do you have any worries about them expiring?

Delta miles never expire.

AA, UA, and US Airways miles require activity every 18 months to keep them from expiring. Activity can be earning miles from a credit card, a shopping portal, dining program, etc. E-rewards and E-miles give points for surveys that can be periodically redeemed for small quantities of frequent flyer miles as well. I track expiration dates through Awardwallet, except for AA who doesn't participate, and I have that date in a spreadsheet. I am quite content to buy a song from Itunes every 18 months if I need to to keep my miles from expiring.

I am hoarding points because I have a family of 4, so it takes more miles and points to plan a vacation, and also because my husband and I are unemployed right now (I've been home with our 2 boys for 5 years and am trying to figure out my next career). So while it might not make sense for someone else to hoard points, I just cannot justify taking a vacation right now.

I found an article (http://travelsort.com/blog/tips-for-booking-award-tickets-to-the-maldives)that should help you.

roki - Thank you for your help. That is a lot of layovers, but whatever makes it work! I will look into getting United Points. One question, what do you think of the three chase cards/applications and strategy for them? In August 2012, I have gotten the CSP. What are you thoughts on how to time and liklihood of success with the Chase Hyatt AND UE cards? I think I may go ahead and apply the bf for the Hyatt card today to get in a Chase card for him on this rotation, too.

birdseye - I completely understand, and thank you, again! My parents drug me all over the world growing up on teachers' salaries without the help of any FF miles. I can only imagine the scarifies a family must make in order to travel and experience the world together, and I admire your continued want to do it when time and resources permit.

birdseye - Great article that I had not seen yet. Thank you! I guess I should consider Bali, too, huh? ;-) It's just that for years the Maldives has been IT. We'll see.

I'm thinking that if we were to leave from CDG (wouldn't be Heathrow) would BA be a better option? I am assuming that the fuel surcharges remain steep for flights originating overseas but didn't know if there was an NA discrimination factor involved in the fees. United continues to be a good bet for flights originating in Europe, though I think Delta may be better for the France ones, so I will continue to look into United miles.

I recall reading that the seaplane ticket from Male to the resorts in the Maldives are expensive. If I was planning a budget honeymoon, I think I would pick someplace easier to get to. My own was to Kauai, but if I was planning it today, I'm sure I would have much grander aspirations.

I recommend you go to Boarding Area (http://boardingarea.com/) and search the site for Maldives. You will find lots of blog entries like this one (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/milesquest/2011/05/10/trip-to-the-maldives-the-flights-part-1/). Or this one (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/theglobaltraveller/2009/07/how-to-get-to-maldives/). You may need to click on a blog article to see the little search box at the top right of the screen.

I have noticed that Delta charges much higher fees for award tickets originating in Europe than those originating in the US. I am not an expert on BA, but the bulk of the cost of a BA award ticket is the fuel surcharge, which you will pay even if you only connect in London. Sign up for a free BA account and do a search, and you will find out what the fees are.

I'm sure a trip to the Maldives is doable, I just recommend you do your research. And plan to earn the miles first, as that will be the hardest to book, especially when your travel dates will not be very flexible.

The Delta and United websites gave me error messages when searching for flights from Paris to Male. You'll need to call an agent. The British Airways site says 118,000 Avios + $1,041 for 2 ticket Paris to Male (or 59,000 Avios + $1,821.76). The AA website says 2 tickets Paris to Male is 80,000 AA miles + $1151.20 (Iberia might be cheaper but would require a phone call).

... seaplane ticket from Male to the resorts in the Maldives are expensive.

Post 24 in this thread mentions $480 plus taxes per person.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/1378536-park-hyatt-maldives-conrad-maldives.html

budget honeymoon

My trip report may help keep this topic in perspective:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-reports/1379962-detroit-honeymoon.html

Mia - Thank you. I have been following that thread. I laugh at your trip report, because, for the wedding I have been urging the same thing: Why not elope or just get married at the courthouse? We'll be just as much married and have far less headache and expenses given the dual citizenship/marriage aspects of the whole ordeal. If only there was a "point yourself to a great wedding" card available! haha!

...I laugh at your trip report...

Mission accomplished. Now back to our regular programming...

I actually just had an Air France ticket (ATL - IST), booked through Air France, that I convinced Delta to give me SkyMiles for because they are in the same alliance after a few emails back and forth.
You can EARN miles in any program in the alliance, regardless of which airline you are actually flying. If you go to the Delta website, it will have a chart that shows you which fare classes on Air France you can EARN on. (And how much - some are not at 100%)

However, when you REDEEM the miles, they all have to come out of the same airline's account, even though you can spend them on any of the airlines in the alliance.

The AA website says 2 tickets Paris to Male is 80,000 AA miles + $1151.20 (Iberia might be cheaper but would require a phone call).
You can sign up for a Qantas account to check Iberia availability. (When you redeem AA miles on BA, there is a huge fuel surcharge. There is no (or very small?) surcharge on Iberia or AA itself.)

Also, watch out for Delta. They charge an "international origination surcharge" if your award starts outside of the US. Can be a significant amount.

Thank you all for the suggestions and help! After reading the links that some of you sent me and the PMs, doing about 5 hours of reading on the forums and elsewhere and talking it over again with the bf, I think we may forgo the Maldives dream for the honeymoon and hope they don't disappear before we can make it there! (Since we will eventually be in Europe ... a topic that I am sure I will solicit some advice from you all on later... How do you keep this up from abroad?) I think it will make more sense to use Europe as a jumping point for the Maldives than the United States.

So, our new plan, and what I spent my time reading all about last night instead of sleeping (exhausting morning here at the office!) is Bali or Bora Bora. Bora Bora seems much more interesting to me from a honeymoon perspective. (Normally we are city people, or, as Mariott keeps telling me, Urban Explorers, but the tranquility of the ocean is what drew us to the Maldives in the first place and what Bora Bora offers.)

So here's my new plan after researching airfare routes, etc.:

Air:
AA from LAX to PPT
Whatever points we have on various to get to LAX.
Ferry from PPT to B.B. or maybe intraisland plane if prices are right.

Hotel:
1st night pay for a hotel in ppt.
nights 2-6 *try* to get enough to cover the IC Thal.
7/8 back in ppt (or could stay night 7 at IC if enough points.)

Here's my plan to get us there:
Air:
Apply for both AA cards each in December (could we apply earlier do you think?) = 200K total miles, enough for economy round trip.
Hotel:
My Chase Saph. 40K points into PC/IC points.
In Decem. apply for Chase saph. for bf - 40K points into PC/IC points.
Apply for both the Chase 80K PC cards (when could we do this as it's yet another Chase product, which would make it 3 for each of us... (he got the Chase Hyatt and I would like to apply for that myself.)
At a 50K redemption rate this would give us 4.8 nights of the 6/7. Hmmmm. Other suggestions are welcome here as to how to get the additional 100K points needed, pm or via this thread.

Also, the nights in PPT... I'd love suggestions on those. Maybe Hilton? Though that would take some more card-wrangling, I think, so we'd need to do an app. on one of us for a V.A. through B.o.A. for to transfer to 100K hilton points. Unfortunately the Hyatt nights are worthless in Tahiti/Bora Bora from what I can tell.

We'd like to do this in mid-June/early July if possible if we'd leave from the States OR leaving from Europe would put us at mid-August.

Final note (I know this is a lot!) Is there any way to free old AA miles? I have about 12,000 (not a lot I know) that have expired.

Again, THANK YOU ALL. I have spent what I feel like is days of my life reading these boards the last few weeks, and am little-by-little trying to put this all together and figure it out. All the help you can give, either via pm or here, is so greatly appreciated.

I would think it would be easier to build enough Hilton points for Bora Bora than Priority Club points. If you hold the free Hilton Honors Amex or the Hilton Surpass Amex, you get access to discounted rates for stays of 4 days (discount code AXON which must be redeemed by phone, a category 7 like Bora Bora would be 145,000 points for 4 nights). If you have silver status or better with Hilton (the Hilton Amex and regular Citi Hilton Visa comes with silver status, the newer Citi Hilton Honors Reserve card and Hilton Surpass Amex come with gold status) you can redeem at discounted rates posted here (http://www.hilton.com/en/hi/hotels/search/hhonors/hhonors_hrr_code_matrix.jhtml;jsessionid=RXPPWGGV3 QS3OCSGBJBOLYQ?showLinks=false).
So 6 nights at the Hilton Bora Bora Nui Resort = 225,000 points, and for a 5 night stay it is cheaper to use an AXON (145,000 pts) + 1 night (50,000 pts) for a total of 195,000 points. Keep in mind that Hilton points cannot be transferred between spouses, although you could book some nights from your account and some nights from his.

Current Hilton card bonuses can be found here (http://millionmilesecrets.com/credit-cards/hotel-credit-cards/). For Virgin Atlantic and Hawaiian miles cards convertible to Hilton points, look here (http://millionmilesecrets.com/credit-cards/airline-credit-cards/).

My observation about applying for Chase cards, is that most people can be automatically approved for 2 cards within a rolling 6 month window, and more than that will require a call to the reconsideration line. How many total cards they will give you depends on the length of your credit history, your income, and how much you are willing to divide the total credit limit they will give you between cards during reconsideration, but 4-6 cards open at a time is probably normal.

The general theory of credit card churning, as made popular by the Frugal Travel Guy, is that you should apply for multiple credit cards on one day, wait 90 days, and repeat. This is because credit inquiries made within the previous 90 days hurt your chance at gaining new credit the most, they think that lots of credit inquiries mean you might be desperate for money and at risk of defaulting. Sometimes I simply apply for a new card every month or two, which also works. But when applying for lots of cards in a short period of time, sooner or later a bank will turn you down. Also consider how long it will take you to meet the minimum spend on the cards you take out.

If you have already applied for 3 cards in August, I would wait until November to apply for more. My recommendation for a churn:

Citi Aadvantage Visa x2 = 100,000 AA miles
Hilton Amex = 50,000 Hilton points
Virgin Atlantic Visa = 100,000 Hilton points

This gives you enough for 4 nights in Bora Bora, and if your fiance could get approved for the same cards, he would also be able to book up to 4 nights in Bora Bora. If you get a card that gives gold Hilton status, you would also get free breakfast, free internet, and probably a free upgrade. The cards that give gold status have annual fees that are not waived, Hilton Surpass Amex and Citi Hilton Reserve, so you could choose to get the Surpass instead of the free Hilton Honors Amex. Citi allows 2 credit card applications within 60 or 90 days, and I'm guessing you will use that for AA cards initially. If one of you got gold status, you could book a stay from the other person's account in the name of the person with gold status, which should allow you to use the benefits for the whole stay. The longer your stay though, the less likely you are to get an upgrade. Making a note on the reservation that it is for your honeymoon should also help your chances of an upgrade.

Even if you both got the Priority Club Visa and transferred Ultimate Rewards points, you would only have enough for 4 nights at the Intercontinental. By going with Hilton, you get more nights, and spread out your card applications between banks better.

Thanks to Hilton Surpass, last year we stayed 4 nights in the Hilton Venice in a suite, with free breakfast and internet, and at checkout the bill was $0. We have been charged for resort fees by SPG on award stays, and city taxes by a Holiday Inn Express in Rome on an otherwise free stay.

I don't know if you can reinstate expired miles, but it can't hurt to call the airline and ask. The worst thing they can say is no.

I'm actually planning a similar trip and here's what I've found out:

1) The Intercontinental Thallaso in Bora Bora will almost certainly upgrade you to an over water bungalow for free. Or you can pay ~$150 to confirm it in advance per night. Don't feel shy to negotiate the rate or offer to pay only 2 out of 4 stays.

2) If you're booking at the Hilton, expect to pay to upgrade to an over-water bungalow. Having Gold status is very important because it will greatly reduce the rate of the cash upgrade fee. And it will get you free breakfast ($30) and free internet (which you shouldn't use in Paradise, but I know I will!)

You can get Gold status for the 1st year with the AMEX Surpass or as long as you have the card with the Citi Hilton Reserve.

3) Search for availability on Air Tahiti Nui using expertflyer to get a sense of the availability. I'd suggest booking as soon as the booking window opens 330 days in advance.

4) Consider staying in Moorea to save money. It is only ~$20 by ferry from PPT to Moorea and the Hilton Moorea has more availability than Bora Bora. Expect to pay ~$440 per person from PPT to Bora Bora. But Bora Bora is a completely different experience.

5) Activities are expensive. More expensive in Bora Bora, and slightly less expensive in Moorea.

6) Hilton in Bora Bora may not have availability at first, but keep checking since it changes. You may have to piece together the stay i.e. book 1 night and then add another when it is available.

7) You can use the free night certificate from the Priority club hotel at the IC in Bora Bora, but that won't be possible if you want to travel in June next year.

8) If you want to spend 4 nights in Bora Bora, you could each get the Chase Priority Club card and book 1 night each using 50K Priority Club points. And you could use Hilton points for the remaining 2 nights.

Safe travels!

Everyone thank you for your in-depth replies! (And MMS, I enjoyed reading your recaps on your blog, BTW!) It is November, and the next application time is upon us, so I wanted to revive this thread given the new developments in our lives and the credit card world in case anyone may have any more advice for us before we jump into November applications.

I have been DILIGENTLY reading the forum between my initial post and now, and this what I have come up with:

As a reminder, this is the current state of our credit cards:
Me - Good/excellent credit with a 10-year credit history.

Current cards:
- 10-year-old Edward Jones Worldpoints - low APY and occassionally carry a balance. No real points to speak of but keeping for the credit history building, credit line, and ability to carry a balance if need be
- Delta Gold AmEx - since February/March 2012
- Chase Sapphire - approved August 2012
- U.S. Barclay's Card - approved August 2012
- U.S. Bank Card - approved August 2012

Him - Average credit with a 2-3 year history.
Current cards:
- 2-3 year old BoA branded AmEx. - Their average, basic one. He'll keep for credit history.
- Delta Gold AmEx - since July 2012
- U.S. Barclay's Card - approved August 2012
- Chase Hyatt - approved August 23, 2012

Our combined monthly spend is about 1.5K. I am STILL trying to figure out how to pay our rent to get it to count towards the spend as our landlord is insistent on BoA to BoA transfers. If we could add rent, our spend would be closer to $2.5-3K/month. One option would be a card that allowed for bill pay. Any suggestions on this??

In November, I am thinking to do the following:
Me

Apply for the Chase Hyatt card
Apply for the Hawaiian/Virgin Atlantic BoA cards for Hilton conversion

Him
Apply for the Chase Sapphire Preferred Card (I'll probably wait until December to apply for this so as to put a 3 month gap between this an his Chase Hyatt card.)
Apply for the Hilton AmEx
Apply for the double Citi Visa/AmEx cards

I would love to apply for the double Citi Visa/AmEx cards for myself, too, but I worry about reaching the combined $12K in spending in 4 months between the two of us on the four cards (in addition to the other spends.) On the other hand, the miles would post to our accounts at different times, which would be unfortunate for booking reasons. Suggestions here are really welcome.

I'd like to add some more cards into the mix that have no or low spends (like, $100) but I do not see many of those appearing on the forums lately. I'd also like to add in the Chase 80K PC cards, but I think that should wait for the spring applications. What do you all think?

Thanks in advance, everyone! :-)