US Airways Dividend Miles - Why do you actually have to fly on mileage runs?

I have been wondering why you actually have to fly to get the PQMs. It seems that if US allowed you to book and pay for a flight, you should get PQMs regardless of whether you actually take the flight. If you don't actually fly, US has your money and when you don't show up, they can maybe use your seat if the flight is oversold anyway. Am I missing something obvious?

I have been wondering why you actually have to fly to get the PQMs. It seems that if US allowed you to book and pay for a flight, you should get PQMs regardless of whether you actually take the flight. If you don't actually fly, US has your money and when you don't show up, they can maybe use your seat if the flight is oversold anyway. Am I missing something obvious?

See this thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-discussion/1297881-why-do-mileage-runners-actually-have-fly.html). I had the same question (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17740933-post18.html) .... I did get some feedback that was useful and non-obvious (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17743183-post21.html).

See this thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-discussion/1297881-why-do-mileage-runners-actually-have-fly.html). I had the same question (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17740933-post18.html) .... I did get some feedback that was useful and non-obvious (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17743183-post21.html).

Some good info. However, since US sells status and PQMs, some of the argument goes out the window.

You can buy CP right off the bat for $4k or any fraction thereof to meet either a desired tier. Depending on how many miles are needed, US does make it easy to do a MR without parking your butt on a plane. You miss out on the RDMs though, but for some, that might not be a bad tradeoff considering the time saved.

Some good info. However, since US sells status and PQMs, some of the argument goes out the window.

You can buy CP right off the bat for $4k or any fraction thereof to meet either a desired tier. Depending on how many miles are needed, US does make it easy to do a MR without parking your butt on a plane. You miss out on the RDMs though, but for some, that might not be a bad tradeoff considering the time saved.

You are right about that, which makes this thread now specific to US, since we at least have an answer to the question I asked at the end of my interminable post in that other thread: "... isn't there some point at which my ticket purchases, and absent my time, so that the same seat can be re-sold, worth more to the airline?"

Yes, $4K/100,000 miles = a 4cpm 100,000 mile passenger-less MR to be CP!

US allows it, after a fashion. All we are doing is haggling about the price (http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/03/07/haggling/).

It looks to me as though buying up to preferred only gives you status until the next February, while flying the miles gives you status for an additional year. I assume there must come a time during the year when US switches and purchasing the miles gets you the extra year. When does that happen? If it happens in September, it's obviously better (and cheaper if you already have miles) than if it happens January 1.

October 1, I believe.

It looks to me as though buying up to preferred only gives you status until the next February, while flying the miles gives you status for an additional year. I assume there must come a time during the year when US switches and purchasing the miles gets you the extra year. When does that happen? If it happens in September, it's obviously better (and cheaper if you already have miles) than if it happens January 1.

I'm thinking it's September or October. I remember seeing that it went to the following 2013 late last year.

I'm debating buying up to CP depending on what I end up with at the end of the year.

I'm debating buying up to CP depending on what I end up with at the end of the year.

If you can buy up in October and pay only the difference between the miles you've already accumulated that year and 100,000, and still get the benefit for 15 or 16 months, that's pretty good.

The sweet spot to me seems to be when you have 25001 or 50001 miles already, and are buying status through the next year and the year after. At 25001, the cost is $2499 for the equivalent of 75,000 status miles -- or 3.332 cents per mile. At 50,001, the extra cost is $1499 for the equivalent of 50,000 status miles -- or 2.998 cents per mile. So, I could see stopping at 50k and crediting to another program once you get there, and instead buying up to CP.

All that said, I really only consider mileage running to get to 50k, not once I'm over it. Once you're already *Gold, I think there's a considerable question whether the extra value for CP is worth $1500. It sounds like the upgrade certs aren't really too easy to use, but if you fly to Europe a lot, then definitely the certs alone are worth it. Being higher in the queue for domestic upgrades is nice if you travel on very elite heavy routes -- although I assume that buy-up CPs are going to be behind those who actually have over 100k BIS miles. The ability to change award tickets is nice too, but I doubt I would save $1500.

If you can buy up in October and pay only the difference between the miles you've already accumulated that year and 100,000, and still get the benefit for 15 or 16 months, that's pretty good.

The sweet spot to me seems to be when you have 25001 or 50001 miles already, and are buying status through the next year and the year after. At 25001, the cost is $2499 for the equivalent of 75,000 status miles -- or 3.332 cents per mile. At 50,001, the extra cost is $1499 for the equivalent of 50,000 status miles -- or 2.998 cents per mile. So, I could see stopping at 50k and crediting to another program once you get there, and instead buying up to CP.

All that said, I really only consider mileage running to get to 50k, not once I'm over it. Once you're already *Gold, I think there's a considerable question whether the extra value for CP is worth $1500. It sounds like the upgrade certs aren't really too easy to use, but if you fly to Europe a lot, then definitely the certs alone are worth it. Being higher in the queue for domestic upgrades is nice if you travel on very elite heavy routes -- although I assume that buy-up CPs are going to be behind those who actually have over 100k BIS miles. The ability to change award tickets is nice too, but I doubt I would save $1500.

I think you have it pretty well pegged. The CP certs are the big thing. Here are three possibilities:


You have a partner who will make a leisure trip with you and has some flexibility, isn't too finicky about which city, and can handle some cold weather.
You go back and forth to Europe a lot.
Neither.


If the first, then the buy-up pays you back at least $2,000 (4 Envoy upgrades at $500 each). Even at a valuation of $350 (allowing for uncertainty or other stuff), you are already close to $ for $.

If the second, more complicated, because not clear you will get to use the +1 aspect, since US insists that both parties have to have the same itinerary and, if you are back and forth for business, this may not give the same flexibility as per point 1. So then you are almost positive you will get to use the certs at some point (since you have so many trips), but probably only for yourself. Now one is valuing them at more like $800 to $1200.

If the third, you have to be wanting those domestic upgrades bad and flying with +1s or +2s and/or on TC routes (both where Gold might not get it for you). With 100% bonus instead of 50% bonus, I would figure an extra 25,000 RDMs across 50,000 BIS, so what's that worth, another $375?

In the end, I think that the math can eventually justify the buy-up in all but extreme cases. Still, it's a fair chunk of change to throw down, and sort of takes the fun out of doing it on OPM.

I was going to hit 75k easily (already have 70k booked), and likely 85k miles by year's end, so I was debating going for CP.

I'm likely going to get married next year, so I'm thinking the companion certs would be nice to have on one of my business trips to Europe.

I was going to hit 75k easily (already have 70k booked), and likely 85k miles by year's end, so I was debating going for CP.

I'm likely going to get married next year, so I'm thinking the companion certs would be nice to have on one of my business trips to Europe.

First, congrats.

Second, remember that 85K is where Special Dividends allows you to create a Silver out of nothing at all.

First, congrats.

Second, remember that 85K is where Special Dividends allows you to create a Silver out of nothing at all.

And that was the reason I was considering waiting until I crossed that before buying up. I'm not sure that buying up before then would get me the special dividend once I got the actual BIS PQMs to qualify for it.

And that was the reason I was considering waiting until I crossed that before buying up. I'm not sure that buying up before then would get me the special dividend once I got the actual BIS PQMs to qualify for it.

It won't. Has to be PQMs.

. . . However, since US sells status and PQMs, some of the argument goes out the window. . .

No.



Terms & Conditions (https://membership.usairways.com/en-US/dividendmiles/preferred/buy-up-to-preferred.html)

*Price includes federal excise tax of 7.5%. Between January and May, pricing is determined by your current or previous year’s Preferred-qualifying activity, whichever is greater. Between June and December, pricing is determined by your current year’s Preferred qualifying activity, which may result in a pricing increase. Preferred status purchased through the 'buy up to Preferred' program is non-refundable, and purchase does not earn you Preferred-qualifying miles or Preferred-qualifying segments. Program is subject to all Dividend Miles terms and conditions.

(emphasis added)

Well, if you're willing to engage in some questionable practices, YOU don't have to fly to get the miles. Consider the following scenario (pay close attention to the articles and pronouns):

YOU check-in online. Print YOUR boarding pass. Save an electronic copy of your boarding pass. There might be an error to correct in YOUR name and it would need to be printed again.

With no luggage (MR, right?) there's no need to check-in at the counter where they might check YOUR ID.

Clear TSA with ***A*** boarding pass and MATCHING ID.

Board the plane with YOUR boarding pass (no ID required).

Note that at no time are you required to present YOUR ID.

There are some fairly obvious potential downsides, and it would be especially unwise for your "doppleganger" to be of the opposite sex. But this is the "Security Theatre" of airport security.

(Use at your own risk. No warranty expressed or implied. YMMV)

I don't really understand all the bolded words and stuff. I think the upshot is that someone else is flying using a boarding pass with my name on it. If I'm understanding it, someone has to fly.

Apart from all the bolded words and stuff, it seems to me there is a much simpler way to accomplish that -- my proxy buys a refundable ticket to clear security. I clear with my BP, give it to him, leave, and he refunds his ticket. My proxy gets a free flight, and I get the miles.

It's brilliant, except for the part about (1) being fraud, (2) the massive clusteryouknowwhat if there are irregular ops and the proxy has to go outside security at any point, (3) getting ff privileges revoked, and (4) someone getting arrested.

Maybe the bolded pronouns avoids some of these problems. I'm not smart enough to understand it, but I think I'm smart enough to know this is a spectacularly bad idea.

I don't really understand all the bolded words and stuff. I think the upshot is that someone else is flying using a boarding pass with my name on it. If I'm understanding it, someone has to fly.

Apart from all the bolded words and stuff, it seems to me there is a much simpler way to accomplish that -- my proxy buys a refundable ticket to clear security. I clear with my BP, give it to him, leave, and he refunds his ticket. My proxy gets a free flight, and I get the miles.

It's brilliant, except for the part about (1) being fraud, (2) the massive clusteryouknowwhat if there are irregular ops and the proxy has to go outside security at any point, (3) getting ff privileges revoked, and (4) someone getting arrested.

Maybe the bolded pronouns avoids some of these problems. I'm not smart enough to understand it, but I think I'm smart enough to know this is a spectacularly bad idea.
Actually it's simpler the other way. Your way both of you have to go to the airport. The other way only the person flying has to go. The part you missed is where you edit the BP and put the other person's name on it.

Not suggesting someone should do this or agreeing with the idea, just clarifying what was being said.

Actually it's simpler the other way. Your way both of you have to go to the airport. The other way only the person flying has to go. The part you missed is where you edit the BP and put the other person's name on it.

Not suggesting someone should do this or agreeing with the idea, just clarifying what was being said.

Ah. Gotcha. I think that would be a federal crime.

See this thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-discussion/1297881-why-do-mileage-runners-actually-have-fly.html). I had the same question (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17740933-post18.html) .... I did get some feedback that was useful and non-obvious (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17743183-post21.html).

I found nothing in those links that adequately answers the OP's question.

Since airlines already allow mileage runs, it's seems that it would actually be a better idea to allow ticketed pax not to fly and still earn miles because (1) the airline would realize the revenue without burning fuel to transport the pax on a MR and (2) the airline can still sell that unused seat to a stand-by pax or use that empty seat to prevent an IDB situation due to overbooking.


That said, I'm searching for an old thread that gave a very good answer to the OP's question. I just can't find that thread -- and I can't remember the answer. :(

It's somewhat explained by frequent flyer awards being determined by distance, but fares are not. So there may be routes that earn a lot of miles, but for competitive reasons have a low price, giving a good miles/$ return.

In order to avoid effectively selling EQMs at that rate, they can at least minimize the effect by requiring you to actually fly the segments.. Although it may not make sense in the short run, they're looking at how future behavior will be affected. Why buy miles or buy up to elite when there are cheaper options? And there'd be more elites running around too, which will devalue the benefits.

And a mistake fare could be a disaster, like the $450 first class trans-Pacific flights out Burma recently. They'd be flying an empty F cabin for the rest of the year.

See this thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-discussion/1297881-why-do-mileage-runners-actually-have-fly.html). I had the same question (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17740933-post18.html) .... I did get some feedback that was useful and non-obvious (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17743183-post21.html).

I found nothing in those links that adequately answers the OP's question.

Since airlines already allow mileage runs, it's seems that it would actually be a better idea to allow ticketed pax not to fly and still earn miles because (1) the airline would realize the revenue without burning fuel to transport the pax on a MR and (2) the airline can still sell that unused seat to a stand-by pax or use that empty seat to prevent an IDB situation due to overbooking.


That said, I'm searching for an old thread that gave a very good answer to the OP's question. I just can't find that thread -- and I can't remember the answer. :(

I agree with you. The links were supposed to indicate that (a) I agree with the OP, too, that it's an interesting question; (b) that it has been discussed; and (c) that there was at least one effort to justify the practice that I thought was reasonably informative and that others might find convincing.

I hope you can find the thread that you remember, because I too would like to see other answers, but I doubt that we shall find the answer because, as US FTs, we know that the ability to purchase status on US is functionally equivalent to allowing MRs where you don't fly:

Some good info. However, since US sells status and PQMs, some of the argument goes out the window.

You can buy CP right off the bat for $4k or any fraction thereof to meet either a desired tier. Depending on how many miles are needed, US does make it easy to do a MR without parking your butt on a plane. You miss out on the RDMs though, but for some, that might not be a bad tradeoff considering the time saved.

You are right about that, which makes this thread now specific to US, since we at least have an answer to the question I asked at the end of my interminable post in that other thread: "... isn't there some point at which my ticket purchases, and absent my time, so that the same seat can be re-sold, worth more to the airline?"

Yes, $4K/100,000 miles = a 4cpm 100,000 mile passenger-less MR to be CP!

US allows it, after a fashion. All we are doing is haggling about the price (http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/03/07/haggling/).

Just for another perspective, I'm going to make CP today and I put in the seat time. Why shouldn't everyone have to put in the seat time in coach to reach the same level?

If you buy up you might have the status but if someone has actually flown more than you they will beat you out for an upgrade. If you don't actually fly the miles but still get the PQM how will they determine a tie breaker fairly?

...I'm going to make CP today ...

Congratulations, and welcome ^. I hope you'd be as happy with the service (from frontline folks who know we fly a lot and cut us a break now and then, as well as the CP desk) as I have been over the years.

Just for another perspective, I'm going to make CP today and I put in the seat time. Why shouldn't everyone have to put in the seat time in coach to reach the same level?

If you buy up you might have the status but if someone has actually flown more than you they will beat you out for an upgrade. If you don't actually fly the miles but still get the PQM how will they determine a tie breaker fairly?

Buy-ups don't actually get the PQMs. So they are behind in competition for upgrades, as you say. Thus buying up is not exactly like a participation-free mileage run. You lose the ties with the BIS folks (and welcome aboard, by the way!) Nor do you get the Special Dividends.

But, CP is CP (or Silver is Silver, and so on); and the ability to buy it is what I meant by saying (above) that this is "functionally equivalent" to what would be accomplished by a participation-free MR.

(Also, I hope that by the time you made Gold, you were not putting in that much coach time, at least domestically. Now, on the TAs, yes, and tell me about it....!)

I wonder how UGs are decided among bought up CPs. For example, if there's one seat left and two remaining CPs, do they look at BIS miles?

I assume the answer is yes, and for some part of the year it's the prior BIS miles and for some portion of the year it's the current year BIS mles. My guess is that early in the year, a bought up CP who bought up from 50k is at a disadvantage to one that bought up from 25k, but I really have no idea. Just guessing.

Isn't the look-back frame the past 12 mos. from the flight date?

I wonder how UGs are decided among bought up CPs. For example, if there's one seat left and two remaining CPs, do they look at BIS miles?

I assume the answer is yes, and for some part of the year it's the prior BIS miles and for some portion of the year it's the current year BIS mles. My guess is that early in the year, a bought up CP who bought up from 50k is at a disadvantage to one that bought up from 25k, but I really have no idea. Just guessing.

Yes. As a buy-up CP last year, I had priority over Platinum (because I was CP) but I had little to no priority over other CPs unless they were buy-up as well. They base it on your PQM. I was in effect a very low CP.

Buy-ups don't actually get the PQMs. So they are behind in competition for upgrades, as you say. Thus buying up is not exactly like a participation-free mileage run. You lose the ties with the BIS folks (and welcome aboard, by the way!) Nor do you get the Special Dividends.

But, CP is CP (or Silver is Silver, and so on); and the ability to buy it is what I meant by saying (above) that this is "functionally equivalent" to what would be accomplished by a participation-free MR.

(Also, I hope that by the time you made Gold, you were not putting in that much coach time, at least domestically. Now, on the TAs, yes, and tell me about it....!)

I only recently started getting regular upgrades on my main flights. They are overloaded with FFs, monday morning 7am PIT to PHX, it took quite a while to start beating out those folks. The return flight has been good to me however!

Isn't the look-back frame the past 12 mos. from the flight date?

Sounds reasonable. I don't know.

I think that some posters here make clear the answer.



Pax fly for one reason -- to get from point A to point B. That's how an airline provides a service & makes its money.
The reason a pax flys is irrelevant to the airline's bottom line, but every airline ( necessarily) wants to develop a business relationship with their pax. Hence airlines create loyalty programs ( with inherent perks/incentives ) to induce pax to fly with them.
A MR is simply an alternative strategy to achieve the T&C laid out in an airline's FF program.
Likewise PQMs are the "reward metric" which define BIS travel & establishes the qualifying parameters for elite membership.
So it's pretty obvious as to why US requires a pax who purchases a ticket to actually fly an itinerary & why one can't simply purchase the seat and be a no show who receives FF/PQM miles. If you're not there to fly the purchased itinerary, you're not gonna get the PQMs.
Prior to US allowing one to "buy up" to a desired elite tier, the only way you're gonna make your desired elite level is to fly BIS to do so.
The fact that US monetizes the purchase of elite tiers is a good thing as it gives FFers an alternative means of achieving their elite tier goals. MRs remain very much a part of this strategy.




^ to Ikar for laying out the cost metrics of a cash buy up as this is a good way for folks to decide between a MR or simply forking over $$ for the elite tier.

Once again, US does offer we FFers good alternatives. But it's a fallacy of logic to imply that simply purchasing a ticket and handing over the cash entitles one to the PQMs. Not so sure that I'd ever try to alter identification for a flight for the sake of PQMs :confused: given the implications of traveling within a federally-regulated air transit system & the fact that if the ruse is discovered the airline could terminate your DM miles membership and void your FF miles ( it's all in the T&C of the program ).

Barry

Isn't the look-back frame the past 12 mos. from the flight date?

As explained to me by multiple GA,s, this is correct. However, I have conflicting reports as to whether this is BIS or PQM, which with CC and GS, can be significantly different. Anecdotal evidence suggests PQM.

You'll get a million justifications in this thread but you won't actually get a good answer. If I were running US (and I could surely do some parts of their strategy better than they do), I'd have a simple mileage run fee. Find a great MR fare? Great, either fly it or pay a 10% fee and we'll pretend you did. Find a way to beat the system? Good for you, now hand over lots of free money to me that has very little marginal expenses. It'd be a treasure trove of data too about which customers value this stuff. And you'd great a great sub-world of people finding deals and lining up to give US money for nothing. And this would cost almost nothing to implement because it builds off the current fare structure.