US Airways Dividend Miles - To what degree is US trying to sell our possible upgrades?

One data point, but...

My gf and I are flying PHL-LAX in three days (8/24). (I'm GP and she's on my res.) Flightstats.com is showing F9 for our flight and is showing at least 18 seats still available for the entire flight. According to the US seat map, there are only three pax seated in exit rows -- including the two of us.

I did not yet receive an upgrade-status email today, so I called US. The agent said that no upgrades are available yet, but I can use miles to upgrade immediately if I like. (Yeah, nice try...)

However, one can buy a non-refundable F seat on this flight for just $459 right now. Just three days out! (And just $210 in coach!)

OK, I understand that VX's entry into this market is clearly bringing prices down A LOT -- and I'm quite pleased with that outcome. But come on. If there are at least 9 open F seats at the GP window and US still won't release two F seats while trying to sell the F seats at low prices, what's the point of the upgrade window in the first place?

As with any other upgrade threads, how many seats are available for upgrade in the low award bucket? There could be a whole F cabin available for sale, but if seats aren't available in O inventory, you won't get upgraded.

but I can use miles to upgrade immediately if I like. (Yeah, nice try...)


This is interesting. Usually the upgrade seats and mileage upgrade seats both come from the same inventory, O.

If you see seats in the low award bucket, I'd call back.

One data point, but...

My gf and I are flying PHL-LAX in three days (8/24). (I'm GP and she's on my res.) Flightstats.com is showing F9 for our flight and is showing at least 18 seats still available for the entire flight. According to the US seat map, there are only three pax seated in exit rows -- including the two of us.

I did not yet receive an upgrade-status email today, so I called US. The agent said that no upgrades are available yet, but I can use miles to upgrade immediately if I like. (Yeah, nice try...)

However, one can buy a non-refundable F seat on this flight for just $459 right now. Just three days out! (And just $210 in coach!)

OK, I understand that VX's entry into this market is clearly bringing prices down A LOT -- and I'm quite pleased with that outcome. But come on. If there are at least 9 open F seats at the GP window and US still won't release two F seats while trying to sell the F seats at low prices, what's the point of the upgrade window in the first place?

I can't argue at what you are saying. I think that I said something similar some months back, but having just done PHL-LAX-PHL, I know what you are talking about ....

Lots of open F seats
A real reluctance to release seats to preferreds (on the way back, did not clear 'til Silver window) ...
... even when there are not that many preferreds to "service" (I could see this from watching exit rows and preferred seats in Y, and, at OLCI, I was still given chance to switch seats, so some must have been open at T-less than 24 hrs)
Fairly low "rack prices" for F

So it looks like the thing is fixed to sell seats out from under preferreds, but on the basis of this and a half-dozen similar flights/situations recently, I don't have the sense that the F seats are being sold in great number. As I mentioned a couple days ago in another thread, moving from gate to gate in CLT the other day, you could have believed from the red signs that the main destination served by there was "First Class seats available."

As with any other upgrade threads, how many seats are available for upgrade in the low award bucket? There could be a whole F cabin available for sale, but if seats aren't available in O inventory, you won't get upgraded.

Yes, of course. That's really my point. US seems to be leaving a lot of F seats out of the O inventory in hopes of selling them. I have no problem with US trying to sell F seats, but the whole concept of level-specific upgrade windows seems silly if US is holding so many F seats for sale.

This thread is encouraging me to wait until T-7 or closer to purchase F seats and get the COS bonus instead of advance buying Y and sweating out an upgrade. But maybe that's exactly what they're hoping FF's do.

There's zero reason for US to release F seats before it has to. One IRROPS on an inbound from Europe and however many premium pax will need to be rebooked. And, people do buy last minute F.

On the other hand, what is OP going to do? Refuse the UG just because it's handed to him at the gate?

This thread is encouraging me to wait until T-7 or closer to purchase F seats and get the COS bonus instead of advance buying Y and sweating out an upgrade. But maybe that's exactly what they're hoping FF's do.

Nah. I checked non-refundable F on the same route, PHL-LAX, for a month out and it's actually about $40 cheaper.

Here's my theory on what's happening. VX is putting a serious dent in US's ability to quickly sell out this route (as it used to). (But it's not like the flights are leaving half-full either, so it's sill profitable for US and cheaper for us. ^) Yet perhaps US's upgrade machine is still using the same programming algorithms used before VX's entry into this market? That would explain the UG's happening at the Silver window, at least...

Interestingly, I've been reliably getting upgrades on PHL-LAX at the seven day CP window. Much improved over earlier this year (and I just got upgraded today for one next week).

There are definitely fewer elites this year. I was CP last year and GP this year and my upgrade percentage hasn't been drastically lowered.

Last night (Saturday), I was sitting in PHX waiting for my 7pm departure to LAX. When I heard the agent at the next gate over hawking $100 upgrades to first to all comers for PHX-PDX.

I think that's a pretty decent price, but I would not be happy about losing an upgrade to this kind of gate sale. Delta only does this on flights to Hawaii, which has no elite upgrades anyway. On other domestic destinations when Delta experiments with gate sales of upgrades, it has to be from a "K" fare, which is an expensive fare bucket.

Last night (Saturday), I was sitting in PHX waiting for my 7pm departure to LAX. When I heard the agent at the next gate over hawking $100 upgrades to first to all comers for PHX-PDX.

I think that's a pretty decent price, but I would not be happy about losing an upgrade to this kind of gate sale. Delta only does this on flights to Hawaii, which has no elite upgrades anyway. On other domestic destinations when Delta experiments with gate sales of upgrades, it has to be from a "K" fare, which is an expensive fare bucket.

US is only supposed to do this after all the elites have cleared the upgrade list. I have once or twice over the years seen the computer mess up and skip an elite but always seen the elite get their upgrade at the gate for free when that's been announced. Once my fiance had gotten skipped and when the announcement was made, another passenger beat him to the desk, but the GA refunded the other passenger's upgrade fee and gave the Mr his comp upgrade instead. I've no doubt that glitches happen but when you're dealing with that many upgrades on a daily basis, I don't think it's ever going to be 100% (I work in IT and I know better than to trust any computer system to be 100%). But I do trust that in the vast majority of situations, it works as it's expected to, and that selling a cheapie upgrade at the gate when an elite has not been upgraded is a pretty rare occurence.

I am a little concerned about the people that upgrade with miles far in advance of ther flight date. My friend (who is SP) uses miles to upgrade a month out just to ensure the upgrade. I am GP and I am willing to wait for the sweeps because I usually get the upgrade. But, admittedly, there are fewer F seats available to preferred members as a result of this practice.

I am a little concerned about the people that upgrade with miles far in advance of ther flight date.

They are "paying" for the FC seat with miles. Anyone with DM miles can do the same, just as anyone can buy a FC seat with money. The free upgrade comes behind those who pay for the seat up front, not counting those who upgrade at a discount when seats are available after all elites have been upgraded.

Jim

I am a little concerned about the people that upgrade with miles far in advance of ther flight date. My friend (who is SP) uses miles to upgrade a month out just to ensure the upgrade. I am GP and I am willing to wait for the sweeps because I usually get the upgrade. But, admittedly, there are fewer F seats available to preferred members as a result of this practice.

Why are you concerned about this? This is a legitimate use of miles and is a way for non-elites or low-level elites to trump high elites where they really, really want that upgrade.

I did this a couple years back on an anniversary trip with Mrs. ITRADE to Las Vegas. My miles; my prerogative.

That being said, the mileage upgrade game is no longer a freebie. With the required $$$ copay, its not nearly as appetizing as before.

Yeah if someone values the domestic upgrade enough to put miles down for it, they're far more entitled to that seat than I am, because I don't want to spend my miles on that. They're just using a different currency to pay for it, and someone who's willing to pay is always going to be more entitled than someone who only wants it if it's free, regardless of the currency.

I am a little concerned about the people that upgrade with miles far in advance of ther flight date. My friend (who is SP) uses miles to upgrade a month out just to ensure the upgrade. I am GP and I am willing to wait for the sweeps because I usually get the upgrade. But, admittedly, there are fewer F seats available to preferred members as a result of this practice.

A single experience to be sure, and perhaps idiosyncratic, but in the run-up to a family affair TC in June, I wanted to ensure an upgrade, and tried to upgrade by burning miles. But, and in spite of the fact that there were still numerous seats for sale, US would not take my miles. They preferred, evidently, to hold the FC inventory for potential sale.

Come the CP window, I figured, "okay, enough with that," did nothing (always a favorite non-activity) and ended up scoring the needed seats without using the miles. Go figure. Anyhow, works against the thesis that US is pushing miles-users ahead of preferreds; and, as someone else points out above, for the non-elites, the "convenience fees" are moving things away from low-ball sell-offs.

It could just have been due to the fare bucket mileage upgrades come from and timing. Certainly from US' perspective someone paying $$ for FC trumps someone paying miles trumps someone wanting the free elite upgrade. Just be thankful that US doesn't offer the upgrade at checkin for whatever the going rate is ahead of elite free upgrades (so far).

Jim

No doubt about it. Just saying that if they were going gangbusters so that "someone paying miles trumps someone wanting the free elite upgrade," then the sort of thing I was reporting wouldn't/shouldn't be happening. Not saying that the "so far" will last forever, but I think it is holding for the moment.

but they aren't supposed to Gate Sell an upgrade to F when there is a preferred on the upgrade standby list. That's what they did to me on friday.... letter to customer service goes out tomorrow.