Southwest Rapid Rewards - BS boarding etiquette

Sorry if this question has been adressed before; however, a Forum search did not reveal it has, at least recently.

If you are traveling in Business Select and making a connection, what is the boarding etiquette if your connecting flight has already begun boarding when you arrive at the gate?

Can you go directly to the GA and, in a sense, jump in line since your number is going to be lower than anyone boarding at that moment?

Can you go directly to the GA and, in a sense, jump in line since your number is going to be higher than anyone barding at that moment?

Yes. Although I would get in the back of the line that is currently boarding.

I would just up to the gate agent and see what they want you to do. Often they will just let you board right then. I have seen lots of people do it and don't feel like its disrespectful or anything (you had a higher boarding number and just got there late). If it causes a high slowdown some people might be mad, but I have never seen that before. Usually the gate agent will just look at your boarding pass and let you on.

If I arrive late or my connecting flight arrives late, I immediately go to the GA and board. I usually have A30 and below, obviously 15 and below when I'm on a BS ticket. I've never had anyone question it before.

I had a business select ticket one time and landed early enough to get on a previous flight that had already begun boarding. At the gate they printed me out a new ticket which had a C-number, but it also said business select on it. The gate agent walked me to the front of the boarding line (which was at the beginning of the B's).

It also helps to look harried and loudly apologize for having to rush since you just arrived via another flight. Everyone will be fine.

I personally have no problem doing this whether BS or otherwise. If my boarding number is close to 30 or 60 often times I'll wait until my "chute" empties out then get up from my seat and board. I don't think I'd have the stones to do it in the middle of a group of 30 passengers boarding the A/C.

This is why the boarding process is crap. Plus people jump all the time and the agents never ask them to wait. I had A26 the other day, guy standing in front of me covering up his card had A 35. Happens almost all the time. Status on SWA has very little value.

This is why the boarding process is crap.
Please define "this".
Plus people jump all the time and the agents never ask them to wait.
After my last flight (and I fly very infrequently) I wrote a snail-mail letter to WN to let them know that I appreciated that the agent enforced the boarding order, so I wouldn't say never.
I had A26 the other day, guy standing in front of me covering up his card had A 35. Happens almost all the time. Status on SWA has very little value.
If you saw it, why didn't you point it out? There's nothing like a good public shaming. Why didn't you stand in front of him?

If you saw it, why didn't you point it out? There's nothing like a good public shaming. Why didn't you stand in front of him?

^^

This is why the boarding process is crap. Plus people jump all the time and the agents never ask them to wait. I had A26 the other day, guy standing in front of me covering up his card had A 35. Happens almost all the time. Status on SWA has very little value.

Worth looking at what easyJet do? Just 3 queues - priority (paid), priority (young children and disabled), everyone else. No numbers, no other confusion.

That said, easyJet, who originally modelled themselves on SWA, will introduce allocated seating next month.

Neil

That certainly would be a step backward.

If you saw it, why didn't you point it out? There's nothing like a good public shaming. Why didn't you stand in front of him?

Generally people are asking each other what their numbers are to make sure they are in the right place.

If you saw the #, you should have asked what # he was and then said "Oh...I should be in front of you" while getting in your numeric place.

No muss no fuss.

J

This is why the boarding process is crap. Plus people jump all the time and the agents never ask them to wait.

I almost never see this in the A20-A35 range on my short-haul flights. OTOH, it happens frequently in the FlyBy lane at OAK, but those people are sent to the regular line. I think they learn, but there are always newbies who choose the short line either hoping it will work or unable to deduce that the line would not be short if everyone were allowed to use it (http://synthenomics.blogspot.com/2012/03/efficient-adaptative-market-policy.html).

It's WN. Take care of yourself because nobody else will. Ask the GA and, if someone wants to say something, let them address it tot he GA. If they don't work for the air carrier you are flying, you should care what they think, say or do.

That certainly would be a step backward.

Which - allocated seating, or the wider groups?

Neil

Oh I always ask what number they are. Often times the newbies with C5 get in the business select line and I politely explain to them how it works. Nobody really has an issue.

I see the GA send people back to the end of the line especially if its really way ahead of their time to board.

I am sure you can spot those lost people who seem unsure of where they lineup. I bet 75% of the time they are in the wrong spot. Just a friendly hand to explain where they should go helps everybody.

Which - allocated seating, or the wider groups?

Neil

I would say the wider groups. 3 groups, no number order is just what it used to be. 3 lines (or in some airports, funnels) with everyone cramming forward to get in. People camping out 2 hours before the flight to be at the front. In other words, "cattle car" airline. No thanks.

I would say the wider groups. 3 groups, no number order is just what it used to be. 3 lines (or in some airports, funnels) with everyone cramming forward to get in. People camping out 2 hours before the flight to be at the front. In other words, "cattle car" airline. No thanks.

Thinking about those days makes me cringe. It makes line breakers and seat savers seem like model citizens.

It is amazing what we used to put up with just to save a few bucks on airfare. That was the day in which WN really was almost always the least expensive, and usually by a bunch.

I remember when they first started BNA to BDL NS and ran $29 fares. My customer in Connecticut called them "Let's meet for lunch" fares.

Thinking about those days makes me cringe. It makes line breakers and seat savers seem like model citizens.

It is amazing what we used to put up with just to save a few bucks on airfare. That was the day in which WN really was almost always the least expensive, and usually by a bunch.

Yeah, back then if anyone said Southwest's boarding was a cattle call they were absolutely right. Not only that but the waste of our time was staggering.

Yeah, back then if anyone said Southwest's boarding was a cattle call they were absolutely right. Not only that but the waste of our time was staggering.

I would get to the airport 1.5 hours early just to stand in line at the GA desk to get a card. I can remember counting the people in front of me to see if I was going to be in the first boarding group or not. It was not unusual to get there and already be a line of 50-60 people just standing in line for the plastic card. Get the card and stand in line again at the gate. UGH! :td::td:

EDIT: I also remember the punch card for the first RT that you had to carry around and get punched before the flight. Fill the card within a year (16 flights?) and mail it in to get a RR account.

I would say the wider groups. 3 groups, no number order is just what it used to be. 3 lines (or in some airports, funnels) with everyone cramming forward to get in. People camping out 2 hours before the flight to be at the front. In other words, "cattle car" airline. No thanks.

Fair point. But with such a complex system why not go for allocated seating instead? It doesn't sound any harder to administer, and easyJet's trials have found that it isn't actually any slower for boarding purposes, and you can prevent people turning up late by other means e.g. a strict cut-off.

Or do people actually like free seating on SWA? I think most easyJet passengers thought of it as a necessary evil, and there has been very little negative feedback on the decision to move to allocation by the end of November on all routes following the trial.

Neil

Or do people actually like free seating on SWA?

As a non status flyer, assigned seating on the major airlines sux. Since so many seats are allocated as premium, there are often nothing but middles or no seats available for assignment for tickets bought a couple of weeks before flight (which is my typical lead time for business flights). Sometimes I luck out at checkin and get a decent seat, sometimes middle seat in the last row.

On WN, I have never had a middle seat when travelling by myself, or had to sit in the last row. All it takes is a little planning to check in on-line at the right time. Occasionally, I even score an exit row, which would require a buy-up on other airlines.

So for me, the WN system works better than the assigned seating other airlines offer.

the advantage of no assigned seating- you can choose your seat mate-
whatever your criteria!!!!

Or do people actually like free seating on SWA?

I do. As do people who book less than 7 days ahead, by which time all the good seats are gone on other airlines.

With open seating you have more influence on whether the middle seat is open (because rows 13-17 fill in last). You also can adapt your seating choice to the actual load on the flight. It it's really empty you can get a row to yourself in back. If it's full, you might as well sit near the front. No assigned seating airline can match that real-time flexibility.

I do. As do people who book less than 7 days ahead, by which time all the good seats are gone on other airlines.

With open seating you have more influence on whether the middle seat is open (because rows 13-17 fill in last). You also can adapt your seating choice to the actual load on the flight. It it's really empty you can get a row to yourself in back. If it's full, you might as well sit near the front. No assigned seating airline can match that real-time flexibility.

why are 13-17 last? Sorry if this is obvious

why are 13-17 last? Sorry if this is obvious

What we are talking about is middle seat usage. There are a certain number of people on every flight that just want to be near the front. They usually do not have a bag for the bin. So they sit in the first seat they find and fill the middles going back.

The second group are those that are near the last and bin space is getting scarce. They need to go all the way to the back to find bin space and knowing that there are no seats except middles, they fill the middles from the back to the front.

The intersection of these two groups occurs at 13-17 which are the last middles to be filled.

At least that is the theory.

Or do people actually like free seating on SWA? I think most easyJet passengers thought of it as a necessary evil, and there has been very little negative feedback on the decision to move to allocation by the end of November on all routes following the trial.

A survey that prompted easyJet to adopt assigned seating (http://www.gotimeshare.org/news-items/834.aspx) involved 800,000 passengers on 6,000 test flights. More than 70% felt it did improve the boarding experience and over 60% said they were likely to use easyJet in future because of it.

I tend to think fee revenue from the extra leg room/premium seating options may have influenced the decision. Whether the survey itself was rigged, I can't say.

Or do people actually like free seating on SWA?

Neil

I recently tried to book a DL flight 6 weeks ahead, RJ-RJ DTW. I checked the seat map and the first leg was "full" with no seats available, but I could buy a ticket. The second leg showed three seats, all in the last row.

I'll take my chances with open seating.

What we are talking about is middle seat usage. There are a certain number of people on every flight that just want to be near the front. They usually do not have a bag for the bin. So they sit in the first seat they find and fill the middles going back.

The second group are those that are near the last and bin space is getting scarce. They need to go all the way to the back to find bin space and knowing that there are no seats except middles, they fill the middles from the back to the front.

The intersection of these two groups occurs at 13-17 which are the last middles to be filled.

At least that is the theory.
Ha. Got it. Thanks for the explanation.

I recently tried to book a DL flight 6 weeks ahead, RJ-RJ DTW. I checked the seat map and the first leg was "full" with no seats available, but I could buy a ticket. The second leg showed three seats, all in the last row.

I'll take my chances with open seating.

Unless I have no other choice, when a seat map shows nothing available, I go elsewhere to book. Either another flight, or another carrier.

Open seating is preferable to arriving at the airport with no seat assignment.

Unless I have no other choice, when a seat map shows nothing available, I go elsewhere to book. Either another flight, or another carrier.

I book a lot of work travel under a week out and trying to find a flight with an open window or aisle can be difficult without status. Southwest is a far a better choice in this scenario even without status. US Airways is the worst IME, I'm pretty much guaranteed to have to pay $30-45 each way to get out of sitting in a middle.

I'd be surprised if a great many WN flyers book "a lot of work travel" less than a week out. Given that much travel, "status" to secure a aisle/window seat should be quick.

But the premise that airlines withhold seats so you will pay a premium is more than plausible. Seats, per se, are not "optional services" and artificially managing availability incurs almost no oversight.

Leveraging the desirability of seat location with revenue opportunities is not unknown to WN, either.

I'd be surprised if a great many WN flyers book "a lot of work travel" less than a week out. Given that much travel, "status" to secure a aisle/window seat should be quick.



In most cases you would be correct. However, those of use using a mid-level, semi-hub like BNA or MCI do not have an opportunity to build status on just one airline. This is particularly true if ones travel is to multiple locations and not just back to the home office or three or four field locations.

I book a lot of travel inside of 7 days. That is when WN has the most competitive pricing from my home airport.

I have investigated the possibility of moving my travel to another airline and what would be required to gain status. Since my travel is domestic, it would require booking that airline when it is not convenient, or when it is more expensive. Some of my destinations favor DL, some US and some UA. Changing from WN which serves every city to which I travel really does not make sense. At least not yet. It is getting closer.

I recently tried to book a DL flight 6 weeks ahead, RJ-RJ DTW. I checked the seat map and the first leg was "full" with no seats available, but I could buy a ticket.

Really. I did not think it was possible to purchase a ticket on DL with no seats available. Their online seat map and the inventory are different. Even with zero status, actual purchase would have coughed up a seat assignment and there'd be six weeks to snag a better one. I understand it's a crap shoot, but late October is not peak travel.

My average flight length is probably 500 miles so it would not as easy as you think for me to build status on an EQM based system. I made A-List on WN in 5 roundtrips this year FYI. If I flew those same trips on the legacies I'd be using a combination of US, UA and AS. And low level elite status on the legacies doesn't get you much these days.

Really. I did not think it was possible to purchase a ticket on DL with no seats available. Their online seat map and the inventory are different. Even with zero status, actual purchase would have coughed up a seat assignment and there'd be six weeks to snag a better one. I understand it's a crap shoot, but late October is not peak travel.

It was not that there were no seats available. There were no seats available to me, someone without status.

I have booked these before when necessary. They do not permit me to choose a seat. It is worse than open seating. I get to the airport and they tell me where I will sit.

My average flight length is probably 500 miles so it would not as easy as you think for me to build status on an EQM based system. I made A-List on WN in 5 roundtrips this year FYI. If I flew those same trips on the legacies I'd be using a combination of US, UA and AS. And low level elite status on the legacies doesn't get you much these days.

With 4x the schedule of any rival at ONT, your choice is obvious. You've earned your status and the early-boarding perk.

I'm A+ Elite on FL with 6 roundtrips and sit in business class a bit under half the time.

Pretty clearly, it depends on the airport.

They do not permit me to choose a seat. It is worse than open seating. I get to the airport and they tell me where I will sit.

I don't see how WN out of Nashville with zero status is way better. I understand EBCI is a buy-in option. But as Southwest likely serves a ton of BNA elites, I tend to think newbies trying to avoid an upcharge and a middle seat are no better positioned than with a legacy. The clinching variable is schedule frequency and/or fares. WN wins.

I don't see how WN out of Nashville with zero status is way better. I understand EBCI is a buy-in option. But as Southwest likely serves a ton of BNA elites, I tend to think newbies trying to avoid an upcharge and a middle seat are no better positioned than with a legacy. The clinching variable is schedule frequency and/or fares. WN wins.

I may have been unclear. I have all the status that is possible with WN, A+ and CP. That said, WN with no status beats legacy with no status, at least out of BNA.

I'm A+ Elite on FL with 6 roundtrips and sit in business class a bit under half the time.

Enjoy that business class while it lasts :)

WN with no status beats legacy with no status, at least out of BNA.

A tie, maybe. As dominant carrier, WN would have more BNA elites and non-status flyers would queue near the end or pay an upcharge.

Like the legacies.

(And like MCI, arguably.)

WN should tell you what your check-in position will be before you purchase the ticket. They could even charge more for the highest spots if they wanted. At the very least, they could cap the number of EBCI sales so they can guarantee value.

A tie, maybe. As dominant carrier, WN would have more BNA elites and non-status flyers would queue near the end or pay an upcharge.

Like the legacies.

(And like MCI, arguably.)

WN should tell you what your check-in position will be before you purchase the ticket. They could even charge more for the highest spots if they wanted. At the very least, they could cap the number of EBCI sales so they can guarantee value.

It is less about the boarding and seating than it is schedules, convenience and price (in that order). And they do sell limited guaranteed boarding position. It is called Business Select.

And just for the fun of it, explain to me a process whereby they could tell me my boarding position as I purchase the ticket.

And they do sell limited guaranteed boarding position. It is called Business Select.

And as you observed, it is often a guarantee of nada:

Seating on through flights is a crap shoot and there is a good chance that BS buys no advantage. Any more, that is nearly every flight, even many from coastal and near-border airports.

What is the average BS fare differential?

And as you observed, it is often a guarantee of nada:



What is the average BS fare differential?

I have no idea what the average differential is. When the schedule first opens, it is typically 2.5:1 or so. As the fare buckets sell out, it will top out in the neighborhood of of a 20%-25% premium. BS is fixed except for general fare increases. So, you know what the maximum is at all times, or close to it.

With my A+ bonus, a 20% differential is roughly covered by the point value. Anytime fares are always covered by the point differential at A+.

As an example, right now, BNA-LAX for the 24th is 557/337. After that, every Monday is 557/236 for the NS.

MCI, a shorter NS is 253/205 on the 24th. The ratio goes 253/99 farther out.

And as you observed, it is often a guarantee of nada:

Business Select is a guarantee that you won't get stuck in a middle seat IME.

And as you observed, it is often a guarantee of nada:

Originally Posted by InkUnderNails
Seating on through flights is a crap shoot and there is a good chance that BS buys no advantage. Any more, that is nearly every flight, even many from coastal and near-border airports.



Nice way to pull a quote out of context. My quote was versus A+, not EBCI or regular boarding. If you are regular boarding without status, BS buy a lot. It may not be worth it to everyone, but it has value.

Nice way to pull a quote out of context. My quote was versus A+, not EBCI or regular boarding. If you are regular boarding without status, BS buy a lot. It may not be worth it to everyone, but it has value.

Nice way to walk back a fairly unambiguous statement. And if you have NO status, I would think it less likely the 2x points would matter as much as a cost benefit to BS fare differentials. All of which is on topic.

Nice way to walk back a fairly unambiguous statement. And if you have NO status, I would think it less likely the 2x points would matter as much as a cost benefit to BS fare differentials. All of which is on topic.

INK's rules on purchase of BS (I am A+):


If I am changing flights last minute because my work schedule has gone south, I buy the BS to allow multiple changes and maximum flexibility. I do not exchange the WGA I am holding, I buy a new BS. I will cancel the WGA only after I know I will not be able to use it maintaining its viability. If I cancel, I have the TTF's for another day. The BS can then be cancelled without penalty. If you use WGA funds to buy the BS, the refundability follows the original purchase. With the new BS, I can even book another carrier and know I will get all of my money back.

The points differential between WGA and BS pays itself back somewhere in the neighborhood of WGA at 75% of BS. (Every time I try to do the calculation my brain goes numb, but someone here will know.) When WGA gets over 60%-70% of BS, then I have to start thinking that the BS is the best, particularly when the flexibility may be likely.

Anytime vs BS differential in price almost never covers the point spread, so the comparison is WGA vs BS. In other words, if WGA is not available, buy the BS.

Seating on through flights is a crap shoot and there is a good chance that BS buys no advantage. Any more, that is nearly every flight, even many from coastal and near-border airports.

The free drink is worth at most $10 on a connection, $5 on a NS or direct and $0 on a early morning flight. (OK, that is wrong. I write this on my free drink ticket: "Wild Turkey. Bring in open bottle with a cup of Diet Coke and I will mix it myself." When they bring it and they are out of sight, I take out my empty mini, swap out the cap, drop the full mini in my backpack and act like I am 50ml happier than I was.) I can buy WT Minis for $4, so value is $4/$8. Big whoop. In Kentucky, they sell them even cheaper in six-packs, price unknown because why would I want to.


There is the context. Of 5 reasons to buy or not buy BS, there is only one in which I said there may be no value. And even then it was not a known, just a risk. And it was in a thread about buying BS if one was already A+.

I am not pulling it back. I still stand behind what I said as part of the larger context. I was not talking about non-status purchases.

There is the context. Of 5 reasons to buy or not buy BS, there is only one in which I said there may be no value. And even then it was not a known, just a risk. And it was in a thread about buying BS if one was already A+.

I am not pulling it back. I still stand behind what I said as part of the larger context. I was not talking about non-status purchases.


++1 ^

I was not talking about non-status purchases.

I was. And I still find no foundation to claim that "if you are regular boarding without status, BS buy a lot. It may not be worth it to everyone, but it has value." What value?

If non-status flyers were ardently chasing point redemption goals, that might be true. But I tend to think a 2x point offer would appeal to them the least. Obviously, the adult bev can't be the clincher. And it's just as unlikely non-status flyers would be inclined to hand over a couple hundred just to board early.

Especially when, as noted, a guarantee of A 1-15 is a crap shoot.

Citing Gary Kelly in USAToday, BS fares were launched with the expectation they "will generate at least $100 million a year in additional revenue by attracting business travelers (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2007-11-07-southwest-business-select_N.htm) willing to spend more for tickets."

Their value to non-status flyers seems fairly baseless.

Sorry if this question has been adressed before; however, a Forum search did not reveal it has, at least recently.

If you are traveling in Business Select and making a connection, what is the boarding etiquette if your connecting flight has already begun boarding when you arrive at the gate?

Can you go directly to the GA and, in a sense, jump in line since your number is going to be lower than anyone boarding at that moment?

I don't see anything wrong with it. If you fly a legacy and are in First Class and economy is already boarding when you get to the gate, there is a separate line you can just use to cut in front of everyone else (or even if you are a higher tier frequent flyer and your upgrade hasn't cleared and they are boarding a higher zone when you get to the gate you can get in the special line and jump ahead of those boarding). You paid a lot of the business select ticket and nothign wrong with getting one of the biggest benefits out of it, especially if it's due to your first plane coming in late.

If I arrive late at the boarding I step right up to the ops agent after showing my BP to the first person in line. Nobody ever complains.

If I arrive late at the boarding I step right up to the ops agent after showing my BP to the first person in line. Nobody ever complains.

The same would apply to non BS holders. If someone missed their boarding group/spot, they can board at any point past that.

When you get to the gate is up to you.

Sorry if this question has been adressed before; however, a Forum search did not reveal it has, at least recently.

If you are traveling in Business Select and making a connection, what is the boarding etiquette if your connecting flight has already begun boarding when you arrive at the gate?

Can you go directly to the GA and, in a sense, jump in line since your number is going to be lower than anyone boarding at that moment?

Is this even debatable?

If you paid for BS, that means you are entitled to BS privileges. Which means you can board whenever you want. For most people this is as early as possible, so if you miss your original # just walk up to the front and politely interrupt the line.