Thai Airways Royal Orchid Plus - If a flight is full why accept more e-bookings

Hi, I am travelling in J from BKK-SYD - flight is showing full (when I look at the seat map when making the booking). Why then does the web site allow me to make the e-booking without having a seat showing vacant?

A number of passengers do not check in on the flight they booked. In order to balance these "no shows", the airlines sell more seats than apparently available.

Also, a full seat map doesn't mean a full cabin - seats are often blocked for various reasons (such as a bassinet position for an infant) and will become available again at check-in.

I think the seats are blocked too. BTW, do TG over sell premium product?

I've never known TG or most other asian airlines to overbook in any classes. I've never once heard them call for volunteers to take another flight. So if they do any sort of overbooking, it must be very conservative. Now I'm sure there have been cases of overbooking due to plane change, or VIP's who insist on traveling on a fully booked flight. But it's definitely not the norm based on my experience.

They do though take on additional economy class passengers than they have room for and bump up some of the economy passengers to business class. And I assume likewise for business to first. But this is always done at the check-in counter and they have a group of standby passengers waiting around to see if they'll make it on or not, based on how many passengers show up for the flight.

As others have said, this is almost certainly an issue of not all seats being released, not an overbooking issue.

I've never known TG or most other asian airlines to overbook in any classes. I've never once heard them call for volunteers to take another flight. So if they do any sort of overbooking, it must be very conservative. Now I'm sure there have been cases of overbooking due to plane change, or VIP's who insist on traveling on a fully booked flight. But it's definitely not the norm based on my experience.

They do though take on additional economy class passengers than they have room for and bump up some of the economy passengers to business class. And I assume likewise for business to first. But this is always done at the check-in counter and they have a group of standby passengers waiting around to see if they'll make it on or not, based on how many passengers show up for the flight.

As others have said, this is almost certainly an issue of not all seats being released, not an overbooking issue.


They definitely do overbook, as all airlines do. You seem to contradict yourself in the first statement you say you have never known them to overbook, and then in the next line you say they take on more passengers than they have room for. is that not overbooking?

The seat maps mean absolutely nothing in terms of passenger numbers anyway, you can have an almost empty seat map but an overbooked flight for example.

From what I know, ALL airline overbook flights. Some do it a little more subtle then others. The 'better' companies will overbook by a couple, while other airlines are known to overbook by a lot more. Once, I had to deal with a flight from TAP which had a total overbooking of 20 pax. (no reroutings or anything). But from my experience, eastern airlines a less prone to have such significant numbers then some European airlines. As said, TAP is specially known for this practice.

You seem to contradict yourself in the first statement you say you have never known them to overbook, and then in the next line you say they take on more passengers than they have room for. is that not overbooking?

Well then maybe what I thought was overbooking is different that what your definition is. What I've seen is where there are passengers that are on standby, not guaranteed a seat. Or a waiting list if you will. They go to the airport and standby to see if there's room for them or not. If there's enough no-shows and/or space in C to upgrade passengers from Y, they get on. If not, they go home and can try another day.

By overbooking, I mean people who are able to buy a confirmed ticket, but for which the airline does not have enough seats for if everyone shows up. I've never known TG to do this, or if they do, I've never seen them caught out doing it so that they have to turn away passengers. I don't know for sure though, maybe it happens but it's never happened to me, nor anyone I know, nor people on this forum and it's kept quiet. So whatever they're doing in that respect, they seem to be doing a good job and not getting any complaints.

Basically the two overselling situations need to be separated.

1. Airline oversell lower classes, but leave room in higher classes should an op-up be required. Number of pax booked does not exceed capacity of aircraft.

2. Airline oversell lower classes and also fill higher classes full. Number of pax booked exceeds capacity of aircraft.

Essentially the second option is a step further down the overbooking philosophy, taking onboard extra revenue, but also the extra risk of having pax (in)voluntarily bumped to the next flight. In my opinion, there is no conclusive evidence which is the "better" option in earning the airline the most revenue but general consensus is that asian carriers are not so aggressive in pursuing oversell revenue by engaging in option 2.

Basically the two overselling situations need to be separated.

1. Airline oversell lower classes, but leave room in higher classes should an op-up be required. Number of pax booked does not exceed capacity of aircraft.

2. Airline oversell lower classes and also fill higher classes full. Number of pax booked exceeds capacity of aircraft.

Essentially the second option is a step further down the overbooking philosophy, taking onboard extra revenue, but also the extra risk of having pax (in)voluntarily bumped to the next flight. In my opinion, there is no conclusive evidence which is the "better" option in earning the airline the most revenue but general consensus is that asian carriers are not so aggressive in pursuing oversell revenue by engaging in option 2.

I was referring to option 2 when talking about overselling. I agree that they do engage in option 1 type overselling. And actually thinking about it, in this case if there was an F cabin on the flight, then overselling the C cabin could be happening and resulting in not being able to select a seat. Although it's more likely just a case of blocked seats.

When I booked in J the seat map showed 4 seats available over upper and lower decks. Now they show none available. When I spoke to a Thai rep they said the flight was very full.

Therefore, I was slightly concerned that the flight was being oversold, while still allowing me to book another seat on the same flight, same class.

There is an option to choose seats before finalising the booking, when I did this there were no seats to choose.

Airlines, just like hotels, have to overbook in order to run full. The challenge is having enough changes / no shows to make sure everyone who wants to be on the plane has a seat, and no seats go unfilled.

In my previous hotel life, a few times per year we would sell more rooms than we had actual rooms, since often people no show, even after the deadline that day to cancel.

Thai will oversell in excess of the capacity of the aircraft. Not by huge numbers though.

They have a little less room to move now with Y class oversell though with the reduction in paid standby upgrades due to the number of passengers on Q class or higher tickets. The majority of Thai tickets sold are in V and W class.

Domestically, there is a huge overselling practice. They just do equipment changes to the larger capacity aircraft. Just as common is the all too frustrating cancellations as they axe an earlier or later flight and merge the pax.

If you have a 3 cabin flight, it's very easy to overbook biz and move people up to F. Also, paid business could have a high rate of date changes that require them to overbook a certain percentage to ensure the flight remains full.

And, of course, as noted, just because there are no seats available makes no bearing on whether they are assigned or not. By not giving you a seat, they can ensure the Thai DYKWIA VIPs get to choose their best seats, and leave you with the last choice. But, you're in Biz, so all seats are OK to begin with.