India-based Airlines - The consolidated Air India strategy/profitability armchair CEO thread

http://www.firstpost.com/business/air-india-blames-everyone-but-itself-for-losses-419708.html

"The civil aviation ministry recently conducted a detailed study on international and domestic routes which are non-profitable for the airline. Interestingly, the reasons for the poor performance, as given by the airline, are lack of freedom in deciding aircraft deployment; foreign carriers getting multiple points of access within India and carrying away traffic; and Indian private airlines concentrating on Delhi International Airport as an international hub."

lack of freedom in deciding aircraft deployment;

Going by the stories where aircrafts are swapped to ensure Mantriji's family gets to sit in business class, I don't think there's any "freedom" lacking when it comes to deciding aircraft deployment.

I guess what they mean is lack of "right aircraft for the right route" or not having suitable aircrafts at hand to fly the kind of routes AI operates.

The '787 to Australia' saga being a good example in that regard. The thinking there seems to be "we have a new aircraft, and here's a destination we haven't flown to in ages.... kya kehte ho? chalein?"

Indian private airlines concentrating on Delhi International Airport as an international hub."

Er, so does Air India. Talk of a tantrum if there ever was one. In AI land, the way to compete with private airlines is not by improving ones product, service delivery and perception, but blaming the fact that they too want a share of the same parantha. Especially ironic as AI was the sole purveyor of the said parantha for a long time.


foreign carriers getting multiple points of access within India and carrying away traffic;

Thank God for that. Else there won't be any decent way of getting to India from most of the rest of the world. Without running the gauntlet that is the AI schedule.

Going by the stories where aircrafts are swapped to ensure Mantriji's family gets to sit in business class, I don't think there's any "freedom" lacking when it comes to deciding aircraft deployment.

To be fair to the airline, the management being made up of babu's or babu appointees are Govt servants in the literal sense of the word. When mantriji issues an order they follow it. So if the minister (or his daughter) wants a different aircraft on a route, then they will usually get it.

If you are referring to the specific case where an RTI revealed that an A319 was substituted with an A320 on the DEL-BLR-MLE route, i would like to point out that that case was classic case of what we in the business call ambulance chasing journalism. File an RTI application looking for a story to fall into your lap. The younger lot of freshie journos, desperate to make a mark, are usually the culprit here.

The RTI revealed that AI did infact make an operational swap to the bigger A320 and the ministers family did in fact travel that day between BLR and MLE. The story made out therefore was this was done to accomodate the ministers family in the larger business class cabin. Its only when you look deeper, you realise that the ministers family sat in the last 3 rows of the aircraft, hence travelled Y. Only 2 members sat in J. But many times a story is built by showing convenient facts and hiding those which are inconvenient. But we digress!

This is not to say that ministers dont put pressure to influence management. The same ministers daughter, working for IPL, did get a FULL DEL-IXM flight cancelled and diverted the aircraft to fetch IPL players from Chandigarh!

Not saying its a good thing. Just pointing out that the fundamental problem is the Govt interference, not the management themselves.



The '787 to Australia' saga being a good example in that regard. The thinking there seems to be "we have a new aircraft, and here's a destination we haven't flown to in ages.... kya kehte ho? chalein?"

Actually the aircraft of choice for the route has always been the 77W. In a slightly better economic situation they would do precisely that. Burn the extra cash required to fly the 77W over the 787 until the loads and yields build up. however with the cash situation being precarious, emphasis is on making the route cash-positive ASAP. Hence the 787 as an interim measure. With the kind of loads expected the first year, the 787 enables them to BUILD the route while getting cash positive asap. It also gives them time to swap some of the 77L's with 77W's: they would do that now if they had the cash which they dont.

The MEL/SYD route will roll over to 77W: not a question of if, but when. Main worry is that AI will build the route over a year and a half, and then mantriji will get them to withdraw in favor of 9W. This sort of thing has happened before.


Er, so does Air India. Talk of a tantrum if there ever was one. In AI land, the way to compete with private airlines is not by improving ones product, service delivery and perception, but blaming the fact that they too want a share of the same parantha. Especially ironic as AI was the sole purveyor of the said parantha for a long time.

Again we cannot conclude that Air India has thrown a tantrum based on this media report. This is more the journalists interpretation!

AI is completely missing the point with excuses like "aircraft deployment" and "too much competition." The former may be a valid complaint, but it's not really that important in the big picture. And the latter is something which AI will have to deal with considering we live in what is becoming more of a free market economy each day.

There are a few major themes which can explain most of AI's losses:

1) Government interference.

Example 1: 787 fiasco. Why does CCEA, GoM, every single ministry, Sonia, etc. all have to approve each and every move? The amount of inefficiency created is ridiculous

Example 2: As noted above, AI being forced to make aircraft swaps and such to accommodate politicians. This hurts AI's operation and costs $$

Example 3: Politically motivated prestige routes. AI loses ~ US$ 60 million each year flying Amritsar-Delhi-Toronto. This route is served because UPA government wants it to be flown. Similarly, the Washington tag-on which AI operated never made profit for a single flight, yet AI still had to fly it for a while because the government wanted service to USA's capital. Next up, Ottawa :rolleyes:

Example 4: Free tickets doled out a political favors. (http://www.firstpost.com/business/air-india-must-reveal-identity-of-free-ticket-holders-court-402539.html)

2) Bloated and inefficient workforce

Needs no explanation.

3) Corruption

There was an audit published last year by SAII which highlighted lots of inconsistencies and corruption. You can read it here (http://saiindia.gov.in/english/home/Our_Products/Audit_Report/Government_Wise/union_audit/recent_reports/union_performance/2011_2012/Civil_%20Performance_Audits/Report_18/exe-sum.pdf)

Of course, that report only touches the tip of the iceberg

4)Mismanagement

Some of the people at AI just aren't so great at the job which they do. This is made worse by government job-entitlement which employees develop. For political reasons, firing and layoffs cannot be done - so AI flounders.

Er, so does Air India. Talk of a tantrum if there ever was one. In AI land, the way to compete with private airlines is not by improving ones product, service delivery and perception, but blaming the fact that they too want a share of the same parantha. Especially ironic as AI was the sole purveyor of the said parantha for a long time.

it would be nice if ai could start by having their own lounge in a place they are concentrating on as an international hub....:rolleyes:

4)Mismanagement

Some of the people at AI just aren't so great at the job which they do. This is made worse by government job-entitlement which employees develop. For political reasons, firing and layoffs cannot be done - so AI flounders.

not 'some'....'most' of these people are incompetent....

http://aeroblogger.com/home/blog/how-air-india-can-better-be-utilized-to-fulfill-strategic-objectives/
In contrast to the limited routes of strategic value, Air India wastes lots of money on politically mandated prestige routes. A loss of $60 million each year is posted on Air India’s route to Toronto, yet the route is continued due to political pressure. Politicians want service to Chicago, not Congo, despite the fact that the latter would be a far more useful destination.

Very long article, so short quote to give general idea.

I liked article quite a bit. Maybe too much listing city names, but ideas were good and aeroblogger was fair.

Dear oh dear oh dear.

Did you see the author of this article?

Dear oh dear oh dear.

Did you see the author of this article?

Yes, I saw author. It is aeroblogger... :confused:

aeroblogger = PVDtoDEL. I don't think any further elaboration is needed.

And there are no global strategic objectives we need any of our airlines to fulfil in 2012. Even if we did, AI aren't capable of doing so.

aeroblogger = PVDtoDEL. I don't think any further elaboration is needed. Sometimes PVDtoDEL has ridiculous posts on this forum, but his website is usually pretty good.

And there are no global strategic objectives we need any of our airlines to fulfil in 2012.Of course there are. The implementation of the "Look East" policy in recent years has been poor. Central Asian countries ("stans") are slipping out of India's sphere of influence.. Even more worrying, Sri Lanka and Maldives are too. China is becoming very friendly with them.

If you follow geopolitics, you would know which objectives need to be worked on. Aeroblogger clearly follows such things.


Even if we did, AI aren't capable of doing so.
Well, aeroblogger mentions that AI probably can't do it in the last sentence... But it's still a very interesting article.

Of course there are. The implementation of the "Look East" policy in recent years has been poor. Central Asian countries ("stans") are slipping out of India's sphere of influence.. Even more worrying, Sri Lanka and Maldives are too.
What do you think we are ? China ? :p

Anyway, looking east and north is all well and good. But we need to look within first, and then worry about the rest.

In any event, with the reality of India in mind, there needs to be a viable plan first, followed by a lot of other work before forcing anyone to start flights between Solapur and Samarkand. And if that other work were successful, the market would respond on its own. We are not a communist state.

The loads on the YYZ flight so far have been very full, sometimes even more than the 77W to HKG...
It can do well because many South Asians do not like being further scrutinized by US security.

Chicago. Congo.

Was the author just randomly picking nouns that sound poetic?

Anyway, looking east and north is all well and good. But we need to look within first, and then worry about the rest.


To fulfil strategic objectives using an Airline, the Airline in question needs to be far better run and professionally managed than Air India.

The entire article is a gas. Merely having an airline fly to a particular country doesn't bring countries closer. Nor does it turn them into "allies". :rolleyes:

It’s time that Air India takes a look at the fundamentals of how it crafts its route network. There is no dearth of carriers who can take you from Toronto to Delhi, and the traffic which flies that route is likely to fly regardless of whether Air India is there or not.

By that logic, AI should not bother flying to Australia.

The entire article is a gas.
I haven't read it, but I expect it is predicated on fanboy fantasy rather than rightful reality (is that a little too alliterative ?).

To fulfil strategic objectives using an Airline, the Airline in question needs to be far better run and professionally managed than Air India.

The entire article is a gas. Merely having an airline fly to a particular country doesn't bring countries closer. Nor does it turn them into "allies". :rolleyes:

err, do we want an emirates? air india should convince the GoM that they should buy out Emirates.

Example 3: Politically motivated prestige routes. AI loses ~ US$ 60 million each year flying Amritsar-Delhi-Toronto. This route is served because UPA government wants it to be flown. Similarly, the Washington tag-on which AI operated never made profit for a single flight, yet AI still had to fly it for a while because the government wanted service to USA's capital. Next up, Ottawa :rolleyes:

Do you have any link for that (UPA wanting ATQ-YYZ)? I don't doubt it, just curious why that route in particular.

Thank you for the link bollyfan :)

The loads on the YYZ flight so far have been very full, sometimes even more than the 77W to HKG...
It can do well because many South Asians do not like being further scrutinized by US security.

YYZ loses tons of money, because the traffic which is there is very low yielding. In order to get loads, AI has to cut prices beyond sustainable levels.

Chicago. Congo.

Was the author just randomly picking nouns that sound poetic?

poeticness was certainly one reason why I picked those 2 destinations... But in the paragraphs before, I talked more about both Chicago (destination loses lots of money) and Congo (Turkish Airlines uses to improve geopolitical ties). Congo is also mentioned in the Ministry of External Affairs' list of developmentally significant countries, which means that the Indian government is (in theory) making a concerted effort to bring closer relations.


The entire article is a gas. Merely having an airline fly to a particular country doesn't bring countries closer. Nor does it turn them into "allies". :rolleyes:

Of course not. However, there are many significant benefits of commercial air service which can help strengthen ties, if India puts in a concerted effort to apply its foreign policy and make new friends.

By that logic, AI should not bother flying to Australia.

Yeah...

Do you have any link for that (UPA wanting ATQ-YYZ)? I don't doubt it, just curious why that route in particular.

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/resumption-amritsar-delhi-toronto-ai-flight-sought/55156

This article gives some history behind the launch of the route...

.S Navjot Singh Sidhu fought against this injustice ,then it was restarted from Amritsar to Toronto via Delhi.It shows anti- Amritsar policy of the Air India So once again Mr Sidhu has to fight for its resmption.

The grammar in this article is atrocious, and it has some ridiculous claims ("This route is profitable"), but it got this part right... Back in 2010, S Navjot Singh Sidhu went to the government and lobbied like crazy to get this service. He himself is BJP, but it was the UPA supported mantris at MoCA who supported the request..

Just merged a couple of threads started in the last two days on Air India strategy and profitability issues into this consolidated thread. Please let me know if there are any more recent duplicates and I will add them here as well.

Thanks,
AJLondon, co-mod IbA

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aeroblogger = PVDtoDEL. I don't think any further elaboration is needed.

And there are no global strategic objectives we need any of our airlines to fulfil in 2012. Even if we did, AI aren't capable of doing so.

Ad hominems are not a subsitute for reason. Why do you think aeroblogger's claims should be rejected?

Its seems in the AI-IC management battle, another project bites the dust: AI is grounding the A330 fleet of a grand two aircraft starting Winter 2012/13: https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status/238520930278731776

Are these still owned by Novair?

Its seems in the AI-IC management battle, another project bites the dust: AI is grounding the A330 fleet of a grand two aircraft starting Winter 2012/13: https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status/238520930278731776

Are these still owned by Novair?

Those 330s were the only pmIC widebodies... If this is indeed happening, I'd imagine ICPA will not be happy, going back to an exclusively A320 fleet.

Then again, from a fleet planning perspective, this move makes a lot of sense. I guess they are being replaced by the 787s.

Nope , Icpa is already happy, they have half the 787 fleet. I personally am unhappy cause I always wanted to move to the 330's.

Nope , Icpa is already happy, they have half the 787 fleet. They only have the 787s once they arrive, and at the current pace, that might very well be in the next decade or so...

I personally am unhappy cause I always wanted to move to the 330's.

Why? More vacation time while they are grounded? :p

Its seems in the AI-IC management battle, another project bites the dust
When o when will the whole bloodsucking airline bite the dust?

They already have crew for 2 aircraft trained. That equals the 330 fleet. Everything else Is a bonus. I am an airbus fan and 330 was my ultimate dream until the 350 came out. So natural progression for me. As for my leave, I finish my quota and then go, not when the fleet is grounded.

They already have crew for 2 aircraft trained. That equals the 330 fleet. Everything else Is a bonus. I am an airbus fan and 330 was my ultimate dream until the 350 came out. So natural progression for me. As for my leave, I finish my quota and then go, not when the fleet is grounded.

So when the fleet is grounded, the pilots just sit at home and do nothing?

Pretty much. Or go do office work. Or if you are married house work. Or random stuff. Only the smart ones go on vacations. I know someone who did 3 this month, while waiting for the 787, whereas everyone else just sat at home. personal choice.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/SectorsAviation/Star-Alliance-AI-wants-to-be-in-before-Jet/Article1-918375.aspx

So apparently AI still hasn't given up on the Star Alliance.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/SectorsAviation/Star-Alliance-AI-wants-to-be-in-before-Jet/Article1-918375.aspx

So apparently AI still hasn't given up on the Star Alliance.

They are writing to the Govt. of India. Yeah, right... they are the ones who will grant them *A membership :D

Having read some pontification over on A.net about how AI might rejig its DEL-LHR schedule to provide easy connections with its SYD/MEL-DEL flights to "capture a part of the Kangaroo route" here's a couple of questions the resident expert(s) might be able to answer.

With 1 flight a day between AU and DEL, what market is AI hoping to capture?
Won't that 1 flight a day be a drawback in getting corporate customers (who like flexibility should their schedule change, or there be irrops)? Especially as every competitor on that route offers 2-3 flights a day between SYD/MEL and their hubs, and another 2-3 flights a day between their hub and Europe?
Segue from the 1 flight a day question, with no lounge at its own hub in DEL, how will it sll itself as an attractive proposition to anyone but budget minded travellers heading over to Europe with a backpack? (And even they have el-cheapo options thanks to Emirates/Etihad).

So what thought (if any) has gone into starting services to Australia where AI hasn't flown for well over a decade and the market from major AU cities to major IN cities is fairly saturated with most carriers (almost all with better hard and soft products than AI) offering one stop connectivity between most city pairs?

Having read some pontification over on A.net about how AI might rejig its DEL-LHR schedule to provide easy connections with its SYD/MEL-DEL flights to "capture a part of the Kangaroo route" here's a couple of questions the resident expert(s) might be able to answer.

With 1 flight a day between AU and DEL, what market is AI hoping to capture?
Won't that 1 flight a day be a drawback in getting corporate customers (who like flexibility should their schedule change, or there be irrops)? Especially as every competitor on that route offers 2-3 flights a day between SYD/MEL and their hubs, and another 2-3 flights a day between their hub and Europe?
Segue from the 1 flight a day question, with no lounge at its own hub in DEL, how will it sll itself as an attractive proposition to anyone but budget minded travellers heading over to Europe with a backpack? (And even they have el-cheapo options thanks to Emirates/Etihad).

So what thought (if any) has gone into starting services to Australia where AI hasn't flown for well over a decade and the market from major AU cities to major IN cities is fairly saturated with most carriers (almost all with better hard and soft products than AI) offering one stop connectivity between most city pairs?

Don't you understand... it's a prestige route. Who cares about money and balance sheets :rolleyes: :D

So what thought (if any) has gone into starting services to Australia where AI hasn't flown for well over a decade and the market from major AU cities to major IN cities is fairly saturated with most carriers (almost all with better hard and soft products than AI) offering one stop connectivity between most city pairs?

how can you call the air india product not good. its dirty orange in color after all...

Don't you understand... it's a prestige route. Who cares about money and balance sheets :rolleyes: :D
I don't get that. No offence to any antipodeans, but what on earth is prestigious about Australia, let alone flying there?

how can you call the air india product not good. its dirty orange in color after all...
Hahha... True though. That 787 interior looks even more ghastly then usual AI.

Don't you understand... it's a prestige route. Who cares about money and balance sheets :rolleyes: :D

can i have a flight to antartica please. pretty please! I won't have to go to S.America and go on a long trip from there then. Air India, there is one Indian wanting to go, won't you oblige :P

Having read some pontification over on A.net about how AI might rejig its DEL-LHR schedule to provide easy connections with its SYD/MEL-DEL flights to "capture a part of the Kangaroo route" here's a couple of questions the resident expert(s) might be able to answer.

With 1 flight a day between AU and DEL, what market is AI hoping to capture?
Won't that 1 flight a day be a drawback in getting corporate customers (who like flexibility should their schedule change, or there be irrops)? Especially as every competitor on that route offers 2-3 flights a day between SYD/MEL and their hubs, and another 2-3 flights a day between their hub and Europe?
Segue from the 1 flight a day question, with no lounge at its own hub in DEL, how will it sll itself as an attractive proposition to anyone but budget minded travellers heading over to Europe with a backpack? (And even they have el-cheapo options thanks to Emirates/Etihad).

So what thought (if any) has gone into starting services to Australia where AI hasn't flown for well over a decade and the market from major AU cities to major IN cities is fairly saturated with most carriers (almost all with better hard and soft products than AI) offering one stop connectivity between most city pairs?
Capturing as catching some of the traffic (market) not cornering the market. The market is there, and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that some people should or could fly LHR-DEL-SYD/ML , whether AI can make profit on that rote is a different matter.

Capturing as catching some of the traffic (market) not cornering the market. The market is there, and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that some people should or could fly LHR-DEL-SYD/ML , whether AI can make profit on that rote is a different matter.

No, it is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that some people should or could fly LHR-DEL-SYD/MEL and vv. I do think it won't be the market that AI needs to turn a profit on this route. You seem to have your doubts too about AI turning a profit on that route. Which begs the follow up

Should an airline that is losing crores of rupees by the day and is a drain for the exchequer (and by extension, the Indian taxpayer) be starting routes where it is less than certain to turn a profit?

I don't get that. No offence to any antipodeans, but what on earth is prestigious about Australia, let alone flying there?



None taken.

Do airlines still fly routes for "prestige"? Especially if they are not even breaking even on that route, much less turn a profit?

Then again who knows what some MoCA babu's idea of "prestige" is?

:confused:

None taken.

Do airlines still fly routes for "prestige"? Especially if they are not even breaking even on that route, much less turn a profit?

Then again who knows what some MoCA babu's idea of "prestige" is?

:confused:

Well, AI's very existence is partly some twisted sense of prestige, in the minds of the babu-mantri brigade, right?

And it doesn't end there, any minute now, AI will tell us that the chance to fly them is a matter of prestige for the passenger, because they are that fantastic. And that prestigiousness is so great, that AI is the perfect vehicle for India to counter China's might and growth. In a time when even the ganpati idols are made in China, the only way for Indian to ascend to supremacy is through Air India's prestigiousness. AI, we will be told (again), have already punched far above their weight and done so much to improve India's image and standing in the world. And if it weren't for the meddlesome Bagheera and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, China (and America and Britain and France) would have been annihilated already.

That said, I can see someone feeling a sense of prestige in flying to the like of London, Paris, New York or Tokyo. But Melbourne? Really?

That said, I can see someone feeling a sense of prestige in flying to the like of London, Paris, New York or Tokyo. But Melbourne? Really?

Precisely. Not sure what pride or prestige lies in flying to the city (or the land!) of many a anihilation faced by the favourite sons of the soil aka the men in blue (who occasionally wear white).

:cool:

more ridicule right here. they wanted to go to NYC via slovenia? I never knew...



http://www.balkans.com/open-news.php?uniquenumber=155096

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more ridicule right here. they wanted to go to NYC via slovenia? I never knew...



http://www.balkans.com/open-news.php?uniquenumber=155096

Hahahah! I think the Ljubljana story crops up again every time a NAM meeting is held. Must be a hangover of the Nehru-Tito "glory" days.

Nothing will come of it, so let's just get entertained and not bothered. That said, if AI were to look at going 1-stop to America instead of non-stop, then LJU wouldn't be the worst place to stop and have a scissors hub

more ridicule right here. they wanted to go to NYC via slovenia? I never knew...



http://www.balkans.com/open-news.php?uniquenumber=155096


they never did. This news is not from AI side but from some local fellows in Solvenia.

Well, 1-2 years ago AI managers went on a junket to Europe to see if any airport in the region was suitable to be a mini hub like 9W's BRU operation. Then someone realised that they have a few ULH 787 and 77L running the show in a few months which probably meant no hub in Europe required :facepalm:, so another research trip wasted :) Or maybe it was former IC management which wanted to order a few A332s and cancel the 787/77L order. :D

Well, 1-2 years ago AI managers went on a junket to Europe to see if any airport in the region was suitable to be a mini hub like 9W's BRU operation. Then someone realised that they have a few ULH 787 and 77L running the show in a few months which probably meant no hub in Europe required :facepalm:, so another research trip wasted :) Or maybe it was former IC management which wanted to order a few A332s and cancel the 787/77L order. :D

More likely, they wanted a free trip to Europe on company expense.

More likely, they wanted a free trip to Europe on company expense.

Can I blame them?
I would take that offer too!

Can I blame them?
I would take that offer too!

So you would take a trip to Europe (probably in J and staying in 5* accommodations) on money that could have been used to feed starving children? And you would sleep OK at night knowing that? :confused:

The thoughtlessness of some people is appalling. :rolleyes:

Well, 1-2 years ago AI managers went on a junket to Europe to see if any airport in the region was suitable to be a mini hub like 9W's BRU operation. Then someone realised that they have a few ULH 787 and 77L running the show in a few months which probably meant no hub in Europe required :facepalm:, so another research trip wasted :) Or maybe it was former IC management which wanted to order a few A332s and cancel the 787/77L order. :D

the former IC's intl plans were based on feeding DL/AF ops in CDG with A330 aircraft for connections to US and Europe. CCU, HYD and BLR apart from BOM and DEL were under consideration for CDG link. No other airport in Europe was under consideration.

Having accompanied official delegations on behalf of my paper, what typically we see is that local ministers in Sarajevo or Timbuctou typically put up a request for a BRU like consideration, and the Indian External Affairs minister will diplomatically promise to look into it. AI might send a team (typically paid for by airline/partner in other country) and send a report to ministry explaining how "hub not feasible in current market conditions. Future probability exists". :)

Atleast MALEV Airlines has paid for one such junket.

Remember DUB being the proposed AI TATL 'hub' in March 2011? :)

https://www.google.com/search?q=aiir+india+dublin+study&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&safe=active&client=firefox-a&hs=2M1&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&sa=X&ei=PyQ_UJWqLqWg4gS70oHwDA&ved=0CB0QvwUoAQ&q=air+india+dublin+study&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=bb0f12ad238bc1f7&biw=1680&bih=957

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Well, 1-2 years ago AI managers went on a junket to Europe to see if any airport in the region was suitable to be a mini hub like 9W's BRU operation. Then someone realised that they have a few ULH 787 and 77L running the show in a few months which probably meant no hub in Europe required :facepalm:, so another research trip wasted :) Or maybe it was former IC management which wanted to order a few A332s and cancel the 787/77L order. :D

More likely, they wanted a free trip to Europe on company expense.

Mais c'est pas vrai ! Impossible !

We've been told time and again and again and again that every one of AI's employees are paragons of complete and wholehearted dedication. That not a single one of them has ever done a single thing to contribute towards the airline's decline or its losses. Not once, not ever.

They are fantastic. Every one of them. Always. Any airline will be lucky to have them.

Everything that has ever gone wrong with AI is solely the fault of a succession of ministers and bureaucrats and paying passengers. And of Snow White and Mowgli.

And all that is a proven fact, as indicated by a source who is unimpeachable and backed up by irrefutable scientific conclusions.

And all that is a proven fact, as indicated by a source who is unimpeachable and backed up by irrefutable scientific conclusions.

looks like namedropping is not your style mate ;)

looks like namedropping is not your style mate ;)
Nope, it isn't. Because that would mean inventing a person too, instead of just a story. And that's just way too much effort ! :)

Nope, it isn't. Because that would mean inventing a person too, instead of just a story. And that's just way too much effort ! :)

But, but, but I thought at LEAST 90% of this board was on speed-dial with Mr. Nandan, if not actually smurf accounts created by the AI CMD himself :confused::confused:

But, but, but I thought at LEAST 90% of this board was on speed-dial with Mr. Nandan, if not actually smurf accounts created by the AI CMD himself :confused::confused:

You have it backwards... 90% are on Mr Nandan's speed dial :D