TalkBoard Topics - Create "Good Deal Economy" and "Good Deal Premium" forums

There are currently two growing threads under the "Mileage Run Deals (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals-372/)" forum:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals/1297067-good-deals-economy-class-excellent-fares-between-certain-city-pairs-2012-a.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals/1297066-good-deal-premium-fares-2012-a.html

Within each respective thread, it is common for discussions to stray off-topic. The off-topic discussions, along with the number of non-Mileage Run-quality "good deals" that are posted in these threads makes it very difficult to locate and discuss deals.

I would like to propose replacing the two "Good Deals" threads above with two new sub-forums (just like the "Mileage Run Discussion (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-discussion-627/)" forum) under the "Mileage Run Deals (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals-372/)" forum:
1) "Good Deals - Economy Fares" -and-
2) "Good Deals - Premium Fares"

--- edited on 8/17/12 to add the following alternative option....please provide feedback on which of the two options are preferred:
Replace the "Good Deals - Premium Fares" thread with a "Good Deals - Premium Fares" sub-forum under the "Mileage Run Deals" forum. Eliminate the "Good Deals - Economy Fares" thread, which will require all economy fare deals (regardless of CPM) to be posted in the "Mileage Run Deals" forum.
---

This will allow for much improved and efficient organization of "good deals" that are not quite mileage run material. Threads within these new forums could easily be moved over to the Mileage Run Deals forum if they reach a certain cpm (and vice versa).

This idea has been discussed at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals/1297066-good-deal-premium-fares-2012-a-111.html#post19130703, and I am posting this new Talkboard thread per the request of others in the thread above.

If this is approved, I'd also like to get feedback on whether it would make sense to publish a specific cpm number (3cpm, 4cpm, 5cpm?) that would determine whether a particular thread should reside in the "Mileage Run Deals" forum or one of the new "Good Deals" forums. Publishing a specific cpm standard for Mileage Runs (which could be modified periodically based on current airfare trends!) will make it very cut and try for people to understand where threads should reside. Currently, there is much confusion and unnecessary arguing between people believing certain threads should or should not be classified as a true Mileage Run.

If you get cpm in the heading - why bother with separate threads for "good deals"?? Ditch the current set up and simply have one forum for low fares: with cpm and class of travel in the header, readers can click on to any thread that attracts them - for whatever reason (MR or cheap trip).

The current set-up isn't at all helpful for quick scanning, and what is proosed would be even more cumbersome.

Okay, this may not be practical, but however the new thread(s) are created, it would be nice to find a way to sort the airport code of origin for the deal, eg, SFO, LAX, etc.

I'm not a business traveler, but I do like a good deal. Some of the jargon used in the good deals thread is above my limited traveler's knowledge. Like, what's a x-CPM?

Be gentle. ;)

If you get cpm in the heading - why bother with separate threads for "good deals"?? Ditch the current set up and simply have one forum for low fares: with cpm and class of travel in the header, readers can click on to any thread that attracts them - for whatever reason (MR or cheap trip).

The current set-up isn't at all helpful for quick scanning, and what is proosed would be even more cumbersome.

Good idea. However, I was under the impression that some FT'ers get frustrated when deals are posted in the MR forum that are not "true MR's" (whatever that means :rolleyes: ). I also like the idea of having a single forum for good deals and MR deals, though I'm concerned that others may become upset because "their" MR forum (again.... :rolleyes: ) is cluttered with non-MR deals. Also, the Good Deals - Premium Fares forum may need to be separate anyway, as that really is in a category of its own most of the time.

However, perhaps if it was easier to sort through the good fare deals, people wouldn't complain as much about seeing deals that don't meet their personal requirements for a MR.

If you look at a "hot deals" forum like http://slickdeals.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9 , you will see that their format is quite easy to use, and the quick/convenient access to the 1-thumb to 5-thumb rating scale and tagging of threads makes it very easy to locate the best deals. Slickdeals also supports deal alerts, which users can use to send an e-mail alert when certain parameters are met (specific text in thread title, categories, certain number of "thumbs up", etc.)

Adding all that functionality is likely outside the scope of this Talkboard thread (though it does deserve consideration IMO). However it would at least be helpful to have a field in the title for CPM (or fields for "cost" and "miles", and the software could auto-calculate the CPM). Allow that field to be sortable somehow, and as suggested above, allow fields for airport codes which can be sorted as well. Again, not sure how difficult that would be to set up, but it would be a HUGE help.

I personally believe the Mileage Run Deals forum has HUGE potential to gain additional FT users. Though for it to get to the next level of success, it really needs to have easy-to-use features/functionality specifically designed for the general purpose of finding good deals.

If this is approved, I'd also like to get feedback on whether it would make sense to publish a specific cpm number (3cpm, 4cpm, 5cpm?) that would determine whether a particular thread should reside in the "Mileage Run Deals" forum or one of the new "Good Deals" forums. Publishing a specific cpm standard for Mileage Runs (which could be modified periodically based on current airfare trends!) will make it very cut and try for people to understand where threads should reside. Currently, there is much confusion and unnecessary arguing between people believing certain threads should or should not be classified as a true Mileage Run.

a "good" CPM is extremely subjective here, as premium products differ so widely. Posters including route, carrier, cabin, and CPM in their thread titles is proper form and posters will have to decide what's post-worthy.

in general I support this push for separate fora or sub-fora for good deals. Most of the posts on the good deals threads are chatter related to particular deals; it's really inefficient to wade through this when scouting for fares. A risk in making these deals easier to see is, as in the trick it thread, increased exposure is perceived to cause deals to dry up more quickly.

I don't feel strongly about thread vs. forum, but posting CPM seems difficult. What if routing rules make something a great deal from the west coast but less so from the east? Etc. Plus you may think x CPM is a bad deal but I may take it because it's enough to requalify me for elite status (or whatever).

My two hockey pucks are to say no and leave things as they are (for now :)) simply because cpm is totally subjective in terms of what is a good cpm for one may not be a good cpm for another and if the current threads "stray", then it is up to the moderators to keep things flowing

I agree that categorizing threads based on CPM is not going to be easy. Living in TYO and accruing with NH, I have a much higher threshold for what is an acceptable CPM for a particular fare, especially if it is on NH metal (e.g. 6-8 JPY per mile, or 7.5-10 US cents per mile). I do think a separate subforum specifically for premium (F/C, maybe PY?) fares would be a good idea.

I would welcome the proposed change

proposed change would be beneficial to more easily find applicable good deal fares rather than having to scan thru all unread posts in the confines of a thread. would also make it possible to track deals without logging into website by utilizing RSS feed, which is how many users currently monitor MR thread. i see the addition of two new threads for good deals economy/premium as a welcome possibility.

This may (or not) be a good idea. In order to sway TalkBoard, you should also review the criteria for the consideration of new fora, as quoted elsewhere by TalkBoard Vice President SkiAdcock:


Talkboard is the place to request a new forum. As a TB member I'll ask you to do that we've asked others do when they're requesting a new forum - make a case for it.

Part of the way to do that is to answer the following questions.

The following are qualitative criteria that the TalkBoard believes are useful to consider when evaluating proposals to create, close, split, or move forums. Whenever a forum change is discussed on the TalkBoard Topics, the TalkBoard encourages posters to fully address these criteria in addition to any other reasons supporting or opposing the change.

1. Will the forum be (or is it now) beneficial to FlyerTalk?

2. Will the new forum benefit a relationship with FlyerTalk? E.g., does the forum provide value for FT members, such as a friendly ear highly placed in the company

3. Is FT the best place to discuss this subject?

4. Is there a passionate following? This is essential in order to provide dedicated expert helpers to get questions answered.

5. Is a critical mass of posts and readers anticipated or existing? We need adequate traffic to keep everyone visiting frequently. One living forum is more valuable than two mostly dead ones.

6. Is this the best place on FlyerTalk for this subject? This is the classification issue. The answer depends primarily on achieving and maintaining critical mass. It also depends on whether or where the discussion might (or does) occur in the absence of the forum.

7. For proposals to split a forum, is the split expected to improve the signal to noise ratio? Why?

Cheers.


There are currently two growing threads under the "Mileage Run Deals (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals-372/)" forum:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals/1297067-good-deals-economy-class-excellent-fares-between-certain-city-pairs-2012-a.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals/1297066-good-deal-premium-fares-2012-a.html

Within each respective thread, it is common for discussions to stray off-topic. The off-topic discussions, along with the number of non-Mileage Run-quality "good deals" that are posted in these threads makes it very difficult to locate and discuss deals.

I would like to propose replacing the two "Good Deals" threads above with two new sub-forums (just like the "Mileage Run Discussion (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-discussion-627/)" forum) under the "Mileage Run Deals (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals-372/)" forum:
1) "Good Deals - Economy Fares" -and-
2) "Good Deals - Premium Fares"

This will allow for much improved and efficient organization of "good deals" that are not quite mileage run material. Threads within these new forums could easily be moved over to the Mileage Run Deals forum if they reach a certain cpm (and vice versa).

This idea has been discussed at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals/1297066-good-deal-premium-fares-2012-a-111.html#post19130703, and I am posting this new Talkboard thread per the request of others in the thread above.

This may (or not) be a good idea. In order to sway TalkBoard, you should also review the criteria for the consideration of new fora, as quoted elsewhere by TalkBoard Vice President SkiAdcock:

Thanks for pointing this out. FWIW, I personally believe this idea passes most of the criteria.

Based on feedback so far, it seems that there are 3 options that are easy to implement:
1) Leave everything as-is, leaving the current two "Good Deals" threads within the "Mileage Run Deals" forum.
-or-
2) Replace the two "Good Deals" threads with new "Good Deals" sub-forums under the "Mileage Run Deals" forum. (Though it is still unclear to me how people would know whether to post a deal in the "Mileage Run Deals" forum, or in the "Good Deals - Economy Fares" sub-forum without specific cpm or other standards for users to follow.)
-or-
3) Replace the "Good Deals - Premium Fares" thread with a "Good Deals - Premium Fares" sub-forum under the "Mileage Run Deals" forum. Eliminate the "Good Deals - Economy Fares" thread, which will require all economy fare deals (regardless of CPM) to be posted in the "Mileage Run Deals" forum.

Any additional feedback/comments? Am I missing any other options?

I like the idea of a forum for these posts. ^^^ A single thread isn't very useful.

Similar to other forums, it might be nice to see a post count rule applied to access. Primary reason there is to stop new(er) members from posting stuff that doesn't belong.

I like the idea of 2 new forums. I would also not like to limit the deals to CPM since especially on the premium fares it is very subjective.
For people that are used to pay 5k+ to fly rFom the US to Asia a good deal might already be 3.5k which for other people that are more flexible where they go to this is way too high.
Same if you are locked into a high priced departure airport where a good deal threshold can be a lot higher then the generally accepted CPM's that are discussed a lot of times.
Just make sure the header contains the key information (departure airport, CPM, , total costs, airline etc.) so people don't need to spend time too much time reading if it won't hit their criteria.

I like the idea of 2 new forums. I would also not like to limit the deals to CPM since especially on the premium fares it is very subjective.
For people that are used to pay 5k+ to fly rFom the US to Asia a good deal might already be 3.5k which for other people that are more flexible where they go to this is way too high.
Same if you are locked into a high priced departure airport where a good deal threshold can be a lot higher then the generally accepted CPM's that are discussed a lot of times.
Just make sure the header contains the key information (departure airport, CPM, , total costs, airline etc.) so people don't need to spend time too much time reading if it won't hit their criteria.

If we go with the 2 new "Good Deals" forums and there is no CPM limit for posts in the MR Deals forum, how will people know whether to post a deal in the MR Deals forum or in the Good Deals forum? And how can we prevent people from getting flamed for posting something in the "wrong" forum without a published guideline for people to follow? (I'm not saying publishing a CPM is ideal, and I understand the desire to avoid a specific CPM target for the MR forum....I'm just concerned that FT users will continue to waste time getting upset with each other for posting in the "wrong" location, which ultimately requires more time and effort from the mods to prevent.)

:td::td:

There aren't enough Good Deal Premium Fares to warrant a separate forum on that subject with separate (very short) fares for that thread. And we don't need to make it any easier for the airlines or TA's to sniff out the good deals we find and kill them sooner rather than later.

Keep the forums as they are.

Id like to see a separate forum for good deal premium fares and as a leisure traveller the cpm don't really both me - its the fare that counts...

And another question.....

What's to prevent a "good deal" thread from being "mis-posted" in the regular mileage run forum and vv where the moderators have to then move (or decide to move or not move) the thread? I see this as creating more work for what in some cases could be a very short lived subject-yes some good fares are long lived but I just see this is creating more work for something that works well the way it is

I'm supportive of the new proposed forum structure.

I do not support creating a new forum for good deal premium travel. The existing thread doesn't get nearly enough traffic to warrant a separate forum, and I personally prefer being able to subscribe to the individual thread to get instant email notification of new posts.

I would, however, support creating a companion "Good Deal Premium Fare Discussion" thread in the "Mileage Run Discussion" forum. I think that there is a lot of chatter in the deals thread that would be better served in a separate thread.

The existing thread doesn't get nearly enough traffic to warrant a separate forum

Indeed, I hardly visit the "Good Deal s - Premium Fares" threads because they are so unwieldy. A forum would allow posts about similar fares to be strung together, making the useful information more easily accessible.

Furthermore - as many of these fares are valid for several years, a forum in which to discuss them would obviate the need for the current annual divisions.

Lastly - it would be handy to be able to find discussion about fares for places I'm interested in originating or visiting. With the current megathreads, it's simply too much of a headache to wade through. A sub-forum structure would help this.

I'm in support of a Premium Fares subforum.

I not a mileage runner plus I fly out of a small airport in Canada. The bulk of the discussion in Mileage Run Deals really isn't for me. However, I do frequent the Premium fares thread because I'm a leisure traveler always looking to save a few bucks in C class long haul flights.

I'm in favor of premium and economy deals sub-forums. The existing mega-threads are painful to peruse.

I support the new structure

I support the proposed structure as well. The current model for posting the premium fares is remarkably inefficient.

+1 for forums.

The current structure is far too disorganized. It's too easy for a useful post to be buried among discussions of others (or tangents). What is most frustrating to me is that it's almost impossible take a quick glimpse at what's new. You've got to sift through mounds of other posts to find those gems, and that defeats the spirit of FlyerTalk.

A setup similar to the Mileage Run forums would be most welcome.

I think this is a brilliant idea.

For me, 95% of the runs are irrelevant, however I still read up every day. Having a thread per run would greatly simplify the amount of noise I need to scan through to look for the interesting 5%.

I support 2 new forums... impossible to keep track of the threads.

I like the idea of 2 new forums. I would also not like to limit the deals to CPM since especially on the premium fares it is very subjective.
For people that are used to pay 5k+ to fly rFom the US to Asia a good deal might already be 3.5k which for other people that are more flexible where they go to this is way too high.
Same if you are locked into a high priced departure airport where a good deal threshold can be a lot higher then the generally accepted CPM's that are discussed a lot of times.
Just make sure the header contains the key information (departure airport, CPM, , total costs, airline etc.) so people don't need to spend time too much time reading if it won't hit their criteria.

+1 a very balanced and reasonable perspective

create two fora but do not create thresholds for CPM - too subjective (particularly for premium)

existing thread for premium is a headache with multiple conversations going on at one time - it really would be more useful as a forum

if you sort threads based on posts, the "Good Deals" near the top so no doubt it would be an attractive destination and I would suspect would get more posting, comments... if in a forum structure

Indeed, I hardly visit the "Good Deal s - Premium Fares" threads because they are so unwieldy....

Furthermore - as many of these fares are valid for several years, a forum in which to discuss them would obviate the need for the current annual divisions.

It is important to understand WHY these fares last for years. Part of the reason is BECAUSE they are buried in the threads and hard to weed out. You have fallen victim to the solution. In the same manner that the trick-it thread is hidden in the discussion forum, HIDING these fares HELP to keep the great fares alive.


I do not support creating a new forum for good deal premium travel. The existing thread doesn't get nearly enough traffic to warrant a separate forum, and I personally prefer being able to subscribe to the individual thread to get instant email notification of new posts.

I think this above poster has summed it up well. The status quo helps people passionate about these fares get their email updates. And because they are a frustrating layout is one of their reasons that some of these fares have some decent longevity.

To those who want the change, consider that designed forums may ruin the fares you're trying to organize.

We can call it the "Graveyard of Once Good Premium Fares forum" :D

I don't believe further dividing the MR topic would draw enough of a benefit to offset the confusion it would create.

I support a sub-forum for Premium Fares, simply because the current thread is unwieldy and impossible to concentrate a discussion on a single fare. We tend to have discussions in the thread about a particular fare and the actual premium fares get lost amongst those discussions and leads to a lot of moderator intervention.

A good analogy is the desk of a messy person. He likes it that way because he actually knows where every little thing is on his desk. But, most just find the desk cluttered and barely usable. If someone were to clean the desk, most will find it far better, but that messy person will be upset because now his system has been ruined and he can't find anything.

We need a clean de-cluttered forum for it to really be useable.

I think you don't understand why these threads are so successful...

I support a sub-forum for Premium Fares, simply because the current thread is unwieldy and impossible to concentrate a discussion on a single fare. We tend to have discussions in the thread about a particular fare and the actual premium fares get lost amongst those discussions and leads to...


This is the purpose of these threads. To have the fares exist AMONGST lots of clutter. That way, all members who spend a little bit of time can find them. Those who don't know, or are too lazy to dig (just pointing out, not pointing fingers) don't find them at all.... and many times the fare longevity is increased because of the clutter. In fact, I am in favor of not deleting the jibber jabber, as the off topic discussions make for perfect distraction material. :D

Just my opinion. It ain't broke, don't fix it! :P

I think you don't understand why these threads are so successful...




This is the purpose of these threads. To have the fares exist AMONGST lots of clutter. That way, all members who spend a little bit of time can find them. Those who don't know, or are too lazy to dig (just pointing out, not pointing fingers) don't find them at all.... and many times the fare longevity is increased because of the clutter. In fact, I am in favor of not deleting the jibber jabber, as the off topic discussions make for perfect distraction material. :D

Just my opinion. It ain't broke, don't fix it! :P

The real "meat' in the premium fares thread are often culled by the bloggers and thus I really question whether having them buried is what really keeps them going. I think keeping the status quo because it is cluttered and messy and thus provides protection against misuse of the contents is a far stretch. The same buried fares will be several pages off the main thread page if there were a new sub-forum, accomplishing much of the same goal, but at least it is more usable and organized.

In my ideal world the Good Deal Premium Fares would be a restricted sub-forum that had certain requirements to get access to, such as being a person that has contributed a good deal premium fare. What bothers me more than anything are people always take and never give, they are often the people that also call the airlines and do other things to kill the deal as they are takers and not givers, i.e. only out for themselves.

I think splitting things up further would create more confusion than it would solve. And, although there is some discussion "about" the fares (rather than just posting the good deals) in the existing thread, I don't think there's so much of it that a new forum is needed.

Remember, if a new forum is created, then every single fare will need its own thread. That seems like overkill, especially when lots of these fares generate only 1 or 2 posts.

I think splitting things up further would create more confusion than it would solve. And, although there is some discussion "about" the fares (rather than just posting the good deals) in the existing thread, I don't think there's so much of it that a new forum is needed.

Remember, if a new forum is created, then every single fare will need its own thread. That seems like overkill, especially when lots of these fares generate only 1 or 2 posts.

Why overkill if we do this for every other fare/route in the main forum?!

Why overkill if we do this for every other fare/route in the main forum?!

And this is exactly the point.

The main MR forum is organized very well for economy-class. Since Premium Fares are more expensive, they seldom fit into the narrow (though appropriate) CPM vision that guides those posts.

For example, a $1300 one-way fare from CMB to LAX wouldn't meet the normal criteria for a MR. However, if it's for First-class travel on EK, the subject remains interesting.

I've spent a fair bit of time looking for information about good-deal fares from Southeast Asia to South America (or indeed, to anywhere else, provided I could insert a stopover in Brazil). My feeling is that FT must have some good info about fares for this purpose (maybe one of the ex-CMB fares that's very liberal in its MPM). But search terms for this aren't so obvious, and I haven't been able to successfully navigate the 1000s of pages of single-year threads to find it otherwise.

[I've even tried setting the forum to "print mode," in the hope that I could get 1000 posts on a page, allowing for quick searching. But as FT limits this to 40 posts - which makes for a mindnumbing amount of clicking to find what I need. There must be a better way.]

To be clear: I'm not looking for ephemeral mistake fares - but rather, "Good Deal Premium Fares."

In short, a forum structure, rather than a thread, would more easily allow me to find what I'm looking for.

i would personally read a premium deal forum, and i dont think im alone

i dont really look at any of those forums/threads right now, because i dont do mileage runs and id only be interested in flatbed deals

As is being discussed in the Premium Deals thread, one factor that would be critical to the success of such a forum would be the conditions of viewing. There is always much concern over deals (especially F/C deals) being killed after being posted on that thread, which tends to drive discussion underground. That is a shame, and a simple fix would be to only allow members with a certain number of posts / tenure / etc. to view such a thread/forum. If this system works for Coupon Connection, why can't it work elsewhere?

As long as this remains "broken", the Premium Deals thread won't really reach its full potential, IMO, and people will remain wary of posting anything for fear the airlines will move to correct it.

That is a shame, and a simple fix would be to only allow members with a certain number of posts / tenure / etc. to view such a thread/forum. If this system works for Coupon Connection, why can't it work elsewhere?

What's to prevent someone who is trying (knowingly or unknowingly) to "kill" the deals from getting to x posts and y days of membership fairly quickly, thereby gaining access to the special forum, and would just go about their business again? And how would you know if someone that was doing something to "kill" the deals didn't already have the x posts and y days met, so they could access it already?

This was the exact same argument when creating a forum inside Mileage Run with an x posts/y days restriction was debated here in the TB Topics forum a while back, and subsequently was not adopted. There were other factors as well, but this seemed to be the biggest reason to not create such a forum.

A separate forum would make it easier to quickly watch new fares pop up with Google Reader than the current subscription system seems to allow.

I doubt a private forum will truly stay private if the airlines want to invest themselves in patrolling FT for mistake fares.

a simple fix would be to only allow members with a certain number of posts / tenure / etc. to view such a thread/forum. If this system works for Coupon Connection, why can't it work elsewhere?

While I understand fully what you're saying CC is much more a straightforward swap meet with one-time items that have a fairly static and often limited value whereas fare deals can be milked for months or longer so can potentially hold a far greater value to the right person or group of people.

That said I've long lobbied for a minimum post count to view MR Deals forum as it never seemed to be too much of an ask to require enrolling and signing on to view what we regard as having value. That is only MHO and it's okay that YMMV. :)

What's to prevent someone who is trying (knowingly or unknowingly) to "kill" the deals from getting to x posts and y days of membership fairly quickly, thereby gaining access to the special forum, and would just go about their business again? And how would you know if someone that was doing something to "kill" the deals didn't already have the x posts and y days met, so they could access it already?

The idea is not to stop deals from being killed -- that is impossible. Rather, the idea is to only allow contributing members of the community to have access to said deals, thus perhaps encouraging some responsibility around their distribution and discussion. It would also give other members more encouragement to post deals knowing that abuse, while not disappearing entirely, would likely diminish as a result of the more controlled audience.

Mistake fares will be noticed and corrected -- it's just a matter of time. (I once used an ex-Japan mistake fare that was not made public in blogs or forums as far as I could tell, and it was corrected within two weeks.) However, legitimate-but-cheap fares may remain extant for quite some time -- unless they are abused. The idea here is to reduce the potential for abuse from FT, which is why I agree with the idea of implementing some nominal threshold for viewing.

I support a sub-forum for Premium Fares, simply because the current thread is unwieldy and impossible to concentrate a discussion on a single fare. We tend to have discussions in the thread about a particular fare and the actual premium fares get lost amongst those discussions and leads to a lot of moderator intervention.

I agree--I also support splitting premium MR Deals into a separate sub-forum. I also agree that access restrictions would make sense: it isn't difficult for a dedicated, interested new member to reach the modest thresholds in place for other access-restricted fora.

I am pro a separate "Premium deals" forum. I have no well formed opinion on the economy deals but I am leaning towards "remove it and let Milage runs handle all"

I have the exact same view as armagebedar as to why there should be some kind of threshold.

There are many good deals that are not mistake fares. The economy deals are mostly for the fast moving crowd, but for premium deals we (the participants) often need a bit more time to find out if it can fit our needs. Knowing that the thread is not wide open and so non-mistakes good-deals will live a bit longer would only be a good thing.

A premium mistake-fare (presumably short-lived ) could easily fit into the normal thread of milage runs instead.



Making Premium deal into a forum would also open up for some more structure. With some help of moderators the main thread of premium deals could keep focus on the deals and specific discussions around them, while more general discussions could move to better places.

Added to above - I am here assuming that the new forum would still include a master "Premium deals" thread. If the intention is to make every deal a separate thread, I am against the proposal.

There are many good deals that are not mistake fares. The economy deals are mostly for the fast moving crowd, but for premium deals we (the participants) often need a bit more time to find out if it can fit our needs. Knowing that the thread is not wide open and so non-mistakes good-deals will live a bit longer would only be a good thing.

A premium mistake-fare (presumably short-lived ) could easily fit into the normal thread of milage runs instead.



Agreed, I find myself mulling over these premium deals for a few days. Would prefer a bit more restricted access for those with a set minimum post count.

....

Added to above - I am here assuming that the new forum would still include a master "Premium deals" thread. If the intention is to make every deal a separate thread, I am against the proposal.

I read (and add when I can) to premium deals. The reality is there are not a lot of posts to this thread. 1,850 for the year so far... on pace for 2,400-2,500.

Making this thread a forum will mean clicking up down into individual threads for 1-2 posts and probably a lot of redundancy. e.g. a deal on Delta from east coast cities is a post. When AA matches, some one could post in a new thread, or post in the "Delta thread"... and what happens when the midwest cities are added to the deal? More threads or add to existing thread(s).

I would suggest leaving Premium as-is.

After some more thought one issue I have is that the premium deals thread gets very cluttered with discussions that are sometimes helpful but nevertheless the relation between a premium fare deal vs added discussions is probably 1:10, for 1 deal u get at least 9 more posts with questions or other issues.
Is there a way to keep the deal from the discussions a little more separated ? Its probably not easily possible in the existing structure but what would help is to have the deals in one thread and if I want to read or follow up on discussions for this particular deal then click through to them.

Mileage run deals needs to be restricted to members who are signed in.

Friday afternoon is a s-l-o-w day - yet at this moment, 1649 hrs / 4:49 PM Pacific on Friday, 28 Sep 2012, we have 281 (110 members & 171 guests) browsing the Mileage Run Deals Forum.

I am not a denizen of that forum, but it may say something to those of you discussing the pros and cons, whether the MRD forum should be open only to those signed in or / and only to those with 180 days / 180 posts.

Friday afternoon is a s-l-o-w day - yet at this moment, 1649 hrs / 4:49 PM Pacific on Friday, 28 Sep 2012, we have 281 (110 members & 171 guests) browsing the Mileage Run Deals Forum.


Likely thanks to the still glowing embers of another ex RGN deal fire sale which blew up last night and is only dying down now it's been pulled.

The Forum seems to get more action than we might otherwise believe. Slow Saturday noonish Pacific and yet - 256 (83 members & 173 guests).

1 member to 2 guests; wow!

Likely thanks to the still glowing embers of another ex RGN deal fire sale which blew up last night and is only dying down now it's been pulled.

The Forum seems to get more action than we might otherwise believe.
Sure. With quite possible emerging of something like closed elite, so to say "Inner Party" (see Orwell's "1984") it's well worth to listen if / how do I get in ;-)

On topic: Speaking seriously, except massive real life personal checks (probably unaffordable to FT) there will be no way to keep out airline representatives anyway, should they wish to join such closed society. Or to detect if / when somebody might simply make some offer to hypothetical already existing member... Pardon me being maybe too skeptical.

On topic: Speaking seriously, except massive real life personal checks (probably unaffordable to FT) there will be no way to keep out airline representatives anyway, should they wish to join such closed society. Or to detect if / when somebody might simply make some offer to hypothetical already existing member... Pardon me being maybe too skeptical.

No matter how secretive such a forum is, we always will face the risk that popular bloggers will catch wind of it and post it in a far less private venue for the world to see. Many of the top bloggers have high post counts, so post-count restrictions are moot. Banning people from sharing the information they learn is unenforceable.

I'm pro-additional forums as it'd improve organization (and mean I don't have to sift through a massive good deals thread periodically).

I'm for creating the forums if they are hidden until members have proven some staying power, like 1000 posts.

A great premium deal deserves to be shared. Since it will be pulled anyway, share it before it dies.

What use is keeping something like the RGN fare a secret? People won't book more than 1 or 2 of those. It requires positioning to a fairly unusual place.

Why not let others find it, on a limited basis, until it is pulled?

I'm for creating the forums if they are hidden until members have proven some staying power, like 1000 posts.


Careful as so high a threshold would disqualify you. ;)

Careful as so high a threshold would disqualify you. ;)

I'll take that risk. I don't post a lot, but I'm really not worried about reaching 1000

I'll take that risk. I don't post a lot, but I'm really not worried about reaching 1000

I could always go to some PWP :rolleyes:

I am neither advocating pro or con, merely passing on some observations.

Airline personnel already monitor fora limited to 180 / 180 posters, such as The Coupon Connection. There is no doubt they are here. But what might be debatable is how often they check in, and how many would actually register (one can lurk the forum already without even signing up or in), and how many would actually register and persist sufficiently.

I don't know those answers, obviously; it's merely grist for the mill.

I also don't know if a very high posts/days threshold would be contemplated, as it might not be in synch with what FT does already.

Sure. With quite possible emerging of something like closed elite, so to say "Inner Party" (see Orwell's "1984") it's well worth to listen if / how do I get in ;-)

On topic: Speaking seriously, except massive real life personal checks (probably unaffordable to FT) there will be no way to keep out airline representatives anyway, should they wish to join such closed society. Or to detect if / when somebody might simply make some offer to hypothetical already existing member... Pardon me being maybe too skeptical.

Friday afternoon is a s-l-o-w day - yet at this moment, 1649 hrs / 4:49 PM Pacific on Friday, 28 Sep 2012, we have 281 (110 members & 171 guests) browsing the Mileage Run Deals Forum.

I am not a denizen of that forum, but it may say something to those of you discussing the pros and cons, whether the MRD forum should be open only to those signed in or / and only to those with 180 days / 180 posts.

The Forum seems to get more action than we might otherwise believe. Slow Saturday noonish Pacific and yet - 256 (83 members & 173 guests).

1 member to 2 guests; wow!

FWIW - I've been checking normal forums like United, American & quite a few others in the last week or so. As far as I can tell it's actually the norm for there to be more guests than members, and in some cases it can be 3-4x the amount (depending on the forum). Those forums don't have entry requirements. Just means FT gets a lot of visitors, whether they're logged in or not. We've even had some contributing FT members mention they don't always log into FT when they peruse forums. I don't actually understand that, but to each their own.

Cheers.

We've even had some contributing FT members mention they don't always log into FT when they peruse forums. I don't actually understand that, but to each their own.
It's rather normal behavior not to log in unless it's absolutely necessary (that is, not to expose your passwords) when working from public terminals like from lounges in airports and hotels.

It's rather normal behavior not to log in unless it's absolutely necessary (that is, not to expose your passwords) when working from public terminals like from lounges in airports and hotels.

Ah - that makes sense to me (although I've always done it anyway!). Thanks.

Cheers.

My initial impression is that a Good Deal Premium and Economy fares forum is a great idea.

I am also initially in favor of a 180/180 and logged in restriction.

That said, I am open to all input on the issue.

THAT said, the sooner we make a decision about this the better, because the premium deal mega thread is impossible to read any more. ^

My initial impression is that a Good Deal Premium and Economy fares forum is a great idea.

I am also initially in favor of a 180/180 and logged in restriction.

That said, I am open to all input on the issue.

THAT said, the sooner we make a decision about this the better, because the premium deal mega thread is impossible to read any more. ^

I'm confused. :confused: You voted not to require a simple log-in for the Mileage Run forum, but now you want to restrict this potential new forum to both logged in & 180/180.

Cheers.

I'm confused. :confused: You voted not to require a simple log-in for the Mileage Run forum, but now you want to restrict this potential new forum to both logged in & 180/180.

Cheers.
The most important thing, i think, is to get a great deal fares forum up and running because, as whimike says, the premium deal thread is too unwieldy to use and the actual good data is mined by bloggers who present them clutter-free. That's a lose-lose for Flyertalkers.

My initial thinking regarding thresholds is that armagebedar makes a good point. It's not about mistake fares; it is about legitimate fares that might burn out fast in an open forum. But I am nowhere near dead set on that.

Mostly I just think the forum is needed.

A city-specific search capability, along with ability to tag a fare post with the cities to which it applies, would help a lot. It should be better than trying to organize a new forum.

As to good deal economy fares for the purpose of travel (a novel idea, I know) rather than collecting EQMs, we have this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/southwest-rapid-rewards/1356775-index-distance-based-sale-threads.html

Also, when Southwest runs one of these sales (typically twice per year) the other airlines tend to match for Southwest's routes, allowing the EQM collectors to benefit.

The most important thing, i think, is to get a great deal fares forum up and running because, as whimike says, the premium deal thread is too unwieldy to use and the actual good data is mined by bloggers who present them clutter-free. That's a lose-lose for Flyertalkers.

My initial thinking regarding thresholds is that armagebedar makes a good point. It's not about mistake fares; it is about legitimate fares that might burn out fast in an open forum. But I am nowhere near dead set on that.

Mostly I just think the forum is needed.

I don't really follow mileage run or premium deals, so will take your word for it that the thread is unweildy. However, in reading this thread there seem to be an equal # for or against, with both making some valid points & also questions on which would qualify & which wouldn't.

Cheers.

I read (and add when I can) to premium deals. The reality is there are not a lot of posts to this thread. 1,850 for the year so far... on pace for 2,400-2,500.

Making this thread a forum will mean clicking up down into individual threads for 1-2 posts and probably a lot of redundancy. e.g. a deal on Delta from east coast cities is a post. When AA matches, some one could post in a new thread, or post in the "Delta thread"... and what happens when the midwest cities are added to the deal? More threads or add to existing thread(s).

I would suggest leaving Premium as-is.

I'm going to leave aside the discussion of whether some or all of the MR forums should be put behind a wall of some sort, as we've had that discussion several times and I'm not sure talking about it here will add to the discussion.

But I did want to point out the post above by 110pgl.

I've been following the Good Deal Premium Fares 2012 thread ever since the $700 fare to BOG was posted (which yielded an almost-MR-worthy CP-EQ-M). I'm not really sure why I still follow it, because nothing posted since is even remotely appealing to me (some of the fares discussed in that thread are as much as I've spent for the entire year to earn UA 1K and AS MVPG). I guess I'm still hoping that by following that thread, I won't miss another one of those spectacular deals like BOG.

But it's been an interesting exercise to see what a few FTers consider to be good deals on premium fares and read the discussion. But that's the key word: a few FTers. Even if a dedicated forum were to increase the volume of discussion by a factor of 3 as compared to that thread, I'm skeptical it'd reach the volume of posts necessary to create a self-sustaining discussion. As it is now, that thread pops up maybe a few times a week.

I'm not entirely opposed to the idea, but what is posted in that thread and what is proposed to be discussed in this forum is out of reach of the vast majority of FTers and won't, IMHO, hold broad appeal. If the slim minority of people to whom that forum will hold appeal are enough of a constituency to make the forum a vibrant place, then I'm happy--but I am skeptical that will be the case.

I'd love to see a "Good Fares Deal" forum......one where the posts are easily understood at first glance.

I really can't be bothered trawling through hundreds of posts full of riddles and nonsense to find out which routes the fares are for.

I'd love to see a "Good Fares Deal" forum......one where the posts are easily understood at first glance.

I really can't be bothered trawling through hundreds of posts full of riddles and nonsense to find out which routes the fares are for.

I totally agree. It would be so nice to have an easily read thread (say that five times fast). This would be a great addition.

Delta747

Can we please put this to a vote or get a moderator to cast a decision? I feel we are in perpetual limbo here...

I'd love to see a "Good Fares Deal" forum......one where the posts are easily understood at first glance.

I really can't be bothered trawling through hundreds of posts full of riddles and nonsense to find out which routes the fares are for.

The Good Deal Premium Fares forum would not have anything to do with the current Trick It thread (the one you're referring to with riddles and nonsense).

For discussion of non-trick mileage run-worthy fares, there's a place for that where things are discussed in a pretty-easy-to-understand manner: the Mileage Run Deals forum. No need for a separate forum in that case.

The Good Deal Premium Fares forum would replace the single Good Deal Premium Fares thread, which is a low-volume thread that discusses sales (and occasionally mistakes) for seats in the pointy end of the plane. It's not done in code, either.

This proposal doesn't address the Trick It thread, which would most likely continue to exist in the current Mileage Run Deals forum in a currently-obfuscated manner. If you just want to look for good deals without trying to trick the booking engines, simply continue to ignore the Trick It thread and watch the current Mileage Run Deals forum.

Can we please put this to a vote or get a moderator to cast a decision? I feel we are in perpetual limbo here...

I doubt it would pass if put to a vote now, so there's no reason to push for a vote.

The best way to get this pushed to a vote is to make a clear case that this would be a significant improvement for FlyerTalk and get several TalkBoard members supportive and fired up about the issue. So far, that hasn't happened, IMHO.

Note that moderators have nothing to do with forum creation or TalkBoard decisions.

Can we please put this to a vote or get a moderator to cast a decision? I feel we are in perpetual limbo here...
I agree. I am the OP here. What is the process to put this to a vote? Alternatively, if mods don't think the many reasons provided in this thread are compelling enough to put this to a vote, can/should this thread be locked?

I agree. I am the OP here. What is the process to put this to a vote? Alternatively, if mods don't think the many reasons provided in this thread are compelling enough to put this to a vote, can/should this thread be locked?
Please see the second half of my post just above yours for information on how to get this voted on.

I am not a moderator of this forum, but it is not regular practice to lock a thread just because a particular result was not achieved. I would rather this thread stay open as a logical place for anyone to contribute future thoughts on this subject, especially with a new TalkBoard about to be seated.