United MileagePlus (Consolidated) - Denied boarding reclassified as voluntary

In DTW right now. Was just on a flight trying to fly from DTW - ORD and sitting in my assigned seat. Getting ready to push back and the GA runs on board and says, Mr. $%$%#$ can you come with me.

We get out off of the plan and she tells me that she has to deny my boarding because I was one of the last people on the flight. I actually took this in stride because I am flying my first AA EXP flight this evening out of ORD and have plenty of time.

She asks me to wait in the gate area while she takes removes the jet bridge etc.

Upon coming over to me in the end she has me sign a form that says I was voluntarily removed from the flight. I told her I didn't volunteer and that she denied my board, her response "Well sir, this is the only way we can get you compensation."

I actually did not complain and I am not complaining now. Does this somehow seem flaky? A denied boarding is one thing, but to say I volunteered when I didn't is a complete lie.

Am I crazy?

Does this somehow seem flaky? A denied boarding is one thing, but to say I volunteered when I didn't is a complete lie.

Am I crazy?

Yes and no (in that order!). Sounds like the gate agent may have made a mistake and failed to realize the flight was oversold until the last minute. Hope you got his/her name for the email/letter that you should be sending..

Did you hear the gate agent soliciting volunteers? If the agent didn't seek volunteers before IDBing you, you ought to lodge a DoT complaint at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/CP_AirlineService.htm. You'll get a follow-up call from Houston within a week or two as the DoT compels UA to respond to your complaint.

In DTW right now. Was just on a flight trying to fly from DTW - ORD and sitting in my assigned seat. Getting ready to push back and the GA runs on board and says, Mr. $%$%#$ can you come with me.

We get out off of the plan and she tells me that she has to deny my boarding because I was one of the last people on the flight. I actually took this in stride because I am flying my first AA EXP flight this evening out of ORD and have plenty of time.

She asks me to wait in the gate area while she takes removes the jet bridge etc.

Upon coming over to me in the end she has me sign a form that says I was voluntarily removed from the flight. I told her I didn't volunteer and that she denied my board, her response "Well sir, this is the only way we can get you compensation."

I actually did not complain and I am not complaining now. Does this somehow seem flaky? A denied boarding is one thing, but to say I volunteered when I didn't is a complete lie.

Am I crazy?

Were you on stand by?

Did you get your cash/check compensation?

He signed the document saying he volunteered. At this point, I'm sure any investigation will show that yes he volunteered as is evidenced by his signature. I'm not sure where complaining to the DOT is going to get in that situation.

Almost everything about the new United seems "screwy" these days. Lots of Shenanigans going on with UA and I have little interest in flying them these days.

You were IDB. I would file a complaint and state you were coerced into signing. Big diff in compensation that you would receive

He signed the document saying he volunteered. At this point, I'm sure any investigation will show that yes he volunteered as is evidenced by his signature. I'm not sure where complaining to the DOT is going to get in that situation.

Sure, except that the signature was induced by the GA claiming that he would not get compensation otherwise. Certainly you are correct that the signature is strong evidence and of course OP should not have signed it - but it scares me how many other GAs might be pulling this BS on other pax who don't know any better / won't post about it on FT / aren't going to complain the DoT.

MHO: It's interesting.

The GA's attempt to keep your status off the DOT denied boarding list might result in a DOT complaint that if you offer compelling evidence could actually cause greater pain to UA if they are approaching the red zone.

Either way, the GA is off the hook, though....

Update: I just reviewed this thread. OK, now I get it. This was a weight and balance issue, am I right? Not just that she took you off the flight because you were last on? Because if the W&B was done before you got on and the slot will be lost if the ground crew has to re-do the paperwork, removing you was probably the quickest way to resolve. And, yes, she did do you a favor making you a volunteer after the fact. In advance, you would not have been boarded at all...

Did anyone occupy the seats that the OP was removed from? The story only says they were removed and then the gate agent ran down to move the jet bridge away from the plane. Maybe they just left out that pax went down with the GA to take those seats.

I also wonder if volunteers were solicited. They have to be before IDB is used.

Finally - IDB is usually used at the gate, not on the plane. Sounds to me like the agent really screwed this one up because people showed up late for the flight who also had confirmed reservations on it. At this point the GA should have denied them boarding for showing up too late (15 minute rule).

OP - were you standby on this flight and cleared onto it or did you have a confirmed seat from a ticket purchased in the past?

-RM

It sure sounds like an IDB.

Another good example of when saying, "I'm going to record this conversation, just so we are both on the same page" while pulling out your cell phone would have covered all the bases. Because, I'm not saying the GA did this whole thing with bad intent . . . but may not have known the correct protocol. Good luck.

You were IDB. I would file a complaint and state you were coerced into signing. Big diff in compensation that you would receive

Yes it was an IDB, but compensation is going to be dependent on the alternate arrangements that were made. How late did they get you to ORD?

Yes it was an IDB, but compensation is going to be dependent on the alternate arrangements that were made. How late did they get you to ORD?

If this was an express flight and a weight & balance issue the GA was right.

I'm not following along here.

I thought that IDB compensation was always higher than VDB compensation?

If true, then the GA flatly lied, not only about ability to get compensation, but also forcing into VDB to minimize compensation cost.

No?

I'm not following along here.

I thought that IDB compensation was always higher than VDB compensation?

If true, then the GA flatly lied, not only about ability to get compensation, but also forcing into VDB to minimize compensation cost.

No?

The GA actually did him a favor. IDB compensation for weight and balance issues in a small jet is $0. VDB actually got him something.

The GA actually did him a favor. IDB compensation for weight and balance issues in a small jet is $0. VDB actually got him something.

True dat.

See the DOT's "Fly Rights" in section 4 ("Overbooking"), the second part of the 4th exception: "on flights using aircraft with 30 through 60 passenger seats, compensation is not required if you were bumped due to safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints"

http://airconsumer.dot.gov/publications/flyrights.htm

If this was an express flight and a weight & balance issue the GA was right.

The vast majority of flights from DTW-ORD are smaller craft, hence weight and balance issues. GA may have been correct.

The GA actually did him a favor. IDB compensation for weight and balance issues in a small jet is $0. VDB actually got him something.

Are you sure? I got a VDB voucher from US a few years back because headwinds were too strong on PHL-IAH and they needed a few volunteers to reduce weight.

EmailKid

Are you sure? I got a VDB voucher from US a few years back because headwinds were too strong on PHL-IAH and they needed a few volunteers to reduce weight.

EmailKid

IDB = $0
VDB = Whatever the airline decides to give you

Yes it was an IDB, but compensation is going to be dependent on the alternate arrangements that were made. How late did they get you to ORD?

They removed the OP from the plane, unless he was flying standby..it would be IDB.

Just looked at what type of plane, looks like there was a 1030ish dep what was a 175 but the one after that which seems more likely at 105pm was a DC950

IDB = $0
VDB = Whatever the airline decides to give you

It just does not make sense that they would give you a voucher if they can bump you for free. Considering how many other bennies have been taken away, this seems to go the other way.

EmailKid

It just does not make sense that they would give you a voucher if they can bump you for free. Considering how many other bennies have been taken away, this seems to go the other way.

EmailKid

As much as some posters would try to have you believe otherwise, there are still some UA staff members who try to focus on customer service.

They removed the OP from the plane, unless he was flying standby..it would be IDB.

Just looked at what type of plane, looks like there was a 1030ish dep what was a 175 but the one after that which seems more likely at 105pm was a DC950

Seems then that yesterday was the 1st day COdbaUA started using DC-9s! Neither UA nor CO used DC-9s , DL or NW surely did

Just not enough info to know if 100% this was a IDB or not, did another passenger get on board? was it a weight issue? was the OP a SBY? etc etc until the OP comes back and lets us know theers no way to know what actually took place,imo

If this was an express flight and a weight & balance issue the GA was right.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking also--the GA pulled the last person but apparently didn't put anyone on. That sounds like they needed the pounds, not the seat and that makes it a no-compensation case.

I'm not following along here.

I thought that IDB compensation was always higher than VDB compensation?

If true, then the GA flatly lied, not only about ability to get compensation, but also forcing into VDB to minimize compensation cost.

No?

Not always. In fact, if they can get you to your destination within an hour of your originally scheduled time, they do not owe you anything for an IDB. Otherwise, it is based on the one way cost of your ticket. 2x the fare for delays between 1 and 2 hours (with max of $650), and 4x the fare for delays more than 2 hours (with max of $1300). Given how cheap flights between DTW and ORD can be, you may be much better off with a VDB voucher.

Assuming this is actually an IDB situation and not a weight and balance issue.

OP needs to provide more information. What was the aircraft size & how much of a delay was occasioned by the bump?

This was an IDB because OP was removed from the flight without his agreement. But, depending on the size of the aircraft and the length of delay occasioned by the bump, the compensation due could be anywhere from $0 to $1,300 (paid in cash).

If the IDB would have been $0, the GA did OP a favor by turning this into a VDB (which it wasn't).

For what it's worth, the "V" means "voluntary." There is no fixed amount and it is whatever you agree to. It is generally paid in the form of vouchers, not in cash (check) and can also include other incentives such as a hotel, food, UG's and the like.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking also--the GA pulled the last person but apparently didn't put anyone on. That sounds like they needed the pounds, not the seat and that makes it a no-compensation case.

Long day of flying yesterday.......so, they did in fact pull me off the flight and gave the seat to someone else. I was originally on a different flight and paid for a flight change because I needed to get to Chicago to get my baggage and grab an AA flight.

EDIT: Both flights yesterday were RJs.

Funny thing is....on the second flight something screwy went on again....My boarding pass wouldn;t be taken by the machine because someone was in the seat already. It looks like they double booked the seat and they had to go onto the flight and pull someone off.

So, I got the short end of the stick on the first flight and someone else got the short end of the stick on the second flight.

Only a few UA reservations left until I switch to a competitor. I personally have never seen it this bad at UA and I think I went through some tough times in the 90s.

Yet another United MileagePlus (Consolidated) thread high on speculation and short on facts.

There is no where enough information provided for anybody to be making any reasonable decisions as to what happened.

Yet another United MileagePlus (Consolidated) thread high on speculation and short on facts.

There is no where enough information provided for anybody to be making any reasonable decisions as to what happened.

And yet the outcome is what matters, UA losing another long-time loyal and possibly fairly profitable customer. No wonder PRASM continues to lag.

As some of the more recent posts suggest, the GA may have given the OP the correct overall "bottom line".

We just don't know without more facts, including the a/c seating size and whether weight and balance issues were involved (although the OP's observation about giving the seat to another suggests that there may not have been a wt./balance issue). However, whether or not the OP was entitled to be compensated as an IDB, if the GA did not first seek volunteers, the DOT would likely consider this an IDB situation for statistical reporting and for enforcement purposes, even if OP was not entitled to IDB compensation.

There are indeed cases where the IDB compensation is far less than the typical VDB offer. One easy, mainline example: an A320 is oversold by 3 but all three are protected on the next flight scheduled to arrive at the ticketed destination 0:58 minutes after the oversold flight. IDB compensation will be zero; VDB comp. will be whatever offer is made and accepted by the pax. (i.e., $200 voucher). (See 14 C.F.R. sec. 250.6 (d).)

Some facts on DB's.

The kisok automatically solicits for volunteers when ever the flight is booked to some pre-programmed level. So the GA doesn't even have to make an announcement for UA to comply with DOT rules on solicitation for VDBs before IDBing someone.

When the is a downsizing of an aircraft the is no legal requirement to compensate anyone who is denied boarding. Travel credits may be offered as good will gesture.