Virgin Australia Velocity - VA thinks men are paedophiles?

Here's an interesting story:


A man traveling from to Brisbane from Sydney was asked to change his seats so he would no longer be next to two unaccompanied minors on a Virgin Australia flight.
A flight attendant asked 33-year-old Sydney fireman Johnny McGirr to switch seats with a woman after he was seated next to two young boys on an April flight, the Sydney Morning Herald reported. McGirr, who wrote about his experience in a blog post titled "My Virgin experience as a Paedophile!" said he was seated next to two boys he estimated to be ten years old.
He said he was approached and told he had to move. When he asked why, he was told, "Well, because you are male, you can't be seated next to two unaccompanied minors." He said he thought the request was sexist and discriminatory, but was told it was the airline's policy.
"As I collected my things from the seat pocket I could see people looking at me and wondering why I was being moved. I was red from embarrassment. I felt like I was being judged and found guilty of a crime I hadn't committed. It was an uncomfortable situation and I felt ashamed which was a weird feeling because I hadn't done anything wrong."
McGirr wrote to the airline to complain.
A spokeswoman for Virgin Australia confirmed the policy to the paper and said while the airline did not want to offend male passengers, its priority was the safety of children. "In our experience, most guests thoroughly understand that the welfare of the child is our priority," she said.
The spokeswoman told the newspaper that staff usually tried to keep the seat empty but, when that was not possible, a woman was seated next to the child.
On the airline's blog and on Twitter, Virgin Australia said: "We understand the concerns raised around our policy for children traveling alone, a long standing policy initially based on customer feedback.
"In light of recent feedback, we're now reviewing this policy. Our intention is certainly not to discriminate in any way."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/man-seated-next-unaccompanied-minors-forced-change-seats-155253173--abc-news-travel.html

Yup this is the policy airline wide. Not only va but even Singapore Airlines because there was an incident on their flight of a molestation. It's policy that a woman sit next to any unaccompanied minor. Whether that woman is a pedophile is another question!

It's sexist, but I'm sure it's what most parents with unaccompanied flying children would prefer.

Men should never be put in this situation however, the airline should ensure men aren't sitting next to unaccompanied children well before boarding. And if it does come up, they should offer the man an upgrade.

Of course the correct procedure is to block off the seat next to the UM and charge their parents or guardians.

It's sexist, but I'm sure it's what most parents with unaccompanied flying children would prefer.

Men should never be put in this situation however, the airline should ensure men aren't sitting next to unaccompanied children well before boarding. And if it does come up, they should offer the man an upgrade.How about if the person they assume is male, isn't.
Or if said person has had government background checks approving them to work with children. http://www.careforkids.com.au/articlesv2/article.asp?ID=82

Of course the correct procedure is to block off the seat next to the UM and charge their parents or guardians.

Agree. Or, move the UMs rather than the pax, who understandably was made to feel as if he had done something wrong!

More and more airlines are starting to introduce this policy. But to be honest, this is the fault of the check-in agent. They should've checked if the person next to the UM was in fact a woman.

Agree. Or, move the UMs rather than the pax, who understandably was made to feel as if he had done something wrong! There was a very good in-depth item on ABC Nightline on Tuesday night about this. Apparently, the (alleged) comment from the FA to the female pax who was being moved next to the UM's was "He is not allowed to sit next to children", which was certainly derogatory to the male pax being moved.

Agreed, if it is their policy, it should be sorted out well before boarding, particularly since UM's have to be handled differently to other pax, plenty of time for them to re-arrange some seating.

Having said that though, as a gay male, who has passed Working With Children Checks in NSW, Qld and Victoria, I would take offence at the imputation that I was a paedophile. I am particularly sensitive to this though, since some people think that all gay men are paedophiles (I can't think of anything more repulsive). But I would still take offence at this policy, I have been screened by three state government agencies, all accessing the same national information, I am allowed to work with children at tennis tournaments, totally unsupervised, but I am not allowed to sit next to them on a flight? Totally bizarre.

Going off an a tangent, this is probably a good thing, I wouldn't WANT to sit next to UM's, they can be a pain, but that is not the point.

This policy really is a PITA.

Dave

Apparently, the (alleged) comment from the FA to the female pax who was being moved next to the UM's was "He is not allowed to sit next to children", which was certainly derogatory to the male pax being moved.
If it were me, I would certainly consider suing for defamation if that were said.

Going off an a tangent, this is probably a good thing, I wouldn't WANT to sit next to UM's, they can be a pain, but that is not the point.


In some other forums several people have expressed that they would gladly move for their own protection (from kids making stuff up, because it happens). I feel the same, however, I wouldn't be happy if they moved me from either a premium seat, most likely a bulkhead seat, or if they loudly forced me to move, and I would probably complain with their corporate offices because I was forced to move from a seat I had chosen in advance due to their obscure policy.

And if you're filing a complaint as the victim of such a policy, I'd say you have a better chance at getting a positive response if you're gay, just because "they implied I'm a pedophile because I'm gay and traveling alone" is a lot worse than "they implied I'm a pedophile because I'm a straight male and traveling alone". It won't change what happened, but I feel like you'd still have a stronger case, just because discriminating gay people nowadays is not good PR, whereas discriminating straight people will rarely go beyond a small article somewhere in the middle of the newspaper.

A few years back when I was 19, I got moved because some unaccompanied minor couldn't sit next to an "older man." It was a full flight, and they ended up sitting next to someone even older than I was..

A few years back when I was 19, I got moved because some unaccompanied minor couldn't sit next to an "older man." It was a full flight, and they ended up sitting next to someone even older than I was..

Turns out that that person was...


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/67/Herbert_-_Family_Guy.png/250px-Herbert_-_Family_Guy.png

More and more airlines are starting to introduce this policy. But to be honest, this is the fault of the check-in agent. They should've checked if the person next to the UM was in fact a woman.

What if the name was unisex like Chris?????

What they should do is just set up an unaccompanied minor row where the kids can entertain themselves. Put it in the back of the plane or near the part of the plan where the flight attendants are generally located (galley area)

In some other forums several people have expressed that they would gladly move for their own protection (from kids making stuff up, because it happens). I feel the same, however, I wouldn't be happy if they moved me from either a premium seat, most likely a bulkhead seat, or if they loudly forced me to move, and I would probably complain with their corporate offices because I was forced to move from a seat I had chosen in advance due to their obscure policy.

And if you're filing a complaint as the victim of such a policy, I'd say you have a better chance at getting a positive response if you're gay, just because "they implied I'm a pedophile because I'm gay and traveling alone" is a lot worse than "they implied I'm a pedophile because I'm a straight male and traveling alone". It won't change what happened, but I feel like you'd still have a stronger case, just because discriminating gay people nowadays is not good PR, whereas discriminating straight people will rarely go beyond a small article somewhere in the middle of the newspaper.

Here is the nightmare scenario....other than the sex charges....you paid a bit to upgraded to this aisle seat near the front of the plane only to have kids next to you. Do they get a refund???

As long as they sit me next to a 18+ female, petite, cute smile, and not dressed like they bought their clothes from a yard sale, MOVE ME! Don't want to be next to two little kids anyways, boy or girl.

Here is the nightmare scenario....other than the sex charges....you paid a bit to upgraded to this aisle seat near the front of the plane only to have kids next to you. Do they get a refund???

I hope they do, because as an Aerospace Engineering major I sure know how to scare people who are unfamiliar with airplanes.

Worst part of all is that they probably don't even have to pay the extra $49 or whatever it is for the legroom seats.

One thing I'm wondering, is if the affected passenger has to use one of those seats due to a medical condition (reduced mobility, leg injury, etc) and there's 5 UM's (assuming the plane is a 737 or an A320), who gets moved?

For further information, this is just a note that this strange policy is also being discussed in the TravelBuzz! forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1377934-q-male-pax-allowed-sit-next-ums-seems-ok-us-airlines.html) as a general discussion.

While I do not agree with this policy which seems to smack of blatant discrimination, it could at the very least be implemented discreetly to avoid unnecessary embarrassment on the part of the innocent man.

Unaccompanied minors are drama waiting to happen. I'd just as soon it happens to someone else.

Should we now seat Arab-looking men where the FA's can keep an eye on them? Is racial profiling despicable whereas sex profiling is not?

having been moved from a seat in J next to my wife to accomodate a YM brat for a 14 hr flight I can say this is totally true
Sucks big time and totally out of order

What do open-seating airlines like Southwest do?

My last SWA flight I picked a window next to two urchins, my primary criteria for seat opponents being smallness of size. I regretted this decision all the way from Spokane to Boise to Vegas. The girl, in the middle seat, bobbed and thrashed like a shark in a feeding frenzy, making the entire aisle quake. Just watching her constant movement out of the corner of my vision made me nauseous. The rest of her time was spent wrestling with her bro over the GameBoy.

Hear hear, let's have segragation!

Personally, I would have a hard time tolerating any of this and they would be finding me an upgraded seat... I am such a dangerous person -- here's my story:

Many a year ago, I would make sure I traveled to SFO (domestic USA) on specific flights because they were Transcontinental/Trans-Atlantic) 767s with three classes of seating but as transcon, only two classes of service. This way, I would always get at least a Business Class seat if I didn't get upgraded to Y. Anyway, sitting at the gate for my morning return from SFO after a good night of wining and dining around the city - I looked and felt my best (not)... But I was nicely dressed and not scary. I watched a man push a tandem stroller up to the gate counter and work with the agent while the contents of the limousine stretch stroller were tossed in all directions.

I watched two iterations of this mayhem - kids tossing stuff, Dad trying to work with the agent, your typical rude passengers butting in and or ignoring this harried gent. I couldn't take it any longer. I got up and walked over to the man, interrupted his conversation with the agent and said, "I am going to pull your stroller over here and entertain your kids while you take care of business..." I proceeded to pick up all the toys and pulled the stroller towards the gate door so that he could see me and I did my "daddy does best" with two perfect rambunctious strangers.

Upon taking my early boarding seat, to my surprise, Dad was seated next to me and the center threesome seats were two kids and "Mom"... who happened to also be a guy (another story but it was cool to see two dads with their twin girls and hear their story and how they got there...). Well, I said that I would take turns hanging with each girl so that The Dads could have some quality traveling time together. They did take me up on this for part of the flight and actually found that the break was necessary and appreciated.

Moral of the story - not all men are evil. Not all men hate kids. Not all male world travelers have no tolerance for kids on planes.

Me? I am a father of twin girls who were traveling from age 4 weeks old. Now 13 they have AA status. Over the years, plenty of compliments on my handling of my children and their behavior on planes, a couple of incidents with profound apologies, and only one threat from a passenger (whom I asked to step outside to settle the argument while at 10K ft.) to laughter and applause from the seats all around me while my Anna screamed bloody murder while we descended to LGA approach pattern after a 12 hour delay through ORD.

The point is - flying occurs in the public space. Flights are very temporary. We should all simply deal with it and move on. And, yes men can sometimes be great seat companions and very patient.

Personally, I would have a hard time tolerating any of this and they would be finding me an upgraded seat... I am such a dangerous person -- here's my story:

Many a year ago, I would make sure I traveled to SFO (domestic USA) on specific flights because they were Transcontinental/Trans-Atlantic) 767s with three classes of seating but as transcon, only two classes of service. This way, I would always get at least a Business Class seat if I didn't get upgraded to Y. Anyway, sitting at the gate for my morning return from SFO after a good night of wining and dining around the city - I looked and felt my best (not)... But I was nicely dressed and not scary. I watched a man push a tandem stroller up to the gate counter and work with the agent while the contents of the limousine stretch stroller were tossed in all directions.

I watched two iterations of this mayhem - kids tossing stuff, Dad trying to work with the agent, your typical rude passengers butting in and or ignoring this harried gent. I couldn't take it any longer. I got up and walked over to the man, interrupted his conversation with the agent and said, "I am going to pull your stroller over here and entertain your kids while you take care of business..." I proceeded to pick up all the toys and pulled the stroller towards the gate door so that he could see me and I did my "daddy does best" with two perfect rambunctious strangers.

Upon taking my early boarding seat, to my surprise, Dad was seated next to me and the center threesome seats were two kids and "Mom"... who happened to also be a guy (another story but it was cool to see two dads with their twin girls and hear their story and how they got there...). Well, I said that I would take turns hanging with each girl so that The Dads could have some quality traveling time together. They did take me up on this for part of the flight and actually found that the break was necessary and appreciated.

Moral of the story - not all men are evil. Not all men hate kids. Not all male world travelers have no tolerance for kids on planes.

Me? I am a father of twin girls who were traveling from age 4 weeks old. Now 13 they have AA status. Over the years, plenty of compliments on my handling of my children and their behavior on planes, a couple of incidents with profound apologies, and only one threat from a passenger (whom I asked to step outside to settle the argument while at 10K ft.) to laughter and applause from the seats all around me while my Anna screamed bloody murder while we descended to LGA approach pattern after a 12 hour delay through ORD.

The point is - flying occurs in the public space. Flights are very temporary. We should all simply deal with it and move on. And, yes men can sometimes be great seat companions and very patient. Love the post, but it doesn't really deal with an airline having a policy of not seating UM's next to adult male passengers.

We all KNOW that not all men travelling alone are paedophiles, yet airlines treat us as though we are.

I face this often as an openly gay male, sometimes people won't let their kids be around me unaccompanied (fortunately, NOT friends, if they did they wouldn't be friends). It gets back to an age-old preconception that all gay men like boys, hang on, we don't!

This airline policy is one which presupposes that there is a greater risk by seating a UM next to a male as opposed to a female, and this is just wrong.

About the ONLY possible justification for it is that a female passenger might be able to bring maternal instincts into it all to keep the kids amused, but this is being sexist, and can't be relied on in this day and age.

Having said all that, I do not want (I will actively avoid) sitting next to a UM, but I resent the implication that I am a threat to them, so therefore cannot sit next to them.

Dave

I was just thinking, in regards to the gate agent determining whether a passenger is a male or female, don't they already have that information when you buy your ticket now? In America anyhow.

"About the ONLY possible justification for it is that a female passenger might be able to bring maternal instincts into it all to keep the kids amused, but this is being sexist, and can't be relied on in this day and age."

Well Dave, I am female and have traveled with my three well behaved kids all over the world and will gladly entertain my future grandkids when the time comes. In the meantime I am happy sitting alone or with other adults and the last thing on my wishlist is to be pressed into babysitting UM's that the FA's don't have time for. They accept them as passengers, they are in charge.

Sure, it's sexist to have a man move from his seat because some men on a plane might be child molesters. It's just a sexist to assume a woman would not mind looking after children because that is what women do.

I would never complain about a cranky child because that can happen to any parent and it does not get more stressful than that. But I have no urge to intervene and make the booboo go away.

"About the ONLY possible justification for it is that a female passenger might be able to bring maternal instincts into it all to keep the kids amused, but this is being sexist, and can't be relied on in this day and age."

Well Dave, I am female and have traveled with my three well behaved kids all over the world and will gladly entertain my future grandkids when the time comes. In the meantime I am happy sitting alone or with other adults and the last thing on my wishlist is to be pressed into babysitting UM's that the FA's don't have time for. They accept them as passengers, they are in charge.

Sure, it's sexist to have a man move from his seat because some men on a plane might be child molesters. It's just a sexist to assume a woman would not mind looking after children because that is what women do.

I would never complain about a cranky child because that can happen to any parent and it does not get more stressful than that. But I have no urge to intervene and make the booboo go away. I agree with you, I was just saying that it could be one of the reasonings airlines use (albeit sub-conscious).

Dave

British Airways have a similar policy, it was reported in the press here some time ago.

I was just thinking, in regards to the gate agent determining whether a passenger is a male or female, don't they already have that information when you buy your ticket now? In America anyhow.Not always. Secure Flight requires gender as appears on the ID used. That gender, for several reasons, may not be the persons actual gender.