United MileagePlus (Consolidated) - No more NS from IAH to Carib?

I was looking at doing a short trip to somewhere in the Caribbean out of IAH soon, but it looks like United no longer does non-stops to anywhere except Belize and some of the Mexico destinations. Is this a seasonal thing or merger issue?

It seems like there used to be tons of non-stops to a number of different places in the Bahamas, Jamaica, PR, DR, Grand Cayman, etc. but I can't seem to find any that don't route through CLTor EWR. I have normally done these trips in the spring time, but I didn't think the late summer/early fall would be such a down season that they would drop flights.

Switched them all to ORD & IAD. Makes no sense since IAH is the southern most hub & in the center if country. Perhaps it's UA's way to punish Houston

Switched them all to ORD & IAD. Makes no sense since IAH is the southern most hub & in the center if country. Perhaps it's UA's way to punish Houston

Houston had the audacity to allow Southwest to build an international terminal at Hobby with $100 million of their own money, so you have to connect ORD, IAD or EWR now.

Or fly American through DFW or MIA..

Ha, wow. United bends over backwards to screw Houston.

Switched them all to ORD & IAD. Makes no sense since IAH is the southern most hub & in the center if country. Perhaps it's UA's way to punish Houston

Trying to figure out the thought process behind this move. Does it have to do with having more facilities in one location versus another?

Not a change I understand (or like). But I'm guessing someone smarter and more informed than me made those decisions.

Most of the flights are not 7 days a week. Maybee try searching a different date?

I was looking at doing a short trip to somewhere in the Caribbean out of IAH soon, but it looks like United no longer does non-stops to anywhere except Belize and some of the Mexico destinations. Is this a seasonal thing or merger issue?

It seems like there used to be tons of non-stops to a number of different places in the Bahamas, Jamaica, PR, DR, Grand Cayman, etc. but I can't seem to find any that don't route through CLTor EWR. I have normally done these trips in the spring time, but I didn't think the late summer/early fall would be such a down season that they would drop flights.

Late summer to early fall is the slowest part of the year for these destinations and also smack in the middle of hurricane season. During this time, IAH-SJU/POS run daily and MBJ/GCM are on Saturdays. AUA is gone with the latest round of cuts, but in the Winter 2012/Spring 2013 schedules, there are frequency increases on the year-round destinations. NAS/BON nonstops from IAH are seasonal.

Not a bad Caribbean portfolio for a southern hub. Most traffic to the Caribbean from the US is generated on the East Coast, which is why EWR/IAD have the majority of service.

Hope Southwest seizes the opportunity. Don't want to fly to New York just to fly back to the Caribbean.

I recently flew IAH to AUA on US via CLT. The summer morning I flew from CLT to AUA, US had THREE non-stops CLT to AUA that day and UA can't manage one from Houston?

Hope Southwest seizes the opportunity. Don't want to fly to New York just to fly back to the Caribbean.

I don't think you even can in many cases. The EWR-Caribb flight tend to leave early, you'd have to overnight in EWR.

The flights only work for East Coasters with short hops to EWR or West Coasters who redeye in.

I recently flew IAH to AUA on US via CLT. The summer morning I flew from CLT to AUA, US had THREE non-stops CLT to AUA that day and UA can't manage one from Houston?

The market just isn't that big. There is some oil traffic, but not enough to support the service in its own right. Bonaire gets a weekly flight in season. Moreover, there isn't much traffic to AUA originating on the West Coast. Those regions clearly prefer Hawaii and Mexico for leisure travel. This explains why CO/UA has been in and out of IAH-AUA since the mid 90s.

CLT captures traffic originating in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic, two regions which generate the vast majority of passengers to Aruba. By virtue of its geography, IAH can't do that.

I don't think you even can in many cases. The EWR-Caribb flight tend to leave early, you'd have to overnight in EWR.

The flights only work for East Coasters with short hops to EWR or West Coasters who redeye in.

Exactly. The EWR-Caribbean markets are overwhelmingly O&D-oriented, with a smattering of connecting traffic from the West Coast, Northeast and Europe (most requiring overnight stays westbound).

CLT, ATL and MIA are better transfer hubs to the Caribbean than anything former CO had to offer.

Switched them all to ORD & IAD. Makes no sense since IAH is the southern most hub & in the center if country.

Checked a map lately??

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=iah-aua;iad-aua;ewr-aua%0d%0aiah-gcm;iad-gcm;ewr-gcm%0d%0aiah-sdq;iad-sdq;ewr-sdq%0d%0aiah-uvf;iad-uvf;ewr-uvf&MS=wls&MR=240&MX=540x540&PM=b:disc7%2b%22%25t%25+%28N%22

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=iah-aua%3Biad-aua%3Bewr-aua%0D%0Aiah-gcm%3Biad-gcm%3Bewr-gcm%0D%0Aiah-sdq%3Biad-sdq%3Bewr-sdq%0D%0Aiah-uvf%3Biad-uvf%3Bewr-uvf&MS=wls&DU=mi


IAH AUA 2020 mi
IAD AUA 1877 mi
EWR AUA 1957 mi

IAH GCM 1145 mi
IAD GCM 1374 mi
EWR GCM 1534 mi

IAH SDQ 1799 mi
IAD SDQ 1489 mi
EWR SDQ 1557 mi

IAH UVF 2462 mi
IAD UVF 2008 mi
EWR UVF 2021 mi


I just picked a few but feel free to suggest some others where IAH really is closer. I think you'll be hard pressed to do so.

Trying to figure out the thought process behind this move. Does it have to do with having more facilities in one location versus another?

I'm sure some of it is putative against Houston for allowing WN an international flight or two to Mexico. Jeffy & Co. are grabbing back all their toys and sulking in the corner.

I'm sure some of it is putative against Houston for allowing WN an international flight or two to Mexico. Jeffy & Co. are grabbing back all their toys and sulking in the corner.

I think the point is that some of these routes were marginal to consistent money-losers anyway. With international WN flights coming to depress marginsin some key international markets, there is no reason to keep such routes around for three more years, hoping the improve or are at least able to tread water while the rest of the hub thrives.

Don't underestimate WN's impact to UA in the Houston market, though. There will be many more than 'an international flight or two' and odds are they will be to major, high-margin international destinations where UA is very profitable (think MEX/SJO/PTY/GUA/SAL). While the effect may not be nearly as great as demonstrated by UA in their opposition to the WN expansion, it will be sufficient to cause some measure of damage to the hub's profitability, without a doubt. You cannot fault them for at least attempting to defend their turf.

Checked a map lately??

IAH AUA 2020 mi
IAD AUA 1877 mi
EWR AUA 1957 mi

IAH GCM 1145 mi
IAD GCM 1374 mi
EWR GCM 1534 mi

IAH SDQ 1799 mi
IAD SDQ 1489 mi
EWR SDQ 1557 mi

IAH UVF 2462 mi
IAD UVF 2008 mi
EWR UVF 2021 mi


I just picked a few but feel free to suggest some others where IAH really is closer. I think you'll be hard pressed to do so.

Yeah, but the point is the connections from at least half the country; going up to the northeast to get to the southeast is a pointless diversion.

SFO-IAH-SDQ: 3430 miles
SFO-EWR-SDQ: 4120 miles

SAN-IAH-SDQ: 3100 miles
SAN-EWR-SDQ: 3980 miles

And let's not forget the 26 million Texans who might want to visit the Carribbean as well:
IAH-SDQ: 1799 miles
IAH-EWR-SDQ: 2960 miles

we still fly IAH-SJU/MBJ/POS in addition to BZE and Mexico destinations. Not all flights are daily as stated earlier, and you are also entering into the slowest travel period of the year.

And let's not forget the 26 million Texans who might want to visit the Carribbean as well:


There are 1.3 billion Chinese who might want to visit the Caribbean as well... should someone start a PEK-SJU flight? ;)

The only answer is that the Texas-Caribbean market is not huge. It is clear that the Gulf Coast, Florida, Mexico and Central America generate more leisure traffic from Texas than the Caribbean. Between UA and AA nonstop, as well as the plethora of connecting opportunities via CLT, MIA and ATL, the market appears to be adequately served.

Not a change I understand (or like). But I'm guessing someone smarter and more informed than me made those decisions.

It's a change AA will like. The most important use of a hub in the Southern states is for flights to S & C America as well as the Carribean. Why would ANYONE who lives anywhere in the South now fly UA to the Carribean? They can all fly AA thru DFW or MIA instead if having to go all the way as North as psbl (close to it) (EWR/IAD/ORD). Most people like to fly w who they get miles from, but most people find schedule & price MORE important. Even if I lived in Houston (unless they kept the nonstops) I would rather fly AA thru MIA instead if all the way N to ORD just to go S again

This is one of the dumbest moves I've ever seen UA make

This is one of the dumbest moves I've ever seen UA make

Hyperbole much? This is the slowest travel time of year, during hurricane season, and we are talking about a handful of leisure destinations that rarely saw daily service anyway, except during the Spring Break.

By the way, the only route that appears to be cut is AUA. All others are maintaining at least weekly service, which increases during the busy season.

It's as though people deliberately ignore reality just because it's more fun to complain about another purported United blunder...

And let's not forget the 26 million Texans who might want to visit the Carribbean as well:


There are 1.3 billion Chinese who might want to visit the Caribbean as well... should someone start a PEK-SJU flight? ;)

The only answer is that the Texas-Caribbean market is not huge. It is clear that the Gulf Coast, Florida, Mexico and Central America generate more leisure traffic from Texas than the Caribbean. Between UA and AA nonstop, as well as the plethora of connecting opportunities via CLT, MIA and ATL, the market appears to be adequately served.

Or there is not much traffic from Texas to the Caribbean because it is so difficult to get to relative to Mexico etc. A big problem is that CO only had service once or twice a week from Houston. This makes things pretty difficult to work with. The problem might be eased if they had a code share partner they worked with. If course CO was "too good" to work with US. Now that they've morphed in to UA they codeshare on the flight but price it in the stratosphere. So guess what? People go elsewhere. What a shock--the service doesn't go well :rolleyes:

If course CO was "too good" to work with US.

Where do you get that notion? United had extensive codesharing with US to leverage its presence in the South and in the Northeast after they essentially exited the market in the early 2000s.

On the other hand, CO service to these markets was stronger, so by placing a CO code on more US services, they would essentially be competing with themselves. There is no revenue sharing with a codeshare, it's strictly a marketing relationship. If CO saw tremendous traffic flowing over CLT to the Caribbean, they would likely grow service. On the other hand, the business case for stimulating demand to a low-yield, highly seasonal market is tenuous at best.

The strategy of growth to higher-yield, high-volume VFR and business markets in Central America from IAH has worked out much better for the airline, and presently is the best-performing region for United.

Frustrating isn't it? It's the reason I'm flying RDU-IAH-PTY-SDQ in a couple of weeks.

It's a change AA will like. The most important use of a hub in the Southern states is for flights to S & C America as well as the Carribean. Why would ANYONE who lives anywhere in the South now fly UA to the Carribean? They can all fly AA thru DFW or MIA instead if having to go all the way as North as psbl (close to it) (EWR/IAD/ORD). Most people like to fly w who they get miles from, but most people find schedule & price MORE important. Even if I lived in Houston (unless they kept the nonstops) I would rather fly AA thru MIA instead if all the way N to ORD just to go S again

This is one of the dumbest moves I've ever seen UA make

Well, as someone pointed out, there is the *A option of flying US through CLT. Not as nice as flying direct, but allows us to earn points. I haven't seen the load and $$ figures, so I can't comment as to whether this is a good decision or not, but if the market truly isn't there I can't fault them.

Doesn't mean I like it though - I don't want to go to the islands for a full week, so the flight schedules make it so that choosing other destinations make a lot more sense for me.

Checked a map lately??

...

I just picked a few but feel free to suggest some others where IAH really is closer. I think you'll be hard pressed to do so.

He never said IAH was closer. :rolleyes:

Looking in advance, I do see more direct flights in the spring time. Decided to just fly out to Miami and take a cruise instead.

Where do you get that notion? United had extensive codesharing with US to leverage its presence in the South and in the Northeast after they essentially exited the market in the early 2000s.

On the other hand, CO service to these markets was stronger, so by placing a CO code on more US services, they would essentially be competing with themselves. There is no revenue sharing with a codeshare, it's strictly a marketing relationship. If CO saw tremendous traffic flowing over CLT to the Caribbean, they would likely grow service. On the other hand, the business case for stimulating demand to a low-yield, highly seasonal market is tenuous at best.

The strategy of growth to higher-yield, high-volume VFR and business markets in Central America from IAH has worked out much better for the airline, and presently is the best-performing region for United.

Before the merger, what flights did CO codeshare with US?

My point was this. CO had limited weekday service to the Caribbean. What they had was out of EWR. This was largely timed so that it was impossible for a significant part of the country to fly it without a time consuming and costly ewr overnight. There was a star alliance partner that had very robust service during the week....why not codeshare with it so that it can compliment your weekend service?

I would never fly the iah-aua service on the weekends because travel would be limited to the weekend. What if I wanted to come back on a Wed...and I'm not going to do it via ewr--just not happening. If they codeshared with us I could have flown the co non-stop on the weekend and just come back on Wednesday or whatever on the us codeshare on any day that co didn't fly. There was no codeshare so I typically just flew US and bought from US (or DL or AA)....I didn't fly the non-stop from iah because CO schedule was too limited--and fine, business didn't call for something more. Codesharing can help compliment flights that do make sense to offer non-stop by making them more convenient. This way they at least buy and pay for one leg on CO instead of ZERO. I don't know about anywhere else, but the flights to the Caribbean from IAH are no bargain...far from it.

take Copa with a night in PTY.

It's a change AA will like. The most important use of a hub in the Southern states is for flights to S & C America as well as the Carribean. Why would ANYONE who lives anywhere in the South now fly UA to the Carribean? They can all fly AA thru DFW or MIA instead if having to go all the way as North as psbl (close to it) (EWR/IAD/ORD). Most people like to fly w who they get miles from, but most people find schedule & price MORE important. Even if I lived in Houston (unless they kept the nonstops) I would rather fly AA thru MIA instead if all the way N to ORD just to go S again

This is one of the dumbest moves I've ever seen UA make


But most importantly, how much would the ticket cost if you bought it?

I've never understood why UA couldn't make money on a midnight red eye from IAH-EWR that would allow connections to all the early am flights in EWR. IAH is awake and going with Caracas and Bogota and whatever else I'm not able to think of now and it seems like that would get some traffic. I would think some business travelers from Houston would take that flight even if they were terminating in NYC to be able to make an 8am meeting without having to go up the night before and get a hotel.

take Copa with a night in PTY.

LOL Good one. I'll just take the competition...you get there in the same day.