United MileagePlus (Consolidated) - Denied Economy Plus LHR-IAH as 1K

We flew UA5 LHR-IAH on Saturday; when I picked seats, the seatmap (a PMCO 777-200) showed no economy plus, which is how the majority of the subfleet is configured. However, when we boarded, I saw Economy Plus and was happy. But we were in rows 23/24 and Economy Plus ended at row 22 so I was unhappy. Our party had two 1Ks and two GMs.

I asked the gate agent, who said that we had "picked the wrong seats," that there were no other seats to be had (the flight was full) and that we had no recourse. I asked for the purser to come and speak with me.

A few hours into the (9-hour plus) flight, the purser had not yet come. I found him in the rear galley, so I asked him about the situation. He was even worse, repeating the things the gate agent had said, telling me I could "write a letter" and walking away as I was in mid-sentence. Very frustrating and disappointing.

My question is why nobody offered Economy Plus to us at any point during the check-in process. I was a bit galling, knowing (I assume) that others with less status were sitting in seats that ought to have been ours. I think there are now 6 out of 22 of the PMCO 777s reconfigured with Economy Plus.

I guess I will write to 1KVoice; it was just kind of sad to see how indifferent the ground and cabin staff was about our situation. A customer appreciation card or even an "I'm sorry about that" would have gone a long way.

We flew UA5 LHR-IAH on Saturday; when I picked seats, the seatmap (a PMCO 777-200) showed no economy plus, which is how the majority of the subfleet is configured. However, when we boarded, I saw Economy Plus and was happy. But we were in rows 23/24 and Economy Plus ended at row 22 so I was unhappy. Our party had two 1Ks and two GMs.

I asked the gate agent, who said that we had "picked the wrong seats," that there were no other seats to be had (the flight was full) and that we had no recourse. I asked for the purser to come and speak with me.

A few hours into the (9-hour plus) flight, the purser had not yet come. I found him in the rear galley, so I asked him about the situation. He was even worse, repeating the things the gate agent had said, telling me I could "write a letter" and walking away as I was in mid-sentence. Very frustrating and disappointing.

My question is why nobody offered Economy Plus to us at any point during the check-in process. I was a bit galling, knowing (I assume) that others with less status were sitting in seats that ought to have been ours. I think there are now 6 out of 22 of the PMCO 777s reconfigured with Economy Plus.

I guess I will write to 1KVoice; it was just kind of sad to see how indifferent the ground and cabin staff was about our situation. A customer appreciation card or even an "I'm sorry about that" would have gone a long way.

What did you expect them to do.. remove people from their already assigned seats so you could sit there? Ridiculous. If there had been open E+ seats and you were refused then I would be sympathetic..but in this case the plane was full. What could they do?

What you should have done is checked the seat map for this flight as the flight approached..you would have been able to see the equipment changed to an E+ configured plane and you could have moved yourself into one of those seats if they had been available.

As far as them offering to move you up to E+ during the checkin process.... you already had assigned seats. How would they know that you didn't choose those seats on purpose? The system isn't sophisticated enough to think "gee we just changed this equipment from a non E+ plane to one with E+.. we need to offer any elites sitting in E- an E+ seat just in case they didn't notice". While that would be nice..it just isn't going happen... you need to be the proactive one.

Like lots of other things, it's something you need to seek. There are many reasons why people don't pick E+, and it's not up to UA to seek you out. With all due respect, the fact that the flight was full makes this a "let it go" situation.

I am sorry, but you were not denied E+.

the seatmap (a PMCO 777-200) showed no economy plus, which is how the majority of the subfleet is configured. However, when we boarded, I saw Economy Plus and was happy.

I think there are now 6 out of 22 of the PMCO 777s reconfigured with Economy Plus.

The sCO 777s got E+ installed in the last two months [with the last non-E+ 777 receiving E+ last week], and now all 777s in fleet have E+.

My question is why nobody offered Economy Plus to us at any point during the check-in process. I was a bit galling, knowing (I assume) that others with less status were sitting in seats that ought to have been ours. I think there are now 6 out of 22 of the PMCO 777s reconfigured with Economy Plus.


Did OP ask about E+ during the check-in process? Also, what would've been your proposed solution? Sitting on 2 people's lap?

I didn't see Economy Plus when I picked the seats; I guess I will be more proactive in the future. I don't usually fly with larger parties, so caveat emptor.

"I was a bit galling, knowing (I assume) that others with less status were sitting in seats that ought to have been ours."

You picked the wrong seats. Did the seatmap show no economy + available or no economy + at all? Sure, the staff could have been more friendly but what are they suppose to do -- the flight was full. Either way, you're not owed anything.

I am sorry, but you were not denied E+.


100% correct, and I wouldnt expect an agent to ask me why am I in E- when there are E+ seats available. Or why didnt I do a SDC to a flight leaving 30 mins later that is say a 767 instead of the 737.

somethings are up to us to notice and if we dont its Our fault

I didn't see Economy Plus when I picked the seats; I guess I will be more proactive in the future. I don't usually fly with larger parties, so caveat emptor.

I can't speak to PMCO GAs, but the PMUA people I knew did look out for 1Ks in situations like this. Back in the good 'ol days as they say. :(

As you correctly note, you need to be more proactive about these things. Equipment swaps can take place at any time between booking and the flight, so you need to check. Not sure if this still works, but used to be you could go to ualcargo.com a couple of days before the flight for a pretty solid determination of what metal you'd be on. Things can always happen, though.

Maybe they didn't want to offer E+ to you because they won't get money if they let you know since you are 1K. I believe they would offer this option to GM happily so they can get people to pay for. Remember you were not traveling with UA and it's COdbaUA.

I agree with others that you should have asked instead of waiting for someone to offer. Unfortunately, in this case you lost out because you were not proactive. I disagree that these seats "should have been yours" -- they belong to whomever claims them, either via payment at check in, via status, or otherwise.

This does NOT excuse the rude behavior of the purser, who certainly could have handled things more politely (assuming the exchange went exactly how it was described here).

The OP just wanted to have someone say "Sorry", what does this cost UA?

The sad part about this situation is that UA put's it all on you and makes you feel like you did something wrong. This is exactly the reason why I have decided why it's time for me to move on.

What did you expect them to do.. remove people from their already assigned seats so you could sit there? Ridiculous. If there had been open E+ seats and you were refused then I would be sympathetic..but in this case the plane was full. What could they do?

What you should have done is checked the seat map for this flight as the flight approached..you would have been able to see the equipment changed to an E+ configured plane and you could have moved yourself into one of those seats if they had been available.

As far as them offering to move you up to E+ during the checkin process.... you already had assigned seats. How would they know that you didn't choose those seats on purpose? The system isn't sophisticated enough to think "gee we just changed this equipment from a non E+ plane to one with E+.. we need to offer any elites sitting in E- an E+ seat just in case they didn't notice". While that would be nice..it just isn't going happen... you need to be the proactive one.

The OP just wanted to have someone say "Sorry", what does this cost UA?

Sorry for what?

Sorry for what?

The situation the FF is in. All someone needs sometime is just a touch of compassion. I think this would go a long way at least with me it would.

The situation the FF is in. All someone needs sometime is just a touch of compassion. I think this would go a long way at least with me it would.

I think what you mean is sympathy. Commiserating or giving people comfort in a regrettable situation.

People here react badly to saying that an airline should accept responsibility (apology/say sorry) when something is the customer's fault...

The situation the FF is in. All someone needs sometime is just a touch of compassion. I think this would go a long way at least with me it would.

What situation ? The OP booked the flight expecting regular Y. The fact that Y+ was swapped-in should be viewed as an unexpected bonus, not an entitlement. And the fact he didn't review his seat choices during check-in process was entirely his own fault.

Did he really expect the purser can do something about it? Free upgrade to J as compensation? Involuntarily move pax already in Y+?

Being elite only means you can choose a Y+ seat for free if available. However, it does not mean you're ENTITLED to a Y+ at all cost no matter the situation. You're booked and ticketed in Y, not Y+.

What situation ? The OP booked the flight expecting regular Y. The fact that Y+ was swapped-in should be viewed as an unexpected bonus, not an entitlement. And the fact he didn't review his seat choices during check-in process was entirely his own fault.

Did he really expect the purser can do something about it? Free upgrade to J as compensation? Involuntarily move pax already in Y+?

Being elite only means you can choose a Y+ seat for free if available. However, it does not mean you're ENTITLED to a Y+ at all cost no matter the situation. You're booked and ticketed in Y, not Y+.

+1 ^

I guess an example of the compassion that others are discussing is when I flew DTW-LAX on DL last year as a Diamond Medallion and wasn't upgraded. The lead FA came back to my exit row seat and sincerely apologized for me "having to sit back here". She offered me free drinks and food for the entire flight.

A nice gesture to be sure, but completely unnecessary. It's not as though I would have written a letter to DL to complain about not being upgraded had she not offered this!

In the future, select seats toward the front of the Y cabin. Those are the seats that will be converted into Economy Plus once the sCO aircraft are converted.

Yet another funny thread.

How do you know there were e+ seats available? You expect them to kick somebody else out of their seats because you wanted to move up?

You should have asked for them when you were checking in, or at least checked the seat maps before the flight to see if they had reconfigured the plane.

Once you scanned your non e+ boarding pass and boarded, even though you didn't know the plane had E+, it was pretty much over.

You are choosing to still flying UA post 3/3 & complaining???

E+ seats are first come first serve (for those who are eligible or buy up). Just because you are a 1K doesn't mean you are more deserving of those seats than any other elite. It's just like if you book a flight late and E+ is full with some of those passengers being 1P or Plat -- being a 1K doesn't mean you get to kick them out of their seats so you get E+. I don't see why this should be any different.

I did check the seatmap, maybe a week out; it did not show Economy Plus. I checked at 22 hours out and it was full by then. So I could have checked every day in hopes that the configuration had changed, but didn't. My mistake.

But the seats that turned out to be Economy Plus were available to anyone; it was not as if every one was full of an elite. They just were lucky in their seat choices.

The prevailing attitude "every man for himself" is the new norm here. Sad that I enjoyed being looked after for so many years and now that is largely gone.

I am adjusting my expectations accordingly.

I did check the seatmap, maybe a week out; it did not show Economy Plus. I checked at 22 hours out and it was full by then. So I could have checked every day in hopes that the configuration had changed, but didn't. My mistake.

But the seats that turned out to be Economy Plus were available to anyone; it was not as if every one was full of an elite. They just were lucky in their seat choices.

The prevailing attitude "every man for himself" is the new norm here. Sad that I enjoyed being looked after for so many years and now that is largely gone.

I am adjusting my expectations accordingly.

This is the problem that I have. I understand that last minute hardware changes occur, the problem is we the customers are left holding the bag. There seems to be no process in place to protect the customer in shares. Where as pmUA this was handled manually by someone in the background.

Now UA puts the blame on you. Which is one of the reasons why I have made the decision to try another airline.

I did check the seatmap, maybe a week out; it did not show Economy Plus. I checked at 22 hours out and it was full by then. So I could have checked every day in hopes that the configuration had changed, but didn't. My mistake.

But the seats that turned out to be Economy Plus were available to anyone; it was not as if every one was full of an elite. They just were lucky in their seat choices.

The prevailing attitude "every man for himself" is the new norm here. Sad that I enjoyed being looked after for so many years and now that is largely gone.

I am adjusting my expectations accordingly.
I am having trouble seeing the win-win here.

Let's say some customer centric person had noticed (and had the ability to know) that an 1K had picked seat assignments prior to a change in configuration to add E+. And that super employee re-seated the 1K and those on the same PNR in the E+ and move some sub-1K passengers to E-.
there then could be threads on FT on:
- 1K separate from the rest of their party on separate PNR
- sub-1K passengers complaining about seat change (which may or may not have been post config change) and also separated from their separate PNR travellers.

So the question is how this could have been done and not have an injured party?
The best outcome would have been at check-in with an in-person agent, the agent notices the availability of seats in E+ -- but as the OP related their were no available seats -- not uncommon near flight time for summer travel and high occupancy due to reduced capacity.

So this was a late config change, can anyone describe how they think this could have worked better for all involved? As much as I benefited from my 1K status, I don't see a way for UA to have resolved this to the OPs satisifcation without a lot of breakage.

BTW, having been in PMUA situations such as Ted and non-TED swaps or A320/A319 swaps, things were not that much better PMUA.

I think what you mean is sympathy. Commiserating or giving people comfort in a regrettable situation.

People here react badly to saying that an airline should accept responsibility (apology/say sorry) when something is the customer's fault...

Actaully, empathy may be the correct term here.

We flew UA5 LHR-IAH on Saturday; when I picked seats, the seatmap (a PMCO 777-200) showed no economy plus, which is how the majority of the subfleet is configured. However, when we boarded, I saw Economy Plus and was happy. But we were in rows 23/24 and Economy Plus ended at row 22 so I was unhappy. Our party had two 1Ks and two GMs.

I asked the gate agent, who said that we had "picked the wrong seats," that there were no other seats to be had (the flight was full) and that we had no recourse. I asked for the purser to come and speak with me.

A few hours into the (9-hour plus) flight, the purser had not yet come. I found him in the rear galley, so I asked him about the situation. He was even worse, repeating the things the gate agent had said, telling me I could "write a letter" and walking away as I was in mid-sentence. Very frustrating and disappointing.

My question is why nobody offered Economy Plus to us at any point during the check-in process. I was a bit galling, knowing (I assume) that others with less status were sitting in seats that ought to have been ours. I think there are now 6 out of 22 of the PMCO 777s reconfigured with Economy Plus.

I guess I will write to 1KVoice; it was just kind of sad to see how indifferent the ground and cabin staff was about our situation. A customer appreciation card or even an "I'm sorry about that" would have gone a long way.

Seriously? Personal Problem... all flights have economy plus... even on PMCO 777s prior to reconfig... they are just bulkhead and emergency exits. Its your issue... not the flight attendants.

Actaully, empathy may be the correct term here.

It might be, but I didn't see any.

Well, I guess this was a lose-lose situation. Which is fine after it's all said and done, but when you are sitting in your regular seat and seeing Economy Plus right in front of you for nine hours, it well and truly sucks!

And no, I did not expect a surprise upgrade, to move anybody out of their seat or any other extraordinary outcome, but just a little bit of finesse, class or whatever from the employees I encountered would have been nice. I have experienced those things many times over the years. To say that I never should have come to expect them is just too harsh.

As above, this is a sympathy/empathy issue.

But just to be clear what you're unhappy about -- nothing that you received or didn't receive was the fault of UA, is that right? You just want to be made to feel better about it?

This is clearly a learning for any airline.

[QUOTE=SEA1K4EVR;19112708]What did you expect them to do.. remove people from their already assigned seats so you could sit there? Ridiculous. If there had been open E+ seats and you were refused then I would be sympathetic..but in this case the plane was full. What could they do?

What you should have done is checked the seat map for this flight as the flight approached..you would have been able to see the equipment changed to an E+ configured plane and you could have moved yourself into one of those seats if they had been available.

+1 When do people take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming it on everyone else?

As above, this is a sympathy/empathy issue.

But just to be clear what you're unhappy about -- nothing that you received or didn't receive was the fault of UA, is that right? You just want to be made to feel better about it?

This is clearly a learning for any airline.

The walking aware and being ignored by the Purser is clearly an issue. With regard to the seat, it is the customer's fault. :)

The walking aware and being ignored by the Purser is clearly an issue. With regard to the seat, it is the customer's fault. :)

As always, when we hear only one rather abridged side of the story of a conversation between two people, we don't know how it actually shook out. This conversation might have gone on for some time before the purser eventually walked away.

If the passenger was repeatedly making an irrational demand that nobody can do a darn thing about (the purser is *not* going to kick someone else out of their seat so that you can have it) then eventually the purser has to walk away and continue the rest of his/her duties.

[QUOTE=SEA1K4EVR;19112708]What did you expect them to do.. remove people from their already assigned seats so you could sit there? Ridiculous. If there had been open E+ seats and you were refused then I would be sympathetic..but in this case the plane was full. What could they do?

What you should have done is checked the seat map for this flight as the flight approached..you would have been able to see the equipment changed to an E+ configured plane and you could have moved yourself into one of those seats if they had been available.

+1 When do people take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming it on everyone else?

Or just assign yourself a seat close to the front just to ensure that you'll have an E+ seat if there's an equipment swap.

I mean, I have empathy for the OP here, but it's the empathy for the guy who has a minor stroke of rotten luck, not the empathy for the guy who suffers some kind of malfeasance. You got a paper cut? Awww, that's rotten luck. You missed your bus? Awww, that's rotten luck. You could have had an E+ seat but you checked in too late to get it? Awww, that's rotten luck.

I have had GA's change me to E+ from E- proactively without me having to ask ten or more times on pmUA. The OP can have the reasonable expectation that with equipment swaps that he might be taken care of. Unfortunately I have found with COdbaUA nothing is taken care of behind the scenes or proactively for customers. It's unfortunately the new standard.

I do understand it was possible that the E+ cabin was filled with people and have to confess that I don't know if UA is currently seating what might be E+ on swaps as E+, which would make sense.

In any case I have had staff at several stations extremely apologetic that they couldn't proactively find an E+ seat when I booked flights within a few days I travel.

It isn't a guarantee, but from experience I know that pmUA dealt with this more favorably, for me at least, in the past. I guess that's an over entitled flyer taking though..

When will people realize that the basic problem is flying old CO routes?

I have studiously avoided IAH, EWR, etc, since the merger, and have had few problems. If all legacy UA flyers did the same, we would have far less complaints on this board.

I have flown in precisely one former CO aircraft since 3/3. I was actually impressed by the aircraft, but not by the cabin staff.

When are we going to start to acknowledge that, despite the merger, we still have two former airlines often operating exactly as they did before?

Stick with what you know is my mantra. The day I fly internationally into or out of IAH is the day that I know everything will go wrong. I will not do it. And so, to date, apart from the one occasion mentioned above, I have had excellent UA service every time I have flown. Internationally and domestically, I have flown into and out of ORD (mostly), IAD and occasionally LAX.

Yes, I know it cannot go on like this for ever, but for the next few months it's a heck of a good strategy.

It isn't a guarantee, but from experience I know that pmUA dealt with this more favorably, for me at least, in the past. I guess that's an over entitled flyer taking though..When was the last time when traveling on UA..before the merger...there was a swap between an aircraft without E+ to one with E+? Considering they all have had E+ for more than a decade.. I don't believe this situation ever happened to you other than perhaps a very long time ago.

It's the OP's fault that he didn't check about the E+ seats, at least not at the right time. However, behavior such as that exhibited by the purser (assuming you believe the OP) is condoned way too much over here. I have seen several rude FAs on COdbaUA. This may of course not be true in general, but to me it seems that attitudes of FAs toward passengers have worsened post merger. Not sure if this has any correlation with the fact that I have done many sCO routes recently.