oneworld - Air India could team up with BA and join OneWorld?

Air India and the Indian Government have now officially given up on joining Star Alliance according to several reports in the Indian papers recently. Jet Airways looks to be given the go ahead to join Star any time soon.

Air India is now in discussions with OneWorld and Skyteam about joining of those alliances.

Now that is seems that Kingfisher is not going to last out and probably will not exist in 2013 should Oneworld and BA push Air India to be Oneworld's foothold in India?

Might as well get Air India in instead of them joining Skyteam. Skyteam already has China in the bag so Oneworld should snap up India before Sky get that as well.

Thoughts?

I can't quite see that happening. Not good enough for *A, so let's get it into OW? :confused:

Badly run, state owned airline company with a poor reputation - how's that going to integrate well with the big OW hitters??

There have been worrying reports about their safety standards too, so they're not seeing me on their planes any time soon.

I can't quite see that happening. Not good enough for *A, so let's get it into OW? :confused:

Badly run, state owned airline company with a poor reputation - how's that going to integrate well with the big OW hitters??

There have been worrying reports about their safety standards too, so they're not seeing me on their planes any time soon.

I suppose but I was so disappointed when Kingfisher got their entry suspended and now it looks as if theyll go bust. Jet is going to Star. Looks like OW is going to miss out on yet another opportunity.

That being said Skyteam is full of badly run state owned loss making airlines so I suppose Air India will fit right in there :) .

Apparently as soon as Star suspended their application SkyTeam called them up and made them an offer.

But other reports are indicating nobody will want them and there is a possibility Air India could form a fourth alliance of 'reject' carriers with EL AL.

That being said Skyteam is full of badly run state owned loss making airlines so I suppose Air India will fit right in there :) .

Good point...

Aerolineas Argentinas has joined Skyteam which doesn't inspire much confidence in that alliance.

Good point...

Aerolineas Argentinas has joined Skyteam which doesn't inspire much confidence in that alliance.

I rest my case.

Skyteam are very welcome to have them if they want them as far as I am concerned.

As for the 4th alliance of reject carriers - I hope they'll set aside enough money for the marketing department!

What are you all talking about? Air India is an adventure! The thrill of not knowing whether or not your flight is going to depart today or tomorrow or at all, the DIY food and beverage service when the flight attendants disappear, the excitement of an unexpected landing prior to your ultimate destination when they discover they don't have enough fuel...

What are you all talking about? Air India is an adventure! The thrill of not knowing whether or not your flight is going to depart today or tomorrow or at all, the DIY food and beverage service when the flight attendants disappear, the excitement of an unexpected landing prior to your ultimate destination when they discover they don't have enough fuel...

That sounds more like IT than it does AI.

As for the 4th alliance of reject carriers - I hope they'll set aside enough money for the marketing department!

Having a permanently staffed Twitter site is the way forward and needn't cost a fortune to run.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTU7E4xQHTdNlPpGtcob1zzS3jxINXLY-BibHgTH0qxO7vC_j5OYQXb4wC0

Now that is seems that Kingfisher is not going to last out and probably will not exist in 2013 should Oneworld and BA push Air India to be Oneworld's foothold in India?



Actually IT has a good chance to survive as a relatively small domestic carrier. Today they have better on-time performance that during 'almost Oneworld' days, but cancellations do happen.

Having a permanently staffed Twitter site is the way forward and needn't cost a fortune to run.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTU7E4xQHTdNlPpGtcob1zzS3jxINXLY-BibHgTH0qxO7vC_j5OYQXb4wC0

This did actually make me laugh out loud.

Actually IT has a good chance to survive as a relatively small domestic carrier. Today they have better on-time performance that during 'almost Oneworld' days, but cancellations do happen.

Oh well then there is a small possibility that IT will maybe join OW some time in the distant future then as a small domestic carrier????

They would fit right in with Scaryteam..

Skyteam are very welcome to have them if they want them as far as I am concerned.

As for the 4th alliance of reject carriers - I hope they'll set aside enough money for the marketing department!

what would they name a 4th alliance?

NoWorld?

SkyScream?

Car alliance? (cause you will most likely be getting to your destination by car ;) )

What are you all talking about? Air India is an adventure! The thrill of not knowing whether or not your flight is going to depart today or tomorrow or at all, the DIY food and beverage service when the flight attendants disappear, the excitement of an unexpected landing prior to your ultimate destination when they discover they don't have enough fuel...

you would be surprised. Air India's recent track record is excellent. I flew them a few times last year domestic and also mid haul. The space you get on domestic flights is better then Jet, the First Class product on the 777 beats the old BA F seat any day.

you would be surprised. Air India's recent track record is excellent. I flew them a few times last year domestic and also mid haul. The space you get on domestic flights is better then Jet, the First Class product on the 777 beats the old BA F seat any day.

I, unfortunately, have had to do regular long-haul economy with them. Adventure.

you would be surprised. Air India's recent track record is excellent.

Unless recent means "the last few days", I do beg to differ.

Dear lord, please keep AI out of OW! The whole point of OW was supposed to be quality over quantity, unlike ST or *A. (Of course, the demise of Mexicana and Malev leave something to be desired, and I have yet to figure out exactly why IB and RJ are relevant to the alliance other than letting EU pax avoid the hellhole that is MIA on the way to SA, and perhaps a handful of ME destinations not served by BA). Hoping the pending addition of Malaysia keeps the standards up...

This just won't happen. AI/IA are the epitome of unreformed state-owned behemoth with no customer service.

I would rather Oneworld took Indigo onboard than anyone else in the region, and nurtured its growth.

what would they name a 4th alliance?

Grot Team?

I hope Oneworld don't go after this mess of an airline, with half of their pilots not showing up to work and numerous bailouts and I wouldn't put it past them to be very unsafe.

Oneworld's access to India will be via SriLankan Airlines and a gulf carrier (hopefully QR). It appears like all the Indian legacy carriers are basketcases not worth persuing so, so the next best choice is a carrier with a large Indian network like QR or EY. There aren't enough legacy carriers to give every alliance an airline per country (except USA for example) but they manage to survive. For example Skyteam doesn't have a British airline but you can get to most major and smaller British cities vis AMS with KLM, a similar sentiment can be said for the gulf carriers providing OW with an Indian network.

Travelling AI is like setting a foot back into the 60's. Any other Indian carrier would be better.

you would be surprised. Air India's recent track record is excellent.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/india-based-airlines/1269624-air-india-pax-kept-aircraft-lgw-8-hours-diversion-lhr-bbc.html

Travelling AI is like setting a foot back into the 60's. Any other Indian carrier would be better.

Air travel in the 60s was in many ways far better than AI today...

you would be surprised. Air India's recent track record is excellent. I flew them a few times last year domestic and also mid haul. The space you get on domestic flights is better then Jet, the First Class product on the 777 beats the old BA F seat any day.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/488880-air-india-pilots-hunger-strike-over-training-spat.html

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/485631-air-india-scams-inefficiency-hilarious.html

The height of professionalism.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/india-based-airlines/1269624-air-india-pax-kept-aircraft-lgw-8-hours-diversion-lhr-bbc.html

A fine example of the 'extras' you can experience when flying Air India! 8 hours of quality meditation time!

(I am going to apply for a marketing job at this new grotty airline alliance :D)

PIA has more chance of joining Oneworld than Air India.

I rest my case.

Indeed.

It makes you wonder what the Skyteam entry qualifications are when you allow an airline which is being subsidised to the tune of $200m a month entry into the alliance.

PIA has more chance of joining Oneworld than Air India.

Yes, for sure. But which alliance will be able to enlist JS (Air Koryo) ?

:cool:

Good point...

Aerolineas Argentinas has joined Skyteam which doesn't inspire much confidence in that alliance.

Air France is also a member! Scary stuff

Air travel in the 60s was in many ways far better than AI today...

But if prices in the 90s were so expensive, I can only imagine in the 60s...
(looking at old receipts YVR-HKG)

PIA has more chance of joining Oneworld than Air India.

they have said they want to join star

Yes, for sure. But which alliance will be able to enlist JS (Air Koryo) ?

:cool:

My guess is Skyteam

Unlike Star and OW they NEVER seem picky

Why can't Kingfisher just join oneworld

They may actually become profitable after they join!!

Dear lord, please keep AI out of OW! The whole point of OW was supposed to be quality over quantity, unlike ST or *A. (Of course, the demise of Mexicana and Malev leave something to be desired, and I have yet to figure out exactly why IB and RJ are relevant to the alliance other than letting EU pax avoid the hellhole that is MIA on the way to SA, and perhaps a handful of ME destinations not served by BA). Hoping the pending addition of Malaysia keeps the standards up...

Have you flown with RJ before? I have. And RJ is great! It is definitely above AY and IB in terms of product and service. Certainly better than MX and MA when they were alive. It might not as good as CX or BA. But certainly in line with AA in some way.

Judging by the response in this thread, OW would have a small revolt on its hands if it invited AI.

Welcome to 'Axis of Evil Alliance' taking you to places the other alliances don't (or can't)!

Made up of Air Koryo, IranAir (Which I have flown and was not bad), Cubana,
Conviasa (representing Chavez's Venezuala), Syrian Arab Airlines, and for European coverage Belarus' Belavia.

Bit weak in North America coverage but once reach life time membership on partner FF Programmes you get free Scud Missiles, Ayatollah blow up dolls, video of Fidel Castro's longest speeches, and copies of Hugo Chavez best selling autobiography 'The US Prez and I'.

Motto 'You can check in, but never check out'

Have you flown with RJ before? I have. And RJ is great! It is definitely above AY and IB in terms of product and service. Certainly better than MX and MA when they were alive. It might not as good as CX or BA. But certainly in line with AA in some way.

RJ is good because they must compete with EY, EK, QR which offer close connection points in the area as well. And, both EY and EK also have better coverage as standalone airlines than RJ.

what would they name a 4th alliance?

NoWorld?

SkyScream?

Car alliance? (cause you will most likely be getting to your destination by car ;) )

Qualiflyer?

What I have noticed is that SkyTeam seems to approach the carriers asking them to join. Like what they have done with Air India and Virgin Atlantic.

However with the other 2 alliances it seems the airlines approach them asking to join.

Dear lord, please keep AI out of OW! The whole point of OW was supposed to be quality over quantity, unlike ST or *A.

Are Air Berlin and S7 high quality airlines?

I don't plan to go back to *A any sooner , but this is good news for them and 9W. AI and Government of India were just being bullies and standing in 9Ws way to join 9W. AI does not deserve to be in any alliance.

Indigo would be a good choice for OW, but I guess LCCs (usually) don't join alliances?

Are Air Berlin and S7 high quality airlines?

Air Berlin are pretty decent. And to cal_dood's point, could count as an example of a LCC joining an alliance?

Air France is also a member! Scary stuffDon't forget Alitalia...

Judging by the response in this thread, OW would have a small revolt on its hands if it invited AI.+1

Have you flown with RJ before? I have. And RJ is great! It is definitely above AY and IB in terms of product and service. Certainly better than MX and MA when they were alive. It might not as good as CX or BA. But certainly in line with AA in some way.

I don't doubt their quality at all. What I was wondering is what destinations they really bring to the network that aren't served by the other partners. Mind you, I have no objections to them being a part of the network, since it adds choice and redemption capacity...

Are Air Berlin and S7 high quality airlines?

Don't know. But they appear (a) to be stable and (b) to add substantial network coverage in mainland Europe as well as Russia + most of the *fillintheblank*-stans that aren't currently covered by the existing members. So there's value/relevance there. Same goes for Malaysian (in SE Asia), and although it's been 20+ years since I flew them last, I understand they are a pretty decent outfit.

They certainly appear to be several notches above AI.

Are Air Berlin and S7 high quality airlines?

Don't know. But they appear (a) to be stable and (b) to add substantial network coverage in mainland Europe as well as Russia + most of the *fillintheblank*-stans that aren't currently covered by the existing members. So there's value/relevance there. Same goes for Malaysian (in SE Asia), and although it's been 20+ years since I flew them last, I understand they are a pretty decent outfit.

They certainly appear to be several notches above AI.

Air Berlin is not really stable because they have serious financial problems and had to cut down their network. They are as decent as a LCC and holiday carrier can get. (For 1W users located in Oz: Air Berlin is similar to what Virgin Blue used to be before they decided to abandon the LCC game and became Virgin Australia.)

Don't know. But they appear (a) to be stable and (b) to add substantial network coverage in mainland Europe as well as Russia + most of the *fillintheblank*-stans that aren't currently covered by the existing members. So there's value/relevance there. Same goes for Malaysian (in SE Asia), and although it's been 20+ years since I flew them last, I understand they are a pretty decent outfit.

They certainly appear to be several notches above AI.

Yes but the point I am trying to make is that if Kingfisher goes under (which I bet it will) 1W will miss out on a good Indian network. With Jet off to star, AI being snubbed by star is a god send.
Sure it may be a crappy airline but Star and Sky are full of crappy airlines so why can't 1W have 1 or 2 to bulster its network.
1W is seeming smaller and smaller as the other 2 alliances go on mass recruiting drives and snap all these airlines up. I think OW might lack ambition if it carries on allowing the other 2 to grow and grow and not catch up with them.
China Eastern Airlines is a good example. It narrowed down the choices to SkyTeam or OneWorld and by personal choice of the CEO chose SkyTeam. OneWorld lost itself a foothold in China. It cant allow itself to do the same in India. Sri Lankan is good for India but will not have as large an Indian network as AI will.

Growth at any cost is not constructive at all and certainly just taking on board a bunch of crappy partners is not a recipe for progress, but for decline.

I'd also like OW to focus on delivering its own product in the best possible way without always thinking it should be looking with paranoia to what happens elsewhere.

The idea that a large alliance of rubbish airlines is going to get me to abandon OW just because they might happen to serve a destination not directly served by OW just doesn't add up. I suspect most of us on occasion fly a non OW airline out of necessity. When I do, it mostly just make me appreciate again what I get with BA and the OW alliance. (including TPs and Avios ;))

Growth at any cost is not constructive at all and certainly just taking on board a bunch of crappy partners is not a recipe for progress, but for decline.

I'd also like OW to focus on delivering its own product in the best possible way without always thinking it should be looking with paranoia to what happens elsewhere.

The idea that a large alliance of rubbish airlines is going to get me to abandon OW just because they might happen to serve a destination not directly served by OW just doesn't add up. I suspect most of us on occasion fly a non OW airline out of necessity. When I do, it mostly just make me appreciate again what I get with BA and the OW alliance. (including TPs and Avios ;))

Well, I guess that the fact that 1W has accepted Air Berlin shows that 1W feels that your perspective has its limits.

Yes but the point I am trying to make is that if Kingfisher goes under (which I bet it will) 1W will miss out on a good Indian network. With Jet off to star, AI being snubbed by star is a god send.
Sure it may be a crappy airline but Star and Sky are full of crappy airlines so why can't 1W have 1 or 2 to bulster its network.
1W is seeming smaller and smaller as the other 2 alliances go on mass recruiting drives and snap all these airlines up. I think OW might lack ambition if it carries on allowing the other 2 to grow and grow and not catch up with them.
China Eastern Airlines is a good example. It narrowed down the choices to SkyTeam or OneWorld and by personal choice of the CEO chose SkyTeam. OneWorld lost itself a foothold in China. It cant allow itself to do the same in India. Sri Lankan is good for India but will not have as large an Indian network as AI will.

I'd much rather OW built a network to the top 10 or 15 India destinations by partnering with EY or QR rather than have the ability to go to every 2-bit destination using AI - but then having to deal with (a) AI and (b) the crapshoot involved in airport transits in India (witness the countless threads titled "3 hour connection - do I have enough time to transfer from int'l to domestic @ BOM/MAA etc").

IT would have fixed (a) if they actually were solvent but that went downhill rather fast. Given that OW doesn't seem averse to the odd LCC (e.g. AB), Indigo may not be a bad option to evaluate. Still, that leaves (b). And (b) leaves a lot to be desired :D

I do agree that the loss of China Eastern perhaps was unfortunate - but then again, I personally don't have any business or leisure destinations in mind that CX couldn't address :) YMMV

Edited to add: If China Eastern is in the habit of making strategic decisions of this sort solely on the personal choice of the CEO rather than on a rational data-based approach with BOD backing, then I for one as an OW member am glad they went to ST.

OneWorld still needs to grow IMO.

There are 'good quality' airlines out there who are still single. Air Astana for example is interested in OW, Qatar Airways (YES!), Etihad, Emirates, Gulf Air (also interested in OW), Royal Brunei, Royal Nepal, Belavia etc.

Pakistan International want to join star. My relatives fly MAN-JFK with them cause their cheap but I suspect this will be another AI style saga.

OneWorld still needs to grow IMO.

There are 'good quality' airlines out there who are still single. Air Astana for example is interested in OW, Qatar Airways (YES!), Etihad, Emirates, Gulf Air (also interested in OW), Royal Brunei, Royal Nepal, Belavia etc.

Pakistan International want to join star. My relatives fly MAN-JFK with them cause their cheap but I suspect this will be another AI style saga.

Oneworld might be able to get Qatar or Etihad, but probably not both. Emirates is against joining an alliance. They're happy eating away at everyone else's market share.

Edited to add: If China Eastern is in the habit of making strategic decisions of this sort solely on the personal choice of the CEO rather than on a rational data-based approach with BOD backing, then I for one as an OW member am glad they went to ST.

That's China for you.

Yes but the point I am trying to make is that if Kingfisher goes under (which I bet it will) 1W will miss out on a good Indian network. With Jet off to star, AI being snubbed by star is a god send.
Sure it may be a crappy airline but Star and Sky are full of crappy airlines so why can't 1W have 1 or 2 to bulster its network.
1W is seeming smaller and smaller as the other 2 alliances go on mass recruiting drives and snap all these airlines up. I think OW might lack ambition if it carries on allowing the other 2 to grow and grow and not catch up with them.
China Eastern Airlines is a good example. It narrowed down the choices to SkyTeam or OneWorld and by personal choice of the CEO chose SkyTeam. OneWorld lost itself a foothold in China. It cant allow itself to do the same in India. Sri Lankan is good for India but will not have as large an Indian network as AI will.

Good reasoning. The choice is among airlines, more or less on "as is" basis.

If China Eastern is in the habit of making strategic decisions of this sort solely on the personal choice of the CEO rather than on a rational data-based approach with BOD backing, then I for one as an OW member am glad they went to ST.

Let's remember that is China we are talking of, where shady deals, politically influential individuals and lots a money can often sway otherwise logical decisions. Comrade Chairman Liu, MU current CEO, has been closely associated with French interests since its days at China Southern, and his political connections were evidently strong enough to allow MU switch from OW to ST. Such kind of deals however are always dependent on the political mood of the time and the speed in which individuals can adapt to changing situations , so I would not assume that MU membership in ST is written in stone, or in other words, that CA will remain in * for the foreseeable future.

Growth at any cost is not constructive at all and certainly just taking on board a bunch of crappy partners is not a recipe for progress, but for decline.

I'd also like OW to focus on delivering its own product in the best possible way without always thinking it should be looking with paranoia to what happens elsewhere.

The idea that a large alliance of rubbish airlines is going to get me to abandon OW just because they might happen to serve a destination not directly served by OW just doesn't add up. I suspect most of us on occasion fly a non OW airline out of necessity. When I do, it mostly just make me appreciate again what I get with BA and the OW alliance. (including TPs and Avios ;))

Not only that, having some of their best partners blocking award seats won't help.
( in *, SQ, LX, LH)

What about Biman Bangladesh Airlines? :D

I believe they are alliance-less

what would they name a 4th alliance?

ThirdWorld ?

As seems to be the trend do you think if I set up a new airline 'Crud Bucket Airways' and bought an old second hand spitfire from a scrapheap and flew maybe a couple of flights a week, SkyTeam would come knocking on my door within a few days begging me to join? :)

My vote goes to Drukair National carrier of the Royal Government of Bhutan; operating to seven stations including six cities in five countries with their bustling but very exciting hub at Paro (PBH).^

My vote goes to Drukair National carrier of the Royal Government of Bhutan; operating to seven stations including six cities in five countries with their bustling but very exciting hub at Paro (PBH).^

why not! :D

Seriously, I'd fly with any alliance that offered redemption opportunities to Bhutan!

Seriously, I'd fly with any alliance that offered redemption opportunities to Bhutan!

Wow, a wholly overlooked massive business case there. :D

ThirdWorld ?
Or BothWorlds.
That way, we could all get the 'best of BothWorlds' :D

apparently 9W has second thoughts about joining *:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/jet-airways-may-not-join-star-alliance/993545/0

officially the reason is the perceived threat from SQ, most likely LH in their usual arrogant way has started to make requests to make sure their precious position in subcontinent is not further challenged by another entrant (after EK and TK onslaught intra-alliance) and Goyal does not really want to be the wallah for the germans...
9W would be a great addition for OW, and with IT in tow they can strengthen an already good alliance coverage of SE Asia. Hope this is a good chance for BA/IAG to put forward their best offer and definitely convince them to join.

apparently 9W has second thoughts about joining *:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/jet-airways-may-not-join-star-alliance/993545/0

officially the reason is the perceived threat from SQ, most likely LH in their usual arrogant way has started to make requests to make sure their precious position in subcontinent is not further challenged by another entrant (after EK and TK onslaught intra-alliance) and Goyal does not really want to be the wallah for the germans...
9W would be a great addition for OW, and with IT in tow they can strengthen an already good alliance coverage of SE Asia. Hope this is a good chance for BA/IAG to put forward their best offer and definitely convince them to join.

Interesting stuff. I am aware that SQ and LH are quite difficult airlines to get a long with in Star. Maybe 9W will consider joining OW instead? rather 9W than AI.

Welcome to 'Axis of Evil Alliance' taking you to places the other alliances don't (or can't)!

Made up of Air Koryo, IranAir (Which I have flown and was not bad), Cubana,
Conviasa (representing Chavez's Venezuala), Syrian Arab Airlines, and for European coverage Belarus' Belavia.

Bit weak in North America coverage but once reach life time membership on partner FF Programmes you get free Scud Missiles, Ayatollah blow up dolls, video of Fidel Castro's longest speeches, and copies of Hugo Chavez best selling autobiography 'The US Prez and I'.

Motto 'You can check in, but never check out'

LOL

When natives of a country despise it's national airline one needs to take notice. Please visit the India based airlines forum to see what I mean. I do hope AI dies but if it does not then it should join the what's leftover YQ infested alliance.

LOL

When natives of a country despise it's national airline one needs to take notice. Please visit the India based airlines forum to see what I mean. I do hope AI dies but if it does not then it should join the what's leftover YQ infested alliance.

Or at least the Indian government should spin it off to become a private company.

Or at least the Indian government should spin it off to become a private company.

Whether anyone really wants to invest in an airline is another thing.

Welcome to 'Axis of Evil Alliance' taking you to places the other alliances don't (or can't)!

Made up of Air Koryo, IranAir (Which I have flown and was not bad), Cubana,
Conviasa (representing Chavez's Venezuala), Syrian Arab Airlines, and for European coverage Belarus' Belavia.

Bit weak in North America coverage but once reach life time membership on partner FF Programmes you get free Scud Missiles, Ayatollah blow up dolls, video of Fidel Castro's longest speeches, and copies of Hugo Chavez best selling autobiography 'The US Prez and I'.

Motto 'You can check in, but never check out'

Do not be silly. All those airlines would have joined SkyTeam before any new alliance would have formed :D .

"3 hour connection - do I have enough time to transfer from int'l to domestic @ BOM/MAA etc").



Slightly OT...

The same threads exist on QF/VA/Australia forums:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oceania-australia-new-zealand-south-pacific/1253250-transfer-time-sydney-airport-international-domestic.html

[quote]

3 hours is tight in the morning.

[unquote]

In BOM domestic and international terminal are separated (as in SYD/PER/BNE) and connections are painful. In DEL (as in MEL/ADL) there is a single terminal (new, fantastic, ultra modern T3) for all 'legacy' carriers and connections are as good as in MUC/ZRH and much better that at LHR (including at T5 - quite shameful for BAA & BA).

So do you really have to bash India and Indian airports?

PS> I have never been to MAA so cannot comment...

PS> IndiGo operates from the old domestic terminal in DEL - if they would join OW, connections would then be extremely painful...