United MileagePlus (Consolidated) - Is leaving passengers stranded UA policy?

A friend of mine was recently booked on a Halifax (YHZ) - Newark - Orlando - Newark-Halifax trip with UA. On the return flight airport staff at Orlando stopped working due to lightning in the vicinity after my friend hat boarded the plane. (Her husband was on a UA plane towards Chicago scheduled for departure 10 minutes later, but his plane took off.) She was stuck on the plane for 2 hours.

Then she was given 2 options:

a) Get off the plane but your luggage will fly away. UA won't pay for a hotel or underwear/toothbrush, not even a guarantee of an outbound flight the next day. She might have to wait a few days.

b) Stay on board, fly to Newark. If you miss your connection, you'll have to buy your own food and wait until the next morning, UA won't pay for a hotel and you'll have to buy your own food.

(What they forgot to mention is that all shops/restaurants in Newark would be closed upon arrival in Newark.)

Is that UA's normal behaviour? Are other North American airlines different? In the European Union this would be illegal and result in hefty penalties if reported to authorities.

My friend decided to stay on board. In Newark, most flights were waiting for the connecting passengers. But since her flight to YHZ did not wait. She missed it by a few minutes.

The UA counter staff rebooked her to the next flight some 12 hours later, but refused to provide lodging, food vouchers or even a phone call. Then they shut the counter. Several other passengers who had been waiting in line were not served at all. They would not know until the next morning when they could fly on!

As for me, it cost me quite a bit of gas and 2 hours of sleep to drive to the airport in Halifax and back in vain. My friend did not have a cell phone that would make international calls and no coins for the payphones. All businesses were closed, she could not change money or by food. It took my friend quite a while to find a working WiFi, pay for it and call me through Skype or something - it took her three attempts to convey the message that she wasn't coming. At that time I was already at YHZ to pick her up.

She had to wait on EWR terminal benches for about 12 hours. When she finally arrived in Halifax she was quite dehydrated, very hungry and groggy. Not to speak of her sentiment towards United Airlines.

I'm very surprised UA would shirk from customer service like that. As a result, I'm booking my next flights with Delta for the first time. Can't be worse - but do I have to expect the same there?

In North American, weather delay flights / misconnections do not receive overnight lodging benefits. Some airlines will offer lodging for their top elites.

If the delay is airline caused then overnight lodging will be provided. ...
Is that UA's normal behaviour? Are other North American airlines different? ....
.... As a result, I'm booking my next flights with Delta for the first time. Can't be worse - but do I have to expect the same there?Yes this is normal for UA, it is normal for other NA airlines and it is normal for Delta.

A sugguestion for the future is to use one of the many online tracking services or the airlines flight services to track progress of flights.

Unfortunately, in the US weather delays are not covered by airlines. I will note that airlines do sometimes cover these expenses for their top tier frequent fliers but they don't have to by US law. Sorry your friend had such a bad experience but I don't think it would have been much better with another US legacy carrier.

EU law mandates that airlines pay for accommodations and food during weather delays (I think it's called "right to care") although you are not entitled to additional compensation if the reason for a cancelled flight is weather. Compensation comes into play for cancelled or overbooked flights in the EU but usually not misconnects. And even then most EU airlines try to weasel out of compensations for mechanical issues (sighting "unforeseen circumstances") which is not usually something US airlines will try to do.

I see WineCountryUA beat me to the answer by a minute.

Dehydrated? Were the water fountains not working?

Also...it's a good idea to check status before going to the airport on the airlines website. It's saved me hours.

I dislike UAdbaCO as much as the next person but, in this case, they really were not at fault; you could have helped yourself by checking websites/calling in to find the status and ETA of your friend's flight(s)

I can see merit to both sides of the argument for/against providing lodging in weather delays.

But I tend to side with the "not responsible' argument. If you were taking a trip to your destination by any other means, you would have had to take care of your lodging anyway and bear the responsibility of effects of the weather.

:td:I dislike UAdbaCO as much as the next person but, in this case, they really were not at fault; you could have helped yourself by checking websites/calling in to find the status and ETA of your friend's flight(s)

I did. The flight into YHZ was even early! (Telling me that they really could have waited a few minutes for her.)

I did not know what flight she had on her first leg, I only knew about her scheduled arrival flight.

Also...it's a good idea to check status before going to the airport on the airlines website. It's saved me hours.

If you mean for departure: Everything was fine until boarding was completed. Her husband, though scheduled 10 min later, took off without problems.

If you mean for pickup at arrival: The scheduled arriving flight was actually early. I had checked for that. I though that she would let me know if there was any delay on her first flight - but United did not provide her with means to make that phone call. And she says that all shops were closed, so noone could change her $$ into coins sufficient for an international call from a payphone. It took her a long time to get online and get in touch that way. If UA hat allowed her a phone call, I would have gone to the arport but to bed. :-)

:td:

I did. The flight into YHZ was even early! (Telling me that they really could have waited a few minutes for her.)

I did not know what flight she had on her first leg, I only knew about her scheduled arrival flight.

fair enough

A little bit OT - but which airlines or countries cover WX?

And please - exclude all top elites benefits...

a) Get off the plane but your luggage will fly away. UA won't pay for a hotel or underwear/toothbrush, not even a guarantee of an outbound flight the next day. She might have to wait a few days.

Highly unlikely that checked luggage will 'fly away'. The policy is to remove the checked luggage of passengers not onboard.

And there's also a reason why travel insurance (which covers weather-related delays) was invented.

Highly unlikely that checked luggage will 'fly away'. The policy is to remove the checked luggage of passengers not onboard.

And there's also a reason why travel insurance (which covers weather-related delays) was invented.

Only for international legs. We're not going to delay a flight to find and remove a bag on a domestic leg.

Highly unlikely that checked luggage will 'fly away'. The policy is to remove the checked luggage of passengers not onboard.

And there's also a reason why travel insurance (which covers weather-related delays) was invented.

Bags do not have to travel on the same flight as you when flying domestically. Very common when making connections in hubs for bags to travel on an earlier flight and be waiting for you at destination. It is the law for International flights but even that is not followed 100% of the time as if it was, bags would never be lost

At least your friend made the right decision to get herself as far as EWR (unless she had unlimited time and funds to stay in Orlando). That way, at least she could get home the next morning.

If anything like this every happens to her again you may want to remind her of the possibility of making a collect phone call.

If anything like this every happens to her again you may want to remind her of the possibility of making a collect phone call.

That still exists? I've only seen it in movies and soap operas from the 1980s. :-)

How would they bill me in a foreign country?

A little bit OT - but which airlines or countries cover WX?

And please - exclude all top elites benefits...

All airlines for flights departing in the European Union, plus all Europen Union registered airlines for flights departing from elsewhere but with a destination in the European Union.

They not only have to cater for you (meals, communication, overnight stay) but have to pay compensation of up to 600 Euro (delay >3hours, distance >3.500 km) .

Having said that, the airline can plead "extraordinary circumstances" - then they still have to cater for the passengers needs (but no cash handout).

"Even under extraordinary circumstances, air carriers are obliged to provide assistance when necessary, while you are waiting for re-routing."
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm

Courts have ruled that technical issues are no "extraordinary" circumstance unless they are very very unusual. Just not having a spare part on site and having to get it in is not an "extraordinary" circumstance. The courts basically said that the airline should have expected technical issues and should have been prepared better (spare parts, spare planes, whatever).

Newark has 24 hour shops and restaurants, so there's no reason to go hungry or be dehydrated. As to not having a phone, calling cards are also fairly easily available, I think there's even vending machines for them.

It sounds like a very unprepared traveler.

But to answer the question, no for weather delays you are on your own.

Westjet in Canada offers hotels and assistance during WX events at no cost. Air Canada seems to do so from time to time but not sure it's policy.

sokolov, did your friend have no cash or credit cards? Does she speak or understand English?

I ask because maybe the shops and restaurants were closed in that terminal, but I doubt the vending machines and water fountains were. Had she ventured past her gate and terminal she would have found shops to buy food, a toothbrush and even underwear and a neck pillow to make her airport stay a little more pleasant.

I just find it surprising that an adult can't fend for herself in an airport. They're designed for stranded travelers. But now despite this unpleasant experience, your friend can probably prepare better. For instance, always carry on a toothbrush!

Why did she have to exchange money if she was coming from an American city to another American city?

Why did she have to exchange money if she was coming from an American city to another American city?

I think she meant that her friend did not have change, as in coins themselves:

And she says that all shops were closed, so noone could change her $$ into coins sufficient for an international call from a payphone.

There is no chance, zero, none at all that all the shops at Newark were closed for the 12 hours she was there.

Not even remotely possible.

There's something missing in this story.

<snip>
She had to wait on EWR terminal benches for about 12 hours. When she finally arrived in Halifax she was quite dehydrated, very hungry and groggy.

Although it's unfortunate, why did she not eat or drink for 12 hours? THere are some shops open 24x7 at EWR, and there are vending machines with change-making machines in plain view...she didn't eat or drink because UA wouldn't pay for it? That's like saying your health insurance plan won't pay for over-the-counter aspirin, so you'll just suffer through a headache instead of paying for the aspirin yourself. Defies logic.

Courts have ruled that technical issues are no "extraordinary" circumstance unless they are very very unusual. Just not having a spare part on site and having to get it in is not an "extraordinary" circumstance. The courts basically said that the airline should have expected technical issues and should have been prepared better (spare parts, spare planes, whatever).

Weather related delays are considered extraordinary under EU261. I would not consider that a "very very unusual" circumstance.

Wow, I see a lot of "blame the victim" going on in this thread. :td:

And is anybody else concerned that UA didn't see fit to get everyone rebooked that night? Laws or no laws, it's just a horrible way to treat the flying public. :confused:

Air Canada seems to do so from time to time but not sure it's policy.

I had to pay for my own hotel when AC cancelled a bunch of flights due to snow at YOW earlier this year. I was quite annoyed as it was clear that our flight was cancelled as it was lightly loaded, plenty of other flights made it out at the same time and just after.

Wow, I see a lot of "blame the victim" going on in this thread. :td:

And is anybody else concerned that UA didn't see fit to get everyone rebooked that night? Laws or no laws, it's just a horrible way to treat the flying public. :confused:

According to the OP they did rebook her that night on the next flight out which was 12 hours later. As far as the other passengers in line not even being waited on, I find that unbelievable they would just shut down like that. I've never heard of such a thing.

All airlines for flights departing in the European Union, plus all Europen Union registered airlines for flights departing from elsewhere but with a destination in the European Union.

Fortunately you are wrong. Otherwise, all European airlines will go bankrupt.

EC261/2004 specifically mentions "extraordinary circumstances" includes "meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned" in the Preamble - Section 14.

Wow, I see a lot of "blame the victim" going on in this thread. :td:

To be honest (and not to blame pmCO), the GA's attitude was questionable. There is room for improvement for sure.

But the key is - during WX, passengers are only entitled for rebooking, rerouting and cancellation without penalty.

OP's friend was definitely the victim. But what she should blame the sky, not UA. Bottom line - it is not UA's fault to delay the flights due to WX.

According to the OP they did rebook her that night on the next flight out which was 12 hours later. As far as the other passengers in line not even being waited on, I find that unbelievable they would just shut down like that. I've never heard of such a thing.

CSRs shutting down stations during irrops happens all the time. I've witnessed it with UA alone numerous times at ORD.

Wow, I see a lot of "blame the victim" going on in this thread. :td:

So please explain what you believe United should have done?

They put her on the next plane to where she was going. Should somebody have held her hand, brought her to one of the 24 hour places and bought her food? Maybe one of the employees should have driven her to her destination instead of her having to wait for the next plane?

I'm sorry, not being able to eat or drink or make a phone call for twelve hours is not United's fault at all. If you travel, you have to have money or credit cards or something to get by on your own for delays like this, you can't possibly curl up on a seat in the terminal and cry dehydration for twelve hours because nobody gave you $2 for a bottle of water from any of the shops.

CSRs shutting down stations during irrops happens all the time. I've witnessed it with UA alone numerous times at ORD.

But they don't shut them all down so passengers have absolutely no where to go for help.

Wow, I see a lot of "blame the victim" going on in this thread. :td:


This forum is littered with threads attacking customers...

But, in this case, the OP goes on and on and on about how the stranded passenger had no water or change or food. But, EWR does have water fountains and 24x7 restaurants and change machines.

So, I agree that there is something missing in this story (or the story is just plain wrong).

One of the things that could have been done, given an early enough airport arrival at MCO, would have been to route around the wx.

UA could have re-routed her via ORD rather than via EWR.

Fortunately you are wrong. Otherwise, all European airlines will go bankrupt.

EC261/2004 specifically mentions "extraordinary circumstances" includes "meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned" in the Preamble - Section 14.
Actually, Gary, you are the one who is wrong here. The exclusions are for compensation, not to right for care. Overbooking or cancelled flights = Euros + hotel, food. Weather = hotel & food only.

To quote from the EU regs:
Article 5 (Cancellation)
1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:
(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; and
(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7,
...
section 3: An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
The same language is for article 6 (delay).
Article 9 is "right to care" and talks about hotel, meals, etc. It's pretty clear that right to care is always applicable in case of overbooking (article 4), cancellation (article 5) and delays (article 6).

She had to wait on EWR terminal benches for about 12 hours. When she finally arrived in Halifax she was quite dehydrated, very hungry and groggy. Not to speak of her sentiment towards United Airlines.

While a weather overnight is always crappy, I guess this is where it gets me. I'll assume your friend was not on a work trip and that a ticket from Halifax to MCO has to be a few hundred dollars. Your friend was able to pay for a ticket but not 75 bucks for a hotel to sleep at. Instead she choose to sleep at the airport and not buy any food or water? Come on.

Wow, I see a lot of "blame the victim" going on in this thread. :td:

And is anybody else concerned that UA didn't see fit to get everyone rebooked that night? Laws or no laws, it's just a horrible way to treat the flying public. :confused:

When half the story doesn't make sense (no food available at EWR for 12 hours), you have to question how correct the rest of the story is...

Who is responsible for our hotels when we get stuck in weather while driving? It is an act of nature and if the airlines have to pay for every weather incident it would make the cost of flying prohibitive for all of us.

Actually, Gary, you are the one who is wrong here. The exclusions are for compensation, not to right for care. Overbooking or cancelled flights = Euros + hotel, food. Weather = hotel & food only.

To quote from the EU regs:
Article 5 (Cancellation)
1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:
(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; and
(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7,
...
section 3: An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
The same language is for article 6 (delay).
Article 9 is "right to care" and talks about hotel, meals, etc. It's pretty clear that right to care is always applicable in case of overbooking (article 4), cancellation (article 5) and delays (article 6).


Personally, I think the entire point of what EU airlines cover is moot. If a European who possibly expects an airline to cover losses due to weather is stranded at an airport, he or she does not usually sit passively waiting for someone to walk her through basic survival skills.

What gets me is the OP's claim that United did not allow her friend a phone call. An airport is not a prison. I doubt phones at customer service desks even had capabilities of calling out of country private numbers. (This is United technology we're dealing with here.) How did this woman even make calls in Orlando?

This story is strange. Seems to me that someone traveled completely unprepared for any contingency and needed a third party to provide her with food, water, shelter, clothing and communication. These are things a grown woman can provide for herself and doesn't need permission for. Or... these are things a grown woman refuses to provide for herself as a form of protest.

Yes, it's policy for all the US airlines to rebook passengers on the next available flight when weather causes delays. They do not provide accommodations, except for some high-level elites.

As for me, it cost me quite a bit of gas and 2 hours of sleep to drive to the airport in Halifax and back in vain. My friend did not have a cell phone that would make international calls and no coins for the payphones. All businesses were closed, she could not change money or by food. It took my friend quite a while to find a working WiFi, pay for it and call me through Skype or something - it took her three attempts to convey the message that she wasn't coming. At that time I was already at YHZ to pick her up.

She had to wait on EWR terminal benches for about 12 hours. When she finally arrived in Halifax she was quite dehydrated, very hungry and groggy. Not to speak of her sentiment towards United Airlines.

I think a lot of the frequent fliers here forget some infrequent fliers are severely unprepared for travel. The issues you mentioned (water, food, clothing, lodging) are always the responsibility of the traveler throughout their journey. For many, including myself, traveling without cash, plastic, clothes, and communication is unthinkable; it's like walking out the front door naked.

I'm very surprised UA would shirk from customer service like that. As a result, I'm booking my next flights with Delta for the first time. Can't be worse - but do I have to expect the same there?

Delta would have the same outcome in the same situation. Airlines are not responsible for the weather; passengers are responsible for themselves.

I think a lot of the frequent fliers here forget some infrequent fliers are severely unprepared for travel. The issues you mentioned (water, food, clothing, lodging) are always the responsibility of the traveler throughout their journey.

I'm 31 years old. My "first time" on an airplane was in 2006. (I'd been on an airplane once as a 6-year-old.) My entire thought process before flying was, What if the weather is bad and the plane is grounded? I don't think airlines will do anything for me if it's because of weather, oh my god, what if I'm stuck in an airport? Can I get to a hotel with just a credit card?! I'd need a cab! Do airports even ACCEPT credit cards?! Jesus, what if the airlines lose my luggage just like on TV? Better pack extra stuff to carry on just in case... I need a lot of cash! I don't know if stores and stalls in airports accept credit cards!

I understand that people who don't travel often aren't as savvy as frequent flyers. And that includes myself! I only fly once a year. But there's a difference between experience and instinct.

Also, had the OP's friend even attempted to use a payphone to check how much change she'd need to call abroad, she'd have seen instructions right there on the phone on how to call collect. That's assuming, of course, the phones had worked. I tried to use payphones at BTR a week ago and no dice on a dial tone. (Unprepared traveler here! I got on a plane without a charged phone!)

Why did she have to exchange money if she was coming from an American city to another American city?

Did you miss the part where Halifax is in Canada? ;)

Seriously though, I'll take her word for it that she happened not to have any US currency. Still, doesn't everyone have an ATM card that'll allow them to withdraw money from any ATM worldwide by now?

Weather events suck, but a grown adult needs to be capable of feeding herself. And finding water.

Did you miss the part where Halifax is in Canada? ;)

It incident was on a return trip, Orlando to Newark then to Halifax:

A friend of mine was recently booked on a Halifax (YHZ) - Newark - Orlando - Newark-Halifax trip with UA. On the return flight ...

This is a third-party recollection of what somebody else told OP happened. Let's look at this realistically:

1. Lightening on the field means that all ramp workers are ordered off the ramp. The aircraft is well grounded and, while sitting for 2 hours is unpleasant, it's not unsafe. Not sure a UA employee needs to put their life on the line because OP's friend was on the plane.

2. OP's friend got out on the next flight. If there had not been availability, it would have been the flight after and so on. Not sure what OP wants UA to do. If there's no seat, there's no seat. Kick somebody else off.

3. It's simply untrue that there's no food/water at EWR. Maybe OP's friend needed help, but there are always employees & police. If the friend really has no money (including no credit/debit cards), I would be very surprised if someone didn't find her a cup of water.

4. No US carrier provides acommodations for WX-related delays (other than to top tier elites). EU rules don't apply in the USA and with good reason, we don't have nanny silliness. When things go wrong, we're each responsible for our own affairs. Who does anyone think is paying for those "duty of care" acommodations besides every traveler in their ticket. The difference is that in the USA it's part of travel interruption insurance.

Again, something is missing here. Enough sophistication to board a connecting intl. flight, but not to have cash, credit, debit, cell phone, calling card or ability to ask for help?

About the phone call thing: Several years ago, when I was travelling in Europe without a cellphone, I was stuck on a train that was greatly delayed. After the pax next to me used her cell, I politely asked if I could make a very short call to the person who was going to meet me at my destination and she graciously let me do so.

I realize that many people won't let other people use their cells, but I kind of think that a person stranded by a weather delay could find some kind soul who would, if only they thought to ask. Or maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

This story has to be way full of holes. Nobody is that naive.

According to the OP they did rebook her that night on the next flight out which was 12 hours later. As far as the other passengers in line not even being waited on, I find that unbelievable they would just shut down like that. I've never heard of such a thing.

Also don't other airlines have "scan at a kiosk" if your flight is delayed to get new flights? The other pax could have also called on the phone for reservations, but NO WAY do I believe that the GA's are going to walk away with 100 people in line that need to be rebooked.

This whole story seems very unlikely. She could have gotten food with a charge card at the restaurants, the vending machines take dollars, you do not need change.

Did you miss the part where Halifax is in Canada? ;)

Seriously though, I'll take her word for it that she happened not to have any US currency. Still, doesn't everyone have an ATM card that'll allow them to withdraw money from any ATM worldwide by now?

Weather events suck, but a grown adult needs to be capable of feeding herself. And finding water.

No, not everyone has an ATM card. As part of work, I have very often played host to any number of people from parts of the world where banking is not common, except perhaps for the uber-rich. I've seen this with people from every continent (except North America and Antartica). And we certainly know that there are plenty of people in the US who don't have bank accounts either. Yes, these people don't typically fly. But, occasionally, I am sure that one does. A working poor person flies to visit ill relatives or to attend a funeral and people in the community scrap together $$ to make it possible.

My experience, however, with such people is that they are ready for anything -- including sleeping on the floor. Such poor would never beg, but they would not be foolish enough not to ask for assistance -- e.g. where can I get water? Are those crackers you have for the soup free?

So my points are two: one, that we should not assume that everyone comes from our own economic situation and, second, that the traveller should have been able to make something work, at least in a minimal way.

I actually have sympathy for the OP's friend here. It sounds like a miserable experience overall, and a shocking way to learn about how airlines handle weather delays in the 21st century. If I were in the position the OP's friend was in, with the knowledge she had, I'd be furious, too.

It seems to me that some infrequent travellers see the airlines as a magical, luxurious, and wondrous business. The airlines rake in a ton of money, they pamper their passengers when something goes wrong, the flight attendants are all attractive women, and if you need a shoulder to cry on, they're there for that, too.

So, it's a shock to the novice traveller when all of these dreams turn out not to be true.

Everyone on FT knows that flying is a filthy, dirty, cut-rate business. Flying is no better than taking the bus these days. We all know the consequences of this, and therefore how to protect ourselves if something goes awry. But that's not true of all travellers.

With all due respect to the OP, it sounds like your friend was travelling on a budget. As many posters noted above, there were plenty of opportunities for her to let you know how the journey was going: by paying for a cell phone roaming plan, or buying a calling card. There was plenty of food and lodging available at EWR, or by taking transportation just outside of EWR. I understand that travelling back to Halifax means using up all of your US cash before returning to Canada.

But, it would seem like your friend was not willing to pay out of pocket for any of these things, short of the Internet connection to call you. She wasn't willing to pay for any of the above options. Hey, that's okay, travelling on a budget is something we've all done at one time or another.

However, I don't think it's necessary to blame the airline. The front-line staff receive a lot of blame from hostile passengers on the airline's behalf, which just aggrivates the problem for everyone. It's no wonder the customer service staff slam the counter shut when their shift is done regardless of number of people waiting - I'd want to run as far away from that place, too.

My opinion is that the sooner that travellers like the OP's friend realizes that air travel is not all unicorns and rainbows, the better off we'll all be in the long run.

All it will take is a little sympathy and education, I think.

The front-line staff receive a lot of blame from hostile passengers on the airline's behalf, which just aggrivates the problem for everyone. It's no wonder the customer service staff slam the counter shut when their shift is done regardless of number of people waiting - I'd want to run as far away from that place, too.


I used to think such a job would be appealing; perhaps as a thing to do in retirement. I love the challenge of finding routings, space, and fares that others cannot. Not any more. Its got to be one of the most thankless and stressful jobs out there.

i guess buying a $15 bus ticket with a credit card and taking a 30min ride to NYC/Times Square was also too much to bear...
seriously - spend 12h in airport 30min from the 24h city...

What happened to the OP? :D

And there's also a reason why travel insurance (which covers weather-related delays) was invented.

Most travel insurance requires you to front the expenses, at least the short-term, immediate expenses. I doubt it would have helped at all if the pax in question wasn't even able to figure out how to place a phone call.

I fly self-insured against weather and other nuisance delays, and carry an array of $1, $5 and $10 bills totaling about $40 for emergencies as the absolute minimum. A few $20 traveler's cheques stuck in my wallet as well can be cashed almost anywhere, including the front desk at nearly any hotel.

Agree that something just doesn't add up, which is not surprising being secondhand from someone who wasn't actually there.

You mentioned your friend not having a cell phone capable of international calls... since U.S. and Canada phones usually work in both places, and since you mentioned EU regs, I'm guessing the friend is from outside N.A.? If English isn't her first language I can see the situation being more stressful.

Still, I don't understand a grown woman unable to find food and water at a major world airport, regardless of language. She is able to Skype but can't figure out how to buy a sandwich, a calling card, get change, or find something to drink? (Also, a collect call can certainly be made from the U.S. to Canada, as easily as within the U.S. - just dial "0" to get started)

Could have asked the airport police or another employee for directions if for some reason a drinking fountain or food place was hard to find. Perhaps they were closed when your friend arrived but there is a Traveler's Aid at EWR: http://www.travelersaid.org/transportationcenters.html#Newark

Side note, I have seen (with AA at least) agents just shut down and walk away with customers waiting for rebooking, etc. Always good to carry your operating airline's phone number along, sometimes you can dispense with the whole waiting in line altogether.

I used to think such a job would be appealing; perhaps as a thing to do in retirement. I love the challenge of finding routings, space, and fares that others cannot. Not any more. Its got to be one of the most thankless and stressful jobs out there.

It really is a thankless and stressful job and it gets worse as the skies become more crowded.

i guess buying a $15 bus ticket with a credit card and taking a 30min ride to NYC/Times Square was also too much to bear...
seriously - spend 12h in airport 30min from the 24h city...

I think that would be very overwhelming for an inexperienced traveler to do.

The front-line staff receive a lot of blame from hostile passengers on the airline's behalf, which just aggrivates the problem for everyone. It's no wonder the customer service staff slam the counter shut when their shift is done regardless of number of people waiting - I'd want to run as far away from that place, too.

I was in EWR a few weeks ago, at a time that most flights across the board were delayed due to weather (including at least one full ground-stop).

While there I watched two passengers from an "earlier" EWR-SFO flight that had been delayed ~2 hours trying to talk the GA for the later EWR-SFO into letting them onto that flight, which was due to leave before theirs due to the delay.

The later flight was 100% full (in fact, the reason I was in line was to try and volunteer!), and the GA calmly explained to the passengers multiple times that she couldn't let them on that flight - not because she didn't want to, but because there were simply no free seats. The passengers gradually became more forceful, whilst the GA maintained her (relative) calm, explaining the situation clearly, and that there simply was nothing she could do.

The passengers then started claiming that they were hungry, and had no money, and that by delaying their departure United was responsible for making them go without food. The GA explained to them that there was no free food on the plane anyway, so it didn't make much difference if they were on the flight or not - which the two passengers either simply didn't understand, or just chose to ignore and continued to claim that UA was forcing them to not eat!

At least one of the passengers was an American (I saw her USA passport) and I presume the other was as well, so there were no language issues, and most likely no foreign current issues either.

When several minutes later they finally left in disgust there was nothing I could do but to go up to the GA and congratulate her on how well she had handled the situation.

If I was sitting on a customer service desk, handling person after person of passengers acting like that, I can only imagine that I wouldn't want to be hanging around either! Obviously not everyone passenger is like that, but I'm sure enough are to have a real impact.

No, not everyone has an ATM card. As part of work, I have very often played host to any number of people from parts of the world where banking is not common, except perhaps for the uber-rich. I've seen this with people from every continent (except North America and Antartica). And we certainly know that there are plenty of people in the US who don't have bank accounts either. Yes, these people don't typically fly. But, occasionally, I am sure that one does. A working poor person flies to visit ill relatives or to attend a funeral and people in the community scrap together $$ to make it possible.

My experience, however, with such people is that they are ready for anything -- including sleeping on the floor. Such poor would never beg, but they would not be foolish enough not to ask for assistance -- e.g. where can I get water? Are those crackers you have for the soup free?

So my points are two: one, that we should not assume that everyone comes from our own economic situation and, second, that the traveller should have either been able to make something work, at least in a minimal way.

I haven't seen such compassion for the less fortunate on these boards for a while. While we discuss the ignominy of sitting in Y instead of BF, we forget that there are really poor and decent people that may be flying for the first time.

So the woman had Skype (per the OP) how did she afford to get onto wi-fi to use Skype? Finally, sometimes as adults we need to get creative. She could have asked somebody for a short loan and her husband or friend could have sent the $ via Paypal. I'm just saying that the whole thing about thinking that United should have "taken care" of her isn't realistic.

WX or MX United can leave you stranded.

As for the OP, even in a Non English country I've found water/food through signs, heck, did 3 months in Japan and I lived (loved it) without speaking any Japanese.

Try asking for water in Sao Paulo!

I haven't seen such compassion for the less fortunate on these boards for a while. While we discuss the ignominy of sitting in Y instead of BF, we forget that there are really poor and decent people that may be flying for the first time.

No way, a waiver from normal human compassion is an elite benefit.

It's printed on the back of the card "bearer need no longer feel morally obliged to feel sorry for those less fortunate than him/herself". ;)

Let's not lose track that she'd been in Orlando with her husband, and maybe he paid all costs while they were together. That's a possible explanation for her not having cash or cards (if that was the case), although it's not the way she should have traveled.

Actually, Gary, you are the one who is wrong here. The exclusions are for compensation, not to right for care. Overbooking or cancelled flights = Euros + hotel, food. Weather = hotel & food only.

To quote from the EU regs:
Article 5 (Cancellation)
1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:
(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; and
(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7,
...
section 3: An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
The same language is for article 6 (delay).
Article 9 is "right to care" and talks about hotel, meals, etc. It's pretty clear that right to care is always applicable in case of overbooking (article 4), cancellation (article 5) and delays (article 6).

If you think you are correct, can you kindly explain these:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2097128/UK-weather-update-Heathrow-Airport-warns-passengers-cancellations.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/20/snow-weather-heathrow-eurostar-delays

(Why did all those people sleep on the floor?)

Also - the Preamble of this Regulation specifies that:

(14) As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on operating air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases where an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances may, in particular, occur in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier.

I don't really see the chance why any airlines that subject to EC261/2004 and ECJ will agree with you at all.

All airlines for flights departing in the European Union, plus all Europen Union registered airlines for flights departing from elsewhere but with a destination in the European Union.

They not only have to cater for you (meals, communication, overnight stay) but have to pay compensation of up to 600 Euro (delay >3hours, distance >3.500 km) ....

You can fly MCO-BA-x/LON-AC-YHZ and be covered by EU reg for entire itinerary.:p This reminds me of an FTer who flew SYD-UA-x/LAX-UA-x/SFO-UA-HKG just to go from SYD to HKG.;)

Why did she have to exchange money if she was coming from an American city to another American city?

To have ample coins for an international payphone-call.

Newark has 24 hour shops and restaurants, so there's no reason to go hungry or be dehydrated. As to not having a phone, calling cards are also fairly easily available, I think there's even vending machines for them.

She said that all the shops and restaurant where closing at 10 pm, just when she was done with the UA rebooking and that counter closed as well.

I was surprised to hear that. But then again I remember myself waiting in MIA for a flight to MAD (Madrid) and the few shops and restaurants established at that terminal closing down. I was very hungry and would have loved to throw money at that Burger King or whatever it was. I couldn't believe it: There was a huge crowd of bored and possibly hungry people waiting for a scheduled flight (no delay) and no-one to sell them anything...

According to the OP they did rebook her that night on the next flight out which was 12 hours later.

Well, it was the next DIRECT flight. I checked the flight plans and I believe there would have been other connections that would have brought her home a little earlier.

As far as the other passengers in line not even being waited on, I find that unbelievable they would just shut down like that. I've never heard of such a thing.

Now you have. :-)

About the phone call thing: Several years ago, when I was travelling in Europe without a cellphone, I was stuck on a train that was greatly delayed. After the pax next to me used her cell, I politely asked if I could make a very short call to the person who was going to meet me at my destination and she graciously let me do so.

I realize that many people won't let other people use their cells, but I kind of think that a person stranded by a weather delay could find some kind soul who would, if only they thought to ask. Or maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

I would not expect the averge US cell phone carrier to allow a stranger to make an international call on their bill.

Anyway, she went online to get in touch (Skype, I guess). From her point of view, expecting a pay-for WiFi to actually work well, that was probably going to be faster than asking strangers to rack up their phone bill.

She said it took a while to get it working. I was on the other line and I know she called me three times before I got the idea that she was not coming. The connection was bad and dropped after a few moments every time. She said she tried further but couldn't get a connection again. I just know that ther weren't any further calls coming in.

Also don't other airlines have "scan at a kiosk" if your flight is delayed to get new flights? The other pax could have also called on the phone for reservations, but NO WAY do I believe that the GA's are going to walk away with 100 people in line that need to be rebooked.

I never said that there were 100 people. I'm not sure where you gather that from.

On the contrary, I said that most passenger had no trouble with their connections since their relevant connection flights waited for them.

This whole story seems very unlikely. She could have gotten food with a charge card at the restaurants, the vending machines take dollars, you do not need change.

What exactly is a charge card in this context? My Amex says that it is a Charge Card. But she doesn't have one.

What exactly is a charge card in this context? My Amex says that it is a Charge Card. But she doesn't have one.


I think he or she means any type of card- credit card, debit card, ATM...

If your friend got online by paying for it she likely opened a Boingo account. Boingo is a subscription internet service available in public areas. Your friend would have needed to pay for it with either a paypal account or credit/debit card. If the signal was too weak for a Skype call all she needed to do was move closer to the source signal. Last time I was in EWR, there were signs to show customers the source points.

If your friend got on a plane from Orlando with no American currency or a single credit or debit card, there's no way an airline can be blamed for that. None whatsoever. If your friend's husband traveled on without his wife leaving her with no money at all, just assuming that everything would go according to plan, she is to blame for agreeing with such a thing. If he left her with no money without her agreement, that's a matter for police.

My cell phone's plan does not allow international calls. (I have an extra phone for when I travel.) I couldn't let your friend use my phone, but you better believe I would have helped her by showing her how calling cards worked. If this woman was so confused and unprepared she could not find water or food, I probably would alert airport security or the police.

Airlines and airports are not babysitting services. If your friend needs this much guidance she should not to be traveling alone. But if a woman has enough where with all to open a Boingo account, she doesn't need a nanny. I'm willing to bet either her husband left Orlando with all their money (accidentally, by mutual plan or on purpose) or she truly was so broke that she couldn't afford a sandwich. (I've been there. Believe me.) And now she's too embarrassed to properly explain her situation.

I find this thread weird. On the one hand there are friendly folks who have answered my question about what is standard policy at UA. And some have asked me where it is different and I explained the law in the European Union (airlines have to cater with hotel, food and communication, and in non-weather/non-terror/non-strike related cases also with substantial payouts). Someone else added info on Canadian policies. Thank you for these contributions, they were educative and I have decided to book with UA on occasion again since other US-based airlines aren't better in that regard.

Then there are some FTers questioning why she couldn't find food. I dunno and it is besides my point. These posters are probably more adventurous in running around a strange airport at night and would most likely have found a nice steak with a Cabernet Sauvignon to go with it. Fine for them. Personally, I would have probably gone downtown for the night. But as the title suggests I was trying to establish UA policies. Besides, there are a lot of people flying around who are much less experienced and of lesser education and intellect than my friend. There might even be substantial language barriers (Hungarian, anyone?) or a fear of violating religious rules when buying from a machine that won't answer questions.

The alleged stupidity/unprepardness/whatever of my friend just explains why EU lawmakers think airlines should take care. Yes, it might increase the average airfare by $2 or 3 (see the relevant Ryanair surcharge in Europe) and I'm sorry to hear that some would find this prohibitive.

Then there are wise cracks going on about water fountains. In most countries you are told from an early age NOT to drink from these fountains. Personally, I've learned it the hard way to choose very carefully in which international airports I should (not) uses these fountains. I can perfectly understand why someone would generally stay away from them. And she did.

It is true that I spared you some details. I had actually equipped her with a US cell phone for the trip. It is prepaid and does not make international calls. It is, however, registered with a Calling Card company and a 1-800-Call Through number to make international calls which get billed to my European credit card. I have used this service numerous times before. As it so happens, this US Call Through number is out of service. I was in California and Washington state recently and it wouldn't work, so I told the company who said they would let me know when it is back in service. No word yet, so I did not instruct my friend on how to use that broken service. (The company has lost their technical brain recently so it seems to go down the drain.) Once I had understood that she wasn't coming I tried to call her on said cellphone but she didn't pick up fast enough - its not her usual phone anyway. I didn't try calling again but hit the highway to go home. Being from Europe and living in Canada (hello, Westjet) I was of the opinion that the airline would take care of her. I only learned further details when she got in 12 hours later. Now blame me for not calling more often and giving her instructions on how to find food in a place I 've only been at once, running from one gate to the other so to not miss my connection. They could have had Santa Claus and naked elves their, I would not have noticed.

On the way back I picked up a hitchhiker that had been stranded at the Halifax airport due to a flight delay. No more buses/shuttles at that time and he could not afford the cabride which is over $50 plus tax plus tip. In the EU, the airline would probably have paid for his taxi bill.

Rant out.

There might even be substantial language barriers (Hungarian, anyone?)

Based on the original story my first thought was that your friend was having trouble with language. I know I'm being argumentative, but when I'm in Cambodia I still need to eat and drink. If I can't speak to anyone I'll mime food and water or whatever. I'm not going to get dehydrated just because in my country airlines run differently.


or a fear of violating religious rules when buying from a machine that won't answer questions.

Are you saying that what stopped your friend from buying food from a vending machine is that she did not want to violate her own religious rules? Like, she was unsure if the food contained pork and the vending machine couldn't tell her if the food contained pork?

Seriously, better preparation.

The alleged stupidity/unprepardness/whatever of my friend just explains why EU lawmakers think airlines should take care. Yes, it might increase the average airfare by $2 or 3 (see the relevant Ryanair surcharge in Europe) and I'm sorry to hear that some would find this prohibitive.

As others have mentioned, your friend is entitled to purchase very affordable insurance that would cover these circumstances. No need for all of us to pay $2 or $3 extra when some of us can afford to take the risk or wouldn't be bothered by sleeping in the airport.

I find this thread weird.

Welcome to Flyertalk. Some people will be fine. Some people will read a 7,000 word post and beat you up over and over and over about five words that really have no impact on the overarching point of the post.

Didn't The Killers write a song about "This is the world that we live in...."? Welcome to the Flyertalk world.

No one can know the future, and one should always be prepared for unexpected delays/disasters.

Wx delays are aggravating, but the airlines have absolutely no control over when a hold or ground stop occurs, so your ire should be directed at the FAA not UA.

I always carry significant currency for any country that I might transit through, and a cell phone that is only for emergencies--I use a VOIP phone for all of my normal international calls.

Remember the 6Ps: Proper prior planning prevents poor performance.

Is that UA's normal behaviour? Are other North American airlines different? In the European Union this would be illegal and result in hefty penalties if reported to authorities.

I'm very surprised UA would shirk from customer service like that. As a result, I'm booking my next flights with Delta for the first time. Can't be worse - but do I have to expect the same there?

I dont think NA airlines are different,I wouldnt expect anything from any European carrier if the fault was due to ATC or Weather either.

DL would be the same as would AA or any US carrier , imo. No one will pay for food,drink or hotel when the delay is due to ATC or Weather

I just dont understand why she was traveling w/o any money or CC or debit card. Even if all the food places were closed the 1st thing Id ask is there a Hoetl withing the airport grounds and head over there to see what if anything they have that I can eat being Im on a special diet. Dont understand why husband and wife werent flying together either.

Ive landed at airports where we were very late in getting in and there was no ground transport except for Taxis that wanted my right arm and leg. I didnt feel the Carrier had to pay for it and I just waited a few hrs longer till everything started to operate. Tried sharing a cab but didnt find any takers.

Sorry OP that your friend went thru all of this but 100% it wasnt UAs obligation to do anything or offer hotel etc etc. As Im sure its been pointed out that why theres something called Travel ins that is sold

I agree with the current state of compensation for weather delays in the US. What gets me is the unfettered use of weather as an excuse in many circumstances in which I feel weather should not be the reason. For example, last week my inbound aircraft was marginally late arriving in SFO (less than an hour) due to weather. No prob there, but they then claimed a crew issue due to weather. The crew would not be available for what would be almost 14 hours! The flight was supposed to leave before 11:30am and didn't leave until 3:50am the next day. Because of the weather excuse, no compensation or voucher was offered at all. :mad:

If you think you are correct, can you kindly explain these:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2097128/UK-weather-update-Heathrow-Airport-warns-passengers-cancellations.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/20/snow-weather-heathrow-eurostar-delays

(Why did all those people sleep on the floor?)


I'm not familiar with that incident. But I would think that the system was completely overloaded. Some of those passengers couldn't even get to the people who were supposed to book them a hotel room - and I suspect that there were no hotel rooms left.

Furthermore, airlines often do not adhere to the rules. They know that most passengers lack the means to take them to court.

I don't really see the chance why any airlines that subject to EC261/2004 and ECJ will agree with you at all.

They have been fined heavily time and again. Especially Ryanair. Some have changed their behaviour. Ryanair probably hasn't.

I'm willing to bet either her husband left Orlando with all their money (accidentally, by mutual plan or on purpose) or she truly was so broke that she couldn't afford a sandwich. (I've been there. Believe me.) And now she's too embarrassed to properly explain her situation.

I don't know. She said everything was closing down. But it is not my point wether she is rich or poor, stupid or clever. I wanted to find out about UA policy.

As I said, in Europe they would hand out the same food voucher and hotel room to you wether you were broke or the Prince of Persia (or both *g*). OK, maybe there are extra perks for better customers.

There is also good service outside Europe: I was travelling on a dirt cheap Cathay Pacific ticket FRA-HKG-MEL and, if my information is correct, they had a technical issue in Frankfurt. I just missed the connection in HKG. Although I only had to wait during the day (no night-stay), Cathay imediately booked me a nice hotel room at the airport and two full meals at the hotel's restaurant. I hadn't even asked for a hotel room.

I could also tell you about the hundreds of Euros a European Star Alliance airline spent on a long distance taxi for just me (although I had preferred to simply fly 24 hours later) - but then they would make a fuss about a couple of reward miles. Go figure. :-)

Dont understand why husband and wife werent flying together either.


My brother and his wife have three kids. Whenever possible, they travel by plane separately if by themselves on a trip, in case the unthinkable happens. That way the kids would have at least one parent surviving.

I have heard of others doing the same.

Is this person Hungarian? (you brought it up.) If so, the entry requirements to the US for a Hungarian contains a line about having proof of "sufficient funds". Also, when traveling abroad, I try to know in advance if the public water supply is potable. In the US, it is. Sure, sme places on well water may have disolved gassesand/or minerals that make it taste/smell funny.

I'm not trying to pil on to the bashing, but the issue on this thread isn't the original situation, but the excuses as to how unprepared the passenger was. The asssumptionsmade about water, the lack of language, the religious aspects of food. Are these real reasons, or are these straw man arguements being brought up to find individual cases where te qestions might not be valid. For all of them to be combined into 1 person...ell, that is just too many coincidens. A non-english speaker, flying between 2 english speaking countries, who is afraid to drink the public water supply in the US, with religious restrictions on diet, whose cell phone forwarding company is out of service, who has no currecny or access to any, even though they are requires to by immigration rules...this seems to be the type of person who should travel with someone, or with a purse with either funds or access to funds. Emergencis happen, and anyone this unprepard is likely one day to test Darwin's presentation to the Linnean Society, "On the Tendency of Species to form Varieties; and on the Perpetuation of Varieties and Species by Natural Means of Selection". We do live in a technological world, whre what is needed to survive in a 1st world city is different than what was required to survie on th farm in a less technological ountry. But if one want to use the convienences of today's technology, onecannot live in a vaccume, but must adapt to the envirnment that the technology brings One ants to use these high tech things like airplans, one must pass thru modern towns/cities/airports and b able to navigate them.

Sorry the friend had a bad experience, but again, if one uses modern technology in a society built around that technology, one needs to be prepared to survive in it. NASA doesn't send men to te moon without being prepared for many emergencies that that environment presents.

Your location says "YHZ". Canadian rules are far more similar to US rules than EU rules. What would AC do in such a situation?

Are you saying that what stopped your friend from buying food from a vending machine is that she did not want to violate her own religious rules? Like, she was unsure if the food contained pork and the vending machine couldn't tell her if the food contained pork?

I'm not saying anything of the sort. I was simply pointing out examples of challenges travellers can face.

BTW, its not just about pork. And not only about religion. There was quite a fuss in India when people found out that the fries at McDonald's weren't vegetarian. (BTW: Don't tell vegetarians the ins and outs of wine production!)

I don't know. She said everything was closing down. But it is not my point wether she is rich or poor, stupid or clever. I wanted to find out about UA policy.

I think everyone gets what you're saying. Your argument is that how much cash your friend had was moot because she shouldn't need to spend it in the first place. I understand that. But your friend wanted to make UA responsible for all of her needs, up to and including a toothbrush and international phone call. Had UA provided your friend with a hotel voucher, how would she have called you then? Practically no business allows customers free long distance phone calls. Had she called you from the hotel she would have needed- again- a credit or debit card to charge the call to. And it's not malice or greed on a business's part. Most business land lines just aren't set up to make international calls at all. (You'd get an error message.)


There is also good service outside Europe: I was travelling on a dirt cheap Cathay Pacific ticket FRA-HKG-MEL and, if my information is correct, they had a technical issue in Frankfurt. I just missed the connection in HKG. Although I only had to wait during the day (no night-stay), Cathay imediately booked me a nice hotel room at the airport and two full meals at the hotel's restaurant. I hadn't even asked for a hotel room.

Yes, because it was a technical issue. Airlines are responsible for compensation due to technical issues. But not weather issues. That's because airlines can (in theory) control their technology, but not the weather. And although you (rightfully) got a voucher for a hotel stay and two meals, I'm willing to bet they didn't give you a free pass to call Bangkok on their phones.

My cell phone's plan does not allow international calls. (I have an extra phone for when I travel.) I couldn't let your friend use my phone, but you better believe I would have helped her by showing her how calling cards worked. If this woman was so confused and unprepared she could not find water or food, I probably would alert airport security or the police.

Airlines and airports are not babysitting services. If your friend needs this much guidance she should not to be traveling alone.

^^

And calls to Canada, for those with it enabled, aren't all that much that someone wouldn't have allowed her a 3 minute phone call. I certainly would have. Or as you said, help her find a calling card. Since she seems to have had some manner of credit/debit card, one can usually even charge direct to a credit card through the automated operator, albeit at a higher cost.


sokolov I find this thread weird. On the one hand there are friendly folks who have answered my question about what is standard policy at UA.

Be honest, you weren't really questioning if UA intentionally sets out to strand passengers (you know the answer to that), but ranting about the situation.

Then there are some FTers questioning why she couldn't find food. I dunno and it is besides my point. These posters are probably more adventurous in running around a strange airport at night and would most likely have found a nice steak with a Cabernet Sauvignon to go with it.

Well, your OP was fairly antagonistic towards UA and included all of that background as context to why it was so wrong of UA to do this (or that's how it came across anyway). So don't be surprised if people comment on those background details.

The alleged stupidity/unprepardness/whatever of my friend just explains why EU lawmakers think airlines should take care. Yes, it might increase the average airfare by $2 or 3 (see the relevant Ryanair surcharge in Europe) and I'm sorry to hear that some would find this prohibitive.

Not to go too far OT, but I guess this shows the huge gap in mindset between with the EU. Not that long ago people took some oxen and a wagon and set out across the continent...Polynesians moved across an entire ocean in canoes...all sorts of adventures in conditiosn none of us truly appreciate, with no one there to babysit them. And now an airline must be responsible to house, feed, and water grown adults when their travels are delayed due to circumstances beyond the airline's control - it absolutely blows my mind. I guess if the current EU mindset was in place 500 years ago, I'd be speaking Cherokee right now.

Then there are wise cracks going on about water fountains. In most countries you are told from an early age NOT to drink from these fountains. Personally, I've learned it the hard way to choose very carefully in which international airports I should (not) uses these fountains. I can perfectly understand why someone would generally stay away from them. And she did.

I"ll take your word that in some country people don't use water fountains... but the US water supply is perfectly clean as is Canada's - both the cleanest in the world as far as sanitation. I always find out if the destination country has potable tap water or not.


For all of them to be combined into 1 person...ell, that is just too many coincidens. A non-english speaker, flying between 2 english speaking countries, who is afraid to drink the public water supply in the US, with religious restrictions on diet, whose cell phone forwarding company is out of service, who has no currecny or access to any, even though they are requires to by immigration rules...this seems to be the type of person who should travel with someone, or with a purse with either funds or access to funds.

It seems pretty unlikely, hence some of the reactions! Maybe it is all the case but still, talk about being unprepared.

Look, I'm not unsympathetic to someone in a bad spot, but at the same time the OP rant with a dozen excuses as to why UA is the bad guy due to circumstances that the traveler should have been able to overcome...it's almost too much to read with a straight face. Let's save the angst for when UA, or the other airlines, are really at fault!

I agree with the current state of compensation for weather delays in the US. What gets me is the unfettered use of weather as an excuse in many circumstances in which I feel weather should not be the reason. For example, last week my inbound aircraft was marginally late arriving in SFO (less than an hour) due to weather. No prob there, but they then claimed a crew issue due to weather. The crew would not be available for what would be almost 14 hours! The flight was supposed to leave before 11:30am and didn't leave until 3:50am the next day. Because of the weather excuse, no compensation or voucher was offered at all. :mad:

Your example explains one of the reasons for the strong regulation in the EU. It wasn't always like that, but airlines blamed a lot of cancellations/delays on weather or technical issues (though, in fact, it was all about money). So the lawmakers said: "OK, you don't have to pay cash compensation, but you still have to cater for your passengers."

And although you (rightfully) got a voucher for a hotel stay and two meals, I'm willing to bet they didn't give you a free pass to call Bangkok on their phones.

As I recall, I was able to communicate with my friend in Melbourne, yes. I don't remember if it was a phone call or WiFi. But it was free. I think they also had a package with toothbrush, toothpaste, etc. - or maybe they had been handing that to all passengers on the plane anyway. In any case, it was from the airline.

If she could pay for wifi, she could have paid for a hotel near EWR; plenty provide free shuttles.

As I recall, I was able to communicate with my friend in Melbourne, yes. I don't remember if it was a phone call or WiFi. But it was free. I think they also had a package with toothbrush, toothpaste, etc. - or maybe they had been handing that to all passengers on the plane anyway. In any case, it was from the airline.

Fair enough. However:

they had a technical issue in Frankfurt.

As an aside, I've been given a food voucher due to a weather delay on Continental. It was just a courtesy because a 10-hour flight was delayed 6 hours. It wasn't anything the airline was required to do.

As others have mentioned, your friend is entitled to purchase very affordable insurance that would cover these circumstances.

I'd be really interested to know how travel insurance would have helped in this regard if the person in question wasn't even capable of making a phone call. She'd still be fronting expenses. It isn't like the ins. co. has some money fairy standing around EWR to pass out coins and vouchers.

When you travel, you have to have at least nominal sums available to yourself for situations just like this. I don't see how having travel ins. would have changed how the lady in question would have made different decisions, do you? I'm open to a lucid argument/explanation—perhaps it might change my opinion about some fountain of cash I've been missing out on.

I'd be really interested to know how travel insurance would have helped in this regard if the person in question wasn't even capable of making a phone call.

If you can't be resourceful enough to devise a way to make an emergency phone call then you really don't deserve help.

It's really beside the point. I'd prefer people know the rules and prepare accordingly rather than make everyone pay extra for the added benefits.

I'd prefer people know the rules and prepare accordingly rather than make everyone pay extra for the added benefits.

I agree with this, which is why I questioned your previous statement on how having purchased travel ins. was germane to this stranded passenger's situation.

I am still trying to understand how she was unable to purchase food or water if she was in the Newark airport for 12 hours.

Even assuming she arrived very late - 10 or 11 p.m. - and everything was, in fact, shut down, there are breakfast places open as early as 6 a.m. and they all take credit or debit cards.

can someone tell me if the ability to make a Person to person call and reversing the charges still exists? I believe it does. sure that means someone has to be at the landline being called and its anything but cheap. but the OPs friend could have at least tried that, its something that can be done WorldWide, since AT&T was broken up dialing 0 wont do it but the operator Im sure will give the person the access #s they need so that it can be done, and most pay phones ahve those stickers which 800# to call to call collect

If on the other ahnd a person wants to everything on the Cheap, well give the OPs friend a warm round of Congradulations they accomplished that, but they seem none to happy for doing so

Is this person Hungarian? (you brought it up.)

Canadian. But someone brought up the question about first language - and, no, her first language is not English, it is Hungarian.

And, no, she didn't have any religious reasons. It was just an example. "Buying from the vending machine" just doesn't work for everybody. It was not a factor in the individual case.

Why she didn't leave the airport? I don't know. Maybe she was too tired. I would have thought "Yeah, a free stopover in NY! Where is the next Jazz bar?" Or something like that.

If you can't be resourceful enough to devise a way to make an emergency phone call then you really don't deserve help.

She did call me, didn't she?

Be honest, you weren't really questioning if UA intentionally sets out to strand passengers (you know the answer to that), but ranting about the situation.

I was really surprised that UA had NOT helped her. So I wanted to find out if that was a singular event or standard practice.

I have figured that out on page 1 of this thread. Why it gets repeated over and over again is beyond me.

In Europe, a lot of people point to the US as the prime example of a service orientation and they lament over the low level experienced in Europe. If only they knew...

There is similar regulation for trains and buses in the EU, BTW. But even before that regulation was introduced, some companies had (and still have) various "on time" promises. For example, on the high speed rail network you receive a full refund of your ticket if the train is 5 or 15 minutes late (depending on the route) - even IF weather is the reason for the delay. If the delay is longer, you might be entitled to a) care and maybe b) cash compensation on top.

5 minutes! Not more than 12 hours!

Beside money, phone or whatever else, a traveler should also be equipped with contact phone numbers of the airline(s) in the involved country(ies). On a bad day at one airport, misconnected/stranded passengers should know how to rearrange their flights without airline personnel at the airport.

I was really surprised that UA had NOT helped her. So I wanted to find out if that was a singular event or standard practice.


FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY UNITED AIRLINES DID HELP HER. THEY BOOKED HER ON THE NEXT FLIGHT OUT.

What in the world could they have done other than that? Given her food and water? That's an instinct ants possess. Given her money? Where did hers go? Put her up in a hotel? The ticket she purchased stated (In writing. On the actual ticket.) the airline is not responsible for weather delays. Let her use their phone to call Canada? Their phones probably can't.

Do you honestly, truly, seriously not see all of this? Or will you just continue to think up examples of how the average traveler is bereft of succor from his fellow man? Do vending machines need instructions in all 1,300 spoken languages? Do water fountains need signs assuring wayward sheltered Hungarians that water found in a first world country drinking fountain is in fact safe to drink?

I think everyone gets what you're saying.

I'm not so sure about that. :-)

Your argument is that how much cash your friend had was moot because she shouldn't need to spend it in the first place. I understand that. But your friend wanted to make UA responsible for all of her needs, up to and including a toothbrush and international phone call.

Actually I am of the opiniong that the phone call should be the first thing to provide. It would cost the airline hardly anything and it can go a long way. It could even be a robo-call.

Toothbrushes I don't care so much but they are cheap, too. And it would be a courtesy to the passenger in the NEXT seat 12 hours later. :-)

What in the world could they have done other than that?

I'm sorry to learn that you have trouble following the discussion.

Given her food and water?

Yes. (Or a voucher to a place that is actually open, plus directions to said place.)

Given her money?

Depends.

Where did hers go?

Easy one: To the airline. :-)

Put her up in a hotel?

That is the law in the EU (and probably other places).

Let her use their phone to call Canada? Their phones probably can't.

They fly to Canada. So they must have means of real-time communication to Canada. But a robo-call or a text message would have done the trick.

To first block international calls and then say "sorry, we can't" is lame. They could, for example, have pre-arranged calling cards with a 3 minute call value. If bought in bulk this is very cheap, maybe even free if it is built on a freemium model.

Do water fountains need signs assuring wayward sheltered Hungarians that water found in a first world country drinking fountain is in fact safe to drink?

Actually, the staff had given her one advice: "Don't lie on the floor, there are lots of rats." I don't think *I* would drink from water fountains if I got such a warning. No matter how many signs would invite me to do otherwise. And I'm not so picky, usually.

can someone tell me if the ability to make a Person to person call and reversing the charges still exists? I believe it does. sure that means someone has to be at the landline being called

I would like to know how that works as well. I don't have a landline, mobile phone only. If I was on the receiving end, would that get billed to my cell phone? What if it was a prepaid phone (pay as you go)? Or would I need to hand over my credit card details? Do they accept foreign credit cards? (A lot of places don't, especially telcos, been there done that.) How much is such a call anyway?

I am still trying to understand how she was unable to purchase food or water if she was in the Newark airport for 12 hours.

Even assuming she arrived very late - 10 or 11 p.m. - and everything was, in fact, shut down, there are breakfast places open as early as 6 a.m. and they all take credit or debit cards.

Good question, I don't know. Maybe she was asleep when they opened or didn't feel like putting anything in her stomach. Maybe she was happy at the time. People do weird things when the feel stressed.

But it is not my problem, really. And I can't even solve it without going back in time.

I was trying to establish the policy for future travel arrangements. I had expected better from a Star Alliance airline. Spirit - not so much.

Yes. (Or a voucher to a place that is actually open, plus directions to said place.)


Now this has really jumped the shark...come on, this whole thread has to be a joke, right? Shall they also hold the spoon and place the food into her mouth for her?


That is the law in the EU (and probably other places).

Well, it isn't in the US or Canada, so be prepared accordingly when traveling. Or don't travel here since this is such a backward, undeveloped continent.:rolleyes:

Now this has really jumped the shark...come on, this whole thread has to be a joke, right? Shall they also hold the spoon and place the food into her mouth for her?

This is someone who claims setting up an auto-dialing service to people United doesn't even have the number for would be cheap or even free. I started to suspect troll a few pages ago.

I was trying to establish the policy for future travel arrangements. I had expected better from a Star Alliance airline. Spirit - not so much.

then expect exactly what I do even as a 1K with UA = NOTHING when its a WX or ATC issue other then a rebooking on another flight, Everything else is out of pocket and Thank G-D for all the hotel pts I have as Ive used every Winter when I thought Id be stuck and indeed was and not being able to fly back into NY due to snow or whatever

Thats also why I Always fly with at least 1 change of underwear, socks and shirt in my carry-on, just in case.

The best way to see the future is to Expect things to go wrong and be prepared for it! If nothing happens you still win! Dont expect UA,DL,AA BA SQ etc etc to pick up any tab, if they do you win if they dont youre prepared, thats how I travel, and sometimes even that wont be enough in the end but Im usually good for a min of 48 hrs if thrown off course

OP you got into knots cause you figured UA should do certain things, which they werent Obligated to do and didnt do,Im sorry to say

I find this thread weird. On the one hand there are friendly folks who have answered my question about what is standard policy at UA. And some have asked me where it is different and I explained the law in the European Union (airlines have to cater with hotel, food and communication, and in non-weather/non-terror/non-strike related cases also with substantial payouts). Someone else added info on Canadian policies. Thank you for these contributions, they were educative and I have decided to book with UA on occasion again since other US-based airlines aren't better in that regard.

I am one of them who starts this mess :D

My concern is in WX, no airlines will provide any accommodations except re-booking, cancellation, and re-routing, right? (OP's friend clearly did not understand this part.)

Then someone went ahead and said EU covers this.

The EU side-discussion is what makes this thread "weird".

:td:

I did. The flight into YHZ was even early! (Telling me that they really could have waited a few minutes for her.)

I did not know what flight she had on her first leg, I only knew about her scheduled arrival flight.



I'll try to stay away from the food and water debate raging in this thread.:D

As to the above, a note to the OP: when I have to meet up with people or pick them up from the airport, I always request their entire itinerary of flights for this specific reason.

It's good to know what IRROPS they are encountering on the way and not just on the one flight to where I pick them up. I've also been able to assist remotely in getting them redirected/rerouted. It's easier if I have access to a computer at home with a fast internet connection instead of them trying to surf from a smartphone.

I've been able to text re-routing suggestions while someone is still on hold with the airline or in line at the counter.

As to the above, a note to the OP: when I have to meet up with people or pick them up from the airport, I always request their entire itinerary of flights for this specific reason.


Often, I meet foreign travellers on their arrival to the US for the first time. Sometimes, their first time on a plane. I get not only their itinerary in avance but also their PNR and ticket numbers. Frustrating to chase down a missing person without needed information.

I am one of them who starts this mess :D

My concern is in WX, no airlines will provide any accommodations except re-booking, cancellation, and re-routing, right? (OP's friend clearly did not understand this part.)

Then someone went ahead and said EU covers this.

The EU side-discussion is what makes this thread "weird".

Actually, the OP mentioned the EU is their original thread. That was their point of reference. And if their friend is Hungarian, that is her point of reference, too.

So the first two answers (post two and three) tried to explain that EU law is not US law and that the airlines in the US don't cover accommodations for weather delays. Eventually we (you and I) got into a side debate and various other people added their two cents about EU law.

Having lived in and flown in Europe for the past seven years, I can say that I have always received accommodation in weather delays. Except at my home airport, since I can just go home. There are really quite a few FlyerTalk threads on EU261--try doing a search (if you're interested, that is) and you will see that the conclusion is that weather = right of care (hotel + food) and other delays (mechanicals, overbooking) = right of care plus compensation.

By the way, the articles you mentioned in an earlier post didn't address the EU law in any way--they just reported that people were sleeping on the floors of airports. There are many possible reasons for this--people not wanting to leave the airport for fear of not being let back in (one article mentioned this), airport hotels full, not knowing about EU261, etc.

My sense from this thread is that EU regs are very unusual to Americans because that's not the way we do things in the US. But different isn't the same as wrong. On the other hand, since the US is NOT the same as the EU, European travelers need to know the rules here and be prepared as most posters have noted.

This is someone who claims setting up an auto-dialing service to people United doesn't even have the number for would be cheap or even free. I started to suspect troll a few pages ago.

You just ask the traveller for name and number of the person-to-call and the preferred language and enter that in the computer system. Text messages could be offerd as an alternative. Thanks to modern day marvels of technology it's all not a big deal if you care about your customers.

I can see merit to both sides of the argument for/against providing lodging in weather delays.


Providing benefits for WX delays costs a lot of money. If competitors aren't doing it, any given airline has less than zero motivation to do it. The only thing that would make this happen is regulation (a la the European Union rules) that forces airlines to do it.

"Being nice to people when bad things happen" is not covered by the prices most people are willing to fly. The regulation adds both benefits (you get a hotel when it's raining) and costs (this costs the airlines money, which gets pushed back into ticket prices).

You can consult with your favorite congressman to determine which model you prefer. So far throughout the US and Canada, it's always been to have cheaper tickets and no weather protection...

So the first two answers (post two and three) tried to explain that EU law is not US law and that the airlines in the US don't cover accommodations for weather delays. Eventually we (you and I) got into a side debate and various other people added their two cents about EU law.

Having lived in and flown in Europe for the past seven years, I can say that I have always received accommodation in weather delays. Except at my home airport, since I can just go home. There are really quite a few FlyerTalk threads on EU261--try doing a search (if you're interested, that is) and you will see that the conclusion is that weather = right of care (hotel + food) and other delays (mechanicals, overbooking) = right of care plus compensation.

By the way, the articles you mentioned in an earlier post didn't address the EU law in any way--they just reported that people were sleeping on the floors of airports. There are many possible reasons for this--people not wanting to leave the airport for fear of not being let back in (one article mentioned this), airport hotels full, not knowing about EU261, etc.

My sense from this thread is that EU regs are very unusual to Americans because that's not the way we do things in the US. But different isn't the same as wrong.

Thank you for this very sane and on-the-topic post. It sums it up very well.

On the other hand, since the US is NOT the same as the EU, European travelers need to know the rules here and be prepared as most posters have noted.

I fully agree. Hence I asked. Little did I know this would spark a ~100 post thread. :-)

You just ask the traveller for name and number of the person-to-call and the preferred language and enter that in the computer system. Text messages could be offerd as an alternative. Thanks to modern day marvels of technology it's all not a big deal if you care about your customers.

Actually the airlines were much better about this years ago. They were much more customer service oriented. I really believe the industry has become so large and overwhelming that the little things that make a big difference have been lost in the process. On the flip side with nearly everyone having texting and cell service, they probably think people can do this for themselves.

Actually the airlines were much better about this years ago. They were much more customer service oriented. I really believe the industry has become so large and overwhelming that the little things that make a big difference have been lost in the process. On the flip side with nearly everyone having texting and cell service, they probably think people can do this for themselves.

The airlines were much better with various things years ago. Not long ago we had poor food provided on domestic North American flights. Some time before we had good food provided on the same flights.

The problem is not that the industry has become too large, but rather it has become too small. Not enough competition means not enough customer service.

Let us remember that the reasons airlines started to offer food on board was that one had to pay on the train. Competition. Not any more, not really -- yes there are a few airlines but all the seats are nearly full: supply and demand is on the suppliers side and things will get even poorer.

Weather related delays are considered extraordinary under EU261. I would not consider that a "very very unusual" circumstance.

The highest court of the EU has just sentenced an airline for compensation for delays caused by the eruption of that ineffable Icelandic volcano. A few years ago it had shut down most of Europe's airspace for weeks.

Now if a volcano eruption far off Europe's mainland is not "extraordinary", then I don't know what weather/nature event would be. I think the "extraordinary" is mainly geared at warfare, big terrorist attacks, etc.

The only one heavily upset by that decision is ugly Ryanair. They are spitting out their usual terms of endearment. Other airlines were quoted as saying: "Meh." :-)

The highest court of the EU has just sentenced an airline for compensation for delays caused by the eruption of that ineffable Icelandic volcano. A few years ago it had shut down most of Europe's airspace for weeks.

Now if a volcano eruption far off Europe's mainland is not "extraordinary", then I don't know what weather/nature event would be. I think the "extraordinary" is mainly geared at warfare, big terrorist attacks, etc.

The only one heavily upset by that decision is ugly Ryanair. They are spitting out their usual terms of endearment. Other airlines were quoted as saying: "Meh." :-)

Worst decision I've seen from ECJ in awhile. To force compensation for a volcano tens of times more then the original ticket will only force airlines to charge more as "insurance".

"Meh" is fine for LH/BA/etc - $10 a reservation is easily covered. Ryanair - not so much.

Personally, I see zero linkage between your original post, FT conclusions, and this news. Nice try, though.

I am still trying to understand how she was unable to purchase food or water if she was in the Newark airport for 12 hours.

Even assuming she arrived very late - 10 or 11 p.m. - and everything was, in fact, shut down, there are breakfast places open as early as 6 a.m. and they all take credit or debit cards.

6am? Try 4am, we.. before the first flights are out. Also, probably there are plenty of 24h shops.

Worst decision I've seen from ECJ in awhile. To force compensation for a volcano tens of times more then the original ticket will only force airlines to charge more as "insurance".

"Meh" is fine for LH/BA/etc - $10 a reservation is easily covered. Ryanair - not so much.

All airlines should, at least, follow the law. To ignore law and rules time and again can be an unfair advantage in competition. I'm a huge fan of fair competition. I'm not a huge fan of Ryanair. Does it show? :-)

Personally, I see zero linkage between your original post, FT conclusions, and this news. Nice try, though.

Not with my original post, no. But some posts in this thread created a sentiment akin to "no airline would cover you". Others said something like "very bad weather is an extraordinary event" which would not even be covered by EU regulations. Turns out that even a volcano eruption is covered by EU regulations.

Of course, these rules do not apply to United flights within North America.

Is there a Policy for the following? ORD outbound is cancelled due to a mechancial issue. Equipment is located elsewhere, which is delayed by weather at its origin. The original flight status is updated to "awaiting inbound", which reflects that new equipment, and all the status updates become about weather.
If the situation evolves enough to require action, I'll post an update.

Is there a Policy for the following? ORD outbound is cancelled due to a mechancial issue. Equipment is located elsewhere, which is delayed by weather at its origin. The original flight status is updated to "awaiting inbound", which reflects that new equipment, and all the status updates become about weather.
If the situation evolves enough to require action, I'll post an update.

Your IRROPS will still be considered as MX, not WX. So when your situation warrants, it will not be a problem for food and lodging.

Your IRROPS will still be considered as MX, not WX. So when your situation warrants, it will not be a problem for food and lodging.

A nice thought, be we have seen far too many incidents of GAs and phone drones claiming WX (and therefore "nothing for you!") when it was actually MX. The favorite trick seems to be when they try to swap a plane when one goes MX and then the swapped plane gets a WX delay, but there are other examples. OP has to document, push hard, and call "BS" when it happens.

Is leaving passengers stranded UA policy?

Heck no, if it was explain why very recently I diverted to MCI to pick up some stranded passengers while on my way from LAX to EWR. So no it's the exact opposite.

Not discounting your story but just like every airline or even company out there you had your bad times and your good times.

A nice thought, be we have seen far too many incidents of GAs and phone drones claiming WX (and therefore "nothing for you!") when it was actually MX. The favorite trick seems to be when they try to swap a plane when one goes MX and then the swapped plane gets a WX delay, but there are other examples. OP has to document, push hard, and call "BS" when it happens.

FWIW - I have never experience once that UA claims this and that...