Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate - Have you ever seen TSA workers outside of the airport?

I was washing my electric car this morning at a car wash when I saw that the car in front of me was owned by a female TSA worker. It was the first time I had ever seen such a predator outside of their natural habitat & it ENRAGED ME!!!!! I couldn't control my emotions. I was actually rather taken aback by my own reaction.

Have you ever seen a TSA worker outside of the airport? How did you react?

One lives across the street from me.

Please follow the thread as it moves to the appropriate forum dedicated to airport security matters. Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator, TravelBuzz.

i was just finishing up pumping my gas at Costco when the car at the pump ahead of me left. At this point I would have expected the car waiting behind me to go around me and use the forward pump. (It's the Costco way.) But it didn't. Oh well. There was no one else waiting so I took the time to put my credit card away and look around for materials to clean off my windshield. After a couple minutes the lady from the car behind me came up to my car window and demanded to know whether I was done. She had on the familiar blue shirt and acted as though she expected me to immediately drive off.

I tried to point out that the forward pump was wide open so she could use it whenever she was ready. But she didn't want to hear it and stormed back to her car. Her car was a normal size and there was plenty of room to go around me so I took the time to finish my business and then left. Not sure what her problem was.

Edited to add: As for my reaction? I was proud of myself for not reminding her that she was not at the airport and didn't have any special power here. (Isn't there a line from the Wizard of Oz something like that?)

I don't work for the TSA, but I do have a job with public contact and I wear a uniform. I usually wear my uniform TO work and have no problem running errands in it. If I stop to put gas in my car or wash my car, I don't see that as a problem.

Now if I saw a pilot at a bar in uniform having a drink, I would have a problem with that.

I don't work for the TSA, but I do have a job with public contact and I wear a uniform. I usually wear my uniform TO work and have no problem running errands in it. If I stop to put gas in my car or wash my car, I don't see that as a problem.

Now if I saw a pilot at a bar in uniform having a drink, I would have a problem with that.

It was fine that she had her uniform shirt on. But you'd think that when your uniform makes you pretty recognizable to the public when you are off duty you would act in a way that would make your employer proud.

I work retail and have seen a three striper in the store a few times. One morning while I was checking on an item for someone on the phone she asked if I could help her. I told her it'd be just a moment but It took an act of God to keep from grabbing my walkie and calling "Female assist!" to whatever department we were in. :D Glad I didn't because when I flew a couple weeks later she was the TDC. :eek:

I work retail and have seen a three striper in the store a few times. One morning while I was checking on an item for someone on the phone she asked if I could help her. I told her it'd be just a moment but It took an act of God to keep from grabbing my walkie and calling "Female assist!" to whatever department we were in. :D Glad I didn't because when I flew a couple weeks later she was the TDC. :eek:

Now, that's funny. If only you would have done that and somehow videotaped it. It would be the hit of YouTube.

I
Now if I saw a pilot at a bar in uniform having a drink, I would have a problem with that.

Not to get too off topic but nearly every flying squadron in the United States Air Force has a bar...in the squadron usually with a kegerator.
Not to mention the few o'clubs that are still popular. You will see pilots in uniform drinking there on a weekly basis or I presume you just meant commercial?

i was just finishing up pumping my gas at Costco...

I suspect she was "on assignment" and annoyed that you blew her cover. ;)

Imagine the havoc if a terrorist launched an attack in the midst of a Costco gas station queue.

It's probably on the list of places where we can expect to be groped in future by the boys and girls in blue. :rolleyes:

I see them periodically when riding MARTA, which makes sense since MARTA runs directly to the airport. Though if they ever try and sit next to me, the seat will be taken; I'll get up and stand at the other end of the car if they insist and won't be afraid to tell them and anyone in earshot why I'm moving if someone asks.

Edited to add: As for my reaction? I was proud of myself for not reminding her that she was not at the airport and didn't have any special power here. (Isn't there a line from the Wizard of Oz something like that?)You're a better man (person?) than I.

A blueshirt being obnoxious outside the airport would have received a withering tongue-lashing from me ^ .

You're a better man (person?) than I.

A blueshirt being obnoxious outside the airport would have received a withering tongue-lashing from me ^ .

You can't turn the obnoxiousness on and off, so you know this is exactly the way she acts at the airport. I wonder how close she came to playing the "federal officer" card on the OP???

I see them periodically when riding MARTA, which makes sense since MARTA runs directly to the airport. Though if they ever try and sit next to me, the seat will be taken; I'll get up and stand at the other end of the car if they insist and won't be afraid to tell them and anyone in earshot why I'm moving if someone asks.

I occasionally see them on the DC Metro -- probably on their way to & from DCA. As far as I can tell, they are not harassing Metro riders other than by being there in uniform.

Go to their HQ across from the Pentagon City mall and you'll see packs of them coming and going -- a lot of whom are standing around smoking.

Back in 2010 I had dinner at an Outback Steakhouse, and the folks at the next table were close enough that I could hear their whole conversation without eavesdropping. It was a TSO and her mother, having a nice social dinner together. When I realized that she was a TSO, I stuck up a civil conversation with her and found out that she was an LTSO from DCA. We particularly discussed the despicable violations of scope and grope, which were still fairly new at the time. I shot down every argument she made - in a polite, friendly, non-confrontational manner, using info I've learned from FT. I never mentioned FT, however; I have heard that some TSOs recognize the site's name and immediately get confrontational when they find out you're a member here, and I didn't want to test that.

It turned out to be a pleasant encounter. I don't think I convinced her of anything; she was most definitely an AFS type. But I think I may have made her think a little more analytically about the carp she was being asked to foist upon the innocent traveler, and maybe that was the beginning of wisdom for her. We can only hope.

But you'd think that when your uniform makes you pretty recognizable to the public when you are off duty you would act in a way that would make your employer proud.

I'm not sure why you'd expect better behavior when off-duty in uniform than on-duty in uniform.

I talk to them all the time on the light rail going down to SeaTac.

This isn't exactly outside the airport.
I returned to DTW from DEN after a ski trip. The TSA leased parking space in the same lot I parked. I loaded my ski stuff onto the bus and stepped back to the curb for my bag when a herd of TSA (shift change time I guess) pushed past me and filled the entire bus. Even though I had stuff on the bus, there were no seats and the driver wouldn't/couldn't let me on. So, I had to haul my stuff back off the bus and wait for the next.

This was before I detested the TSA. It was the first episode of many.

I've seen them cut to the front of a long line at a 7-11 near the airport. No one dared say a word. I was on my way to the airport (others besides the TSOs may have also been flying that day). Can't risk objecting and then finding out that one of them will be sticking hands in my pants and between my legs at the checkpoint.

The clerk apologized to everyone in line, but there was nothing he could do. Maybe he flies too.

I'm a 'civilian', but at my company, you are advised on hiring that your behavior outside the company reflects on the company and misbehavior is grounds for firing. We don't wear uniforms, but of course, when folks make the news for misbehavior, it is not uncommon for their employer to be mentioned in the local news if the employer is a very large company.

I've seen them cut to the front of a long line at a 7-11 near the airport. No one dared say a word. I was on my way to the airport (others besides the TSOs may have also been flying that day). Can't risk objecting and then finding out that one of them will be sticking hands in my pants and between my legs at the checkpoint.

The clerk apologized to everyone in line, but there was nothing he could do. Maybe he flies too.

I'm a 'civilian', but at my company, you are advised on hiring that your behavior outside the company reflects on the company and misbehavior is grounds for firing. We don't wear uniforms, but of course, when folks make the news for misbehavior, it is not uncommon for their employer to be mentioned in the local news if the employer is a very large company.

The clerk committed an ethics violation. As government employees, we are prohibited from using our office or status for personal gain. They should be reported to the TSA and to the Office of Government Ethics.

I did this years ago in Tuscon (airside, no less) when a clerk jumped to the head of the line in the coffee shop. I asked him he knew that he had just committed an ethics violation. He got belligerent with me, so I walked back with him to the checkpoint, summoned the supervisor, and had the same conversation. I wrote up the entire incident on the DHS IG website and filled out a comment card. I reminded both of them that there were plenty of federal employees and military personnel transiting airports who know chapter & verse of the ethics laws and wouldn't hesitate to ruin a clerk's day.

I've seen them cut to the front of a long line at a 7-11 near the airport. No one dared say a word. I was on my way to the airport (others besides the TSOs may have also been flying that day). Can't risk objecting and then finding out that one of them will be sticking hands in my pants and between my legs at the checkpoint.

The clerk apologized to everyone in line, but there was nothing he could do. Maybe he flies too.

I'm a 'civilian', but at my company, you are advised on hiring that your behavior outside the company reflects on the company and misbehavior is grounds for firing. We don't wear uniforms, but of course, when folks make the news for misbehavior, it is not uncommon for their employer to be mentioned in the local news if the employer is a very large company.

I'd say lots of words if it was in front of me. Once, a woman attempted to barge into the line at the post office directly in front of me, and I closed up the line, pointing out where the line starts. The person behind me let her get in front of her, and she spend the next several minutes in line rattling obscenities at me and demanding to speak to a manager of the same skin tone as herself, as if that meant something. I was prepared to call 911 if she touched me, and I'd do that for a TS"O" as well.

I've often seen TSOs on public transport to/from airports. I also deal with one on another forum who acts like Bob there. @_@ I've seen that same TSO off duty and out of uniform at an event, but had no interaction as there were 30,000 other people at the same event.

Keep in mind the types of people drawn to work for the TSA: people who take personal pleasure in being able to exercise absolute authority over other people with zero accountability. On the job, they assault and steal from passengers, and declare that they have the final word on whether or not someone is flying--and whether or not someone is allowed to continue to their flight with their colostomy bag intact. Off the job, they decide that every person with whom they come in contact is under their absolute authority.

This is no different from the occasional story of an LEO who attempts to "shakedown" a restaurant for free food by offering to not arrest the cashier for fun. I'm still waiting for a TS"O" to attempt this.

If you refuse to let a TS"O" barge into the line in front of you, I could hear it now: "I recognize you; you fly out of my airport every week. Now you're on my airport's no-fly list."

Whenever I go to TLH, I see TS"O"s walking between the terminal and employee parking in full uniform. Since most of my trips there are to drop off or pick up someone else, I've been sorely tempted to either give one the finger, or as I walk by, stick out my lower lip, roll my eyes, shake my head, and breathe through my nose heavily, as you would towards an obnoxious coworker who thinks he's your boss and attempts to micromanage you.

TSA employees are accountable for their actions outside of work particularly when they can be identified as TSA employees such as when they are wearing a uniform. I don't believe that OIG is going to investigate a TSO for cutting in front of you in a convenience store. And even if you reported it to me as a TSM, then I would have a hard time doing anything about it unless you said something to the TSO.

A better tactic would be to verbally tell the TSA employee that he wasn't allowed to cut in line ("the line starts back there" or whatever), and if he ignores you then you have pretty clear cut evidence for a local charge of "failure to exercise courtesy and tact". If the person flashed his badged, pointed to his uniform, or in some way tried to use his TSA status as authority, then you would have a much more serious charge (probably career altering) against the individual.

castro

TSA employees are accountable for their actions outside of work particularly when they can be identified as TSA employees such as when they are wearing a uniform. I don't believe that OIG is going to investigate a TSO for cutting in front of you in a convenience store. And even if you reported it to me as a TSM, then I would have a hard time doing anything about it unless you said something to the TSO.

A better tactic would be to verbally tell the TSA employee that he wasn't allowed to cut in line ("the line starts back there" or whatever), and if he ignores you then you have pretty clear cut evidence for a local charge of "failure to exercise courtesy and tact". If the person flashed his badged, pointed to his uniform, or in some way tried to use his TSA status as authority, then you would have a much more serious charge (probably career altering) against the individual.

castro

TSOs at the airport (including supervisors) routinely refuse to give their names as a matter of policy. I once asked for a feedback form to praise a rare (unfortunately) professionally-behaved screener (whose badge was, nevertheless, turned over). I had to wait for a supervisor, then I had to wait for him to find a form, then I had to supply my ID/BP. I pointed out the employee and explained why I wanted to submit the form. He told me to fill it out right there, leave the employee name blank, and he would fill it in later. I had a plane to catch. I left without submitting the form, well aware that my ID/BP information were probably logged in some TSA database somewhere just because I asked for a feedback form (which should be readily available without asking).

I am not about to step up to a TSO in uniform, at the airport or at an off-airport site and ask for a name. I want to fly, I don't want my name on some TSA database somewhere, and I don't want more harassment during my future travels (by bus, plane or train).

The responsibility for TSO conduct rests with fellow TSOs, supervisors and management.

The responsibility for TSO conduct rests with fellow TSOs, supervisors and management.

...which means it's not going to happen.

...which means it's not going to happen.

Hasn't so far.

I would support a bonus being paid to any TSO who turns in another TSO for misconduct (assuming that TSO is found guilty of misconduct). We could call it an 'administrative' bonus. You know, apply the 'See something, say something' principles to their own co-workers.

'Good' TSOs would have nothing to fear from this and would benefit from a workplace free of 'bad apples'. So would the public.

'Good' TSOs would have nothing to fear from this and would benefit from a workplace free of 'bad apples'. So would the public.

Wrong. The "bad apples" would create false reports to get rid of the "good apples" (if indeed there are any in the festering pustulent swamp of moral decay we currently call "the TSA.")

Then the corrupt managers would fire the "good apples" based on those false reports.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

The TSA is beyond redemption. It needs to be abolished.

Agreed with caradoc.

I saw a pair of TSA employees on the city bus from the airport once. I did not interact with them.

(deleted)

Wrong. The "bad apples" would create false reports to get rid of the "good apples" (if indeed there are any in the festering pustulent swamp of moral decay we currently call "the TSA.")

Then the corrupt managers would fire the "good apples" based on those false reports.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

The TSA is beyond redemption. It needs to be abolished.

There are plenty of good apples that report the bad apples for free on a daily basis, but the POS managers are afraid to confront the bad apples. It's time to purge the managers.

You guys have seen them outside of the airport?

Shouldn't they be chained up at night?

There are plenty of good apples that report the bad apples for free on a daily basis, but the POS managers are afraid to confront the bad apples. It's time to purge the managers.

You can't blame the managers for everything. A huge reason for the toleration of "bad apples" within the federal workforce is due to personnel policies and regulations which make it almost impossible to fire a federal employee after they have completed their probationary employment period.

I don't guess you just mean outside of the terminal...

http://solanumonlinemedia.com/images/TSA%2012.JPG

I don't guess you just mean outside of the terminal...

http://solanumonlinemedia.com/images/TSA%2012.JPG

Wow -- On one hand, imagine getting groped by this guy?

On the other hand, he really needs some sort of intervention and discipline in his food intake if he plans to be vertical and above room temperature into middle age. I sincerely hope he has a wake-up call very soon.

On the other, other hand, I wonder how he got the job in the first place? On can presume he ate the box right along with the pizza.

You can't blame the managers for everything. A huge reason for the toleration of "bad apples" within the federal workforce is due to personnel policies and regulations which make it almost impossible to fire a federal employee after they have completed their probationary employment period.

Supposedly that has all changed now...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/travel/2018827766_webtsa01.html

Rep Mike Rogers, chairman of the House Homeland Security Transportation subcommittee "responded positively when told the TSA had started immediately firing employees caught stealing, using drugs or failing to screen passengers and luggage.

"That's a new development. I'm glad to hear that," Rogers said."

Of course, even if that's done, it won't matter if they keep reinstating 'bad apples' - like the HNL manager who has been re-instated twice now (two separate incidents) on appeal, with back pay and a promotion. Or Minetta Walters, BDO, who was dismissed and re-hired.

You can't blame the managers for everything. A huge reason for the toleration of "bad apples" within the federal workforce is due to personnel policies and regulations which make it almost impossible to fire a federal employee after they have completed their probationary employment period.
Wrong answer. :td: Managers have to be willing to invest the time to get rid of the bad apples. This usually interferes with their numerous coffee, ,smoke, and extended lunch breaks.

You can't blame the managers for everything. A huge reason for the toleration of "bad apples" within the federal workforce is due to personnel policies and regulations which make it almost impossible to fire a federal employee after they have completed their probationary employment period.

Of course, there's also the simple willingness to work shoulder-to-shoulder with the "bad apples..."

Back in 2010 I had dinner at an Outback Steakhouse, and the folks at the next table were close enough that I could hear their whole conversation without eavesdropping. It was a TSO and her mother, having a nice social dinner together. When I realized that she was a TSO, I stuck up a civil conversation with her and found out that she was an LTSO from DCA. We particularly discussed the despicable violations of scope and grope, which were still fairly new at the time. I shot down every argument she made - in a polite, friendly, non-confrontational manner, using info I've learned from FT. I never mentioned FT, however; I have heard that some TSOs recognize the site's name and immediately get confrontational when they find out you're a member here, and I didn't want to test that.

It turned out to be a pleasant encounter. I don't think I convinced her of anything; she was most definitely an AFS type. But I think I may have made her think a little more analytically about the carp she was being asked to foist upon the innocent traveler, and maybe that was the beginning of wisdom for her. We can only hope.

I have a yellow FT tag on my rollaboard... the TSOs and TDCs I've come into contact with have never noticed or said a word about it.

Supposedly that has all changed now...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/travel/2018827766_webtsa01.html

Rep Mike Rogers, chairman of the House Homeland Security Transportation subcommittee "responded positively when told the TSA had started immediately firing employees caught stealing, using drugs or failing to screen passengers and luggage.

"That's a new development. I'm glad to hear that," Rogers said."

Of course, even if that's done, it won't matter if they keep reinstating 'bad apples' - like the HNL manager who has been re-instated twice now (two separate incidents) on appeal, with back pay and a promotion. Or Minetta Walters, BDO, who was dismissed and re-hired.

Have you actually seen or talked to Minetta Walters?

Wrong answer. :td: Managers have to be willing to invest the time to get rid of the bad apples. This usually interferes with their numerous coffee, ,smoke, and extended lunch breaks.

You have no idea what you are talking about. We had an employee threaten another employee with bodily harm in the workplace - among other issues - and it took one year of massive management-level effort to get her terminated. The only reason HR finally gave in is that the FBI came to us with evidence of an additional"off-duty" crime.

Here's another example. If you are a med tech in the private sector and you make multiple patient ID errors, you're gone in a week. If your a med tech in the federal government and you make multiple patient ID errors while in your probationary period, it takes four months to fire you. When you a pharmacy tech in the federal government and you are caught stealing controlled substances, you appeal, spend 8 months answering the phone, and then win your job back with the only restriction being you can't handle narcotics. :rolleyes:

When you've spent time in management and have a clue what you're talking about, come back and we'll have a rational discussion.

Or Minetta Walters, BDO, who was dismissed and re-hired.

Did you mean Minetta Walker? (http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/erie/TSA-employees-past-raises-questions)

You have no idea what you are talking about. We had an employee threaten another employee with bodily harm in the workplace - among other issues - and it took one year of massive management-level effort to get her terminated. The only reason HR finally gave in is that the FBI came to us with evidence of an additional"off-duty" crime.

Here's another example. If you are a med tech in the private sector and you make multiple patient ID errors, you're gone in a week. If your a med tech in the federal government and you make multiple patient ID errors while in your probationary period, it takes four months to fire you. When you a pharmacy tech in the federal government and you are caught stealing controlled substances, you appeal, spend 8 months answering the phone, and then win your job back with the only restriction being you can't handle narcotics. :rolleyes:

When you've spent time in management and have a clue what you're talking about, come back and we'll have a rational discussion.

Halls, I thought of you when I made my earlier post. Interesting that the Congressman actually believes TSA is now going to fire some TSOs 'immediately'. When he makes that statement, he is either displaying woeful level of ignorance or he is lying through his teeth.

Aside from that, I would like to know how many of those who are actually suspended or termninated appeal and are reinstated - with back pay, and in the case of the HNL supervisor, given a promotion (he's been rehired twice).

I agree it can be a real time-consuming headache, and it is critical to cross all t's and dot all the i's, but particularly in the case of TSA, I have to ask: what, exactly, is their management doing otherwise?

Did you mean Minetta Walker? (http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/erie/TSA-employees-past-raises-questions)

Oops, yes, thanks Caradoc, that is who I meant.

I see the Smurfs on the EL either arriving at or leaving ORD all the time. They mostly get on/off at Rosemont or Cumberland, so I assume their doing the park+ride thing from there.

I saw one at a KFC near BWI once. As I was filling my drink I felt like looking over at her and just going "boom!" or some other snarky comment about the dangerous liquid I was about to consume.

I didn't, but looking back in hindsight, I should have. What could she have done? Not a damn thing.

I saw one at a KFC near BWI once. As I was filling my drink I felt like looking over at her and just going "boom!" or some other snarky comment about the dangerous liquid I was about to consume.

I didn't, but looking back in hindsight, I should have. What could she have done? Not a damn thing.

It would have been funny (not!) if she'd pulled a test strip out of her pocket and snapped on a pair of blue gloves...:p