United MileagePlus (Consolidated) - Article not flattering to United

Today's Houston Chronicle article about the recent United troubles. Bad news. Maybe Smisek should write a book "From First to Worst"

I miss Continental.

http://www.chron.com/business/article/United-fliers-voice-their-dismay-3777017.php

Nothing surprising here. Hopefully they'll fix it soon.

I miss United.

Nothing surprising here. Hopefully they'll fix it soon.

I miss United.

+1

Even though Tilton was bad $mi$ek is monumentally worse!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileageplus-consolidated/1375977-united-airlines-now-responsible-one-three-consumer-complaints.html

The best paragraph...this can't have any direct ties to C-level people right? The proverbial crap does not roll down hill at UA...this is only for every other company out there!

Although United's performance is lagging, U.S. carriers overall exhibited historically strong operational performance during the first half of this year. On-time performance for January through June was the best it has been since the government started tracking such data in 1988.

its actually starting to enter the regime of "this isn't funny anymore".

its actually starting to enter the regime of "this isn't funny anymore".

The saying, "The situation is critical, but not serious" comes to my mind.

Is this the Comics section of the FT paper?

Never heard of a bigger comedy of errors although Delta and Southwest keep trying.:p

Nothing surprising here. Hopefully they'll fix it soon.

I miss United.

this.

its actually starting to enter the regime of "this isn't funny anymore".It hasn't been fun since 12:01AM on March 3, 2012

I miss Continental.



I too miss Continental. And I sympathize with those that miss United. But I sure do wish that those who miss United would symathize more with us than knocking what we had as not as good as what they had.

I too miss Continental. And I sympathize with those that miss United. But I sure do wish that those who miss United would symathize more with us than knocking what we had as not as good as what they had.

I think those missing CAL are not missing the CAL our current CEO made, but the one that came before him. I think passengers are missing what both carriers were before the merger, understandable.

Nice to see an article focus on the problems that are real and not jumping into it must be a labor action.

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Today's Houston Chronicle article about the recent United troubles. Bad news. Maybe Smisek should write a book "From First to Worst"

I miss Continental.

http://www.chron.com/business/article/United-fliers-voice-their-dismay-3777017.php

Concur. Before the merger, CO still had the Go Forward plan posted on its website. Its gone now and surely the good culture that CO had is also gone from both airlines :(

I too miss Continental. And I sympathize with those that miss United. But I sure do wish that those who miss United would symathize more with us than knocking what we had as not as good as what they had.

The Continental reputation was a lot of hot air, carefully crafted in a PR vacuum. It seems even as this is finally being revealed, there are still some who are trying to figure out a way to save a legacy that never existed.

As we see almost the entire C suite coming from the CO side, and the combined entitled adopting CO's computer system and associated policies and procedures, your comments are puzzling to me. How is the current performance of the company not then directly a result of said changes?

The Continental reputation was a lot of hot air, carefully crafted in a PR vacuum. It seems even as this is finally being revealed, there are still some who are trying to figure out a way to save a legacy that never existed.

As we see almost the entire C suite coming from the CO side, and the combined entitled adopting CO's computer system and associated policies and procedures, your comments are puzzling to me. How is the current performance of the company not then directly a result of said changes?

Funny the comments by some posters here and I quote "UA was infintely better than CO" sounds more like hot air. I mean to state factually that CO was not good and then state that UA was the best thing since sliced bread is the issue I find in this forum.

Once again the PMUAers here are offered an olive branch (regarding sentiments to the current state of the carrier) only to douse the branch in jet fuel, set it on fire and say PMCO did it.

Funny the comments by some posters here and I quote "UA was infintely better than CO" sounds more like hot air. I mean to state factually that CO was not good and then state that UA was the best thing since sliced bread is the issue I find in this forum.

Once again the PMUAers here are offered an olive branch (regarding sentiments to the current state of the carrier) only to douse the branch in jet fuel, set it on fire and say PMCO did it.

That's because that is hot air. Both carriers had major issues. the difference is the "pmUA-era" you speak of had little issues calling out the company v. engaging in circular rah rah. That won't be carrying over to the new UA, unfortunately.

And once again, you refuse to respond directly to what I wrote:confused:

The Continental reputation was a lot of hot air, carefully crafted in a PR vacuum. It seems even as this is finally being revealed, there are still some who are trying to figure out a way to save a legacy that never existed.



The CO reputation was earned. More importantly, I enjoyed flying CO. Why is it so difficult for you to accept the possibility of concurrent truthfulness of two statements -- viz. "CO was better than UA is" and "UA was better than UA is"?

Also from the Cron. http://blog.chron.com/nickanderson/2012/08/united-we-fall/

http://blog.chron.com/nickanderson/files/2012/08/and081212blog.jpg

I flew Continental frequently in 2000 and 2001, much of it on ExpressJet in 2000.

I flew United off and on in 2001.

I flew mostly United and Continental from 2006 - 2010, around 20 segments a year.

I was a CO Plat in 2011. I was also a United 1K in 2011.

I liked both United and Continental, and was delighted when flying either carrier.

The new United is far, far inferior to either PMCO or PMUA. Each of them had things uniquely good and uniquely bad about them. The new United is worse off in almost every way.

This isn't a CO or a PMUA problem. It's a new United problem.

Funny the comments by some posters here and I quote "UA was infintely better than CO" sounds more like hot air. I mean to state factually that CO was not good and then state that UA was the best thing since sliced bread is the issue I find in this forum.

Once again the PMUAers here are offered an olive branch (regarding sentiments to the current state of the carrier) only to douse the branch in jet fuel, set it on fire and say PMCO did it.

That was just 1 person dousing the branch in Jet Fuel. I think most of us pmUA know the truth. That pmUA did treat us much better then whatever this airline is called now, and probably better then pmCO treated you - but anyone that thinks pmUA was the best thing since sliced bread if kidding themselves. UA was just the best if the worst. They all sucked and just keep getting worse. What most people that are pmUA flyers don't understand is that CO was a better airline then what we have today as well. CO did a great job on Hawaii flights & the C catering was much better then UA's. But you lost that as well. It's forgivable for a pmUA flyer to blame CO (even if that blame is somewhat misplaced) since this new mess is run by CO execs, has kept more from CO then UA (and the planes are blue & gold)

This isn't a CO or a PMUA problem. It's a new United problem.

^^ At this point, I don't care who is in the senior management group as long as they fix this mess.

^^ At this point, I don't care who is in the senior management group as long as they fix this mess.

true true.

i was a pmCO and happy, now i am finding a preponderance of old worn out planes and surly flight attendants with the unwelcome change to the new united.

Today's Houston Chronicle article about the recent United troubles. Bad news. Maybe Smisek should write a book "From First to Worst"

I miss Continental.

http://www.chron.com/business/article/United-fliers-voice-their-dismay-3777017.php

And I miss PMUA.

The CO reputation was earned. More importantly, I enjoyed flying CO. Why is it so difficult for you to accept the possibility of concurrent truthfulness of two statements -- viz. "CO was better than UA is" and "UA was better than UA is"?

throwing non sequiturs around instead of addressing the financial and operational degradation of the company doesn't help your cause.



The new United is far, far inferior to either PMCO or PMUA. Each of them had things uniquely good and uniquely bad about them. The new United is worse off in almost every way.

This isn't a CO or a PMUA problem. It's a new United problem.

Nonsense. The combined entity took all of the "vaunted" CO policies and procedures and their "unparalleled" computer system. Those two represent the heart of the operation, and we are seeing the clear and undisputable end result of such changes.

I realize the new (old) CO party line is to blame the employees and blame the customer and never management, but in light of the emerging financial and operational shortfalls, that's going to become a tough, if not completely untenable, sell. Good luck.

i was a pmCO and happy, now i am finding a preponderance of old worn out planes and surly flight attendants with the unwelcome change to the new united.

Yesterday's warn out 757 was complements of sCO :mad:

Short piece with little new for those of us familiar with the situation. But still, sums up some issues pretty well.

What most people that are pmUA flyers don't understand is that CO was a better airline then what we have today as well.
CO may have been a better airline 10 years ago. I left 6 years ago now because of all the nonsense going on there

United wasn't perfect, but they knew that. CO thought they were perfect, and they acted like it.

That was just 1 person dousing the branch in Jet Fuel. I think most of us pmUA know the truth. That pmUA did treat us much better then whatever this airline is called now, and probably better then pmCO treated you - but anyone that thinks pmUA was the best thing since sliced bread if kidding themselves. UA was just the best if the worst. They all sucked and just keep getting worse. What most people that are pmUA flyers don't understand is that CO was a better airline then what we have today as well. CO did a great job on Hawaii flights & the C catering was much better then UA's. But you lost that as well. It's forgivable for a pmUA flyer to blame CO (even if that blame is somewhat misplaced) since this new mess is run by CO execs, has kept more from CO then UA (and the planes are blue & gold)

Hey, somebody making sense on a post-merger UA thread on FT. Bizzare. Where's the hyperbole? Where's the vituperitiveness?

Good job, CTJMR.

UA Sucks, they killed cO the same wy frank lorenzo this to eastern.

I was a 1K on UA for 10 years flying 95% business upgraded to first USA-Asia. They were decent before 9/11, I even remember having Dom in FC from NRT-SFO. From what I hear they were even better in the 90's before I started flying them. I think UA and many of the other legacies took the opportunity to downgrade everything after 9/11 when everyone was sympathetic to their plight. Things continued to get worse service wise year on year from 2002-2010 even as the seats got better towards the end (although I loved the recliners in C, especially row 26 and row 15 on the 747). The SWU's got harder to use and the W class fares rose quite a bit in the last few years. There was no way UA was getting better. I'm sure those legacy CO flyers also feel the same way about CO, that it was steadily getting worse.

I haven't stepped on a UA flight after they made the change from 100% to 50% mileage earning for Prem Exec. That was my line in the sand. What seems to be happening is that the merger has caused the decline in service standards of UA to happen faster than the decline was happening on either airline when they were 2 separate carriers. This is sad but entirely expected as they have more power over the consumer as a result of reduced choices. As an aside this is why I could never understand the people who were cheering this merger on FT, strange to cheer for reduced competition and increased pricing power in my mind :rolleyes:

I think we all need to realize that neither airline was fantastic before and although people naturally look back with fondness on "their" airline, both had positives and negatives. The fact is the new UA is worse for both the PMCO and PMUA flyers. Blaming the other side for making this the case is illogical and becoming very tiring to read about on a daily basis. If you are that fed up, do what I did and leave. Talking gets you nowhere.

UA Sucks, they killed cO the same wy frank lorenzo this to eastern.

You're of course welcome to think that way, but considering the vast majority of post merger policies are CO's, along with most of the management staff being CO's, a lot of us think CO killed UA.


The UA I knew and loved and worked for ceased to exist on March 3rd. In my opinion, the new UA is UA in name only. And that would've been okay if things went smoothly. But of course they haven't.

You're of course welcome to think that way, but considering the vast majority of post merger policies are CO's, along with most of the management staff being CO's, a lot of us think CO killed UA.


The UA I knew and loved and worked for ceased to exist on March 3rd. In my opinion, the new UA is UA in name only. And that would've been okay if things went smoothly. But of course they haven't.

You beat me to the response......but here is my additional 2 cents anyway :D.

For me pmUA was not perfect by any means (semi-mostly good).......yet I knew exactly where I stood with pmUA: The more you fly us, the more we are going to show you we definitely want your business. It made my travel choice easy -- fly UA + achieve X miles = my life spent 'above ground' (which is far more often than 99% of the public) would be as comfortable as reasonably possible. IMHO anyone near IAD, ORD, SFO, DEN or near the big number of small airports with direct feeders into one of those airports, pmUA was almost a no brainer choice for that high volume domestic traveler (which I am). And in turn pmUA had guaranteed business (I'd take connecting flights with UA at higher fares over lower, directs with non UA. I know that was true for a lot of us).

For today's UA, which is much more pmCO then pmUA (that is quantifiable), their strategy does not (as much) emphasize this business approach. How much less is arguable -- IMO it is quite a bit less than pre-merger. So be it! The new UA (like pmUA) is a business. If they see that as their best business decision, hey, Smi/J and staff have to do what they think is best. Maybe pmUA's approach was unsustainable. Regardless, the new approach is either something Smi/J decided post merger or was something he brought with him from CO. And in my experience (albeit very limited), CO frequently flyers often said CO was a different airline (different = better airline for high volume travelers) before Smi/J came aboard.

Final note, I hope the new UA can regain some of the pmUA. I knew some changes would be unwelcome, it had to be with 2 large airlines merging. If they get it together to a sufficient degree, I am happy to slide back into the full time UA routine (versus the part time UA routine I am going with now).

"...you get the best of both worlds..."
-Hannah Montana

"You get the worst of both airlines...."
-post merger customers

Enough from the pmUA fanboys. Before this merger, I was a CO flier, and I had almost nothing but good experiences with my airline. I enjoyed flying them. Since the merger I can't stand the new UA and I refuse to fly them long haul anymore. So don't tell me the new UA is CO.

Enough from the pmUA fanboys. Before this merger, I was a CO flier, and I had almost nothing but good experiences with my airline. I enjoyed flying them. Since the merger I can't stand the new UA and I refuse to fly them long haul anymore. So don't tell me the new UA is CO.

Can I assume you're remembering the Bethune days, and not the era of Smisek where the airline started to go downhill?

This isn't a CO or a PMUA problem. It's a new United problem.

Agreed. Blaming one "pm" side or the other is pointless now. The current management team is responsible for fixing the mess, regardless of where they came from.

Can I assume you're remembering the Bethune days, and not the era of Smisek where the airline started to go downhill?

Kellner was the CEO for the 5 years before Smisek.

Enough from the pmUA fanboys. Before this merger, I was a CO flier, and I had almost nothing but good experiences with my airline. I enjoyed flying them. Since the merger I can't stand the new UA and I refuse to fly them long haul anymore. So don't tell me the new UA is CO.

Enough from the CO fanboys. This isn't UA and yet it's run by CO management. How do you explain that?

Kellner was the CEO for the 5 years before Smisek.

I know - don't seem to be a lot of fans of him either. Just always curious about CO love as it seems like the golden days were long ago.

I know - don't seem to be a lot of fans of him either. Just always curious about CO love as it seems like the golden days were long ago.

I flew both airlines quite a bit over the past few years and didn't think one was significantly better than the other (except for the pre-flight cocktail; CO had it all over UA there).

I'm surprised that FTers are ignoring the obvious here. Both CO and UA are killing each other! Although the effect appears to be 'the worst of both worlds' the cause is an organizational culture clash whereby both groups would rather let the ship sink than try to bail each other out.

Smisek's ego is just a magnified version of the attitudes embedded in most (>75%) of the workforce, namely 'We know best. If those other jerks would just learn how to do it our way, then everything would be ok.'

If this adversarial culture doesn't change, no amount of computer programming patches or extended aircraft leases are going to save the day. At the current rate, I'd give this airline 18 months before they're back in bankruptcy. And then all bets on the future of this carrier would be off. It could be sold off piecemeal, given over to some bottom feeder who would make Smisek & co. look like Mother Teresa's order, or resurrected as the kind of global success story that the current business plan calls for. These futures are not mutually exclusive!

Today's Houston Chronicle article about the recent United troubles. Bad news. Maybe Smisek should write a book "From First to Worst"

I miss Continental.

http://www.chron.com/business/article/United-fliers-voice-their-dismay-3777017.php

I don't miss United or Continental, I miss Gordon Bethune.

You're of course welcome to think that way, but considering the vast majority of post merger policies are CO's, along with most of the management staff being CO's, a lot of us think CO killed UA.

UA's board aggressively persued CO, as CO was also in discussions with AA and US. It's a case of getting what you ask for.

CO didn't kill UA; UA comitted suicide.

It's all cause and effect. In history, you see even as far back as the kings and queens of England, what they did and how they ruled effected their country and people.

Right now it's King Smisek and he is ruling terribly. He isn't charismatic, he talks out of one side of his mouth and does the other, he isn't honest, and his vision is short-term thinking. What happens when the "King" thinks this way? Chaos and unhappiness. In 1620, unhappy people crossed an ocean and settled - nothing has changed, in 2012, unhappy customers have left and gone to where they can be appreciated. It's cause and effect.

Smisek's effects are now showing, and I have a feeling his "ripple effects" are going to bite him in the rear end. The free market (customers) will only take so much - as one said, at first it was funny, now, not so much.

I don't know how they can survive, the company needs a hero to come in and save the day. Maybe, already, it's too late.

United was the best of the worst, and those who flew CO loved their airline...it's Smisek and his team. It's an entirely different airline than pmUA or pmCO -