Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - UFO FAs vote for strike action [merged discussion thread]]

Oh well, let the season of trouble begin!

http://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-dienstleister/tarifstreit-flugbegleiter-stimmen-fuer-streiks-bei-lufthansa/6975570.html

UFO doesn't represent the majority of FAs within LH, so it may or may not develop into a show stopper... time will tell.

I don't know about the specifics of their discussion, but I have the feeling this is the same issue every 2 years (and in between its either ground staff or the Pilots).

I believe compared to any other airline in Europe (except SAS maybe), let alone the US, LH FAs are well-paid and have a huge list of company benefits. They sleep in the nicest hotels, they have long layovers on long-hauls, they have decent hours and they can take their families on a vacation in business class every now and then. So I really don't see what they are complaining about.

I don't know about the specifics of their discussion, but I have the feeling this is the same issue every 2 years (and in between its either ground staff or the Pilots)

Don't forget the ATC :p

As far as LH mainline FAs are concerned their bennies are being cut slice by slice the past decade and each time LHs argument has been: we're going thru tough times, help out now and we'll help you with profit sharing or some other intangible goodie later.

This time its clear LH wants the mainline crews with their bennies to stick to longhaul only and leave the mid/shorthaul to low(er) wage crews that get paid like LH cityline (two year limited contract, higher hours, lower wages etc). Mainline crews currently get their 70-90h/month in by flying two longhaul rotations and one week of regional flying (regional counts 1.1 to 1.3 times the hours depending on rank). This is definitely too little....

As far as LH mainline FAs are concerned their bennies are being cut slice by slice the past decade...
you sure this is about FAs and not about LH frequent flyers?

Whatever, pls. just don't do it on the traveller's back - AGAIN...

What are their other options when they can't reach an agreement?

Whatever, pls. just don't do it on the traveller's back - AGAIN...

Then let's hope that LH's management is not too stone-headed. AGAIN...

HTB.

It seems LH doesn't think the UFO vote will lead to strikes:

Stimmung abgefragt
UFO-Urabstimmung / LH an Lösung interessiert
In einer Urabstimmung haben
sich die LH-Flugbegleiter für
einen Streik ausgesprochen.
Die Zustimmung zu möglichen
Arbeitskampfmaßnahmen habe
bei 97,5 Prozent gelegen,
teilte die Unabhängige Flugbegleiter-
Organisation (UFO) am
8. August mit. Lufthansa befindet
sich seit Monaten mit der
UFO in Tarifverhandlungen.
Die Verhandlungen sind weder
abgebrochen noch gescheitert.
LH ist nach wie vor daran interessiert,
zusammen mit der
UFO nach Lösungen in dem
Konflikt zu suchen. Die Urabstimmung
wertet LH nicht als
konkrete Vorbereitung für einen
anstehenden Arbeitskampf,
sondern als Abfrage eines
Stimmungsbildes.

I just read that LH has ignored the deadline on friday and that the UFO-members will vote next week on a possible strike....

Does this also include Austrian/Tyrolean crews? Flying several flights on Tyrolean, Croatian, and Swiss in the coming weeks.

Thanks!

It seems to be limited to LH at this time: http://atwonline.com/operations-maintenance/news/lufthansa-flight-attendants-delay-strike-decision-until-next-week-0817

It's all the over-entitled aliens placing absurd service demands on the FAs during interstellar travel.

Oh THAT UFO...carry on then. ;)

UFO published extract of the LH proposal last week:

http://www.ufo-online.com/flugbegleiter/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=376:Die%20Katze%20ist%20aus%20dem%20Sack:%20LH% 20legt%20ihr%20detailliertes

It looks like LH definitely wants to run the shorthaul with the direct4U concept like Cityline: short term contracts with long hours and low wages. The Mainline salaries are supposed to be capped and minimum hours raised to 72, with an expectation to do 80-90h/month on average, with short-/midhaul not counting extra (with a factor of 1.1-.3x) anymore. Vacation is also proposed to be cut from 42(!) to 40.

So in essence LH is going after the remaining niceties in the LH FA world. UFO certainly will go a for a strike action as this is one of the cornerstones of their support. They are also picking their topics and will focus on the elements that can be striked on, so that no court can deny the right to strike.

This is going to be a nasty autumn...

This is going to be a nasty autumn...

Oh dear...

It seems LH offered to negotiate about the big picture last night while UFO was preparing to just offer a deal of 5% wage raise and strike immediately afterwards.

http://www.ufo-online.com/flugbegleiter/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=380:Tarifverhandlungen%20bei%20Lufthansa&catid=34:Lufthansa&Itemid=53

It seems they will negotiate all weekend. LH is trying to be smart and make this about the big picture because they know UFO can't strike about the overall situation, but just the wage negotiations.

On Tuesday Weber was playing the bad cop, yesterday the HR head intervened and played the good cop:)

http://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-dienstleister/neuer-loesungsversuch-vorerst-kein-streik-bei-der-lufthansa/7043890.html

It seems LH offered to negotiate about the big picture last night while UFO was preparing to just offer a deal of 5% wage raise and strike immediately afterwards.

http://www.ufo-online.com/flugbegleiter/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=380:Tarifverhandlungen%20bei%20Lufthansa&catid=34:Lufthansa&Itemid=53

It seems they will negotiate all weekend. LH is trying to be smart and make this about the big picture because they know UFO can't strike about the overall situation, but just the wage negotiations.

On Tuesday Weber was playing the bad cop, yesterday the HR head intervened and played the good cop:)

http://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-dienstleister/neuer-loesungsversuch-vorerst-kein-streik-bei-der-lufthansa/7043890.html

This could be nasty...Is LH standard procedure rebooking to an alternative carrier, refund or just force majeure (no money back)?

Is this the applicable T&C clause?
9.2.1.
"We will take all necessary measures to avoid delay in carrying you. In the exercise of these measures and in order to prevent a flight cancellation, in exceptional circumstances beyond our control we may arrange for a flight to be operated on our behalf by an alternative carrier and/or aircraft."

Yes, during previous strikes you were accommodated on other carriers or offered a refund. More on how this was handled during the pilots strike: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles-more-lufthansa-austrian-swiss-other-partners/1053756-lh-vc-pilot-strike-info-thread.html

Yes, during previous strikes you were accommodated on other carriers or offered a refund. More on how this was handled during the pilots strike: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles-more-lufthansa-austrian-swiss-other-partners/1053756-lh-vc-pilot-strike-info-thread.html

Thanks!

Not sure this is the right place to post.

Flying LAX to Munich on United on Wed. Returning 12 days later - Budapest to LAX on Lufthansa. Bought all the tickets from United - Business Class both directions.
I have confirmation numbers from both UA and LH for the return.

If Lufthansa votes to strike on Tuesday, and is still on strike when I have to return, What should I do, who should I call, and when?

Thanks, cb

Not sure this is the right place to post.

Flying LAX to Munich on United on Wed. Returning 12 days later - Budapest to LAX on Lufthansa. Bought all the tickets from United - Business Class both directions.
I have confirmation numbers from both UA and LH for the return.

If Lufthansa votes to strike on Tuesday, and is still on strike when I have to return, What should I do, who should I call, and when?

Thanks, cb
My vote would be to call UA but they probably won't rebook you until LH cancels your flight or all LH operated flights for the day you are scheduled to travel. However, check whether your ticket can be changed without a fee--i.e., if it's a less restricted business class fare code. In that case, you could try to proactively change the flights to UA rather than LH while there's still space available. Can you take a train from Budapest to someplace where you can catch a UA (or other *A) carrier? If the ticket is fully refundable business class, you could just cancel it now, before the first flight, and purchase a new ticket that avoids LH.

Let's just hope this doesn't come to fruition that way no one has any troubles and my DL flights aren't crowded.

My vote would be to call UA but they probably won't rebook you until LH cancels your flight or all LH operated flights for the day you are scheduled to travel. However, check whether your ticket can be changed without a fee--i.e., if it's a less restricted business class fare code. In that case, you could try to proactively change the flights to UA rather than LH while there's still space available. Can you take a train from Budapest to someplace where you can catch a UA (or other *A) carrier? If the ticket is fully refundable business class, you could just cancel it now, before the first flight, and purchase a new ticket that avoids LH.

P.S.

Paging MSPeconomist to the Delta Forum for an urgent request.

Thank you.

Please continue this discussion in the Lufthansa Miles & More forum. Thanks for your understanding.

Jouy31
TravelBuzz co-moderator

You have to call the ticket issuing airline. In your case United. As soon LH knows about the strike LH will put an emergency flight plan in action showing which flights will be canceled. Normally LH has enough non union staff to keep long-haul operations in place. I would assume that mainly intra German flights and European routes will be canceled.

I alos doubt we will see a two week long strike. So in my opinion you should be fine. But to be safe check the Lufthansa website regularly.

UFO published extract of the LH proposal last week:

http://www.ufo-online.com/flugbegleiter/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=376:Die%20Katze%20ist%20aus%20dem%20Sack:%20LH% 20legt%20ihr%20detailliertes

Vacation is also proposed to be cut from 42(!) to 40.

..

For real? 42 days vacation a year? Imagine that! 17 -22 days more vacation than the average worker. Unless of course their layovers count as vacation?

For real? 42 days vacation a year? Imagine that! 17 -22 days more vacation than the average worker. Unless of course their layovers count as vacation?

42 days translate to 6 weeks of vacation-time since every DAY is counted including saturday and sunday. And six weeks holiday-allowance is the amount that is very (if not most) common in Germany - and there is a legal minimum of 24 days holliday-allowance (based on a five-day workweek)...

So after all, if Lufthansa would get this through, all flight-crew would have less vacation-time than most other employees in Germany...just to put this into perspective.

Greetings - Dirk

"This week, Lufthansa's supervisory board chairman Juergen Weber urged the company not to give away too much ground in union negotiations. "It's better to let it come to a big bang," or a strike, rather than permit the company to become uncompetitive, weekly newspaper Die Zeit quoted Mr. Weber as saying."

So better to have a strike than to be available to Nonstopyou.

Looks like negotiations broke down. UFO to announce next steps at 9:00 GST

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/drohender-streik-bei-lufthansa-wegen-flugbegleitern-a-852412.html

I like LH. Comfortable product, low prices, attractive Frequent Flyer Program and reliable operations...

I hope they will make announcements soon. I have quite a few trips to come and can still decide whether to fly LH or a mix of LX and BA. Had hopefully they will settle this dispute asap. What a pain…

I have a Z fare VCE-FRA-ORD next week. If a strike happens will I have some ability to suggest an alternative routing on another *A carrier of my choice, or must my choice be to accept what they offer or a refund? My concern is I must make the trip, but for what I paid I certainly wouldn't be happy if my only options were UA or US.

I assume they will try and shift most of the cancellations to SH. Better switch my TXL-DUS flights to AB.. :rolleyes:

Looks like no full scale walk out is imminent but the union announced that it would stage short term work stoppages on little or now notice. Reminds me of the Ground Worker strikes earlier this year.

Still nothing on the LH website...

Still nothing on the LH website...

on LH facebook profile:

Negotiations with UFO have broken down

We confirm that negotiations with UFO have broken down today. Although Lufthansa and UFO exchanged proposals for resolving the collective bargaining dispute until the end, the differing positions on core issues could not be reconciled.
At this time we do not yet have any information regarding the impact this will have on flights. We will keep you updated here on facebook as well as at www.lufthansa.com.
Lufthansa continues to focus on a comprehensive and forward-looking solution with UFO.

mfk

It looks like LH was unwilling to make concessions on splitting of the regional A32S crew into a direct4U type operation, which UFO wants to retain in order to keep the life of LH classic/mainline crew comfortable.

http://www.ufo-online.com/flugbegleiter/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=382:Lufthansa%20Tarifkonflikt:%20Die%20Verhandl ungen%20sind%20gescheitert&catid=34:Lufthansa&Itemid=53

If you read the above I doubt we will see strike action this week. Probably because they failed to keep the wage negotiations separate from the discussions on the future of LH mainline/direct4U staffing. On the wage discussions they can strike, mentioning the other topics as a reason may convince a court to declare the strike illegal.

We fly out tomorrow with LH (layover in FRA and off to PHL) and sure hope there are no issues or delays! Wouldn't be a good start to our holiday!

Does UFO represent all Lufthansa cabin crew?

About two thirds, no exact figure is known, they keep it under wraps.

About two thirds, no exact figure is known, they keep it under wraps.
So, then what is the difference between UFO and non-UFO union members?

UFO is a union, FAs are either members or not. AFAIK no other union represents the cabin, ver.di is the union that leads the rest of the LH employees, VC represents pilots. During strike action union members strike and get paid by the union. In case of legal action against employee for refusing to work, the union helps out. You need to pay >0.5% of you gross income to be a member of the union.

Ok, thanks.

If UFO is the only FA union at LH, then the strike will affect all flights, not just shorthaul ones.

Good to know :)

It will affect LH mainline, so LH will cancel feeder flights and use the crews that report to work to operate the longhaul. The regional LH carriers (CL/IQ/EN/EW/etc) should operate normally.

Question is, will this be deemed "extraordinary circumstance" under EU 261?

Question is, will this be deemed "extraordinary circumstance" under EU 261?

A German court seems to think so and may give LH the out.

I have a Z fare VCE-FRA-ORD next week. If a strike happens will I have some ability to suggest an alternative routing on another *A carrier of my choice, or must my choice be to accept what they offer or a refund? My concern is I must make the trip, but for what I paid I certainly wouldn't be happy if my only options were UA or US.

You certainly almost will not have the option to choose carriers, etc. The airline can accommodate you anyway they see necessary even it it involves different carriers, different class of travel, or even train and bus travel. They main objective is to get you to your final destination as quickly as possible when something like this happens.

Hypothetical question... we're booked Vancouver - Frankfurt - Paris on Friday but my actual final destination is Barcelona. We added on an EasyJet flight much later that day as we had a change of plans after booking our initial flights. I'm less concerned about my Vancouver - Frankfurt flight but do have concerns about my Frankfurt to Paris flights.

IF they're going to send me on a different carrier (or train) that would miss my EasyJet flight, is there any hope that they would route me to Barcelona instead of Paris? I have no expectation of this, but I'm curious.

Thanks

Hypothetical question... we're booked Vancouver - Frankfurt - Paris on Friday but my actual final destination is Barcelona. We added on an EasyJet flight much later that day as we had a change of plans after booking our initial flights. I'm less concerned about my Vancouver - Frankfurt flight but do have concerns about my Frankfurt to Paris flights.

IF they're going to send me on a different carrier (or train) that would miss my EasyJet flight, is there any hope that they would route me to Barcelona instead of Paris? I have no expectation of this, but I'm curious.

Thanks
That is possible. When something like this strikes (pun intended) an airline, all bets are off. Once had an offer to go FRA-VIE (as my final destination was BTS) instead of a cancelled FRA-PRG, alas had to refuse as I had my car at the airport in PRG. Just do not bet anything important on it, YMMV.

That is possible. When something like this strikes (pun intended) an airline, all bets are off. Once had an offer to go FRA-VIE (as my final destination was BTS) instead of a cancelled FRA-PRG, alas had to refuse as I had my car at the airport in PRG. Just do not bet anything important on it, YMMV.

Good to know, thank you. I certainly wouldn't bet on it just trying to look at alternatives.

I will fly on LH next Sat from LHR.
If strike happens, how early we will know it in advance?
Strike can happen all of a sudden? or in a few hours, in a few days etc?

What happened in the past?

As far as I read it the cabin crew union has not been on strike in the recent past, so no precedent on this. It has been published by UFO that they will stage short-time walkouts first with little to no advance notice, so I guess preparing for this strike will be substantially problematic for the travelling public...

Greetings - Dirk

UFO just announced that no strikes will take place wednesday, but to expect them on Thursday. It would be a nice change of pace if they can settle this thing today!

Question is, will this be deemed "extraordinary circumstance" under EU 261?

Strikes require the airline to care for you (ie rebook you, put you up in a hotel, feed you etc) but no compensation due to the delay is due.

Ok, if strikes are announced for Thursday, what potential spill over is there for Friday?

I have a bit of a complicated routing on 2 different PNRs w/in *alliance - INN-FRA-ATH LH connecting to ATH-IST-PEK with TK. If there is a strike on Friday - and I am stuck in FRA - is it reasonable to assume that LH will only try to get me to ATH and NOT to IST to make my flight out to PEK? Or would they potentially put me on a FRA-IST flight with TK?

Suffice it to say I need to be in PEK and I am worried that I have no recourse to the outward TK flight if I miss it due to a strike by LH. Any Insight would be appreciated

UFO just announced that no strikes will take place wednesday, but to expect them on Thursday. It would be a nice change of pace if they can settle this thing today!

phiewww... flying LH just today and then in almost 3 weeks time. Good news.

It might take more than 3 weeks...... :td:

I'm flying JNB-FRA-BOS tomorrow. Is the strike likely to affect the first leg out of JNB? Are the staff currently abroad also striking?

If they do change my routing with SA perhaps, might they put me on a JNB-JFK or JNB-IAD flight? If that is the case would it be a high fare class (150% EQM on UA MP)?

Please excuse the multiple questions.

Thanks,

The answer is... Nobody knows yet.
Although their first actions won't be strikes that last for days...

I'm flying JNB-FRA-BOS tomorrow. Is the strike likely to affect the first leg out of JNB? Are the staff currently abroad also striking?

If they do change my routing with SA perhaps, might they put me on a JNB-JFK or JNB-IAD flight? If that is the case would it be a high fare class (150% EQM on UA MP)?

Please excuse the multiple questions.

Thanks,

Usually what LH tries to do is to keep long haul operations going by taking staff from SH aircraft. Its much cheaper (sometimes even to their benefit) to not operate SH, compared to long haul flights. So cancelling long haul flights usually is usally their last resort measure. Given it is the first day of strike, I assume you will be fine with your two LH legs. But as always in live, there's no guarantee ;)

In my case it´s more complicated because tomorrow I have a MAD-FRA-SIN (in "C") and if some SH flights are cancelled (like MAD-FRA), I´ll have a problem...

So far the LH website remains remarkably empty of details other than wednesday no strikes were planned. I keep checking but... I just need to make it to Athens and Aegean runs that route from FRA....

Just hear on the news that UFO wants to announce strikes 7 to 6 hours in advanced. I think this is just plane wrong. Any idea if a rebooking on Germanwings is possible if they offer the same route?

Sorry UFO guys. I don't separate between pilots, technicians, cabin crew or ground personal. You all are the face and representatives of Lufthansa to the client and with this strike you will make Lufthansa look really bad including yourself.

here is the "offer" LH submitted:

http://www.ufo-online.com/flugbegleiter/angebotLH220812.html

In my case it´s more complicated because tomorrow I have a MAD-FRA-SIN (in "C") and if some SH flights are cancelled (like MAD-FRA), I´ll have a problem...

You could be protected on SQ connecting in BCN/LHR.

Crossing my fingers for LHR FRA/FRA LHR this Friday/Sunday... :(

I'm flying JNB-FRA-BOS tomorrow. Is the strike likely to affect the first leg out of JNB? Are the staff currently abroad also striking?

If they do change my routing with SA perhaps, might they put me on a JNB-JFK or JNB-IAD flight? If that is the case would it be a high fare class (150% EQM on UA MP)?

Please excuse the multiple questions.

Thanks,

LH's first priority will be to make sure long haul flights operate as close to normal as possible so your odds increase that things will go well fromm JNB to FRA and on to BOS. Odds improve, but do not assure anything.

So far the LH website remains remarkably empty of details other than wednesday no strikes were planned. I keep checking but... I just need to make it to Athens and Aegean runs that route from FRA....

there are no details because LH won't know much until UFO announces something a few hours before the action.

I will be on a paid LH F ticket flying SFO-FRA-CDG (FRA-CDG in J) next month.

Since I paid $10K+ for my ticket, I don't want to fly UA F on my transatlantic flights!!

Will LH be more likely to reroute me SFO-ZRH-CDG (or perhaps SFO-JFK-ZRH-CDG or SFO-ORD-ZRH-CDG) on LX instead?

I will be sure to tell them "I don't want to fly UA on transatlantic flights" if my SFO-FRA flight gets cancelled.

Assuming the SFO-FRA doesn't get cancelled and I make it to FRA and my FRA-CDG LH flight gets cancelled instead, will they insist I fly FRA-ZRH-CDG on LX (since it is also star *), put me on a train to Paris or reroute me on Air France?

I will be on a paid LH F ticket flying SFO-FRA-CDG (FRA-CDG in J) next month.

Since I paid $10K+ for my ticket, I don't want to fly UA F on my transatlantic flights!!

Will LH be more likely to reroute me SFO-ZRH-CDG (or perhaps SFO-JFK-ZRH-CDG or SFO-ORD-ZRH-CDG) on LX instead?

I will be sure to tell them "I don't want to fly UA on transatlantic flights" if my SFO-FRA flight gets cancelled.

Assuming the SFO-FRA doesn't get cancelled and I make it to FRA and my FRA-CDG LH flight gets cancelled instead, will they insist I fly FRA-ZRH-CDG on LX (since it is also star *), put me on a train to Paris or reroute me on Air France?

These are all "Million Dollar Questions" that we won't have good answers for! there's always the train from FRA to CDG ;)

It's all the over-entitled aliens placing absurd service demands on the FAs during interstellar travel.

Oh THAT UFO...carry on then. ;)

I am ashamed to say the same thought occurred to me too!

LX says that it can step in to help LH:

http://www.20min.ch/finance/dossier/luftverkehr/story/21775652

UFO just stated that there will be no strike actions on Thursday but to expect them on friday with 6 hours notice.

interesting threat from Nicoley Baublies:

"Now we just want to announce that there will be one other surprise, because the strike will take place at the place where the responsibility for the current Lufthansa disaster began." (via google translate)

Cologne maybe?

Reuters confirmed the release of information regarding the strike

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/08/30/uk-lufthansa-strike-idUKBRE87T04E20120830

Great and i fly on friday. 6 hours notice thats akin to terrorism. And the supposed costs of 25 million per day for lufthansa - wouldnt that equal the 1.5 (3 % in real terms) that is missing in the negotiations?

I already executed a plan B for this weekend travel.....

I still keep my reservation(bought thru Expedia USA) on LH for just in case.

If I do "no show", any penalty for me(other than whole ticket $ on LH)?

I have no status/no miles/no account on LH.

I already executed a plan B for this weekend travel.....

I still keep my reservation(bought thru Expedia USA) on LH for just in case.

If I do "no show", any penalty for me(other than whole ticket $ on LH)?

I have no status/no miles/no account on LH.

If they don't cancel - you will not get anything - I guess its like missing a flight. If you have travel insurance, you might want to check with them and see what they advise.

I ironically was able to check in using OLCI just now for the INN-FRA-ATH leg. I will certainly go to FRA and if it gets cancelled can utilise Travel Insurance and Company CC to get me to where I need to go, BUT the next question is luggage. Had planned to check it through to FD but if they cannot confirm the flight I might need to go through the hassle of picking up my bag in FRA and recheck the luggage :(

I will tomorrow from BLL to FRA, with Lufthansa Cityline. Is it possible Cityline will be included in the strike aswell ?

The next leg of our journey tomorrow is from FRA to SFO. I thought it was with Lufthansa, but on their website it says in the flight info, that it is operated by UA. So maybe that wont be affected?

So worried that our dream holiday is going down the drain :(

I am on LH 400 (FRA JFK) tomorrow at 10:20am. N24 TV just ran headlines that LH will begin strike tomorrow but nothing more. I am going to drive to FRA today and check the situation and hopefully post some more information as it becomes available. I suspect that strike will first affect the short haul and the feeder flights. Inventory looks tight on all * carriers. Will see.

Cheers,

Delta141

Cityline is not affected, United will also run normally.

Thinking about the whole situation, I have to ask if UFO actually realise that they are potentially harming their members. If they use these guerrilla tactics to force their issues through, ie 6 hour notice of strike action, aren't the cabin attendants intentionally harming their employer? And isn't that reasonable cause for dismissal?

In a country where unemployment is high enough that its reasonable to assume that employees can be replaced, are they in the right to strike because they had a pay freeze for 3 years? I mean the world did and still is going through a financial crisis. Other industries have had 2 or 3 year pay freezes in place.

UFO claims that it is only possible for a new employee to achieve the top level pay structure with 46 years of service - while that may be true on paper it is unrealistic IMO to strike for something that is just a "kollektiv Vertrag". A lot of people will never see the top pay structure, because they start a different job, stop working because of Family etc. If the employee is really good, and excels in his job, his/her supervisor/Director can promote them independently of the "kollektiv Vertrag".

There is the talk of reducing holidays from 45 to 42 days. and Yes their holidays are based on a 7 day week and not a 5 day week like the majority. But the 5 day week people only get 25 days and using August and September as an example, UFO clients have 1 weeks holiday more than we do at 25 days on a 5 day week. So again I see no reason for a legitimate complaint there either.

Benefits - lets see, 4 and 5 star hotels, long layovers and lets not forget the deeply discounted flights in Y and C (IIRC its 10% of the actual cost.) LH wanted 90 hours from them, which was claimed as unreasonable. In long Haul - that equates to about 1.5 flights a week, when factoring in the lead time for a flight. I believe they are generally on duty 4 hours prior to departure. given an average 8 hour long haul flight they have to complete 7.5 legs a month to meet the minimum requirement on long haul. that's 4 round trip flights a month - I would say we know a lot of Flyer Talk members that do that and then still work an entire week!!!!

Am I biased because I have to fly tomorrow and want to get were I am going without all this hassle - yes, but If I was LH I would look at blocking the strike based on intentionally harming the company as 6 hours is not fair notice, or give the UFO what they want and then fire them afterwards. Sounds draconian but in the present climate I would be and am thankful that I have a job, rather than demanding more in times where companies are struggling.

Personally I would put an advertisement in every German paper announcing a hiring spree for FA's etc.

I am not saying the FA's do not have it hard. They certainly do when considering some of the things we have all seen over the years. But given the sum total of their benefits and salaries, they don't have it bad either.

I am going to drive to FRA today and check the situation

What do you think to accomplish by going to FRA? There won't be any strikes today..... and your long-haul flight tomorrow will probably be fine.

Am I biased because I have to fly tomorrow and want to get were I am going without all this hassle - yes

Your bias really shows.... fire all strikers, really? And the "thankful to have a job" argument, again really?

You seem to be forgetting that this is about the only way employees can put some pressure on a company. It's not like they haven't been negotiating for just a short while......

Striking should be a last resort, especially when it impacts your customers. But sometimes it's just about the only thing that is left in a labor negotiation. And I'm rather expecting the first actions to be quite small. So far it's all about increasing the pressure.

And I think there are quite a few M&M HON's that would like to go on strike with LH if they could, if I look at some of the threads. :cool:

UFO is hesitant because they need to make sure that:

a. they have enough people at a particular base to make a serious dent into the operation on the strike day
b. they don't p!ss off the german public
c. LH cannot block them in courts

LH has a made a smart move offering 3.5% wage hike where they wanted 5%. One message that definitely reached the German public earlier this year is that LH is not doing well and looking to restructure and fix their situation. If the public sees FAs striking during their vacation travel and not being satisfied with 3.5% then UFO has a problem :p

Striking is always a fine line between applying pressure and not alienating your customers or even the public opinion. And although I have never been on strike in my life I recognize it's sometimes all that is left and can be effective.

But they should be (very) hesitant in using it....

UFO says on their website

..., da der Streik an dem Ort stattfinden wird, wo auch die Verantwortung für das derzeitige Lufthansa-Desaster begann.

... Since the strike will take place at the location, where also the responsibility for the current Lufthansa-Desaster began.

http://www.ufo-online.com/flugbegleiter/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=385:Am%20Freitag%20geht%27s%20los&catid=34:Lufthansa&Itemid=53

anyone knows where that location might be?

flying tomorrow (31st aug) ZRH - FRA - BOS :-/

Hi,

I have connection tomorrow morning via FRA any info what will be with the strike.

A UFO statement might offer clues to where may be hit. “Now we want to announce that some might be surprised that the strike will take place in the spot where the responsibility for the current Lufthansa disaster began,” it said.

That could be interpreted to suggest the targets could be Berlin, where Lufthansa first used temporary staff, Frankfurt which is Lufthansa’s main hub, or Cologne where the firm is based.

But it's all speculation so far... it would surprise me if they would choose FRA the first day.

Is the strike on or not? And for how long? How many flights xld?

Is the strike on or not? And for how long? How many flights xld?

My crystal ball has been sent for polishing.
Sorry.

if ufo says "some will be surprised" i guess its going to be cologne or berlin.. last strike was at frankfurt (spring 2012).. so that wouldn't be a surprise

if ufo says "some will be surprised" i guess its going to be cologne or berlin.. last strike was at frankfurt (spring 2012).. so that wouldn't be a surprise

I doubt any LH mainline crew is based in Cologne these days... If they are, it will only effect only the flights to HAM and TXL, MUC is certainly staffed with the bavarian crew...

Hope they don´t mess with DUS next week. I should get to BCN... How likely they would reroute HEL to BCN using KL, AB, SK or even AY? Luckily there are half a dozen alternatives after noon. And to get back after 10 days is another matter. And would it be likely that MUC, FRA, DUS, and TXL would all be experiencing industrial action the same day?

I will be on a paid LH F ticket flying SFO-FRA-CDG (FRA-CDG in J) next month.

Since I paid $10K+ for my ticket, I don't want to fly UA F on my transatlantic flights!!

Will LH be more likely to reroute me SFO-ZRH-CDG (or perhaps SFO-JFK-ZRH-CDG or SFO-ORD-ZRH-CDG) on LX instead?

I will be sure to tell them "I don't want to fly UA on transatlantic flights" if my SFO-FRA flight gets cancelled.

Assuming the SFO-FRA doesn't get cancelled and I make it to FRA and my FRA-CDG LH flight gets cancelled instead, will they insist I fly FRA-ZRH-CDG on LX (since it is also star *), put me on a train to Paris or reroute me on Air France?

You could also try asking for TK.

Is the strike on or not? And for how long? How many flights xld?
It looks like strike will start on Friday (http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16206457,00.html)

Industrial action against the German national carrier Lufthansa would "definitely" begin on Friday, UFO said on its website Thursday, but it did not disclose exact times and the airports affected by the strike.
However, in deference to passengers, precise details would be announced six hours before they were scheduled to take place, UFO added.
[...]
UFO boss Nicoley Baublies reaffirmed the union's determination to launch an open-ended strike, but expressed the hope that pin-pointed actions might force Lufthansa to make a new offer."If that isn't going to happen, we have drafted plans for an all-out and indefinite strike," he told DPA.

It's good I'm not flying anymore with LH after too much strike trouble this spring.

Current travel information.

top Strike actions by the Independent Flight Attendants Organization (UFO) announced for Friday, 31 August 2012No strike actions are planned for today, Thursday, 30 August 2012. Thus, Lufthansa is confident to provide stable flight operations.

According to the latest UFO announcement, strike measures will start tomorrow, Friday, 31 August 2012. Details on the scope of the strikes (affected airports and expected duration) will be published by the union at very short notice only.

Lufthansa will do its utmost best to communicate the details on this page as soon as possible and to minimize the impacts on its customers.

In case of strike and resulting flight irregularities, passenger support and service have paramount priority.

An overview of cancelled flights will be published on this page. Lufthansa kindly asks affected passengers to check the status of their booking prior to departure at "My bookings." If an alternate flight has already been booked, check-in is possible as early as 23 hours before departure. Whenever possible, Lufthansa passengers, who have registered their contact details in their customer profile, will be informed via SMS or email about delays, cancellations and rebookings.

Passengers whose flights have been cancelled due to strike action are entitled to rebook or cancel free of charge, regardless of the fare conditions.

Passengers travelling within Germany whose flights have been cancelled due to strike action may alternatively travel by train with Deutsche Bahn. To do so, customers can exchange their e-ticket for a travel voucher under "My bookings" or at any Lufthansa check-in kiosk.

Beyond that Lufthansa cannot offer further compensation or reimbursement. Flight cancellations due to strike action are considered force majeure by EU regulation. Thus, Lufthansa is exempted from the obligation of providing compensation payments.

- as of 11:00 a.m. (German local time) -

Here you can find an overview of information services in case of flight disruptions.

Your bias really shows.... fire all strikers, really? And the "thankful to have a job" argument, again really?

You seem to be forgetting that this is about the only way employees can put some pressure on a company. It's not like they haven't been negotiating for just a short while......

Striking should be a last resort, especially when it impacts your customers. But sometimes it's just about the only thing that is left in a labor negotiation. And I'm rather expecting the first actions to be quite small. So far it's all about increasing the pressure.

And I think there are quite a few M&M HON's that would like to go on strike with LH if they could, if I look at some of the threads. :cool:

I would agree with you if the conditions were appalling, but as I have pointed out - and in response to UFO' own arguments - they have more vacation than the average person does, have access to benefits that are not available to anyone else outside of the airline industry, and because the Kollektiv Vertrag is not posted we can only speculate at the earning structure - but they did post what a newbie earns and I can tell you its a lot higher than what newbies get in other travel industry positions, never mind Hotel staff.

And who do you think is going to pay for the losses the company incurs? the UFO - no, the passengers will - and while we are traveling on the corporate dime it really doesn't matter to most people, but what about the family who wants to go on holiday next year and finds the prices have increased again? They by the way cannot go on strike because prices have risen as a result of union action. So possibly children are going to go short a holiday next year because a union decides it needs to have a strike as 3.5% is not enough which incidentally costs a company anywhere between 6 and 7 % in real terms-- just as an aside in the financial sector in Austria there will be a 3 % increase - and they are not going on strike.

Again, if it were reasonable because the conditions were so appalling we would all be behind this - but i do not see their demands as reasonable. A reasonable offer was put on the table, and was rejected because it was not enough.

The only company incidentally trying to deal with the people most affected are the airlines. UFO apparently are only interested in the money...doesn't that sound irritatingly similar to their accusations of LH?

There are so many industries where employees are sooo much worse off but cannot go on strike because there is no union protecting them, and even if they have a union their industry is not critical, so if the strike does take place the public is largely unaffected. This is not the case with LH, one more reason why UFO's actions are not reasonable. But hey its all just my opinion, and we are all entitled to them:D

It's always easy judging actions of others.... And there will always be plenty of examples where people are working in worse conditions. But please spare me the sob stories of people that cannot go on a holiday. It's just all not very relevant.

Judge it for what it is, a dispute between two parties.... Sure with a possible impact on others, but that shouldn't make any real difference.

You're justified in being angry for the impact it might have on your flights, but consider at least that LH is just as much to blame here too. They have knowingly let it come this far.....I'm sure that most employees would prefer another outcome and are well aware of the consequences.

If any laws are broken there are plenty of opportunities to do something about it for LH, the courts tend to have a rather decent position in these kind of disputes.

Better to wait and see what really happens.

...Thus, Lufthansa is exempted from the obligation of providing compensation payments.


I'm glad LH highlighted this for our benefit ...

What happens to the crew that are at an international destination when the strike happens?

For example, there is a crew of flight attendants at a hotel in SFO....then they go on strike. What happens to those FA's? Do they fly home free on another airline? Are they on their own?

The union cannot strike abroad, so only crew starting duty in Germany can decline to show up for work. Anyone outside the country has to report for duty as planned.

Any advice on what to do? Flying IAD-FRA-MUC, leaving today, so FRA-MUC tomorrow... I would think high chances of that being canceled. I would imagine train is the worst case scenario, but does LH C allow for DB 1st class? Any space issues on trains to be aware of? Thx for any input.

The Hub to Hub traffic should operate normally, worst case you can use the train using the ticket, which is normally faster since FRA to Munich downtown only takes 3h @:-)

The union cannot strike abroad, so only crew starting duty in Germany can decline to show up for work. Anyone outside the country has to report for duty as planned.

If I understand it correctly, this means

FRA-LHR: strike possible
LHR-FRA: no strike


Am I right?

If I understand it correctly, this means

FRA-LHR: strike possible
LHR-FRA: no strike


Am I right?

I guess so, unless your inbound aircraft does not make it in due to the strike. I am booked on LHR - DUS for Sat morning and will keep an eye on Fri night arrivals.

So...I'm going IAD-FRA tomorrow (Friday).

I'm assuming that the FA crew does a 24 hour layover at IAD...so they arrive today. Probably the same with most east coast-FRA flights. So you have a bunch of crews here in the US. I'm figuring that there will be less disruption for Intercontinental flights because of this.

My crew will be here....and as noted previously, they cannot strike when on an Int'l trip. I'm figuring that most domestic/intra-EU stuff will take the hit at first.

That being said....I booked a backup rez from FRA-MXP on another airline.

It's always easy judging actions of others.... And there will always be plenty of examples where people are working in worse conditions. But please spare me the sob stories of people that cannot go on a holiday. It's just all not very relevant.

Judge it for what it is, a dispute between two parties.... Sure with a possible impact on others, but that shouldn't make any real difference.

You're justified in being angry for the impact it might have on your flights, but consider at least that LH is just as much to blame here too. They have knowingly let it come this far.....I'm sure that most employees would prefer another outcome and are well aware of the consequences.


+1

Yes , LH leadership has publicly stated that they prefer a " Big Bang " . Thank you very much:mad:
And the reason supposedly is that this cost increase would be the one that finally made them completely uncompetitive ? Are they living in lala land .

I do understand that regional affiliates (Augsburg, Cityline, Eurowings, etc) are not going to be on strike.

Can these flights be affected nevertheless? For instance delays that are a "ripple-on" from other delays or cancellations (e.g. wiating for delayed connecting flights)? Or worse, LH shifting affiliate planes to mainline routes which would otherwise be cancelled, and thus leading to the affiliate flight to be cancelled?

Or can I just assume that my MUC-AMS-MUC, operated by Augsburg Airways, will just go ahead as planned?

It's always easy judging actions of others.... And there will always be plenty of examples where people are working in worse conditions. But please spare me the sob stories of people that cannot go on a holiday. It's just all not very relevant.

Judge it for what it is, a dispute between two parties.... Sure with a possible impact on others, but that shouldn't make any real difference.

You're justified in being angry for the impact it might have on your flights, but consider at least that LH is just as much to blame here too. They have knowingly let it come this far.....I'm sure that most employees would prefer another outcome and are well aware of the consequences.

If any laws are broken there are plenty of opportunities to do something about it for LH, the courts tend to have a rather decent position in these kind of disputes.

Better to wait and see what really happens.

Funnily enough I agree with you, in as much that LH are also to blame. And I wasn't disputing that. what I am trying to point out is that while its a dispute btw 2 parties it is the 3rd party that suffers for it near term or long term. and while the family mentioned was an analogy for people that fly on their own dime - I think it is valid. LH will pass the cost of the strike on to the passengers.

But UFO seemingly feels no responsibility to the people who will suffer - the passengers. in fact they are counting on the wrath of the passengers to help force LH' hand.

In the study of terrorism one of the first things you learn is that terrorist groups never target their intended target directly, but on the influencers, the people/citizens. They then put pressure on the government to change their national or international policy.

While calling UFO a terrorist organization is way too much and I am not, I do argue that their tactics are akin to terrorism, ie using a negative action to force a 3rd party to influence the decision of their intended target. It is extreme yes, but is it far fetched ... no I don't think so.

You're justified in being angry for the impact it might have on your flights, but consider at least that LH is just as much to blame here too.

Better to wait and see what really happens.

Just as an aside - I have travel insurance and a company card, so all told i will probably benefit by having to rebook in flex class fares and end up with more miles, so I am angry but more on the scale that we will be forced to pay for this fight in the future regardless of outcome.

My rant on Lufthansa I am still developing:D:D

I guess so, unless your inbound aircraft does not make it in due to the strike. I am booked on LHR - DUS for Sat morning and will keep an eye on Fri night arrivals.

My flight is not a 1st flight of the day.
LH flies LHR-FRA almost every one hour, so I guess I will be not able to find if my flight is ok or not until the day of departure.

For example, if my flight is LH902 departing 9AM from LHR, I may need to watch LH900 arrriving at LHR at 8AM from FRA.

As a kettle flying short haul intra Europe, I prefered LH over BA but now....

So...I'm going IAD-FRA tomorrow (Friday).

I'm assuming that the FA crew does a 24 hour layover at IAD...so they arrive today. Probably the same with most east coast-FRA flights. So you have a bunch of crews here in the US. I'm figuring that there will be less disruption for Intercontinental flights because of this.

My crew will be here....and as noted previously, they cannot strike when on an Int'l trip. I'm figuring that most domestic/intra-EU stuff will take the hit at first.

That being said....I booked a backup rez from FRA-MXP on another airline.

I think anything above 8h flying time gives the FAs a two days break, so the aircraft just needs to make to IAD and you return is guaranteed.

I do understand that regional affiliates (Augsburg, Cityline, Eurowings, etc) are not going to be on strike.

Can these flights be affected nevertheless? For instance delays that are a "ripple-on" from other delays or cancellations (e.g. wiating for delayed connecting flights)? Or worse, LH shifting affiliate planes to mainline routes which would otherwise be cancelled, and thus leading to the affiliate flight to be cancelled?

Or can I just assume that my MUC-AMS-MUC, operated by Augsburg Airways, will just go ahead as planned?


See the previous VC strike in 2009. LH Regional operated normally.

...

As a kettle flying short haul intra Europe, I prefered LH over BA but now....

I suspect our flight patterns may be somewhat similar.

Being UK-based, I started shifting most of my flights from LH/LX to BA when all the "enhancements" were communicated in the spring. I am now BA Silver and am actually quite happy at and with BA.

With regard to your upcoming flight, you may want to keep an eye where UFO hit on what day - and also check the LH website as LH have promised to communicate any cancellations as early as possible, both in list form and in your personal booking overview.

Good luck.

UFO says on their website

..., da der Streik an dem Ort stattfinden wird, wo auch die Verantwortung für das derzeitige Lufthansa-Desaster begann.

... Since the strike will take place at the location, where also the responsibility for the current Lufthansa-Desaster began.

http://www.ufo-online.com/flugbegleiter/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=385:Am%20Freitag%20geht%27s%20los&catid=34:Lufthansa&Itemid=53

anyone knows where that location might be?



So they strike in Dubai and Abu Dhabi?

Any idea what LH will do for reward tickets on *Alliance? Mine is booked by Air Canada, but is on LH metal.

I have a YUL - MUC - MAD flight in F and J on Saturday.

I know LH will likely say go to Aeroplan, which I will do if there is a cancellation. Trying to understand what LH will let Aeroplan do.

There is a YUL-ZRH-MAD with F8 (no reward inventory) which would get me where I'm going. Any shot of that?

I am actually on a paid AC flight to YUL before the reward flight. I could change to a different start location (ie YYZ/ORD where there are more over the pond options on LH) would they move to a different flight if there is a seat, even if not reward avail?

Recommendations?

So they strike in Dubai and Abu Dhabi?

:D:D:D

So...I'm going IAD-FRA tomorrow (Friday).

I'm assuming that the FA crew does a 24 hour layover at IAD...so they arrive today. Probably the same with most east coast-FRA flights. So you have a bunch of crews here in the US. I'm figuring that there will be less disruption for Intercontinental flights because of this.

My crew will be here....and as noted previously, they cannot strike when on an Int'l trip. I'm figuring that most domestic/intra-EU stuff will take the hit at first....



Perhaps we are on the same flight, LH 419 IAD-FRA? I have made the same assumptions you have re: the flight crew being at IAD already (2-day layover) or possibly arriving today to IAD. In any event, I am not anticipating any problem with this flight on Friday. We will have to wait to see what happens to our connecting flights at FRA (mine to AMS).

Times have been posted:

Current travel information
top Strike action by the Independent Flight Attendants Organization (UFO) on Friday, 31 August 2012, between 5 a.m. and 1 p.m. at Frankfurt airportThe Independent Flight Attendants Organization (UFO) has called cabin crews to strike action for Friday, 31 August 2012, from 05.00 hrs to 13.00 hrs (German local time) at Frankfurt (FRA) airport.

Lufthansa sincerely regrets that the labor dispute is being waged at the expense of its customers. The fact that UFO announces strike actions only at short notice creates additional problems for passengers because it will further limit their ability to make reliable travel plans.

The call to strike action may lead to unscheduled flight delays and cancellations at Lufthansa. Long-haul flights are the uppermost priority and, wherever possible, should not be cancelled. Nevertheless, delays must be anticipated.

At this stage Lufthansa cannot say for sure what exact impact the strike action will have. However, it has been confirmed that neither Lufthansa Regional nor Germanwings flights will be affected.

Lufthansa regrets any inconvenience to its passengers caused by the strike measures and will do its utmost best to minimize the impacts. Passenger support and service have paramount priority. Whenever possible, Lufthansa passengers, who have registered their contact details in their customer profile, will be informed via SMS or email about delays, cancellations and rebookings.

Cancelled flights:
Passengers can obtain information on the status of their flights as early as the afternoon of the day before their travel and should check currently cancelled flights under Cancelled flights.

Cancelled flights

Affected passengers are requested to check the status of their booking prior to departure at My bookings. You may already find an alternate flight and can check-in as early as 23 hours before departure.

My bookings

Automatic flight status information via email or Twitter:
Up-to-date information on your Lufthansa flights is available under Flight status.

Additionally, you can request automatic flight status push notifications via email or Twitter. Simply register for your preferred contact channel on the flight details page.

Check Flight status

If your flight has been cancelled:
Passengers whose flights have been cancelled are kindly asked to check on Online Check-in if they have already been checked in on an alternate flight. If this is the case, the boarding pass for the new flight can instantly be created online.

Online Check-in

German domestic flights:
Passengers travelling within Germany whose flights have been cancelled due to the strike may alternatively travel by train with Deutsche Bahn. To do so, please exchange your e-ticket for a travel voucher under My bookings or at a Lufthansa check-in kiosk. When exchanging online, you can either print the travel voucher or send it via email or SMS to your mobile phone.

If you do not have the time to exchange your flight ticket online or at the check-in kiosk, we recommend you purchase a regular train ticket. In this case we kindly ask for your understanding that you will only be refunded the unused portion of your flight ticket. As the reason for cancellation was force majeure we are unable to provide any compensation beyond the value of the unused flight ticket. Please contact your ticket issuing office after your travel for a refund of your unused flight ticket.

Please note that due to increasing passenger numbers train operations by Deutsche Bahn can be affected as well. You can receive current travel information at Deutsche Bahn via http://www.bahn.de/aktuell or on your mobile phone via m.bahn.de.

Affected passengers are entitled to rebook or cancel free of charge:
If your flight has been cancelled and you cannot use the self-service options above, please contact our Service Center toll free at 0800 8 50 60 70 or via one of our local phone numbers.

Beyond that Lufthansa cannot offer further compensation or reimbursement. Flight cancellations due to strike action are considered force majeure by EU regulation. Thus, Lufthansa is exempted from the obligation of providing compensation payments.

- as of 30 August 2012, 10:45 p.m. (German local time) -

So far no flights have been cancelled. Thats the good news. The bad flight delays have already been announced.

So far no flights have been cancelled. Thats the good news. The bad flight delays have already been announced.

wonder if they won't know xcl's until crews don't show up at assigned times for their "shifts". I don't know if the cabin crews will call in sick or just not show?

Perhaps we are on the same flight, LH 419 IAD-FRA? I have made the same assumptions you have re: the flight crew being at IAD already (2-day layover) or possibly arriving today to IAD. In any event, I am not anticipating any problem with this flight on Friday. We will have to wait to see what happens to our connecting flights at FRA (mine to AMS).

I'm on that flight, too. I'm concerned about my connecting flight (to HEL) but figured about all I could do was research what the alternatives are in the event of a cancellation.

My bigger worry is my return next week, when I have a relatively short connection (1 hour, 20 minutes) to a UA flight at FRA.

wonder if they won't know xcl's until crews don't show up at assigned times for their "shifts". I don't know if the cabin crews will call in sick or just not show?

Great point

Just checked flight stats and flight board, and they are cancelling flights to munich, dresden, hamburg and so on. Looks like until 13 hours those pax will be transported by train. Thats not a bad option as the train to munich puts you into town saving you a serious transfer....

I also saw that a lhr flight got cancelled

Redundant

All flights shown with lh as lead flight- this includes the various codeshares - this is the info i pulled of flightstats

Lh 142 10:45 Nürenberg
Lh 1058 08:45 nice
Lh 104 9:05 MUC
Lh 270 0845 milan
Lh 246 0715 Milan
Lh 940 0725 manchester
Lh 896 08:45 london
Lh 1292 10:55 larnaca
Lh 12 12:05 hamburg
Lh 1186 08:40 zürich
Lh 1184 07:45 zurich
Lh 1234 08:45 vienna
Lh 800 07:35 stockholm
Lh 230 07:35 rome
Lh 1394 1020 prag
Lh 858 07:15 oslo
Lh 812 08:25 gotheburg
Lh 822 07:15 copenhagen
Lh 952 08:05 birmingham
Lh 180 11:35 berlin
Lh 988 08:55 amsterdam

Agsin i pulled this of flightstats ahve not found corroborating info from lh. It is however 4 am here soo.....

Hope everyone makes it through ok

Beyond that Lufthansa cannot offer further compensation or reimbursement. Flight cancellations due to strike action are considered force majeure by EU regulation. Thus, Lufthansa is exempted from the obligation of providing compensation payments.

- as of 11:00 a.m. (German local time) -

Here you can find an overview of information services in case of flight disruptions.

So does this apply to flights from the U.S.? I'm flying (well maybe) from SEA to FRA tomorrow. What are the compensation rules for flights originating in the U.S.? The inbound flight is scheduled to leave FRA at 9:50 AM so I'm guessing at best my flight will be delayed by three or four hours if it's not cancelled.

What do you think to accomplish by going to FRA? There won't be any strikes today..... and your long-haul flight tomorrow will probably be fine.

Greetings from Boston. What I accomplished is that I rebooked myself and flew away about 18 hours before the strike hit. Hopefully it will not be very disruptive. RTW1, 'probably fine' tomorrow wouldn't have worked for me.

Regards,

Delta141

http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/de/info_and_services/irregularities/canceled_flights?nodeid=3494927&l=en&cid=18002

This site says there are no canceled flights today, that can't be right? Or has the strike been called off?

FlightStats is showing lots of cancellations.

Very poor of LH. My guess is that they're overwhelmed and simultaneously crapping their pants.

http://www.frankfurt-airport.com/content/frankfurt_airport/en/flights/departures.html


Lots of Cancelled flights

FlightStats is showing lots of cancellations.

Very poor of LH. My guess is that they're overwhelmed and simultaneously crapping their pants.

They are posting on facebook about a large wave of cancellations.

FRA is going to be a mess! latest updated xcl's: http://www.lufthansa.com/mediapool/pdf/51/media_647971051.pdf?blt_p=US&blt_l=en&blt_t=Local&blt_e=Content&blt_n=Strike%20action%20by%20the%20Independent%20F light%20Attendants&blt_z=Cancelled%20flights

So does this apply to flights from the U.S.? I'm flying (well maybe) from SEA to FRA tomorrow. What are the compensation rules for flights originating in the U.S.? The inbound flight is scheduled to leave FRA at 9:50 AM so I'm guessing at best my flight will be delayed by three or four hours if it's not cancelled.

There's little chance that your SEA-FRA flight would be affected by the strike.
The inbound flight is showing on time so hopefully it will be a non-issue for you.

FRA is going to be a mess! latest updated xcl's: http://www.lufthansa.com/mediapool/pdf/51/media_647971051.pdf?blt_p=US&blt_l=en&blt_t=Local&blt_e=Content&blt_n=Strike%20action%20by%20the%20Independent%20F light%20Attendants&blt_z=Cancelled%20flights
The above list sorted by destination:

LH988 FRA AMS 08:55
LH800 FRA ARN 07:35
LH1126 FRA BCN 09:40
LH952 FRA BHX 08:05
LH34 FRA BRE 06:40
LH1030 FRA CDG 09:35
LH822 FRA CPH 07:15
LH204 FRA DRS 06:45
LH230 FRA FCO 07:35
LH812 FRA GOT 08:25
LH1214 FRA GVA 09:20
LH46 FRA HAJ 06:40
LH50 FRA HAJ 09:45
LH32 FRA HAM 06:05
LH12 FRA HAM 12:05
LH1292 FRA LCA 10:55
LH896 FRA LGW 08:45
LH924 FRA LHR 06:55
LH270 FRA LIN 08:45
LH1112 FRA MAD 09:05
LH940 FRA MAN 07:25
LH104 FRA MUC 09:05
LH246 FRA MXP 07:15
LH1058 FRA NCE 08:45
LH142 FRA NUE 10:45
LH858 FRA OSL 07:15
LH1394 FRA PRG 10:20
LH130 FRA STR 13:15
LH168 FRA TXL 06:00
LH180 FRA TXL 11:35
LH1234 FRA VIE 08:45
LH1182 FRA ZRH 06:45
LH1184 FRA ZRH 07:45
LH1186 FRA ZRH 08:40

and the return flights to FRA are obviously also cancelled:

LH989 AMS FRA 10:45
LH801 ARN FRA 10:20
LH1127 BCN FRA 12:35
LH953 BHX FRA 09:20
LH37 BRE FRA 08:10
LH1031 CDG FRA 11:30
LH823 CPH FRA 09:15
LH207 DRS FRA 08:20
LH231 FCO FRA 10:10
LH813 GOT FRA 10:40
LH1215 GVA FRA 11:00
LH51 HAJ FRA 08:15
LH55 HAJ FRA 11:10
LH5 HAM FRA 07:55
LH17 HAM FRA 13:55
LH1293 LCA FRA 16:30
LH897 LGW FRA 09:45
LH925 LHR FRA 08:20
LH271 LIN FRA 10:35
LH1113 MAD FRA 12:30
LH941 MAN FRA 08:55
LH109 MUC FRA 10:45
LH247 MXP FRA 09:00
LH1059 NCE FRA 10:55
LH147 NUE FRA 12:05
LH859 OSL FRA 09:55
LH1395 PRG FRA 12:10
LH135 STR FRA 14:30
LH175 TXL FRA 07:55
LH187 TXL FRA 13:30
LH1235 VIE FRA 10:55
LH1183 ZRH FRA 08:20
LH1185 ZRH FRA 09:15
LH1187 ZRH FRA 10:10

A wave of early-morning ex-FRA flights cancelled, then sporadically through mid-morning according to the flight boards at FRA. SEN lounge in A filled to overflowing as I passed by at 0700 (LH109 MUCFRA at 1045 cancelled, got the 099 at 0605); lines lengthening at help desks; about 100 striking FAs just standing around in a herd of yellow strike vests outside the DLH Basis entrance. Otherwise looked like a normal Friday-morning FRA scrum.

FRA is going to be a mess! latest updated xcl's: http://www.lufthansa.com/mediapool/pdf/51/media_647971051.pdf?blt_p=US&blt_l=en&blt_t=Local&blt_e=Content&blt_n=Strike%20action%20by%20the%20Independent%20F light%20Attendants&blt_z=Cancelled%20flights

About 3 dozen flights is hardly 'a mess' compared to the volume LH churns out each morning, I'm surprised how little they have cancelled. FRA must not be a big stronghold of UFO.

BTW the estimates of how many UFO members are there now varies from 30 to 60%, my educated guess now is that the real figure is somewhat around 35-40%.

Sadly the domestic cancellations will mean that many working FAs who live in other parts of Germany may not make it in time to FRA to report for duty :o

I'm surprised they cancelled some flights where there are no alternatives, e.g. MAN-FRA, BHX-FRA. I hope passengers booked on the cancelled flights were accommodated on earlier flights (operated by BMI) especially those with connecting longhaul flights.

About 3 dozen flights is hardly 'a mess' compared to the volume LH churns out each morning, I'm surprised how little they have cancelled. FRA must not be a big stronghold of UFO.

Not sure how you come to this, so far this morning (according to the flight stats on Lufthansa.com) they had THREE mainline flights (one each to BUD, AMS and HAM) depart with everything else operated by mainline cancelled. That is hardly "little" cancellations - the published PDF is just severely off.

Greetings - Dirk

RTW1, 'probably fine' tomorrow wouldn't have worked for me.

If you are flexible like you are.... leaving a day early is off course a better solution. But you would have arrived in FRA without any problems.
Although I'm amazed that they have chosen to start in FRA, even if the number of cancelled flights seems to be limited.

LH686 31. August 2012 10:10 Frankfurt/Main 15:05 Tel Aviv cancelled


Thats what it says on the website, list of cancelled flights. I told my friend to stay home and rebook over the phone. He said he is in a taxi anyway and will go. He gets to the airport and they tell him, the list is wrong, flight is going and checking him in. Very weird....

The list is getting longer...
As there are also long hauls showing up, I would say more than 30% of cabin crew are UFO organized.

Not sure how you come to this, so far this morning (according to the flight stats on Lufthansa.com) they had THREE mainline flights (one each to BUD, AMS and HAM) depart with everything else operated by mainline cancelled. That is hardly "little" cancellations - the published PDF is just severely off.


I was using the published pdf, they had cancelled 32 rotations then, which would not have been a big deal. :rolleyes:

Up to 08:05 CET, 29 flights cancelled, 14 flights operated and 1 delayed ex-FRA according to lufthansa.com.

Up to 08:05 CET, 29 flights cancelled, 14 flights operated and 1 delayed ex-FRA according to lufthansa.com.

Take CR7, E90/95 and the likes operated flights off that equation, and we talk about a 80+% cessation of mainline-operations. Not what I had expected, but a strong message. Which also seems to have reached LH's higher-ups, as according to radio-news, Lufthansa has asked UFO to restart negotiations ASAP...

Greetings - Dirk

I am at fra sen lounge now after getting rebooked by the sen hotline. 0905 to athens was cancelled just as i arrived from INN. Rebooking my onward flight out of ath cost me another 420 euro. Lh was really slow on the uptake from what i could see. It seemed to me that they didn't know which crew members were UFO members.

The staff at FRA are polite and helpful but there isn't a lot that they can do.

Talked to one FRA official and they said that generally from past experience The strike should end on time. For today.

Avoid A terminal if you can as it is chaos out there. Sen lounge a26 had a line of a good 100 people trying to get in. Sen lounge b42 is relatively quiet.

So UFO acted as i thought they would and targeted the busiest airport they could in order to cause as much disruption as possible. And the people that are really paying is us! Thats gone from beyond helping your members get a fair wage to .... Well you all know my thoughts on that!

So any lawyers out there- can we send UFO the bill?

Ahh what a delight, my flights today LCA-FRA-DUB are cancelled, only rebooking LH is offering is on Sunday :td: (and that is LCA-VIE-DUS-DUB)

Ahh what a delight, my flights today LCA-FRA-DUB are cancelled, only rebooking LH is offering is on Sunday :td: (and that is LCA-VIE-DUS-DUB)

on my way to Berlin Hautbahnhof in order to get train ticket BERWAW - I want no risk for my tomorrow morning TXLFRAWAW.

mfk

As of 0945 CET most ex-FRA longhauls appear to be delayed until 1340 or later (with exception of 456 to LAX scheduled for 1015 vice 1000, 490 to SEA cancelled).

Thus, e.g., 454 to SFO delayed from 0950 to 1410, 430 to ORD from 1040 to 1340, 754 to BLR from 1215 to 1445.

First longhaul cancellations:

LH490 Seattle
LH400 New York JFK
LH758 Chennai

Also all A380 departures this morning were delayed by 4 hours, and many other longhauls show a delay beyond 1pm.

Greetings - Dirk

Apparently German Vielfliegertreff Forum is on strike too ;)

I didn't thought UFO had so much power, it seems this one will really hurt LH!

2 More long haul cancels:

LH 444 FRA-ATL
LH 426 FRA-PHL

Hmm, seems strikes are hitting them pretty hard. Any idea whats the percentage of FA's on strike?

LH422 (FRA-BOS) as well...

Also LH418 (IAD) and LH465 (LAX) are creeping forward in their delay. However for LH462 (MIA) the delay has been reduced from 3 hours to 1:20.

Greetings - Dirk

Interesting that LH put on their web page that EU compensation does NOT apply...they are calling this force majeure.

You could argue that the actions of LH have been instrumental in creating this strike... but as a general rule strikes are considered "extraordinary circumstances".

I wonder what some of the other countries involved will have to say about this...they are canceling a ton of flights OUTSIDE of the EU.

Not sure how you come to this, so far this morning (according to the flight stats on Lufthansa.com) they had THREE mainline flights (one each to BUD, AMS and HAM) depart with everything else operated by mainline cancelled. That is hardly "little" cancellations - the published PDF is just severely off.

Take CR7, E90/95 and the likes operated flights off that equation, and we talk about a 80+% cessation of mainline-operations. Not what I had expected, but a strong message. Which also seems to have reached LH's higher-ups, as according to radio-news, Lufthansa has asked UFO to restart negotiations ASAP...
Correct. Of the 14 flights which departed before 08:05, only 3 of them were operated by mainline. It looks like 90% of mainline flights were cancelled.

I was able to switch from LH 419 tonight (which is delayed 3 hours) to UA 916. The UA Premier Desk was on hold with Lufthansa for about 15-20 minutes in order to reissue the ticket.

We are currently booked on Mileage Plus award tickets departing Rome this Sunday at 6:30 on LH243 connecting to LH438 to DFW at 10:10am. With the strike would I be better off trying to change my ticket to Frankfurt tomorrow night instead of having a connection on Sunday morning? There are no other carriers that could get me to FRA in time for the DFW flight if something happens to that first leg.

The apron of FRA is parked full, so the current NOTAM closed it as an alternate deviation point:

Data Current as of: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:14:00 UTC
EDDF FRANKFURT MAIN

A4187/12 - NOT AVBL AS ALTN AD. 31 AUG 06:11 2012 UNTIL 31 AUG 15:00 2012. CREATED: 31 AUG
06:12 2012

We are currently booked on Mileage Plus award tickets departing Rome this Sunday at 6:30 on LH243 connecting to LH438 to DFW at 10:10am. With the strike would I be better off trying to change my ticket to Frankfurt tomorrow night instead of having a connection on Sunday morning? There are no other carriers that could get me to FRA in time for the DFW flight if something happens to that first leg.

I am only guessing: no strike over the weekend and you can only rebook free of charge if there is actually a strike!

Chill, I am sure you will be fine! German unions don't tend to strike on the weekend, let alone a sunday... Crazy as these i..... are, you can never be sure :mad:

I would advise you to contact UA MP to see if they can rebook you onto the UA FCO-IAD flight and avoid FRA all together.

Just after lunchtime Christoph Franz flew home to ZRH with LX ...

Waiting here in the LHR T1 *A lounge.

My LH907 LHR FRA was cancelled around 13:15 GMT, scheduled departure 14:15 GMT. I was protected on LH909 scheduled for 15:10 now delayed to 15:40.

The automated protection and email alerts were helpful.

What I found annoying was the LH/*A check-in/ticket counters that's near the *A lounge here in T1. There's something lacking with the service they provide, even in the supposed LH F/*G line. It wasn't even busy when I got my new BP for LH909. You would have never known there was IROPS going on. This was my fourth trip to that counter after being told go to here, then there, then there, then here, then there, ask for this, ask for that, get denied, get denied, go back to lounge and veg and watch the cancellations and delays pile up.

Remember the first time international flyer who ended up in F on 8/26 on LH455 from SFO-FRA? His beginner's luck just ran out.

Well, he, my husband and their work colleague are all en route to Lyon, France from Frankfurt in a car. Road trip!

Their flight from Dublin at 6:30 a.m. departed fine. When checking in at Dublin, they were told that their FRA-LYS flight was still scheduled. Got to FRA and went to the gate for flight LH 1076. Everything seemed fine, GA's were working, and 5 minutes prior to boarding they announced that the crew hadn't shown. After a further 20 minutes they announced that the flight was cancelled. My husband sent me a photo of the Service Center line. It's not pretty.

LH wouldn't release their bags, but told them to fill out an online form.

On a good note, they are taking things in stride, and will even be able to visit Switzerland. :)

On a positive note, LH has really clean cabins.

On a positive note, LH has really clean cabins.

That's because they don't get used a lot at present ... :rolleyes:

I was on flight today from FRA - BRU that canceled, they rebook me to next flight that was still before 13:00. The lady in the counter suggest me to take the ICE train to Brussels (she thought that the next flight 11:55 will be canceled later where she was right), my question what about the miles do I still will get the full amount of miles that I had to if I flew (they change my ticket to train)?:confused:

I'm sure it's just a coincidence, ;) but I am unable to get through to the LH phone center in the U.S. While they do answer, starting with the intitial automated service and even when a person answers, it is very garbled and we are unable to communicate. I tried with both my land line and cell phone.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence, ;) but I am unable to get through to the LH phone center in the U.S. While they do answer, starting with the intitial automated service and even when a person answers, it is very garbled and we are unable to communicate. I tried with both my land line and cell phone.

US SEN line worked for me 1hr ago.

my question what about the miles do I still will get the full amount of miles that I had to if I flew (they change my ticket to train)?:confused:

You have to do a manual retroclaim to get the original miles.

I have a flight next wednesday morning FRA to AMS which I have to catch for starting a cruise - seeing todays mess I just booked a KLM award ticket as insurance and were lucky to get it for 5k miles and 38 euros.

So, people at UFO: you owe me 5k FB miles and 38 Euros... :(

Looks like flights from BOS, PHL, ATL, JFK (LH401) are xcl'd today

Add LH491 SEA to the list....

US SEN line worked for me 1hr ago.

I am calling on the Plebian number ;) and I still have the same issue I was having. Hopefully it will be fixed by this afternoon.

We look to be ok. Our incoming plane left about 90 minutes late but got out. Thank Goodness!!

I booked my flight via United using miles to fly 1st class from SEA to FRA on LH. I flew to SEA from PDX yesterday and spent the night. I had no knowledge of the impending LH strike until I read about it on my flight to Seattle. I got up at 2:00 this morning to check flight status and saw my LH flight was cancelled. I called United and was able to get a flight in coach to IAD then on to FRA in F this evening. I'm sure I'm one of the lucky ones. At least I'm getting to my location on the same day, just a few hours later. I would like some type of point reimbursment or future upgrade since I flew half my journey in coach but paid in miles for First. I'm not sure who to ask, LH or UA. Also I'm curious to know if there is any penalty owed to me since I'll be arriving in FRA over 3 hours later than my original flight. LH site says no penalty is owed due to EU regulations but do EU rules apply to flights originating in the US? It sure would have been nice if LH called to tell me about the strike. I could have made changes to my trip earlier in the week and gotten some sleep last night.

http://distilleryimage2.instagram.com/7e1ae068f3ba11e19a4b22000a1cdc07_7.jpg

Here is the result in FRA, courtesy of a friend who is suppose to be flying to Switzerland.

I was on flight today from FRA - BRU that canceled, they rebook me to next flight that was still before 13:00. The lady in the counter suggest me to take the ICE train to Brussels (she thought that the next flight 11:55 will be canceled later where she was right), my question what about the miles do I still will get the full amount of miles that I had to if I flew (they change my ticket to train)?:confused:

previously in a similar situation, I have received miles as expected to be flown

We are to fly out on Monday night to Frankfurt. The flight is with United 'operated by Deutsche Lufthansa'. I take it that in event of further strike, we could be cancelled. Would we be rebooked by United?

We are to fly out on Monday night to Frankfurt. The flight is with United 'operated by Deutsche Lufthansa'. I take it that in event of further strike, we could be cancelled. Would we be rebooked by United?

You can be rebooked by any Star Alliance member (including UA and LH), assuming that the ticket is issued on a Star carrier.

I suggest you go to the operator of the flight you want to be rebooked onto.

We're booked for LH travel 11Sept on *A award. Far enough away for this strike to resolve or should I rebook?

Same here we are to fly on Sept 7th from YYZ to Warsaw on LOT, then LH form Warsaw to Frankfurt then Frankfurt to Florence. I booked two reward business class tickets from Aeroplan and I'm at a loss on what to do. I know its over a week away but We need to get to Italy. So any ideas on what to do?

What's about our rights against the union? because LH will fly.
The union's week boss is the reason that LH can't fly.
And we the pax are the victims of him. We can't fly as planned, (and evtl. have to pay for another flight (because under EU-law LH hasn't to pay for strike-related cancellations), and for higher ticketprices later on)

Same here we are to fly on Sept 7th from YYZ to Warsaw on LOT, then LH form Warsaw to Frankfurt then Frankfurt to Florence. I booked two reward business class tickets from Aeroplan and I'm at a loss on what to do. I know its over a week away but We need to get to Italy. So any ideas on what to do?

Yeah, I'm literally about to book a connection via FRA to Nuremberg and the German leg is LH Friday 7 Sept going back Sunday or Monday 9-10 Sept.

Should I just book into MUC on none LH star carrier and drive?

Same here we are to fly on Sept 7th from YYZ to Warsaw on LOT, then LH form Warsaw to Frankfurt then Frankfurt to Florence. I booked two reward business class tickets from Aeroplan and I'm at a loss on what to do. I know its over a week away but We need to get to Italy. So any ideas on what to do?

Check to see if Swiss/LOT has any options WAW - Florence and see if you can get rebooked (there will be a change fee for Aeroplan tickets).

Buy refundable backup tickets from Warsaw to Florence on another carrier (eg. AF and route through CDG / KL and route through AMS)?

What's about our rights against the union? ...

How about for pax who had their flights cancelled to stage a counter-strike/protest?

Surprisingly large number of long haul flights were canceled today and with very little notice....

So do we know anything about future strike dates?

Yeah, I'm literally about to book a connection via FRA to Nuremberg and the German leg is LH Friday 7 Sept going back Sunday or Monday 9-10 Sept.

Should I just book into MUC on none LH star carrier and drive?
Frankfurt Airport to Nuremberg is anout 2.5 hours by train and if your flight is cancelled your LH ticket can be exchanged for a Deutsche Bahn travel voucher.

http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/de/nonav/local?nodeid=1874371&l=en&cid=18002

So do we know anything about future strike dates?

No, the union will announce actions only a few hours before it taking place. They relish in the fact that they can surprise LH.

I'm slightly confused. If a flight was canceled on 8/31 due to the strike and there's a 2 day rest period at the int'l location, does that mean the 9/2 flight back to Germany will be canceled due to lack of crew?

I'm slightly confused. If a flight was canceled on 8/31 due to the strike and there's a 2 day rest period at the int'l location, does that mean the 9/2 flight back to Germany will be canceled due to lack of crew?

Wouldn't it be the 8/29 FRA-XXX crew who will be going back on the 9/2 flight [they now have a 4 day rest period instead of 2 days] (since the 8/31 XXX-FRA got got cancelled and they have no way to get out of XXX, while the 9/1 XXX-FRA would be served by the 8/30 crew as usual)?

Finally made it through to peking. Strike cost me 900 euro to rebook the non lh flight that i would have made if not for the strike.

Does anyone know if UFO is protected by EU law, because i sure would love to make them pay

(deleted)

I booked my flight via United using miles to fly 1st class from SEA to FRA on LH. I flew to SEA from PDX yesterday and spent the night. I had no knowledge of the impending LH strike until I read about it on my flight to Seattle. I got up at 2:00 this morning to check flight status and saw my LH flight was cancelled. I called United and was able to get a flight in coach to IAD then on to FRA in F this evening. I'm sure I'm one of the lucky ones. At least I'm getting to my location on the same day, just a few hours later. I would like some type of point reimbursment or future upgrade since I flew half my journey in coach but paid in miles for First. I'm not sure who to ask, LH or UA. Also I'm curious to know if there is any penalty owed to me since I'll be arriving in FRA over 3 hours later than my original flight. LH site says no penalty is owed due to EU regulations but do EU rules apply to flights originating in the US? It sure would have been nice if LH called to tell me about the strike. I could have made changes to my trip earlier in the week and gotten some sleep last night.

The airlines that issued your ticket is responsible to get you transported from A to B in the class you booked. If their partner is affected by a strike and cancels the flight, the partner informs the issuing airline so that they can make arrangements. In this case UA evidently failed to inform you of the change. EU rules require LH and the issuing airline to provide for you and make sure you get where you planned to get to. However if you are transported by a non EU carrier from the US, DOT rules not EU rules apply.

Does anyone know if UFO is protected by EU law, because i sure would love to make them pay

Why do you keep asking the same question over and over again :confused:... it's quite clear that there is no right for financial compensation.

Sure, be angry... it's never fun being delayed, especially when it's due to something like this. But you know there is a risk when you have a connecting flight not on the same ticket.
I'm afraid there's not much you can do but accept the loss.

But you can (and maybe should) write to LH and document your loss, they might be inclined to give you some compensation as a good will gesture.

Let us look at the bright side of this strike: I have been operationally upgraded on the two EK and EY flights that I have been taking to/from German destinations over the last 48 hours. They miraculously filled up in Y resp. J class over night, probably driven by LH flyers who rebooked on other airlines.

So do we know anything about future strike dates?

I read somewhere on the internet that the next stike may be on Saturday Sept 8th. The union was going to decide on Friday.

I read somewhere on the internet that the next stike may be on Saturday Sept 8th. The union was going to decide on Friday.

I also read in a few places that they 'would decide Friday about a possible Saturday' strike, but I got the impression they were referring to today (Saturday). Do they usually to the strike days very close together, or do they put a few days in between strike days?

Just a few cancellations today... Wonder what the end result will be.

Frankfurt Airport to Nuremberg is anout 2.5 hours by train and if your flight is cancelled your LH ticket can be exchanged for a Deutsche Bahn travel voucher.

http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/de/nonav/local?nodeid=1874371&l=en&cid=18002

Thank you, after your post I see the blurb on the LH website about DB taking up some of the slack.

I'm getting a car, so I'd rather connect in the US directly to MUC as it is closer to Nuremburg if the actual flgiht via FRA to Nuremberg is canx'd.
At this point I guess there is no way to tell for sure until they announce future strike dates. I can wait until tomorrow otherwise I'll just book to MUC and drive.

Thank you again for the info about DB that is good to know!

Thank you, after your post I see the blurb on the LH website about DB taking up some of the slack.

I'm getting a car, so I'd rather connect in the US directly to MUC as it is closer to Nuremburg if the actual flgiht via FRA to Nuremberg is canx'd.
At this point I guess there is no way to tell for sure until they announce future strike dates. I can wait until tomorrow otherwise I'll just book to MUC and drive.

Thank you again for the info about DB that is good to know!
MUC-NUE flights are unlikely to be affected by the strike since they are operated by Augsburg Airways or Lufthansa Cityline neither of which is involved in the dispute.

Flying LH = BUD to FRA, then FRA to LAX on Tues. Sep. 11. Bought tickets from United.

So, I should call United if there is to be a strike called?

Will someone please post on this board when the strikes are announced? It's hard to get through to LH or UA.
Thanks, cb

It's a bit soon to worry about a flight that is still 10 days away.... And don't you feel people have been posting here about the strike so far :confused:

For what it is worth, I checked in at the first class area at MUC today.

The agent thought that Monday morning would be a nice and disruptive time to launch a strike with a lot of full fare business travelers.

She also mentioned that strikes rarely happen on the weekend and are usually morning events. Again, this is just her talking.

I was seating by the jumpseat on the A321 and asked the flight attendant. She too had no idea but thought Monday morning was a quite possible too.

I then said well since FRA was targeted last time that perhaps it will be MUC this time. To that, the airport agent replied she heard they may go for more the one airport at a time for the next one.

Again...just an airport agent and flight attendant...not the facts.

Just announced in the news: next strike on Tuesday; airport not yet announced.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/weitere-streiks-ufo-setzt-lufthansa-unter-druck-11877114.html

All I can say is the striking LH folks can jump out at cruising altitude without a parachute - hell, I'll even give 'em a little push if they have second thoughts. I was unfortunately stuck in Frankfurt on the day of the strike and the lines were MASSIVE. The only reason I didn't have to wait in the 4-hour line is my Star Alliance Gold status.

To credit the LH folks who actually showed up to work to do their damn jobs, they put me on a long-haul sleeper train and I got to my destination.

This experience makes me want to cross picket lines on principle.

Announcement on lufthansa.com:

Strike actions by the Independent Flight Attendants Organization (UFO) announced for Tuesday, 4 September 2012

The Independent Flight Attendants Organization (UFO) has again called cabin crews to strike on Tuesday, 4 September 2012. Details on the scope of the strikes (affected airports and expected duration) will be published by the union at very short notice only. Lufthansa will do its utmost best to communicate the details on this page as soon as possible and to minimize the impacts on its customers.

No strike actions are planned for Monday, 3 September 2012. Thus, Lufthansa is confident to provide stable flight operations.

...

Rebooking or refund free of charge:
Passengers whose flights have been cancelled and who cannot use the self-service options above can contact the Lufthansa Service Center toll free (for calls from Germany) at 0800 8 50 60 70 (English-speaking customers, please select menu option 1 for respective language support) or via one of the local phone numbers.

Passengers whose flights have been cancelled are entitled to rebook or refund their ticket free of charge.

As a sign of courtesy, all passengers with Lufthansa tickets issued before 31 August 2012 for Lufthansa operated flights (even if not cancelled) departing before Monday, 3 September 2012, 11:59 p.m. (German local time) are entitled to one rebooking onto alternate flights by Lufthansa, Austrian Airlines, Brussels Airlines or Swiss free of charge. New travel must occur before 30 November 2012. Origin and destination cannot be changed.

- as of 2 September 2012, 8:10 p.m. (German local time) -

All I can say is the striking LH folks can jump out at cruising altitude without a parachute - hell, I'll even give 'em a little push if they have second thoughts. I was unfortunately stuck in Frankfurt on the day of the strike and the lines were MASSIVE. The only reason I didn't have to wait in the 4-hour line is my Star Alliance Gold status.

To credit the LH folks who actually showed up to work to do their damn jobs, they put me on a long-haul sleeper train and I got to my destination.

This experience makes me want to cross picket lines on principle.


Jesus, you stood in a long line. And you sneaked your way to the front with your little *A Gold card... Good for you. And you took a train to your destination.. Boohooo... I am glad you made it through the day without dieing from all this horrible unbearable stress.

And yeah, why throw them out of a plane, just shoot 'em up, like in the good old days!!!

Your rant after 6 ridiculously short hours of strike let me wish for a massive week long strike, just to read another mindless but entertaining rant of yours

Yes, we need more of these post as a 3rd post from members. These are really helpfull.

The solution offered however doesn't seem to be well thought thru... How can they jump out when they're not flying. Maybe the OP can find another way to rid us of those pesky workers.

And to put the FA strike in perspective: Except for an hour-long protest strike in 2009, Lufthansa flight attendants have never before taken strike action.

All I can say is the striking LH folks can jump out at cruising altitude without a parachute - hell, I'll even give 'em a little push if they have second thoughts. I was unfortunately stuck in Frankfurt on the day of the strike and the lines were MASSIVE. The only reason I didn't have to wait in the 4-hour line is my Star Alliance Gold status.

To credit the LH folks who actually showed up to work to do their damn jobs, they put me on a long-haul sleeper train and I got to my destination.

This experience makes me want to cross picket lines on principle.

I don't get this post. The flight attendants have a right to strike. My husband and two colleagues were caught up in this strike. Instead of arriving in Lyon at 1:45 p.m. on Friday, they arrived at 11 p.m. on Saturday after driving from Frankfurt. They took it in stride.

Based on this thread, there's a good chance they'll be caught up in the strike action again on Tuesday in Munich. And they'll have to deal with it, just like everybody else.

Yes, we need more of these post as a 3rd post from members. These are really helpfull.

The solution offered however doesn't seem to be well thought thru... How can they jump out when they're not flying. Maybe the OP can find another way to rid us of those pesky workers.

And to put the FA strike in perspective: Except for an hour-long protest strike in 2009, Lufthansa flight attendants have never before taken strike action.

Well said ^ Having been affected on Friday and only made it home last night I still think the FAs have a good cause. If any regular LH traveller thinks management's Direct4U and other "outsourcing" plans are good for us they are well misguided.

Jesus, you stood in a long line. And you sneaked your way to the front with your little *A Gold card... Good for you. And you took a train to your destination.. Boohooo... I am glad you made it through the day without dieing from all this horrible unbearable stress.

And yeah, why throw them out of a plane, just shoot 'em up, like in the good old days!!!

Your rant after 6 ridiculously short hours of strike let me wish for a massive week long strike, just to read another mindless but entertaining rant of yours

+1
Yes , cattlecar , why don't you complain to LH HQ and the Big Bang promotors .

Well said ^ Having been affected on Friday and only made it home last night I still think the FAs have a good cause. If any regular LH traveller thinks management's Direct4U and other "outsourcing" plans are good for us they are well misguided.

I'm already dreading the "Direct4U" consequences to come ...

And to put the FA strike in perspective
To put these things in perspective - there are many millions of people in EU who would be happy if their salary would not be cut by 10% and more during last 2-3 years, and (almost certainly) many more unfortunately will suffer such cuts in near future. Possibly even in Germany. My guess is that new laws will be necessary and inevitable forbidding strikes in all critical infrastructure including air transportation. Otherwise remnants of civilization will disintegrate too quickly among non-working computers and no electrical power (therefore no fuel for ground, air and sea transportation, no water supply and so on), with medical aid unavailable etc. Did I tell you how "nice" would be even simple all-EU strike of all IT personnel? Why not? All this is certainly just personal private thoughts and opinions.

Example...FRA-IAD on Monday.

The crew that work this flight normally come home on Tuesday.

Let's say some of the long haul flights get cancelled on Tuesday that means no plane to bring them back.

If that happens, will they just stay an extra night in Washington?

In other words, will the threat of having an unplanned extra night might them likely not to show up for work?

Would LH cancel a whole 747-800 rather than pay for an extra night of accomadation for the crew?

My guess is that new laws will be necessary and inevitable forbidding strikes in all critical infrastructure including air transportation.

Yes, Germany is riddled with ridiculous strikes.... Not really is it, most workers do realize what striking means. But sometimes it's about the only thing left.

And if it becomes really disruptive, I'm sure the German courts will step in quickly.

Still a shame though for anybody traveling, me included at the end of this week.

Let's say some of the long haul flights get cancelled on Tuesday that means no plane to bring them back.

If that happens, will they just stay an extra night in Washington?

This is exactly what will happen.

In other words, will the threat of having an unplanned extra night might them likely not to show up for work?

Would LH cancel a whole 747-800 rather than pay for an extra night of accomadation for the crew?

No to both questions.

Greetings - Dirk

To put these things in perspective - there are many millions of people in EU who would be happy if their salary would not be cut by 10% and more during last 2-3 years, and (almost certainly) many more unfortunately will suffer such cuts in near future. Possibly even in Germany. My guess is that new laws will be necessary and inevitable forbidding strikes in all critical infrastructure including air transportation. Otherwise remnants of civilization will disintegrate too quickly among non-working computers and no electrical power (therefore no fuel for ground, air and sea transportation, no water supply and so on), with medical aid unavailable etc. Did I tell you how "nice" would be even simple all-EU strike of all IT personnel? Why not? All this is certainly just personal private thoughts and opinions.

:D The end is here.

(Sorry, I now see this was already posted on page 14).

Strike actions by the Independent Flight Attendants Organization (UFO) announced for Tuesday, 4 September 2012

http://www.lufthansa.com/us/en/Travel-information?blt_p=US&blt_l=en&blt_t=Homepage&blt_e=Homepage%20-%20Hero&blt_n=Current%20travel%20information&blt_z=Further%20information

Glad I'm flying on Monday. . . will avoid LH after that flight.

To put these things in perspective - there are many millions of people in EU who would be happy if their salary would not be cut by 10% and more during last 2-3 years, and (almost certainly) many more unfortunately will suffer such cuts in near future. Possibly even in Germany. My guess is that new laws will be necessary and inevitable forbidding strikes in all critical infrastructure including air transportation. Otherwise remnants of civilization will disintegrate too quickly among non-working computers and no electrical power (therefore no fuel for ground, air and sea transportation, no water supply and so on), with medical aid unavailable etc. Did I tell you how "nice" would be even simple all-EU strike of all IT personnel? Why not? All this is certainly just personal private thoughts and opinions.

So you want the EU to become like Canada where workers have few labor rights?
Then again, I have lived in HKG and strikes are rare there despite no government intervention.

(Sorry, I now see this was already posted on page 14).

Strike actions by the Independent Flight Attendants Organization (UFO) announced for Tuesday, 4 September 2012

http://www.lufthansa.com/us/en/Travel-information?blt_p=US&blt_l=en&blt_t=Homepage&blt_e=Homepage%20-%20Hero&blt_n=Current%20travel%20information&blt_z=Further%20information

Glad I'm flying on Monday. . . will avoid LH after that flight.

I guess it is a wise decision to avoid LH for the next couple of weeks until the pay raise issue is settled or they move their HQ to Dubai and pay the same salaries as what EK is paying to their crew.

Thanks GOD I still have another FFP card with status in my wallet.

I guess it is a wise decision to avoid LH for the next couple of weeks until the pay raise issue is settled or they move their HQ to Dubai and pay the same salaries as what EK is paying to their crew.

To be clear- I don't think the salaries paid to EK crew are that much different from a net point of a view as the salaries paid to an LH crew. What is considerably different are the total costs to the company as EK crew are in a close to tax free scenario whereas European companies have social costs and contributions which can exceed 100% of salary.

Todays Handelsblatt in their print edition list the complete cash a FA gets flying LH mainline. Its pretty OK, considering you do 2-3 Longhauls a month and a 5 day europe rotation (4-5 flights a day) every second month to get your 80 hours in.

Is it a job I would like to do? No. Is LH looking to get a better deal out of their employees? Sure. Do they have the right to strike? Yes. Do you take paycuts and no bonus payments when your company doesn't do too well regardless of who screwed up in the past? Well...

Working in the tax free desert doesn't seem to be that attractive for European FAs... in the recent OS/VO dispute, the exodus of FAs and flight deck crew to EK & co didn't really happen, even though EK is certainly willing to hire FOs with a few thousand hours to fill the flight decks of its rapidly expanding fleet. The gulf carriers FAs are trimmed to the 'work hard send money home' policy well practice in the service industry of the region, so unless a European FA wants to see the world a sever most of their ties back home they are not going to work in the Gulf.

To be clear- I don't think the salaries paid to EK crew are that much different from a net point of a view as the salaries paid to an LH crew. What is considerably different are the total costs to the company as EK crew are in a close to tax free scenario whereas European companies have social costs and contributions which can exceed 100% of salary.

I would even say that the net salaries for the EK FAs are much higher than the usual european standard. Furthermore EK is also paying for the accommodation of there staff. This is something LH employees can dream about.
All in all I must admit that the gross salaries for fresh LH FAs are really very low and I can understand that they can´t accept this. But for us as flyers it is a pain to have flight cancellations.

But for us as flyers it is a pain to have flight cancellations.

Yes- indeed it is a pain. However I do respect the right of workers to strike regardless of how inconvenient it may be. I don't like it, don't agree with it- but this is their decision. Let's hope this can get worked out in a reasonable way as soon as possible.

I too do respect the right of workers to strike. However in a case like this, where the strike is not just an issue between employer and employee, but it also has immediate effect on tens of thousands of passengers, also the rights of these people should be taken into proper account, e.g. by announcing the strikes with proper notice (at least one week).

Furthermore EK is also paying for the accommodation of there staff. This is something LH employees can dream about.


Yeah. a pest free compounds in the middle of the desert !!!!

So you want the EU to become like Canada where workers have few labor rights?
Canada is very nice country. Almost any Canadian will tell you the same, and most foreign visitors as well. I think there are many things that EU could learn from Canada. What I want is - critical infrastructure up and running, not interrupted by voluntary selfish actions of some people, be them terrorists, strikers or whatever else. I mean - society as a whole has it's own rights, and small minority of some people working in critical infrastructure (including transportation) should not be able to retaliate and to cause material and moral losses to other innocent people (e.g. air passengers) who have nothing to do with these labor disputes and no way to solve them.

Then again, I have lived in HKG and strikes are rare there despite no government intervention.
HKG might be "another opera", but just as an example: Turkish Airlines will not strike anymore, at least not in a legal way, because Turkey’s parliament approved a measure banning airline workers from going on strike (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-30/turkish-parliament-bans-airline-strikes-anatolia-news-reports.html). See also 345 staff fired at Turkish Airlines (http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2001690). For me that means that flight disruptions caused by TK employees are much less probable now. Certainly I will now choose TK over LH on any suitable route with comparable ticket prices.

Yeah. a pest free compounds in the middle of the desert !!!!

It is not in the middle of the desert, it is in the middle of Dubai. The desert is not far away :-)

What I want is - critical infrastructure up and running, not interrupted by voluntary selfish actions of some people, be them terrorists, strikers or whatever else.

There are laws on strikes in critical functions.... it's just that airlines are not in that category because there's plenty of alternatives ;).
It's just another dispute in the private sector. Only when it becomes totally disruptive (or is unreasonably disruptive) will they be forbidden.

And please, not the "innocent people will be harmed" defense for something that until now is just an inconvenience.

And what we want and what we get is not always the same :-).

I too do respect the right of workers to strike. However in a case like this, where the strike is not just an issue between employer and employee, but it also has immediate effect on tens of thousands of passengers, also the rights of these people should be taken into proper account, e.g. by announcing the strikes with proper notice (at least one week).

Absolutely correct. We the passengers have to pay for it in multiple ways.
The trouble, cost for another flight and cost for more expensive tickets in the future. And we don't have something to do with the strike.

cost for more expensive tickets in the future.

What are you talking about , have you totally missed the add campaigne of the year . nonstopYou;)

Canada is very nice country. Almost any Canadian will tell you the same, and most foreign visitors as well.

Are you saying Germany is not a nice country:o

It looks like all the savings that Mr. Franz achieved as a result of service cuts towards LH customers will be passed on to the UFO members :D

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/03/uk-deutsche-lufthansa-strikes-idUSLNE88201920120903

Nice photo of Nonstopyou=Nonstop us too?

At least the union has found a good use for the new positioning line.

According to Reuters the Tuesday strike will be longer.

Well said ^ Having been affected on Friday and only made it home last night I still think the FAs have a good cause. If any regular LH traveller thinks management's Direct4U and other "outsourcing" plans are good for us they are well misguided.

I fully agree.

Still, lets hope that they will settle the dispute soon...

It looks like all the savings that Mr. Franz achieved as a result of service cuts towards LH customers will be passed on to the UFO members :D

Don´t worry, we will have to pay the difference in few weeks.
The problem is that LH is already one of the most expensive airline.

I fully agree.

Still, lets hope that they will settle the dispute soon...

+1

Putting aside all the economics/politics of striking for the moment....

It was suggested in the UA forum that I come up w/ a 'back-up' plan for my return travel on the 12th if by chance there's a strike that day.

I'm flying on Wed Sept 12th AMS-FRA on LH around 9:55am/arrival 11am & connecting to UA FRA-ORD 12:50pm, which is the last UA FRA-ORD fight of the day.

So if AMS-FRA gets canceled, what are my options, especially since the strike notice seems to be a very short one. And should I be on the phone w/ UA or LH?

There is a non-stop ORD-AMS flight, but a trade show w/ 45,000 attendees ends the day before & the Yanks will have that flight full. There are earlier flights to FRA from AMS in the morning, but if they're striking in the morning those earlier flights probably won't be going either.

Any input appreciated. Hopefully there won't be a strike, but I'd rather have a back-up plan/know what my options are if there is one.

Cheers.

Putting aside all the economics/politics of striking for the moment....

It was suggested in the UA forum that I come up w/ a 'back-up' plan for my return travel on the 12th if by chance there's a strike that day.

I'm flying on Wed Sept 12th AMS-FRA on LH around 9:55am/arrival 11am & connecting to UA FRA-ORD 12:50pm, which is the last UA FRA-ORD fight of the day.

So if AMS-FRA gets canceled, what are my options, especially since the strike notice seems to be a very short one. And should I be on the phone w/ UA or LH?

There is a non-stop ORD-AMS flight, but a trade show w/ 45,000 attendees ends the day before & the Yanks will have that flight full. There are earlier flights to FRA from AMS in the morning, but if they're striking in the morning those earlier flights probably won't be going either.

Any input appreciated. Hopefully there won't be a strike, but I'd rather have a back-up plan/know what my options are if there is one.

Cheers.

LX8 departs ZRH for ORD at 12:55. If you are able to get rerouted through ZRH this would be the best option.

Putting aside all the economics/politics of striking for the moment....

It was suggested in the UA forum that I come up w/ a 'back-up' plan for my return travel on the 12th if by chance there's a strike that day.

I'm flying on Wed Sept 12th AMS-FRA on LH around 9:55am/arrival 11am & connecting to UA FRA-ORD 12:50pm, which is the last UA FRA-ORD fight of the day.

So if AMS-FRA gets canceled, what are my options, especially since the strike notice seems to be a very short one. And should I be on the phone w/ UA or LH?

There is a non-stop ORD-AMS flight, but a trade show w/ 45,000 attendees ends the day before & the Yanks will have that flight full. There are earlier flights to FRA from AMS in the morning, but if they're striking in the morning those earlier flights probably won't be going either.

Any input appreciated. Hopefully there won't be a strike, but I'd rather have a back-up plan/know what my options are if there is one.

Cheers.
Amsterdam Centraal to FRA is 3.5 hours by train. There's a train leaving at 07:04 arriving at 10:34.

Amsterdam Centraal to FRA is 3.5 hours by train. There's a train leaving at 07:04 arriving at 10:34.

Good to know! Hopefully the AMS Schiphol-Central train station stoppage won't be occuring on the 12th (like it is on the 7th/8th).

It'd be nice if they gave night before notice. Otherwise I'm going to be up at 4-5am to try & possibly make a train. But the other question is how does it impact my ongoing ressie if I don't make that first leg?

Under the old UA I knew this stuff. Under the new UA I don't. And CO, er, UA isn't known for handling IRROPS very well.

Cheers.

Sharon, other than taking the train you could buy a oneway AMS-FRA at KLM. I just did it the other way round for this wednesday and KLM had a oneway award available with 5k miles and 38 eur in taxes. That could be a cheaper "insurance" than the train, if available for you with KL/DL... miles?

Sharon, other than taking the train you could buy a oneway AMS-FRA at KLM. I just did it the other way round for this wednesday and KLM had a oneway award available with 5k miles and 38 eur in taxes. That could be a cheaper "insurance" than the train, if available for you with KL/DL... miles?
Or if you don't have KL/DL miles a return Economy ticket for 08:20 Amsterdam - 09:30 Frankfurt/Main with a random return date can be bought for 156 EUR.

Any news on what airports will be affected tomorrow? I'm flying via MUC if all goes well...

Not known until tomorow morning. UFO will only anounce 6 hours before they strike. In the German media they are also talking MUC

Or if you don't have KL/DL miles a return Economy ticket for 08:20 Amsterdam - 09:30 Frankfurt/Main with a random return date can be bought for 156 EUR.

But that train ticket is only about €60 (or €90 for first class) and it runs each hour.... and you never know what other flights will be cancelled.

.... and you never know what other flights will be cancelled.
I don't think KL will cancel their flights to FRA in solidarityi? Unless FRA gets congested as it did on Friday.

Thanks for all the input. So I've got a couple of options - either buy a train ticket or a KL ticket. Because of the hourly & cost, I'd probably do the train in F. My only miles are on UA. Can I just go to the train station & buy a F class ticket, or does it have to be done online?

I'm assuming that I should then just head straight to the UA check-in counter at FRA and explain the outbound flight was canceled, and check in for the ongoing flights, or should I Skype call back in the middle of the night to chat w/ UA?

Anyway, I've got a bit of time, will hope the 12th isn't the next date (although if they're striking 2x/week that would be a good date for them based on this week's scheduled strikes).

Thank you my fellow FTers for your valuable input!

Cheers.

I don't think KL will cancel their flights to FRA in solidarityi? Unless FRA gets congested as it did on Friday.

I was thinking about that last part, especially if they start early.