mbflyflyaway
Aug 2, 12, 8:30 am
Our recent Amtrak adventure was scheduled to go like this - catch the train in Whitefish, MT on 7/27 at 856pm on the Empire Builder headed for Portland (via the split in Spokane) where we'd arrive around 1015am. Spend 4 hours hanging out in Portland (nice town to walk around) then catch the 225pm Coast Starlight southbound. We'd arrive Sacramento around 6am the next day, spend 5 hours exploring Old Sac and the area, then hop the California Zephyr at 1100am and enjoy the long section of our trek back to Denver where we'd arrive Monday night at 640pm. This was all booked using a one zone sleeper reservation (Family Bedroom) for my family (2 kids, aged 4 & 6, my spouse, and myself) for a measly 25,000 points. A great deal to enjoy 3+ days on the train.
Here's what actually happened.
Consistently checking the Westbound Empire Builder leading up to our departure showed arrival times all over the board with a few in the preceding week causing missed connections (so it appeared) in Portland. Those trains all left Chicago on-time, but due to various factors in Wisconsin, ND, Eastern MT, etc, almost all ended up delayed. So it was not a good sign when our train left Chicago 2.5 hours late. Ultimately, our train was 7 hours late into Whitefish, leaving that station at 4am on Saturday. Fortunately, we planned for it and got the kids some sleep before we headed out to the train station that evening. When we arrived at the station, signs were posted that the train would be terminating in Spokane and everyone would be bused to Portland or Seattle. We got on the train, slept for 4 hours, then got off in Spokane with everyone else.
First true complaint - the organization of the situation in Spokane was unbelievable. Considering they had at least 7 hours to prepare for the situation, I've never seen anything in such disarray. There were 4 busses sitting outside the station. None clearly marked (though I did notice a tiny "Seattle Express" sign on one bus). I asked one bus driver where he was going and he said Pasco, WA and Klamath Falls, OR. We finally saw an Amtrak conductor standing among the masses and noticed that anytime anyone approached him, he was rude and dismissive. Having no other choice I approached him and he said we should get on one of the Portland busses which wouldn't arrive until the 2 Seattle busses left. Having done the math at this point, it seemed to me that if we had caught a bus to Portland as soon as we got off of the train, we might have made the connection to the Coast Starlight, however after standing around for an hour while they sorted out just the Seattle passengers (who likely had no other connections), it was clear we probably wouldn't make that connection, even on the bus. Eventually another Amtrak Conductor showed up and he was much more pleasant. When I asked him the same question, he said we'd need to take the bus to Klamath Falls, OR to ensure we'd catch the Coast Starlight (which doesn't arrive there until 10pm). We stopped asking questions and got on the Pasco/Klamath Falls bus, hoping our 5 pieces of checked luggage (including 2 car seats) magically made it onto our bus.
Eventually, the Seattle busses departed (but not until after they finally got the first one started - it was having some issues), and 2 more busses rolled into their spot, I can only assume headed to Portland. Our bus (as well as another in front of us) was sitting just across from the station entrance. Again, why they didn't have the Portland busses lined up first so folks could make their original connections is beyond me. Ironically, one of the Portland busses departed just before we did. I checked the distance on my phone and informed my family to settle in for what looked like a 10+ hour bus ride to Klamath Falls, OR. We finally departed from the station and at about 945am one of the two drivers handed out boxed lunches from Subway. A nice touch, but essentially that was breakfast for everyone. We dropped off about half of our passengers at the Pasco Amtrak station, stretched our legs, and continued.
The bus only had about 15 passengers headed onto Klamath Falls. One nice diversion was as we crossed the Columbia river in Pasco (tri-cities) it turned out there was an air show happening over the river. The kids loved it as the timing was great and we saw a stunt plane doing all sorts of neat tricks over the river. It looked very busy along the banks of the river - an annual event in the area. We continued into Oregon, down I-84 to Biggs Junction (or something like that) where we stopped at a truck/travel plaza at about 130pm. We got some McDonald's and snacks for the rest of the journey.
Then, we stopped again in Bend, OR for dinner. The drivers informed us that in the past, busses had dropped people off at the Klamath Falls Amtrak station well before the train arrived and the station was closed. This was frowned upon due to the sometimes excessive heat that can happen in summer in Southern Oregon. So now they "take their time" getting there to ensure the station is open (which happens at 830pm). So for our dinner stop, they polled the bus - fast food or sit down...it was split so we parked in a McDonald's parking lot across from some chain restaurants for a one hour dinner stop at 5:30pm. The family and I crossed the street and ate at Outback (me assuming I can get Amtrak to pay for it later). At 6:30 we continued.
We hit Upper Klamath Lake (a very large lake to the North and West of Klamath Falls) just as the sun was setting which made for a beautiful trek down the East shore of the lake, though I pined for doing the same trek on the train tracks that ran between the road and the lake...although it would be dark before the train was on this same stretch. We rolled into the Amtrak station at about 845pm. It wasn't until this time that we actually confirmed that our bags made it onto the bus. We saw them unload the bags to then be put onto the train...ironically, they unloaded another car seat, yet our kids were the only ones on the bus. We developed a concern that due to the confusion in Spokane, perhaps another family (and/or others?) got on the Portland bus...we'll never know.
Our train promptly arrived at about 1015pm and we embarked for another, very short, ride, this time to Sacramento. We spent our entire 6 hours sleeping on this train as well. 2 days into our journey and not one meal had been had by my family on a train...nor had we even left our bedroom.
Arriving early into Sacramento as the Starlight typically does, meant 5+ hours of droopy-eyed time milling about Old Sac after breakfast at a nearby diner. Not really complaining about this one, the only issue was that we were more tired than normal due to the lack of a good night's rest (especially our kids). At 1030am, we headed back to the station and caught the California Zephyr on time for our last leg back to Denver. The train ran smoothly and on time until we got to the mountains when rain and hail caused a few minor delays. Nothing to complain about - we arrived less than an hour late into Denver at about 730pm Monday night.
This isn't the first train trip we've taken as a family, I'd consider us pretty well travelled on the train considering where we live (Denver area), however this was the first time we've encountered delays significant enough to cause us to miss a connection. Amtrak agents in both Whitefish, Klamath Falls, and conductors on board the trains all suggested we contact customer relations at Amtrak for compensation...one indicating they should refund the portion of the trip that we did not get in our sleeper car. Of course this was a reward trip and I will say this - we NEVER pay for our train travel with $. I always use points since it's such a good deal - typically from my Diners Club or from the Amtrak credit card. I was a little concerned that a travel voucher wouldn't be worth much to us since we don't take the train all that often - we've done probably less than one train trip a year, however when we do it, it's typically one "worth" a fair amount of money. This trip, for instance, when I priced it originally, I believe was around $2500 for the 3 nights in the Family Bedroom. Now, in my opinion, essentially 2/3rds of our trip was "ruined" or affected by the initial delay. We had about 4 hours on the first train (scheduled time ~13 hours) and 7.5 hours on the second train (scheduled time ~17 hours) and we spent the full 32 hours on the last train. The problem of course was that our short times on the first trains essentially ruined the first 2 days of our trip. No time to explore the train, no time to enjoy meals in the diner car, no time to shower, no time to sit in the lounge, and 10+ hours spent on a bus instead. Plus we had about $50 in meal expenses on our bus trip. What I would love from Amtrak is a credit of some of the points we used to book the trip. We spent 25,000 points...I'm thinking perhaps half back is a fair number...what do my fellow seasoned Amtrak travelers think?
Well, as I was writing this up, I was also on hold to talk to customer relations (35 minutes until I got to someone in that department). After explaining the situation to the pleasant lady on the phone, her first offer was a travel voucher for $800 due to the time missed on the first train. When I explained that we also missed time on our second train as well as meals I had to pay, it sounded like she added $300 for the next train and $50 for the meals (I never told her how much I spent on meals, but coincidentally it was the same amount). So the total offer stood at $1150 in the form of a travel voucher that I have one year to use. Normally, I feel that may be an acceptable offer, however as I mentioned, we don't travel all that often on the train, and when we do, it's always via points. When I asked her if there was any way I could get some points back instead, she said for one, it was not her department and for two, if I asked the guest rewards folks, they would open a complaint and send me right back to customer relations for compensation (who would of course offer the dollar off vouchers). Do you think this is acceptable?
She said that my only other option is to write to corporate and explain the situation and seeing what they may offer. She said if they "reject" my request, they have tied the $1150 offer to the complaint/reservation so I can always fall back on that. I think this is my best route at this point. Again, I'm not trying to sound like someone who is entitled to anything above and beyond - I think the $1150 offer is fairly gracious (although hearing her figure out the dollar amount sounded somewhat arbitrary, especially when I mentioned the fact that she missed one train), however since I spent points, I'd prefer points as my compensation. Again, I ask, what do you fine folks think?
Fortunately, the last leg of the trip was the longest and the smoothest, leaving a relatively positive feeling with me and my family. Our attendant was above average, the meals were as expected, and the views of course awesome. I understand delays happen with Amtrak and we plan for it going in...of course it was unfortunate that our delay was so long that we missed our connection, however I still believe that had they planned better in Spokane, the delays could have been minimized further. This adventure won't cause us to never take the train again...we love it and will continue to burn points while the kids still fit in the little bunks in the family bedroom, however we don't have plans for another train trip within a year.
Sorry for the long and detailed report, but I tried to get in all the facts and hope that our situation may help those in the future. But first, I ask for input from the flyertalk community...am I insane for wanting points back instead of $$$? I'm thinking about using this trip report as my letter to Amtrak (with some tweaks of course) - is it too much to share with them? Thanks again in advance!
-Mike
Here's what actually happened.
Consistently checking the Westbound Empire Builder leading up to our departure showed arrival times all over the board with a few in the preceding week causing missed connections (so it appeared) in Portland. Those trains all left Chicago on-time, but due to various factors in Wisconsin, ND, Eastern MT, etc, almost all ended up delayed. So it was not a good sign when our train left Chicago 2.5 hours late. Ultimately, our train was 7 hours late into Whitefish, leaving that station at 4am on Saturday. Fortunately, we planned for it and got the kids some sleep before we headed out to the train station that evening. When we arrived at the station, signs were posted that the train would be terminating in Spokane and everyone would be bused to Portland or Seattle. We got on the train, slept for 4 hours, then got off in Spokane with everyone else.
First true complaint - the organization of the situation in Spokane was unbelievable. Considering they had at least 7 hours to prepare for the situation, I've never seen anything in such disarray. There were 4 busses sitting outside the station. None clearly marked (though I did notice a tiny "Seattle Express" sign on one bus). I asked one bus driver where he was going and he said Pasco, WA and Klamath Falls, OR. We finally saw an Amtrak conductor standing among the masses and noticed that anytime anyone approached him, he was rude and dismissive. Having no other choice I approached him and he said we should get on one of the Portland busses which wouldn't arrive until the 2 Seattle busses left. Having done the math at this point, it seemed to me that if we had caught a bus to Portland as soon as we got off of the train, we might have made the connection to the Coast Starlight, however after standing around for an hour while they sorted out just the Seattle passengers (who likely had no other connections), it was clear we probably wouldn't make that connection, even on the bus. Eventually another Amtrak Conductor showed up and he was much more pleasant. When I asked him the same question, he said we'd need to take the bus to Klamath Falls, OR to ensure we'd catch the Coast Starlight (which doesn't arrive there until 10pm). We stopped asking questions and got on the Pasco/Klamath Falls bus, hoping our 5 pieces of checked luggage (including 2 car seats) magically made it onto our bus.
Eventually, the Seattle busses departed (but not until after they finally got the first one started - it was having some issues), and 2 more busses rolled into their spot, I can only assume headed to Portland. Our bus (as well as another in front of us) was sitting just across from the station entrance. Again, why they didn't have the Portland busses lined up first so folks could make their original connections is beyond me. Ironically, one of the Portland busses departed just before we did. I checked the distance on my phone and informed my family to settle in for what looked like a 10+ hour bus ride to Klamath Falls, OR. We finally departed from the station and at about 945am one of the two drivers handed out boxed lunches from Subway. A nice touch, but essentially that was breakfast for everyone. We dropped off about half of our passengers at the Pasco Amtrak station, stretched our legs, and continued.
The bus only had about 15 passengers headed onto Klamath Falls. One nice diversion was as we crossed the Columbia river in Pasco (tri-cities) it turned out there was an air show happening over the river. The kids loved it as the timing was great and we saw a stunt plane doing all sorts of neat tricks over the river. It looked very busy along the banks of the river - an annual event in the area. We continued into Oregon, down I-84 to Biggs Junction (or something like that) where we stopped at a truck/travel plaza at about 130pm. We got some McDonald's and snacks for the rest of the journey.
Then, we stopped again in Bend, OR for dinner. The drivers informed us that in the past, busses had dropped people off at the Klamath Falls Amtrak station well before the train arrived and the station was closed. This was frowned upon due to the sometimes excessive heat that can happen in summer in Southern Oregon. So now they "take their time" getting there to ensure the station is open (which happens at 830pm). So for our dinner stop, they polled the bus - fast food or sit down...it was split so we parked in a McDonald's parking lot across from some chain restaurants for a one hour dinner stop at 5:30pm. The family and I crossed the street and ate at Outback (me assuming I can get Amtrak to pay for it later). At 6:30 we continued.
We hit Upper Klamath Lake (a very large lake to the North and West of Klamath Falls) just as the sun was setting which made for a beautiful trek down the East shore of the lake, though I pined for doing the same trek on the train tracks that ran between the road and the lake...although it would be dark before the train was on this same stretch. We rolled into the Amtrak station at about 845pm. It wasn't until this time that we actually confirmed that our bags made it onto the bus. We saw them unload the bags to then be put onto the train...ironically, they unloaded another car seat, yet our kids were the only ones on the bus. We developed a concern that due to the confusion in Spokane, perhaps another family (and/or others?) got on the Portland bus...we'll never know.
Our train promptly arrived at about 1015pm and we embarked for another, very short, ride, this time to Sacramento. We spent our entire 6 hours sleeping on this train as well. 2 days into our journey and not one meal had been had by my family on a train...nor had we even left our bedroom.
Arriving early into Sacramento as the Starlight typically does, meant 5+ hours of droopy-eyed time milling about Old Sac after breakfast at a nearby diner. Not really complaining about this one, the only issue was that we were more tired than normal due to the lack of a good night's rest (especially our kids). At 1030am, we headed back to the station and caught the California Zephyr on time for our last leg back to Denver. The train ran smoothly and on time until we got to the mountains when rain and hail caused a few minor delays. Nothing to complain about - we arrived less than an hour late into Denver at about 730pm Monday night.
This isn't the first train trip we've taken as a family, I'd consider us pretty well travelled on the train considering where we live (Denver area), however this was the first time we've encountered delays significant enough to cause us to miss a connection. Amtrak agents in both Whitefish, Klamath Falls, and conductors on board the trains all suggested we contact customer relations at Amtrak for compensation...one indicating they should refund the portion of the trip that we did not get in our sleeper car. Of course this was a reward trip and I will say this - we NEVER pay for our train travel with $. I always use points since it's such a good deal - typically from my Diners Club or from the Amtrak credit card. I was a little concerned that a travel voucher wouldn't be worth much to us since we don't take the train all that often - we've done probably less than one train trip a year, however when we do it, it's typically one "worth" a fair amount of money. This trip, for instance, when I priced it originally, I believe was around $2500 for the 3 nights in the Family Bedroom. Now, in my opinion, essentially 2/3rds of our trip was "ruined" or affected by the initial delay. We had about 4 hours on the first train (scheduled time ~13 hours) and 7.5 hours on the second train (scheduled time ~17 hours) and we spent the full 32 hours on the last train. The problem of course was that our short times on the first trains essentially ruined the first 2 days of our trip. No time to explore the train, no time to enjoy meals in the diner car, no time to shower, no time to sit in the lounge, and 10+ hours spent on a bus instead. Plus we had about $50 in meal expenses on our bus trip. What I would love from Amtrak is a credit of some of the points we used to book the trip. We spent 25,000 points...I'm thinking perhaps half back is a fair number...what do my fellow seasoned Amtrak travelers think?
Well, as I was writing this up, I was also on hold to talk to customer relations (35 minutes until I got to someone in that department). After explaining the situation to the pleasant lady on the phone, her first offer was a travel voucher for $800 due to the time missed on the first train. When I explained that we also missed time on our second train as well as meals I had to pay, it sounded like she added $300 for the next train and $50 for the meals (I never told her how much I spent on meals, but coincidentally it was the same amount). So the total offer stood at $1150 in the form of a travel voucher that I have one year to use. Normally, I feel that may be an acceptable offer, however as I mentioned, we don't travel all that often on the train, and when we do, it's always via points. When I asked her if there was any way I could get some points back instead, she said for one, it was not her department and for two, if I asked the guest rewards folks, they would open a complaint and send me right back to customer relations for compensation (who would of course offer the dollar off vouchers). Do you think this is acceptable?
She said that my only other option is to write to corporate and explain the situation and seeing what they may offer. She said if they "reject" my request, they have tied the $1150 offer to the complaint/reservation so I can always fall back on that. I think this is my best route at this point. Again, I'm not trying to sound like someone who is entitled to anything above and beyond - I think the $1150 offer is fairly gracious (although hearing her figure out the dollar amount sounded somewhat arbitrary, especially when I mentioned the fact that she missed one train), however since I spent points, I'd prefer points as my compensation. Again, I ask, what do you fine folks think?
Fortunately, the last leg of the trip was the longest and the smoothest, leaving a relatively positive feeling with me and my family. Our attendant was above average, the meals were as expected, and the views of course awesome. I understand delays happen with Amtrak and we plan for it going in...of course it was unfortunate that our delay was so long that we missed our connection, however I still believe that had they planned better in Spokane, the delays could have been minimized further. This adventure won't cause us to never take the train again...we love it and will continue to burn points while the kids still fit in the little bunks in the family bedroom, however we don't have plans for another train trip within a year.
Sorry for the long and detailed report, but I tried to get in all the facts and hope that our situation may help those in the future. But first, I ask for input from the flyertalk community...am I insane for wanting points back instead of $$$? I'm thinking about using this trip report as my letter to Amtrak (with some tweaks of course) - is it too much to share with them? Thanks again in advance!
-Mike