Online Travel Booking and Bidding Agencies - Priceline versus traditional bookings (direct with hotel companies - Hyatt)

As someone who booked a lengthy stay via an online agency at a Hyatt at the same rate/rate type as that being offered by the hotel direct and who has had Hyatt refuse (for reasons yet to be understood) to acknowledge their stay for Gold Passport credit - a refusal that seems to be supported by loyal Hyatt GP members without clear reasons why - I have a few questions arising out of this thread that I hope can be answered by those that have contributed so far:

1. Some people clearly perceive a Priceline booking to be somehow inferior to bookings made with a hotel direct. Why?

2. Do those that consider a Priceline booking to be somehow inferior extend this view to any booking made on any online or other agency - e.g. Expedia? If so, why?

3. Do people think that the manner in which a room is booked (i.e. whether or not with the hotel direct or via a 3rd party), should be the key factor in determining how someone should be treated? If so, why?

4. Do people think that the price paid for the room however booked (i.e. whether or not with the hotel direct or via a 3rd party), should be the key factor in determining how someone should be treated? If so, why?

5. Do people think that GP (or any hotel program) status should be the key factor in determining how someone is treated, even if that means being overly fair to the GP member and seriously inconveniencing/breaching a contract with a non-GP/lower status GP member? If so, why?

6. Does the answer to 5. change if the GP member got their status through a "loophole" as has been referred to in the thread/other offer (e.g. status match); i.e. that they took advantage of a legitimate "offer" that has put them into the position that now trumps the other traveller? If not why not?

These is not all the questions I have, but a good start...

Ultimately, the tenor of a lot of the comments on this thread is that the bumped guest only has himself to blame for booking on Priceline, paying a much lower price than the hotel was offering for the same room, and not having achieved an elite status in the relevant hotel's loyalty program.

Have we really gotten to the stage now where people truly believe that a person's status in the world/expectation to be treated correctly/fairly and have contract terms adhered to, depends on whether or not he (sensibly) chooses to go for a legitimate deal on offer to him rather than to pay an unjustifiably elevated price, and/or because he hasn't had the opportunity yet to achieve a status that others with it - including the person that was favoured over him - may not themselves have earned through point earning but rather via an offer that they (sensibly) took up; see the reference to earning status through "loopholes")?

I stayed at a fabulous new 5* resort in June that had reduced its rates by one third to attract occupancy. It was good value for money at those rates. Those of us who took advantage of those rates all raved about the hotel. In contrast, those that have so far stayed there in July at the "normal rates" are posting far more subdued reviews, rating the hotel highly but "not worth the price paid". I'd agree if I'd paid the rates they were paying. Seemingly so would the hotel manager who admitted to us in conversation that the rates we were paying were "much more honest".

Go figure...

As someone who booked a lengthy stay via an online agency at a Hyatt at the same rate/rate type as that being offered by the hotel direct and who has had Hyatt refuse (for reasons yet to be understood) to acknowledge their stay for Gold Passport credit

Why do you book via an 'online agency' in the first place, if the rate is the same?

Does not make any sense ... :confused::confused:

FD1971

We aren't of course, all from the same country so perhaps that's why it doesn't make sense to you.

Where I'm from, there's all sorts of advantages to booking via an online or other travel agency, ranging from added travel protection (supplementing travel insurance) to valuable add ons and a few things in-between. So if all else is equal (which in my view of the GP T&C, it was - still is - in the situation I refer to), then it'd make no sense to do anything but book with the online or other agency. If I didn't, you'd be asking me why I didn't, saying it made no sense....

Now that I've answered you, any chance of you answering me? Your reply suggests that you do see a booking via an agency as somehow inferior to a direct hotel booking. If I'm right, then why so?

As you can read on this thread, there are those that would not touch PL. This was a first time PL user so that would be bad enough. Toss in the wife and it is easy to see how panic and over reaction played into the mix.

Bad form, almost criminal for the hotel to impose a downgrade to a PL customer. On a PL reservation, I was walked once. From LAX 4 Points to a nearby 4 star hotel at 10 PM. Walked once when booking thru SPG and it was not pleasant. Check-in at 4 PM Pleasanton Sheraton and walked to a far off B&B. Why walk a plat at 4PM and ship him so far away? Not cool.

Perplexed.....this might not be the right place to ask your list of questions.

Perplexed.....this might not be the right place to ask your list of questions.

Agreed - and that is why the question (and responses are moved over to "Online Travel Booking and Bidding Agencies" Forum.

peteropny - co-mod - Hyatt

This is interesting. A second time my questions on an existing thread have been moved to start a new one. A pretty good record since I've only been a member of this forum for less than a week and have only contributed to two threads!

And based on my experiences so far, that's the death knell. I've yet to get a specific reply to any of my specific questions on either new thread. The previous thriving activity screeches to a sudden halt.

I find that interesting too. Why is everyone seemingly so engaged but actually disengaged? Why are so many so critical of what others do yet unable or unwilling to explain why? Why are so many so seemingly accepting and supportive of what hotels do but once again, unable or unwilling to explain why?

Hence I continue perplexed....

PL NYOP is hardly an inferior way to book for the vast majority that get their hotel rooms this way. I and many others have bid and won and been upgraded.

And most of us have saved a ton of money while doing so.

One I know was upgraded to a suite in a 5 star hotel.

Most that complain about PL NYOP have not done their homework. Many have bid blind and clueless.

You go through a 3 rd party and you might not get your points. You do not get points for a loyalty program when you use NYOP.

Of course status in a chain should account for how you are treated. And this from someone who does not have status.

Loyalty and lots of stays should count more than my infrequent stays.

Now I will say that demanding answers here is not the way to go. Nor is a long book full of questions.

If your posts are being moved then I think that says a lot about your posts.

Most of us have never had that happen.

All due respect to the OP, but it strikes me that the reason only a few people have responded to your queries is that the answers are obvious.

In a perfect world, no one would be walked and every guest, no matter how they procured their reservation, would receive the same, hopefully, excellent service. Thing is, high revenue customers, like it or not, are viewed as primus inter pares in the hotel business. This fact should not come as a surprise to anyone.

If a front desk or rooms manager has to decide between walking a high revenue customer and a Priceline customer the choice is pretty clear. Better to disappoint the Priceline customer than to potentially cost your business the loss of a long time or high revenue customer. That said, the correct way to handle the situation is to move the affected person(s) to a hotel of the same or higher calibre.

1. Some people clearly perceive a Priceline booking to be somehow inferior to bookings made with a hotel direct. Why?


Because, at some properties, it is inferior. You may not get points and stay credit, you can't choose your room type or bedding, etc.



2. Do those that consider a Priceline booking to be somehow inferior extend this view to any booking made on any online or other agency - e.g. Expedia? If so, why?


If treated differently than with a direct booking, in a way I'm not happy with, then yes, I would feel the same way.





3. Do people think that the manner in which a room is booked (i.e. whether or not with the hotel direct or via a 3rd party), should be the key factor in determining how someone should be treated? If so, why?



There is no key factor, it's a combination of things. Status, rate paid, where booked, room booked, number of previous visits, number of potential future visits, etc.



4. Do people think that the price paid for the room however booked (i.e. whether or not with the hotel direct or via a 3rd party), should be the key factor in determining how someone should be treated? If so, why?


Since the hotel can't see the price you paid on priceline and many other sites, that would not be a good indicatinon to them on how to treat you.


5. Do people think that GP (or any hotel program) status should be the key factor in determining how someone is treated, even if that means being overly fair to the GP member and seriously inconveniencing/breaching a contract with a non-GP/lower status GP member? If so, why?



No, the hotels all have complex ways of saying how people should be treated based on status, route of the reservation, price paid, previous visits, etc. There's not really anything wrong with that system once you figure it out. A first time super gold premium diamond (with the giraffe) first time visitor may or may not deserve better treatment than a weekly customer who will be bringing business to your place time and time again.



6. Does the answer to 5. change if the GP member got their status through a "loophole" as has been referred to in the thread/other offer (e.g. status match); i.e. that they took advantage of a legitimate "offer" that has put them into the position that now trumps the other traveller? If not why not?



Status is status. It doesn't matter how they got it, the hotel is offering them the benefits of that level, period.

What you haven't been clear on is whether you booked through Priceline's transparent side or the opaque "Name Your Own Price" service.

If you booked the specific hotel on Priceline's website, presumably paying the same price as on Hyatt's website, you should be treated like any other guest. Period. You are just using Priceline as a travel agency.

If you use the NYOP function, you are subject to special terms and conditions. I know you do not get points, and I know they guaranteed beds for two but not a specific bedding type. I don't know if they are required to honor status perks. You are certainly guaranteed only their base room, although sometimes you can upgrade for cash. It's a low-cost but no-frills product. That doesn't mean you should get inferior service, like not getting your bedding changed or getting a noisy toilet fixed.

You said you "paid the same price" as the Hyatt site. I have to be honest, I've never been totally clear on the price guarantee for NYOP. I know that one time I bid for a hotel in Vegas, and when I won, I found a better promotional rate on the hotel's website. Priceline gave me some kind of discount, I think to where I was paying 20% less than the hotel website rate. I have had times I've saved as little as $2-3 a room, but mostly my savings have been much better. I don't know what would happen if you bid $500 for a hotel in a zone that has only 2-star hotels that have a street rate of $60. If you simply bid too much on NYOP and somehow got discounted down to the street rate but with the NYOP conditions, it might be your fault for not bidding effectively.

Anyway it's not really possible to answer without knowing how you booked the hotel.

1. Some people clearly perceive a Priceline booking to be somehow inferior to bookings made with a hotel direct. Why?

It is inferior in that you do not get bedding choices and usually do not get your loyalty points and often do not get status benefits.

2. Do those that consider a Priceline booking to be somehow inferior extend this view to any booking made on any online or other agency - e.g. Expedia? If so, why?

Depending on the loyalty program, you may still not get your loyalty points or your status perks if you book via a third party site. However, you do get the option to choose your bedding/room type.

3. Do people think that the manner in which a room is booked (i.e. whether or not with the hotel direct or via a 3rd party), should be the key factor in determining how someone should be treated? If so, why?

In some ways, yes. Most hotels want to reward their loyal customers. Using Priceline/Hotwire's opaque features means you are willing to accept any hotel in the area/star level that is willing to accept your bid. You are not loyal to the brand or the hotel, you are loyal to your price. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. I am willing to give that up to get the lower price.

4. Do people think that the price paid for the room however booked (i.e. whether or not with the hotel direct or via a 3rd party), should be the key factor in determining how someone should be treated? If so, why?

Of course, every guest should be treated with a minimum level of respect and dignity. However, I honestly expect that someone who is paying $700 a night for a room might get better service than me who is paying $70 a night for a basic room. However, I can honestly say that in my hundreds of priceline/hotwire stays over the years, not ONCE have I felt slighted, gotten a substandard room, or been treated different due to the rate paid. In all honesty, most of the staff you run into have no idea what you paid or that you even used priceline/hotwire.

5. Do people think that GP (or any hotel program) status should be the key factor in determining how someone is treated, even if that means being overly fair to the GP member and seriously inconveniencing/breaching a contract with a non-GP/lower status GP member? If so, why?

We all get inconvenienced, that is a fact of travelling. Every hotel/airline has a pecking order... and sometimes have to take decisions we might not like during oversell situations. Someone is not going to be happy. I honestly cannot fault a company for choosing to walk me at my cheap rate when the only option would be to walk a loyal diamond member.

6. Does the answer to 5. change if the GP member got their status through a "loophole" as has been referred to in the thread/other offer (e.g. status match); i.e. that they took advantage of a legitimate "offer" that has put them into the position that now trumps the other traveller? If not why not?

Status is status. I do not care how someone got their status... and, in all honesty, the hotel staff usually does not know "how" you got your status. Why should it matter? The individual followed the rules/guidelines of the company and got the status.

Thanks redtop43.

It's great to finally get a non-emotive/non-judgmental helpful sensible reply...

In answer, I didn't actually use Priceline for the booking. At least not directly - I know Priceline is the parent company of other on-line booking agencies.

I booked the stay via Thomas Cook. I used its search facility to find hotel availability, chose the hotel I wanted, chose the rate I wanted and booked/paid for the stay. The rate was an advance purchase rate. I was referred to the hotel's cancellation policy for the rate T&C.

Hyatt's own site threw up the exact same rate; same description and same T&C.

I totally agree with you that I should be treated like any other guest and I was, save that the hotel refused and continues to refuse to give me Gold Passport credit.

This is also notwithstanding the fact that (1) I booked the same room type at the same hotel in the same way in the 12 months before that stay and did receive GP credit, and (2) in that time, booked a room for a stay at another Hyatt property in the same way and received GP credit for that stay too.

After the event however (i.e. following the booking and stay under discussion) Hyatt has apparently noticed its errors with the first two bookings (that I do not agree are errors based on the GP T&C), hence their credit refusal.

And in any event, it seems to me that even of they are right, they should play fair and credit this last stay given I relied (at least in part, because I also relied on the GP T&C) on their previous errors - that only came to light after I completed the latest stay - when making the booking.

I however, seem to be alone in seeing the wrong/unfairness of the situation, an unfairness and wrong I see also in the adverse/critical comments that have been made about Priceline bookings with the clear intended implication of those comments being that those sensibly choosing to use Priceline when significant savings can be made, somehow exercised an at best wrong judgment and have only themselves to blame.

There is no glory in paying more when you do not need to and when there is no perceivable advantage to doing so, just as there is no glory in being a member of a program anyone can join/progress in, sometimes only by using "loopholes".

And it also seems to me that many are critical (in my view unfairly) of those who choose to take advantage of a room price deal on a third party website that a hotel has chosen to be affiliated with, but not critical of those who took advantage of a deal that got them a "status" that they lord over those others or critical of the hotels who also look down on them.

Seems however, that some don't like those of us who dare question or challenge right and wrong/fairness and unfairness and those that make adverse/critical comments. I will always question and challenge, and I will do that of myself and others. It's good to take some time to think once and a while, rather than to simply react on preconceived ideas. Even the apparently obvious answers are not always obvious - or right - as the contradictory responses to my apparently inappropriate post show.

3recondoc - although I fail to see where my purported demands were made, you are absolutely right to imply my posts say a lot about me. The serial moving of my posts also says a lot...

and cordelli, all other things being equal (as they often are; i.e. the T&C do not distinguish between them), if it is perceived by all that status however obtained is status, why isn't a paid room booking however purchased a paid room booking (forget point earning in this regard)? Both have a contractual basis that one should be able to expect will be honoured and I do not recall (although I have personally never used Priceline) having pre-purchased a room with the condition imposed that the pre-purchase may not be final/guarantee me a room.

One big difference can be the commissions and fees that the hotel pays for the booking services. When you contact the hotel directly, there is no charge to the hotel, although of course it incurs the cost of processing your reservation. If you go through Hyatt GP, the hotel pays something, but this might be different from the commission to a regular brick and mortar or online travel agency. PL NYOP charges fees to the hotel, so that your prepaid price is certainly not what the hotel is paid for your room. In the OP's case, there may have been commissions and fees paid both to Thomas Cook and Priceline, although perhaps Priceline just passed some of its money on to Thomas Cook for the referral. (However, if it were me, I would be upset to learn that a booking that I believed was being made by Thomas Cook was actually funneled through Priceline, partly because this creates a mess if there is a problem: who do you blame and who is responsible for fixing the problem? Also, does Priceline then impose stricter rules on the booking which might not have been revealed before you committed?)

One big difference can be the commissions and fees that the hotel pays for the booking services. When you contact the hotel directly, there is no charge to the hotel, ...: who do you blame and who is responsible for fixing the problem? Also, does Priceline then impose stricter rules on the booking which might not have been revealed before you committed?)
All this speculation is not what a desk clerk deals with. If you have a reservation, you get a room. Priceline-booked guests are to be treated as valued customers. Priceline is the largest travel agency and getting business from them is essential. The following is all you need to know
http://www.utellportal.com/Marketing/priceline/

I totally agree with you that I should be treated like any other guest and I was, save that the hotel refused and continues to refuse to give me Gold Passport credit.

This is also notwithstanding the fact that (1) I booked the same room type at the same hotel in the same way in the 12 months before that stay and did receive GP credit, and (2) in that time, booked a room for a stay at another Hyatt property in the same way and received GP credit for that stay too.

After the event however (i.e. following the booking and stay under discussion) Hyatt has apparently noticed its errors with the first two bookings (that I do not agree are errors based on the GP T&C), hence their credit refusal.

And in any event, it seems to me that even of they are right, they should play fair and credit this last stay given I relied (at least in part, because I also relied on the GP T&C) on their previous errors - that only came to light after I completed the latest stay - when making the booking.


I don't think relying on their previous errors is a good indication of future expectations. Their T&Cs for Gold Passport defines "inelligble rates" and specifically calls out third party booking sites as being inelligible for earning points.

Thanks for these thoughts.

However, I did not rely on past errors as a good indication of future expectation.

When I booked and paid for the stay under discussion, I had no idea of Hyatt's purported errors. I still had no idea of them when I arrived at the hotel. I only found out about them after[U] my stay was completed and I noticed I had not been credited with the stay. When I queried this, I was told that [U]all 3rd party bookings are ineligible for credit and when I pointed out that my two previous 3rd party booked stays - one at the same hotel and the other at another - had been credited, Hyatt "found" and told me about the mistakes. They have said they will make an allowance for those first two credited stays but refuse - without reason - to do the same for the stay under discussion. Why?

If I had known the first two stays were credited in error, I would not have booked in the same way if I had wanted to be sure of getting credit. I am not looking to cheat myself into getting credit where credit is not due.

I did not however know they were errors and did not even suspect they were because on my reading of the GP T&C (including the definitions of eligible and ineligible rates), it is not a blanket rule that all 3rd party bookings will not earn credit. Ineligible rates are defined as "discount rates" found on, among other sites, 3rd party sights. I did not pay a discount rate. I paid a hotel published rate - the rate that the T&C define as an eligible rate, wherever found. I paid the rate personally (the T&C do not require the rate to be paid direct to Hyatt, but simply that I pay it) and I was the registered guest.

So my view is/remains that (1) I have complied with the T&C and am entitled to the stay credit, and (2) even if I am wrong (and I keep asking without success to be shown - with specific reference to the T&C - why/how I am wrong), since Hyatt is acknowledging by making allowances for the first two stays that it contributed to this by making its errors, why treat this last stay any differently? At the very least, that isn't fair...

croberts134 - Can you help by showing/explaining to me where the T&C say [U]all[U] third party bookings are ineligible?

Thanks for these thoughts.

However, I did not rely on past errors as a good indication of future expectation.

When I booked and paid for the stay under discussion, I had no idea of Hyatt's purported errors. I still had no idea of them when I arrived at the hotel. I only found out about them after[U] my stay was completed and I noticed I had not been credited with the stay. When I queried this, I was told that [U]all 3rd party bookings are ineligible for credit and when I pointed out that my two previous 3rd party booked stays - one at the same hotel and the other at another - had been credited, Hyatt "found" and told me about the mistakes. They have said they will make an allowance for those first two credited stays but refuse - without reason - to do the same for the stay under discussion. Why?

If I had known the first two stays were credited in error, I would not have booked in the same way if I had wanted to be sure of getting credit. I am not looking to cheat myself into getting credit where credit is not due.

I did not however know they were errors and did not even suspect they were because on my reading of the GP T&C (including the definitions of eligible and ineligible rates), it is not a blanket rule that all 3rd party bookings will not earn credit. Ineligible rates are defined as "discount rates" found on, among other sites, 3rd party sights. I did not pay a discount rate. I paid a hotel published rate - the rate that the T&C define as an eligible rate, wherever found. I paid the rate personally (the T&C do not require the rate to be paid direct to Hyatt, but simply that I pay it) and I was the registered guest.

So my view is/remains that (1) I have complied with the T&C and am entitled to the stay credit, and (2) even if I am wrong (and I keep asking without success to be shown - with specific reference to the T&C - why/how I am wrong), since Hyatt is acknowledging by making allowances for the first two stays that it contributed to this by making its errors, why treat this last stay any differently? At the very least, that isn't fair...

croberts134 - Can you help by showing/explaining to me where the T&C say [U]all[U] third party bookings are ineligible?

I agree that the definition of "Ineligible rate" leaves something to be desired. I can think of two third party rates which are eligible for stay/point credit: Amex FHR rates; and Virtuoso rates (both of these rates are generally close to rack rates) Bottom line - Hyatt decides which third party rates are eligible for stay/point credits.

IMO Hyatt has been more than fair in giving you stay/point credits on two stays which appear, according to their terms and conditions to be "Ineligible". The reason they would not continue to do is that they do not want to create a precedent.

This makes no sense to me.

Based on the T&C as presently drafted (which are the basis of the contract between us), either Hyatt's interpretation is correct and all 3rd party bookings are ineligible just because they are 3rd party bookings, or mine is correct, meaning that how a booking is made is irrelevant in determining eligibility. Rather what is relevant is what rate was paid.

From what you say - that is, that some 3rd party bookings are accepted by Hyatt as eligible given the rates paid are not discount rates - then Hyatt seems to agree my interpretation when it suits them and theirs when it doesn't. That is neither legally justified, nor "right".

You cannot and should not pick and choose to adhere to contractual terms. It is of course, something that is routinely done in such situations because "they can"; that is, Hyatt know that ultimately, there really is little I can or will do if they do not fulfil their side of the bargain. They have little to lose as they know I am but one and there are plenty of others who unlike me, will not question or push and will stay "loyal" however they are treated. Unimpressive.

If they consider their own T&C not binding/unimportant, then don't have any and let's all go on the "luck of the draw". Except they wouldn't do that as their T&C are binding and important if they want/need to rely on them to their advantage - as in my case.

As regards creating precedent, we are talking three stays all completed before the "error" was discovered. Why treat two one way and the third another? All should be treated the same.

And they can do that without fear of precedent creating by saying they are doing it as a gesture of goodwill in the circumstances, with no admission of liability and on the basis that no further allowances will be made should I book again through a 3rd party, whatever rate I pay. Easy.

My cynical view (as I cannot think of any other good reason for it) is that Hyatt are holding fast on the third stay not because of precedent fear but rather that - as opposed to the other two - the third stay was a long stay that would earn me significant bonus points and a status upgrade. Once again, unimpressive.

They are moving your posts and starting totally new threads because your post has nothing to do with the original thread you posted on.

And this indicates a problem with the poster and not FT.

In fact it is nice that they do so. That way you can get some answers on a thread that has something to do with the issue you are concerned about.