Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate - TSA BDOs finally get something right

I suspect that Blogger Bob will be touting the success of the BDO program in the very near future.

http://overheadbin.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/31/13050994-authorities-tsa-agents-rescued-kidnapped-woman-at-miami-airport?lite

I think anyone without the 40 hours or 2 weeks of BDO training could have made the same determination.

I think anyone without the 40 hours or 2 weeks of BDO training could have made the same determination.

Like anyone with a pulse.

Which does make you wonder why no one stepped up to help her.

So wait, this woman had the snot visibly beaten out of her, was concealing her face, and she looked afraid? I may not have the 8 hours of intense government training that a TSO gets, but I'm pretty sure anyone with two functioning brain cells could have figured out that something was not right here. The only plus I see to the TSA's involvement was that the victim was probably carted off into a "private screening room" by herself, rather than being questioned right in front of her assailants.

I suspect that Blogger Bob will be touting the success of the BDO program in the very near future.

http://overheadbin.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/31/13050994-authorities-tsa-agents-rescued-kidnapped-woman-at-miami-airport?lite

I think anyone without the 40 hours or 2 weeks of BDO training could have made the same determination.

^

Good for them.

Mike

Yeah, I'm not going to be too hard on TSA for this one. They did what they were supposed to do - what anyone should do when they encounter someone who looks like they've been beaten and are under duress - they asked, "Are you all right, ma'am? Can we help you?"

I'm not going to even acknowledge the ridiculous idea that noticing such a person is possible only because of BDO training.

I will note that, according to the article, the victim had a head covering on to disguise the fresh bruises on her face. But such head coverings must be removed during screening, so EVERYONE was going to see those bruises anyway.

Frankly, I see this one as being more the product of monumentally stupid criminals than anything else. First, commit multiple felonies. Then, cover your victim's injurries with a scarf, and take her to an airport full of security screeners, cops, and surveilence cameras, where she will be screened, examined, and perhaps questioned prior to boarding the flight, during which time she will be required by law to remove the lame-o "disguise" you've put on her.

As Doctor Evil is fond of saying, "Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh t..."

Next up: Bank robber attempts to evade police by running to police station and hiding under detective's desk while wearing Groucho nose.

It is sad but true. That a lot of people dont want to get involved in somebody elses "buisness".

To those people I can only say "what if it is you and /or your family/friends.

It is sad but true. That a lot of people dont want to get involved in somebody elses "buisness".

The TSA has never been afraid to get all up in my business.

I am happy that the woman was rescued.


On the other hand: are not the training is about recognizing/picking the bad guys? Did they notice that the men behave suspiciously?

The TSA has never been afraid to get all up in my business.

TSA likes to get all up in travellers "buisness".

I was more thinking about people in general. Not TSA. I dont consider them "people".

I am happy that the woman was rescued.


On the other hand: are not the training is about recognizing/picking the bad guys? Did they notice that the men behave suspiciously?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Good one.

Not sure how reaching out to a kidnap victim indicates they have mad skills at spotting behavior that indicates someone is about to take down a plane, but gotta give credit where credit is due. They saw something they thought was hinky and they did something. Good on 'em.

I hope the victim is recovering well. No one deserves what happened to her. NO ONE.

I, too, am pleased that she was rescued.

However, there is a little gremlin in the back of my mind that is itching to say something.

We quite often on this board criticize the TSA for going beyond their charge of finding WEI. Some of us complain when they find bit of marijuana and call an LEO. Or we say that it is none of their business to report a large amount of cash even though this may be a sign of some criminal activity.

Does the fact that we would have done the same thing make it different? Is it because they did it, not as government actors, but as concerned citizens make it different?

This was clearly outside the bounds of the things for which they are looking. Do we really want them to be all proud of this accomplishment so that they will report every suspicious activity, like taking pictures in the airport, having consecutive checks in ones wallet, and having photographs they deem pornographic that they find by accident?

I have told my gremlin to shut up now.

DON'T CREDIT the BDOs for this one!

Read the article:

http://overheadbin.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/31/13050994-authorities-tsa-agents-rescued-kidnapped-woman-at-miami-airport?lite

It says:

“She told us basically to help her and to take her away from the people that she was traveling with,” Danielle said.

The BDOs didn't detect this. The alleged victim TOLD the TSA that something was amiss, according to the TSA.

And one more thing:

The two men were released.

That's right! The alleged kidnappers were bonded and released. So a judge didn't think they were all that dangerous.

This wasn't a random kidnapping. The alleged kidnappers were members of a group of people she had gone on vacation with:

Detectives said the woman came to South Florida with a group on vacation -- but it turned to a nightmare when one woman accused the victim having an intimate relationship with her boyfriend. She was then beaten and kidnapped, North Miami Police said.

So this may turn out to be a he-said she-said case involving an adulteress or infidelity. Certainly nobody deserves a beating, but who the hell knows what happened here. The judge let them out on bail. I have a feeling when we hear the facts from parties other than the TSA, the story may be different.

I, too, am pleased that she was rescued.

However, there is a little gremlin in the back of my mind that is itching to say something.

We quite often on this board criticize the TSA for going beyond their charge of finding WEI. Some of us complain when they find bit of marijuana and call an LEO. Or we say that it is none of their business to report a large amount of cash even though this may be a sign of some criminal activity.

Does the fact that we would have done the same thing make it different? Is it because they did it, not as government actors, but as concerned citizens make it different?

This was clearly outside the bounds of the things for which they are looking. Do we really want them to be all proud of this accomplishment so that they will report every suspicious activity, like taking pictures in the airport, having consecutive checks in ones wallet, and having photographs they deem pornographic that they find by accident?

I have told my gremlin to shut up now.

She somehow indicated that she needed help. If someone reaches out to you in that situation, my feeling is that you can respond -- police officer, mall cop, TSA screener, concerned citizen, whoever you are. If she had said "I'm fine. I'm recovering from a facelift," they should have gone no further.

I get where you're going, but this isn't anything at all like probing someone's purse to see if they are carrying too much money onto a plane. I'm not interested in swatting their hands for this at all.

She somehow indicated that she needed help. If someone reaches out to you in that situation, my feeling is that you can respond -- police officer, mall cop, TSA screener, concerned citizen, whoever you are. If she had said "I'm fine. I'm recovering from a facelift," they should have gone no further.

I get where you're going, but this isn't anything at all like probing someone's purse to see if they are carrying too much money onto a plane. I'm not interested in swatting their hands for this at all.

I missed that in the original story. My gremlin says it makes a difference. However, there is still this:

“She told us basically to help her and to take her away from the people that she was traveling with,” Danielle said.

I can be a BDO if people will tell me they are in trouble and point out the perpetrator.

I can't wait to hear how they detained the four other passengers in the story. "FREEZE!!"...maybe?

I, too, am pleased that she was rescued.

However, there is a little gremlin in the back of my mind that is itching to say something.

We quite often on this board criticize the TSA for going beyond their charge of finding WEI. Some of us complain when they find bit of marijuana and call an LEO. Or we say that it is none of their business to report a large amount of cash even though this may be a sign of some criminal activity.

Does the fact that we would have done the same thing make it different? Is it because they did it, not as government actors, but as concerned citizens make it different?

This was clearly outside the bounds of the things for which they are looking. Do we really want them to be all proud of this accomplishment so that they will report every suspicious activity, like taking pictures in the airport, having consecutive checks in ones wallet, and having photographs they deem pornographic that they find by accident?

I have told my gremlin to shut up now.

Two things, Ink:

1) Please don't ever include "taking photographs" in a list of theoretical suspicious behaviors. Taking photographs, in and of itself, is not a suspicious activity in any way and should never be portrayed as such.

2) I understand your gremlin, but this term may assuage it - "The Plain View Doctrine". This is a legal doctrine that says that even a police officer, who needs a warrant or probable cause to search, may act upon anything illegal or suspicious that is in plain view. Example: when a cop pulls you over for a speed violation, he may not search your car without permission, but if he sees open alcohol, drugs or drug paraphernalia, or evidence of other illegal activity in plain view with in the car, then he may search it, because the items in plain view establish probable cause.

I've probably butchered the explanation, so hopefully one of our legal eagles will come along and correct my mistakes.

But, to my way of thinking, the Plain View Doctrine is essentially what guides TSOs during their administrative search; anything in plain view - which includes anything they see during the normal course of a limited administrative search - can be used as evidence, and should trigger their notification of LEOs for a criminal search.

Thus, a woman who had recently received a beating and had plainly evident injuries, coupled with nervous behavior, all happens in plain view and is sufficient, in my opinion, to warrant the TSOs calling in LEOs. Just like if they witness a pickpocket stealing someone's wallet.

It is when they see something that is NOT suspicious (like someone taking pics in an airport - DUH, people take pics when they're on vacation! or traveling with a bunch of money - DUH, you have to PAY for stuff when you travel!), yet they interpret it as suspicious and over-react, that's when they're overstepping the bounds of their limited authority.

Two things, Ink:

1) Please don't ever include "taking photographs" in a list of theoretical suspicious behaviors. Taking photographs, in and of itself, is not a suspicious activity in any way and should never be portrayed as such.

2) I understand your gremlin, but this term may assuage it - "The Plain View Doctrine". This is a legal doctrine that says that even a police officer, who needs a warrant or probable cause to search, may act upon anything illegal or suspicious that is in plain view. Example: when a cop pulls you over for a speed violation, he may not search your car without permission, but if he sees open alcohol, drugs or drug paraphernalia, or evidence of other illegal activity in plain view with in the car, then he may search it, because the items in plain view establish probable cause.

I've probably butchered the explanation, so hopefully one of our legal eagles will come along and correct my mistakes.

But, to my way of thinking, the Plain View Doctrine is essentially what guides TSOs during their administrative search; anything in plain view - which includes anything they see during the normal course of a limited administrative search - can be used as evidence, and should trigger their notification of LEOs for a criminal search.

Thus, a woman who had recently received a beating and had plainly evident injuries, coupled with nervous behavior, all happens in plain view and is sufficient, in my opinion, to warrant the TSOs calling in LEOs. Just like if they witness a pickpocket stealing someone's wallet.

It is when they see something that is NOT suspicious (like someone taking pics in an airport - DUH, people take pics when they're on vacation! or traveling with a bunch of money - DUH, you have to PAY for stuff when you travel!), yet they interpret it as suspicious and over-react, that's when they're overstepping the bounds of their limited authority.

I agree almost 100%. I am not worried about what we agree or define as suspicious. I am worried that they may use an incident like this to expand the definition of what they define as suspicious.

DON'T CREDIT the BDOs for this one!

Read the article:

http://overheadbin.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/31/13050994-authorities-tsa-agents-rescued-kidnapped-woman-at-miami-airport?lite

It says:



The BDOs didn't detect this. The alleged victim TOLD the TSA that something was amiss, according to the TSA.



I'm not so sure about that. The full quote is:

"The way that she was acting, we actually thought it was a case of an abduction because she looked very young,” Danielle said.

Her partner approached her and asked her to come with them, Danielle added.

“She told us basically to help her and to take her away from the people that she was traveling with,” Danielle said.

So I don't know if the partner saw something wrong and approached her to take her away, or the victim indicated that something was wrong and the TSO followed up on it.

Mike

It is sad but true. That a lot of people dont want to get involved in somebody elses "buisness".

To those people I can only say "what if it is you and /or your family/friends.

Agree.. I witnessed a crime against a child, intervened and nearly got killed. Now, I just stay out of it and be a witness.

I agree almost 100%. I am not worried about what we agree or define as suspicious. I am worried that they may use an incident like this to expand the definition of what they define as suspicious.

+1

I personally have had to travel (once) looking like I'd been badly beaten up (bad bad fall backpacking). I was in a lot of pain, people stared...but I still wouldn't want TSA involved in such a situation.

Why?

If I fly when I'm a bruised, swollen scabbed mess, I represent no threat to the flying public. If I fly while stressed, aching and uncomfortable because people are staring at me, I still represent no threat to the flying public.

I do not want some TSO to use this incident to play Jr. BDO-wannabe and cause me further grief by interrogating me, summoning LEOs, delaying me, etc. because he/she wants to get his/her 15 minutes of fame.

This woman apparently asked for assistance and got it. If the pax initiates a request, fine. Otherwise, it is none of TSA's business. They continually fail to fulfil the mission they are actually tasked to do; they have no business playing at being LEOs.

I am happy that the woman was rescued.


On the other hand: are not the training is about recognizing/picking the bad guys? Did they notice that the men behave suspiciously?

These were apparently her "friends" who did that to her. And the involved women were the principal instigators of the reported crimes. The men mainly accomplices trying to make their sex partners happy by turning on the woman who was the "rule" breaker in the group.

Next up: Bank robber attempts to evade police by running to police station and hiding under detective's desk while wearing Groucho nose.

Usually there is not one thing on this forum that makes me laugh, but this comment is a classic. ^^

And they still have not found a single terrorist.

And they still have not found a single terrorist.

That means the Layers are working! The Bad Guys are so scared of TSA, they're staying away in droves!

I suspect that Blogger Bob will be touting the success of the BDO program in the very near future.

http://overheadbin.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/31/13050994-authorities-tsa-agents-rescued-kidnapped-woman-at-miami-airport?lite

I think anyone without the 40 hours or 2 weeks of BDO training could have made the same determination.

As predicted, SPOTNiks saving the world is the headline for this week. (http://blog.tsa.gov/)