Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan - Jumped in the queue....AGAIN

A little peeved- this is the third time I've been jumped in the upgrade queue :confused:this month. The others were shorter flights, so no biggie, but thus one was to Hawaii. I asked the GA about it- he person who jumped was MVP (I'm gold) and they had no explanation but the "glitch" excuse. Awful new upgrade system.

It's not new. :( It's been around for years, and AS has never gotten around to fixing it.

A little peeved- this is the third time I've been jumped in the upgrade queue :confused:this month. The others were shorter flights, so no biggie, but thus one was to Hawaii. I asked the GA about it- he person who jumped was MVP (I'm gold) and they had no explanation but the "glitch" excuse. Awful new upgrade system.

If you want to forward your flight information I can have someone look into it.

Are you sure you were jumped and that the MVP didn't have a higher upgrade priority than you?

The OP didn't provide enough details to discern exactly what happened. Was the MVP's upgrade cleared at the gate or during OLCI?

In a T-24 upgrade situation, it's all about having the fastest fingers. It's not really fair, but that's how AS has it set up. If you don't want to be leapfrogged, then you have to learn to play the game.

The OP didn't provide enough details to discern exactly what happened. Was the MVP's upgrade cleared at the gate or during OLCI?

In a T-24 upgrade situation, it's all about having the fastest fingers. It's not really fair, but that's how AS has it set up. If you don't want to be leapfrogged, then you have to learn to play the game.

The leapfrogging game was supposed to have been fixed while I was on vacation. But I've only been back in the office for 3 hours, so I'm not up to speed on everything yet :

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The OP didn't provide enough details to discern exactly what happened. Was the MVP's upgrade cleared at the gate or during OLCI?

In a T-24 upgrade situation, it's all about having the fastest fingers. It's not really fair, but that's how AS has it set up. If you don't want to be leapfrogged, then you have to learn to play the game.

The leapfrogging game was supposed to have been fixed while I was on vacation. But I've only been back in the office for 3 hours, so I'm not up to speed on everything yet :

Unless it was towards the end of the vacation...I'm not convinced things changed yet.

Welcome back :D ^

This thread here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alaska-airlines-mileage-plan/1371833-how-exactly-do-upgrades-work.html) seems to give an indication they are, or have indeed possibly fixed the loophole.

I am curious how the OP knows they were jumped over so many times. That's obviously not public knowledge, and unless if you start taking a poll of F passengers or getting the gate agent to go into other peoples records for you I can't think of a way to figure it out.

Hopefully it is fixed, or will be soon. One less thing to worry about would be nice.

This thread here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alaska-airlines-mileage-plan/1371833-how-exactly-do-upgrades-work.html) seems to give an indication they are, or have indeed possibly fixed the loophole.

I am curious how the OP knows they were jumped over so many times. That's obviously not public knowledge, and unless if you start taking a poll of F passengers or getting the gate agent to go into other peoples records for you I can't think of a way to figure it out. This should no longer happen.

Hopefully it is fixed, or will be soon. One less thing to worry about would be nice.


The fix did indeed go out over a week ago. If anyone has a legitimate reason to believe they were jumped, then please PM me your flight details.

And by legitimate, I need more than "an MVP was in first and I wasn't".

Jumping would consist of someone receiving a paid upgrade during check-in when there was still an active waitlist, or someone playing the "check in over and over" game hoping a U seat would come available and they could grab it before the agent started clearing the waitlist.

Edited by MD: Incorrect Info Removed

In the previous version of the upgrade list, where everything was converted to the Airport waitlist at check-in .. 75K's and Golds automatically floated to the top of the airport waitlist. Now that the original waitlist order is being preserved, that will no longer happen.

This is somewhat contradictory to the way I understand upgrade waitlists.

Let's say Mary the MVP books a ticket July 1 for a flight next month. It's a qualifying fare, but there's no U space, so she gets put on the waitlist.

On July 2, Gary the Gold books a ticket for the same flight. It's also a qualifying fare, but there's still no U space, so he also goes on the waitlist.

On July 3, revenue management releases 1 seat for upgrade. Who gets it?

I'm sure I don't fully understand "the rules", but I really want to understand them :)

By "jumped the queue" I mean that upon arrival to the gate, I am #1 on the upgrade list. I spoke to the GA, who says that there is one seat in F that hasn't checked in. 15 minutes before boarding, she calls #2 to the desk and upgrades her. How do I know she's MVP? I asked the GA. I spoke to the GA, who was truly confused, called several different "training centers" and gave them my info; they also don't know why it happened.

Either the queue listed at the gate is not ordered correctly (in which case I apologize for this rant) or the U fare was released minutes before boarding, or I'm just unlucky. The other two times this happened I did not check the status of the queue jumper, so perhaps they were 75K, but then wouldn't they be listed top of the list, not second or third? I pay attention to the names on the list, and the names being called for the upgrades, so I know that they were lower on the list than myself. Once, I and my daughter were 1 and 2, and I was upgraded, number 3 was upgraded, and daughter sat in coach.

Educate me.

I'm sure I don't fully understand "the rules", but I really want to understand them :)

By "jumped the queue" I mean that upon arrival to the gate, I am #1 on the upgrade list. I spoke to the GA, who says that there is one seat in F that hasn't checked in. 15 minutes before boarding, she calls #2 to the desk and upgrades her. How do I know she's MVP? I asked the GA. I spoke to the GA, who was truly confused, called several different "training centers" and gave them my info; they also don't know why it happened.

Either the queue listed at the gate is not ordered correctly (in which case I apologize for this rant) or the U fare was released minutes before boarding, or I'm just unlucky. The other two times this happened I did not check the status of the queue jumper, so perhaps they were 75K, but then wouldn't they be listed top of the list, not second or third? I pay attention to the names on the list, and the names being called for the upgrades, so I know that they were lower on the list than myself. Once, I and my daughter were 1 and 2, and I was upgraded, number 3 was upgraded, and daughter sat in coach.

Educate me.

We still won't be able to give you a detailed explanation of what happened. All we can do here is make educated guesses, I would PM MissyDarlin your flight # and date, so she can find the answer to what took place. From there we can better explain why that happened.

I can understand the OP's frustration. I am used to seeing my name high on the upgrade list (2nd to 4th) on any DL flight and watch as it drops down into the 20's and 30's by the time boarding begins. Normally on AS flights if I did not get upgraded my position on the list stays static thru to actual boarding. Once though, I was first on the list with FC not checked in full yet. So, I was quite hopeful :) Along came two guys up to the GA desk and started chatting with the GAs, I could hear an occasional word now and then "please, laughing and joking, aw come on, etc) and wow, about 30 seconds after they left the desk two names appeared on the waiting to upgrade list ahead of me. The appearance sure looked like they sweet talked their way ahead of me, but they really could have bumped me for perfectly legitimate reasons. At that time it was not worth trying to see what really happened, as I would have felt too much like a DYKWIA too.

Once though, I was first on the list with FC not checked in full yet. So, I was quite hopeful :) Along came two guys up to the GA desk and started chatting with the GAs, I could hear an occasional word now and then "please, laughing and joking, aw come on, etc) and wow, about 30 seconds after they left the desk two names appeared on the waiting to upgrade list ahead of me. The appearance sure looked like they sweet talked their way ahead of me, but they really could have bumped me for perfectly legitimate reasons. At that time it was not worth trying to see what really happened, as I would have felt too much like a DYKWIA too.

It's all water under the bridge at this point but my thought (not that you were asking for it) is this: being #1 on the waitlist and seemingly outgunned for an upgrade by two people who apparently weren't even on the list would have compelled me to ask the GA what happened. Because of the manner in which they wheedled and cajoled their way ahead of you, that would have led me to believe they lacked the perfectly legitimate reasons. I think you were owed an explanation. There's no harm in you, as a customer, asking the question. At the very least, it would put that GA's on notice that "people are watching" and, perfectly legitimate reasons aside, they should respect the priority of the waitlist. Granted, the two interlopers, as customers, were entitled to plead their case. But good customer service also means following the rules and if they didn't have the legitimate reason, their request should have been denied. After all, how would they feel if you did unto them what they did unto you?

This is somewhat contradictory to the way I understand upgrade waitlists.

Let's say Mary the MVP books a ticket July 1 for a flight next month. It's a qualifying fare, but there's no U space, so she gets put on the waitlist.

On July 2, Gary the Gold books a ticket for the same flight. It's also a qualifying fare, but there's still no U space, so he also goes on the waitlist.

On July 3, revenue management releases 1 seat for upgrade. Who gets it?

Update: Mary the MVP gets the upgrade. However, it would be a different situation if it had been Stanley the 75K instead of Gary the Gold

I'm sure I don't fully understand "the rules", but I really want to understand them :)

By "jumped the queue" I mean that upon arrival to the gate, I am #1 on the upgrade list. I spoke to the GA, who says that there is one seat in F that hasn't checked in. 15 minutes before boarding, she calls #2 to the desk and upgrades her. How do I know she's MVP? I asked the GA. I spoke to the GA, who was truly confused, called several different "training centers" and gave them my info; they also don't know why it happened.

Either the queue listed at the gate is not ordered correctly (in which case I apologize for this rant) or the U fare was released minutes before boarding, or I'm just unlucky. The other two times this happened I did not check the status of the queue jumper, so perhaps they were 75K, but then wouldn't they be listed top of the list, not second or third? I pay attention to the names on the list, and the names being called for the upgrades, so I know that they were lower on the list than myself. Once, I and my daughter were 1 and 2, and I was upgraded, number 3 was upgraded, and daughter sat in coach.

Educate me.
If you can forward your record locator, I can have the dev team research your specific issue.

I agree with dave1013...and would definitely recommend that you report this issue in the future. Maybe not directly to that agent as they may not understand why the system does what it does, or if they are pulling any shenanigans, its not like they are going to admit it.

But the one thing that I find wierd is that they appeared on the list ahead of you. I can see where they could clear someone out of listed order, but I don't know that they have the capability to actually change the order of the list.

Thankfully I have never been jumped in the que and missed an upgrade (heck I get upgraded at 120 hours most flights) but if I were I most definitely would inquire with the GA.

On another note I just want to recognize missydarlin for being so helpful on this site. Great to see her be so helpful and caring.

Nevermind... I was right the first time, mostly.

Well crap... I was wrong.

The waitlist *is* cleared in tier order. So Gary Gold would get the upgrade before Mary MVP.

Thanks for clarifying missy, that helps set expectations. Knowing that the waitlist is sorted by elite status first, and then date added to the waitlist will help set expectations for the future. Presumably this sort order should remain consistent at the airport.

On another note I just want to recognize missydarlin for being so helpful on this site. Great to see her be so helpful and caring.

Agreed... many thanks to missydarlin for her continued efforts in this forum :)

And I for one am glad if the T-24 loophole is finally being fixed. I used that trick a couple of times but felt dirty doing it... and in the times when I got passed over for an upgrade I always wondered if it was because someone else used the trick on me.

Well crap... I was wrong.

The waitlist *is* cleared in tier order. So Gary Gold would get the upgrade before Mary MVP.

What if Mary MVP bought a higher fare class that would normally qualify for an instant MVP upgrade (but U inventory was sold out), and Gary Gold was in a cheap fare class?

And a second question: Apologies if this has been addressed before, but at what tier do the various DL elites slot in on the list?

What if Mary MVP bought a higher fare class that would normally qualify for an instant MVP upgrade (but U inventory was sold out), and Gary Gold was in a cheap fare class?

And a second question: Apologies if this has been addressed before, but at what tier do the various DL elites slot in on the list?

UPDATED: Whoever goes on the waitlist first... so in this case, its Mary.

What if Mary MVP bought a higher fare class that would normally qualify for an instant MVP upgrade (but U inventory was sold out), and Gary Gold was in a cheap fare class?

And a second question: Apologies if this has been addressed before, but at what tier do the various DL elites slot in on the list?

Wondering this, too, assuming the hypothetical flight departs in one hour. Who gets it?

Good to know that the posted wait list should not be able to be changed, that makes me think the odds are good that they legitimately bumped me. None of us got upgraded, I saw the two guys settling into their seats in C.

I agree with dave1013...and would definitely recommend that you report this issue in the future. Maybe not directly to that agent as they may not understand why the system does what it does, or if they are pulling any shenanigans, its not like they are going to admit it.

But the one thing that I find wierd is that they appeared on the list ahead of you. I can see where they could clear someone out of listed order, but I don't know that they have the capability to actually change the order of the list.

Thanks, Missy. PM'd you.

I can understand the OP's frustration. I am used to seeing my name high on the upgrade list (2nd to 4th) on any DL flight and watch as it drops down into the 20's and 30's by the time boarding begins.

This is normal on DL for PMs and DMs who can Same Day Confirm to another flight within 3 hours of their targeted flight, and on the same calendar day as their original flight:
https://www.delta.com/skymiles/about_skymiles/benefits_at_glance/same_day_travel/index.jsp

It's common for V/X inventory (FC/BE upgrades for DL Elites) to be held back at the gate to 0 while they attempt to sell last minute FC/BE fares. Once I move to a SDC confirmed flight, I ask to be added to the upgrade list for the flight (as you can only SDC into the originally purchased class of service). I've overheard upset GMs complaining about how they bumped down the list within an hour of travel, but this is the most common reason for it to happen so close to the departure.

The other common reason that the DL upgrade list is fairly useless until 2 hours and less prior to departure because it doesn't show all passengers destined for the airport upgrade standby list, it only shows passengers on the upgrade standby list that have checked in. Knowing that time of check in has no affect on my upgrade priority, there are times that I'm not checked in until arrival to the airport.

We've done some more research, thanks to this thread, and I've explained the current upgrade process in detail at the link below.

I'll be editing my posts in this thread to reflect the corrected information

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alaska-airlines-mileage-plan/1375700-how-complimentary-upgrades-work.html

We've done some more research, thanks to this thread, and I've explained the current upgrade process in detail at the link below.

I'll be editing my posts in this thread to reflect the corrected information

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alaska-airlines-mileage-plan/1375700-how-complimentary-upgrades-work.htm

The link doesn't work, but if I add the letter 'l' to the end, it does :)
Thanks for the great post!

Ron

The link doesn't work, but if I add the letter 'l' to the end, it does :)
Thanks for the great post!

Ron

fixed :)