Hong Kong and Macau - UK Passport vs HKID

Hi. I'm a british born chinese and frequently return to hk (within 3 years) hence I got 3-star permanent HKID status on my HKID card.

My mother has always told me that despite having the 3-star status, I still must use my UK passport to get them 'stamped' as proof of entry/exit across borders into HK. She told me that if I don't get the stamps, the immigration people will have 'no record' of me going in and out of HK and hence, I will lose my 3-star status.

But I personally think that even if I use my hkid for e-channel instead of 'stamping' my UK passport, they will still have a record of my entry/exits.

Can someone please help confirm whether I can just use my hkid for e-channel and still get my 3-star status (subject to returning within 3 years) or whether I must use my british passport (along with immigration forms and large queues etc etc) in order to have a 'record' of entry/exit so that I can keep my 3-star status.

Thanks

(side note, I used UK passport to get 'stamped' when I came into hk 2 months ago and i'm leaving in 2 days time. Just want to know in advance which method of immigration is better. Or if there is technically no difference whichever method I use. Thanks)

If you have a valid HKID, then just use that to enter and exit Hong Kong. No reason not to. It has no effect on your nationality or residency status. Just more convenient to use the e-channel, and save passport pages for places that DO have to put stamps in it.

Unless you want to easily show to officers of other countries when you have stayed in Hong Kong. But that has nothing to do with HK or UK Immigration.

So basically, what my mother told me were all just 'very cautious' measures.

HK government will still have records of me entering/exiting hong kong regardless which form of identity I use right? So when I renew my HKID in the future, they can still call up all my entry/exit records on their system despite using HKID e-channel from now on?

So basically, what my mother told me were all just 'very cautious' measures.

HK government will still have records of me entering/exiting hong kong regardless which form of identity I use right? So when I renew my HKID in the future, they can still call up all my entry/exit records on their system despite using HKID e-channel from now on?

Yes, but you don't need to worry about that anyways. Permanent residency means exactly that, as long as you set foot in HK at least once every 36 months.

Thanks so much rkkwan :) you told me just what I needed to hear

Yes, but you don't need to worry about that anyways. Permanent residency means exactly that. You don't have to set foot in Hong Kong at all to retain that residency.
That is only right if you are a Chinese citizen with ROA. There are some grey areas. I have a friend who has a UK passport, a permanent 3 star ID but is refused a HK passport. I am not sure if he could be downgraded to RTL by staying away for 3 years.

Another thing is: They would not stamp your passport anyway. Even with non permanent IDs and visa the passport is only stamped on the first entry (Unless you have a student or DH visa).

That is only right if you are a Chinese citizen with ROA. There are some grey areas. I have a friend who has a UK passport, a permanent 3 star ID but is refused a HK passport. I am not sure if he could be downgraded to RTL by staying away for 3 years.

Another thing is: They would not stamp your passport anyway. Even with non permanent IDs and visa the passport is only stamped on the first entry (Unless you have a student or DH visa).

Right, you do have to set foot in HK at least once every 36 months. I edited my post above for the correction.

Simply: if you have a HKID that is valid, use it to enter Hong Kong territory. As rkkwan said, it will cut down on your waiting time and it will not affect your residency status; in fact, if you want HK Immigration to know you arrived in HK, you should use the ID, as all entries/exits with the ID are recorded anyways.

Right, you do have to set foot in HK at least once every 36 months. I edited my post above for the correction.

Really? Even if you have earned the 'right to abode'? I thought PR is something you earned and they can't just take it away from you.

Really? Even if you have earned the 'right to abode'? I thought PR is something you earned and they can't just take it away from you.

No, I think someone posting here was confused between "Right of Abode" and "Right to Land". Two completely different resident status in Hong Kong.

If the first alphabet just below the date of birth of the HKID card is "A", the holder has the Right of Abode in HK. If it is "R", the holder has the Right to Land in HK.

Really? Even if you have earned the 'right to abode'? I thought PR is something you earned and they can't just take it away from you.Right of Abode (entitles to a permanent ID card) will be downgraded to right to land (non permanent ID card) if a non Chinese citizen stays out of HK for more than 36 months. But a Chinese citizen can't lose the right of abode.

The main difference is that with right to land you can't vote and can be deported if committing a serious crime.

But I personally think that even if I use my hkid for e-channel instead of 'stamping' my UK passport, they will still have a record of my entry/exits.

Correct, you can even apply for a statement of the record http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/id697.htm

If the first alphabet just below the date of birth of the HKID card is "A", the holder has the Right of Abode in HK.

And you are entitled for the HKD6K refund from the government :D

Right of Abode (entitles to a permanent ID card) will be downgraded to right to land (non permanent ID card) if a non Chinese citizen stays out of HK for more than 36 months. But a Chinese citizen can't lose the right of abode.

The main difference is that with right to land you can't vote and can be deported if committing a serious crime.

I thought a British Born Chinese will be regarded as Chinese citizen? What if he applies SAR passport? Wouldn't it make him 'Chinese'?

I thought a British Born Chinese will be regarded as Chinese citizen? What if he applies SAR passport? Wouldn't it make him 'Chinese'?

See Immigration Dept's FAQs on Right of Abode:

http://www.gov.hk/en/residents/immigration/idcard/roa/faqroa.htm

Per Q10, BBCs who acquired UK citizenship at birth at not Chinese citizens. They don't have ROA and they can't get SAR passports. I think my brother's ABC children (born after 1997) fall under the same circumstances. That's why my sister-in-law wasn't able to get Home Return Permits for them. They come here on their Australian passports. My sister in law has been ambiguous about whether these children have HKIDs but I'm coming to believe they do not because they are not eligible to.

Q1 lists who can acquire ROA after the handover. But there appears to be a further category not listed by the FAQ - those who have pre-handover ROA, such as http://www.sm128c.com/hk/ . Para 2(c) at the time was probably worded as a BDTC born outside of Hong Kong to a BDTC parent (rather than a Chinese citizen born outside HK to a Chinese parent). I believe this is OP's case.

If I am correct, then OP can lose his ROA under circumstances described in FAQ Q4(5). Yes he does have to come back every 36 months.

This need not be done under UK passport. I understand OP's mother's thinking - an entry stamp by the Immigration Dept is good prima facie evidence that the 36-monthly visit for continuation of ROA has been complied with. But there are alternatives - the Immigration Dept has a record of who's been in and out of HK on ID cards and passports, and can provide a statement of the record on application http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/id697.htm .

But if OP came in under UK passport he must exit under the same. Otherwise a supervisor has to be called in - I've done it when I've lost my HKID and had to exit under a foreign passport.

The Statement of Travel Records can only go back 10 years, however.

I'm also worried that (unless his UK passport has been endorsed with his HK right of abode eligiblity by the Immigration Dept), the slight off-chance the Immigration Dept will downgrade his ROA based on his lack of entry record on his HKID card. Without the endorsment, they won't know he's been back on his UK passport. This might not happen very soon cos ID cards don't have expiry dates, but may be brought up if and when the ID cards have to be replaced (e.g. to Smart ID 2).

I recommend OP apply for a "verification of eligibility for a permanent identity card with the Right of Abode Section of the Immigration Department for assessment of whether you have lost the permanent resident status and have the right to land in the HKSAR" per Q4 of the FAQ on the next time he's back (he may need to bring back all his passports), and then obtain Statement of Travel Records every 10 years thereafter.

No, I think someone posting here was confused between "Right of Abode" and "Right to Land". Two completely different resident status in Hong Kong.

If the first alphabet just below the date of birth of the HKID card is "A", the holder has the Right of Abode in HK. If it is "R", the holder has the Right to Land in HK.

This is a good guide to what those codes mean http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/nationalityinstructions/nichapter14/ch14annexe?view=Binary . Funny I can't find such a document in any gov.hk site.

For greater clarity, a “Chinese citizen” is a person of Chinese nationality under the Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China (CNL). Hong Kong residents who are of Chinese descent and were born in the Chinese territories (including Hong Kong), or persons who satisfy the criteria laid down in the CNL as having Chinese nationality, are Chinese nationals.

Source: http://www.gov.hk/en/residents/immigration/chinese/nationality.htm

There is a whole section on HK residency entitlements and restrictions of British citizens in the HK Immigration Dept. web site:

http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/topical_7.htm

There is a whole section on HK residency entitlements and restrictions of British citizens in the HK Immigration Dept. web site:

http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/topical_7.htm

That section mainly covers British expats still in HK after the handover. They lose their Resident British Citizen status, but are still granted ongoing permission to remain provided they do not move out for a period for 12 months or more. I reckon a lot of them will either have become permanent residents under the 7 year rule or have permanently relocated back to the UK.

Doesn't really cover BBCs and grandfathered BDTCs ROAs.

That section mainly covers British expats still in HK after the handover. They lose their Resident British Citizen status, but are still granted ongoing permission to remain provided they do not move out for a period for 12 months or more. I reckon a lot of them will either have become permanent residents under the 7 year rule or have permanently relocated back to the UK.

Doesn't really cover BBCs and grandfathered BDTCs ROAs.

As OP (ayau8888) was "British born Chinese" but he did not say whether he was a "Resident British citizen". Many BBC could be "Resident British citizen" prior to 1997. However, as you say, 15 years have lapsed and many would have either acquired permanent resident status under the 7 year rule or have permanently emigrated from the former colony.

OT, but related question. I am Chinese national with a HKPID, HKSAR Passport, as well as Australian citizenship. My wife is Australian citizen (born in China). We are expecting birth of our child in Australia end of this year. Can my kid get HKPID as well?

Looking at the website below, it looks like I cannot get my kid to get HKPID but this is where it gets grey here as it states:

"Article 5 of Chinese Nationality Law states that: “Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality.”

Under normal circumstances, having permanent resident status in a foreign country (that is, having resided abroad ordinarily and not being subject to any restriction on stay) will be treated as having settled abroad."

http://www.gov.hk/en/residents/immigration/idcard/roa/faqroa.htm#/q10

So technically if I don't tell them that I have settled abroad (eg have a local HK address of my relatives), can I get away with my kid getting a HKPID? Has anyone tried this as well for their overseas-born kid?

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No. Same case as my brother's children - they are Australians at birth so they are not Chinese nationals.

Even if u try to claim ordinary residence in HK, your statement of travel records will not support your claim.

If your child is born in HK, (s)he will not be Australian at birth, but you can always get Australian citizenship for him later.

Otherwise the only way to get him a permanent resident status is for him to live in HK for 7 years.



Unrelated question to see if anyone can make sense of this:

One of my uncles was born in China but claimed to be born in HK, after his parents escaped from the Communists. He was issued with a Certificate of Identity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Certificate_of_Identity) saying he was born in HK, as he has no birth certificate. He moved to Malaysia when he was 22, obtained Malaysian citizenship (losing the CI) and then moved back to HK. His ID card only says *AM, and *AMZ on the pre-smart ID. I thought * was only for 11-17 year olds, so how come an adult can have one star?

The answer is no. I sent in applications for my kids for HKPID, and all of them got rejected because:

1. I have acquired Danish citizenship (I still have SAR passport and HKID) before the child was born.

2. The child is not born in Hong Kong.

However my sister's kid got approved, she is living in Taiwan with Taiwanese passport and her husband is Taiwanese, the kid was born in Taiwan.

I think the main difference is that China sees Taiwan as their own territory.


OT, but related question. I am Chinese national with a HKPID, HKSAR Passport, as well as Australian citizenship. My wife is Australian citizen (born in China). We are expecting birth of our child in Australia end of this year. Can my kid get HKPID as well?

Looking at the website below, it looks like I cannot get my kid to get HKPID but this is where it gets grey here as it states:

"Article 5 of Chinese Nationality Law states that: “Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality.”

Under normal circumstances, having permanent resident status in a foreign country (that is, having resided abroad ordinarily and not being subject to any restriction on stay) will be treated as having settled abroad."

http://www.gov.hk/en/residents/immigration/idcard/roa/faqroa.htm#/q10

So technically if I don't tell them that I have settled abroad (eg have a local HK address of my relatives), can I get away with my kid getting a HKPID? Has anyone tried this as well for their overseas-born kid?

But if OP came in under UK passport he must exit under the same. Otherwise a supervisor has to be called in - I've done it when I've lost my HKID and had to exit under a foreign passport.

The Statement of Travel Records can only go back 10 years, however.

I'm also worried that (unless his UK passport has been endorsed with his HK right of abode eligiblity by the Immigration Dept), the slight off-chance the Immigration Dept will downgrade his ROA based on his lack of entry record on his HKID card. Without the endorsment, they won't know he's been back on his UK passport

I am pretty sure that once you have used both a foreign passport and a HKID to enter Hong Kong, both travel documents are linked in the government database. I usually use my HKID to enter Hong Kong but a few years back, I left my HKID at home and so I used my U.S. passport to enter HK. The immigration officer asked me why I didn't use my HKID for that trip (I never told him I had a HKID) and I told him that I had forgotten it but my office was going to Fedex the HKID to me. As I was also going to Macau, I asked him if I needed to use the passport to exit HK and he said it didn't matter as both documents were in my file. I did use my HKID at the e-channel kiosk to travel to Macau and return to the U.S. with no problem.

Best thing for the OP to do is use the passport lane for his next trip and ask the immigration officer if his travel documents are linked. I think the HK government has a very good idea who is entering and exiting the territory.

I am pretty sure that once you have used both a foreign passport and a HKID to enter Hong Kong, both travel documents are linked in the government database. I usually use my HKID to enter Hong Kong but a few years back, I left my HKID at home and so I used my U.S. passport to enter HK.

When you apply for an ID for the first time, you need to show a passport, so they become linked. But if you are born a HKer and subsequently get a different passport, (or change nationality after getting your HKID), I am not so sure they just match it up.

However I don't see the point since the visitor queue is always so long... and if you are non-citizen permanent resident then the consular protection thing still applies anyway.

When you apply for an ID for the first time, you need to show a passport, so they become linked. But if you are born a HKer and subsequently get a different passport, (or change nationality after getting your HKID), I am not so sure they just match it up.

I was born in Hong Kong so I think there is a way they can match your HKID and any subsequent travel documents.

I was born in Hong Kong so I think there is a way they can match your HKID and any subsequent travel documents.

I think HK Govt knows if you were mirgrating from Hong Kong, say to the US, then they know.