oneworld - Qantas and Emirates?? Affect on OneWorld?

Hello All:

I read yesterday that Qantas and Emirates are in late stage talks regarding code sharing or even a stronger relationship. Qantas would be able to use Dubai as more of a stopover point.... I am curious what the affect would be if Qantas goes this route? Would they drop out of the One World? Or would this be a "back door" for one world travlers to fly Emirates?

Very interesting. Thoughts?

NYC

If I remember correctly, emirates has code share agreements with AA and airberlin already. In fact, AA and airberlin allow their FF programs to earn status miles on emirates flights.

If anything, I think this pulls emirates closer into OW.

If I remember correctly, emirates has code share agreements with AA and airberlin already. In fact, AA and airberlin allow their FF programs to earn status miles on emirates flights.

If anything, I think this pulls emirates closer into OW.The only oneworld member to have codeshares with Emirates (EK) at the moment is JL.
AA, AB/HG, MH, UL and S7 have codeshares with Eithad (EY). QF used to have a codeshare deal with EY, but they had a falling out and EY now has a partnership with QF's local competitor DJ/VA.

If I remember correctly, emirates has code share agreements with AA and airberlin already. In fact, AA and airberlin allow their FF programs to earn status miles on emirates flights.

If anything, I think this pulls emirates closer into OW.The only oneworld member to have codeshares with Emirates (EK) at the moment is JL.
AA, AB/HG, MH, UL and S7 have codeshares with Eithad (EY). QF used to have a codeshare deal with EY, but they had a falling out and EY now has a partnership with QF's local competitor DJ/VA.

Ahhh...yes, you are right. I was thinking of Etihad! Sorry!

If I remember correctly, emirates has code share agreements with AA and airberlin already. In fact, AA and airberlin allow their FF programs to earn status miles on emirates flights. ....That is incorrect, AA has no arrangement of any sort with EK -- they have it with Gulf Air, a competitor of EK (presumably what you remembered). Similarly AirBerlin are partially owned by Etihad, another EK competitor. Rather ironically it is now possible to become OW Emerald without ever having flown a single mile on a Oneworld airline :) But not by flying EK, at least prior to the QF deal which is still up in the air.

I've discussed this w the head of Skywards. From what he told me Joining any alliance is out of the question. They are happy signing agreements w single airlines that fir their needs. KE (Skyteam) & SA (*A) are very strong partners and are not going anywhere. Dubai has a very close relationship with Australia so I guess QA might make sense as well. As far as American carriers, the legacy carriers don't work for EK (they tried it with both CO & UA. They signed an agreement with AS recently and now Jet Blue as well. From EK's point of view, they already fly to 7 N American cities, 9 by the end of the year & 11 or 12 by the end of 2013 so a tie in or any alliance w a US based carrier w a strong International route network actually works against them. They are looking for partners that will feed their flights to Dubai and that's all

The other big problem is AA has a strong relationship w BA just as UA has a string relationship w LH & AC. These 3 airlines (BA, LH, AC) HATE EK and would like to see laws enacted to cut them down to size. While AA or QF might be free to work with EK, BA will have no part of it

Finally, as it was told to me. The relationship with UA & CO made sense when EK started it as they did not fly to the US and had Limited service to LHR & LGW which was boosted by UA / CO. However, when EK started flying to the US the relationships actually hurt them as well as their all so precious reputation. Both Tim and Achmed have been widely quoted In the local papers here saying they have no need or desire to ever get involved w any alliance nor another American legacy carrier (AA, UA, DL, US)

Due to the very very string relationship between Australia and Dubai, I could see a partnership with QF including reciprocal FF deals. The one thing that makes no sense to me is that EK has carried so many passengers from the UK to Australia, they have really hurt both QF & BA on this very important route. I wonder why EK needs this or why QF would agree to anything. I'll make sure to ask this week when I'm over at the EK offices

I've discussed this w the head of Skywards. From what he told me Joining any alliance is out of the question. They are happy signing agreements w single airlines that fir their needs. KE (Skyteam) & SA (*A) are very strong partners and are not going anywhere. Dubai has a very close relationship with Australia so I guess QA might make sense as well. As far as American carriers, the legacy carriers don't work for EK (they tried it with both CO & UA. They signed an agreement with AS recently and now Jet Blue as well. From EK's point of view, they already fly to 7 N American cities, 9 by the end of the year & 11 or 12 by the end of 2013 so a tie in or any alliance w a US based carrier w a strong International route network actually works against them. They are looking for partners that will feed their flights to Dubai and that's all

The other big problem is AA has a strong relationship w BA just as UA has a string relationship w LH & AC. These 3 airlines (BA, LH, AC) HATE EK and would like to see laws enacted to cut them down to size. While AA or QA might be free to work with EK, BA will have no part of it

Finally, as it was told to me. The relationship with UA & CO made sense when EK started it as they did not fly to the US and had Limited service to LHR & LGW which was boosted by UA / CO. However, when EK started flying to the US the relationships actually hurt them as well as their all so precious reputation. Both Tim and Achmed have been widely quoted In the local papers here saying they have no need or desire to ever get involved w any alliance nor another American legacy carrier (AA, UA, DL, US)

Due to the very very string relationship between Australia and Dubai, I could see a partnership with QA including reciprocal FF deals. The one thing that makes no sense to me is that EK has carried so many passengers from the UK to Australia, they have really hurt both QA & BA on this very important route. I wonder why EK needs this or why QA would agree to anything. I'll make sure to ask this week when I'm over at the EK offices


I was initially confused by your post but then realized you were using QA for Qantas. QA is Aerocaribe. Qantas is QF.

I was initially confused by your post but then realized you were using QA for Qantas. QA is Aerocaribe. Qantas is QF.

You were confused, really? Given the title of this thread, and all of the subject of chinatraderjmr's post, was it really unclear whether he meant Aerocaribe or Qantas?

I am also surprised that QF would consider this beneficial. What do they really have to gain? They would start to serve DXB and funnel passengers onward on EK? They would carry passengers onward to regional destinations from EK's Australia destinations? That would presumably hurt QF's appeal to European destinations. I guess, with EK's strength to Australia, they figure, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Rather ironically it is now possible to become OW Emerald without ever having flown a single mile on a Oneworld airline :)

Are you referring to the AB-EK tie-up? There has been AA-AS, BA-EC, QF-JQ, and QF-FJ in place already so I guess nothing new. Don't know if it would ever be possible for CX-CA to have something similar (earn status miles / sector when flying on each other's code) without either changing its respective alliance.

QF has been in dicussions with EK and apparently QR aswell. I think QR will be better as they have a huge network but are still in the early stages of developing an Australian network and are infact a big threat going forward as they have a significantly better network than Etihad and look how strong EY is in Australia. If QF and EK have an agreement then how could QF fly to Dubai when EK have an already developed network covering all the connecting banks from DXB.

I still see the value in it, QF clearly can not sustain their international network as tag ons are not financially worthwhile and they have a high cost base. Flying to Heathrow and outsourcing the rest makes sense.

As for the effect on OW then I doubt they would be happy, but what could they do? BA would probably end Australia flights (they have said they only fly there to keep their JSA with QF intact as it is a requirement of the agreement) and instead codeshare with CX and MH . They may still codeshare with QF from DXB and I assume QF will still fly to SIN but I highly doubt you will see a BA code on an EK flight. Everything else would be status quo I imagine.

Keep in mind that EK's long term approach to Australia is the same as its plans for Germany and the US. That is to fly into every major hub / city direct from Dubai (non stop and in the case of Australia both non stop and from the 4 largest cities in S.E. Asia (SIN, BKK, KUL & HKG). I dint know much about aviation in Australia but it seems to me EK would be better off either doing nothing (they already fly to every major city in Australia) or if there is a smaller domestic airline they could tie in with (like AS / Jet Blue). I can't see EK sharing their already profitable business from Europe / Asia to Australia w QF. What's in it for them?

Have QF tie up with QR and let EK have TT. :)

Neither also has Premium Economy so not a perfect match for QF fares and offerings, albeit BA's PE is not much compared to QF

QF is officially going to tie up with EK. I worry that this is not going to make Qatar very happy/ even worse discouraging them from joining OW. Also what's going to happen to OW flyers flying QF code EK metal? I have a feeling that I won't be able to earn status miles toward CX.

... Also what's going to happen to OW flyers flying QF code EK metal? I have a feeling that I won't be able to earn status miles toward CX.Possibly the same as when on QF number (codeshare) on SAA metal Aust to South Africa.
Nothing new in this. OW airlines have codeshares with non OW airlines

Major announcements today from Qantas including:



JBV with IAG/BA to end.
Major new partnership details with EK, including code sharing, FF plan coordination, schedule synchronization, etc.
Europe - Oz routes to focus on DXB and not SIN; HKG and SIN to be foci for Oz-Asia services
FRA service discontinued


Press releases:

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/media-releases/sep-2012/5440/global/en

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/media-releases/sep-2012/5441/global/en

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/media-releases/sep-2012/5442/global/en

QF is going to have to get permissions from IASC and ACCC for this. Just checked both sites (looking for something else) and nothing yet.

Any guesses when the QF 380s between LHR and DXB will become bookable as oneworld awards?

Back on point. Is this the end of ONEWORLD? The break up of the BA/QF marketing deal can't bode well even though it does reflect the new reality of global flying patterns. Of course, this was inevitable once the Australian and NZ governments gave EK carte blanche to flood the two countries with cheap seats and syphon away customers from once-healthy national carriers. Let this be a warning to all countries who let the EK camel stick more than a snout into the tent!

Back on point. Is this the end of ONEWORLD?

No, this is a logical realignment of QF's international operations and international oneworld focus cities partially as a response to Malaysian joining oneworld. It just doesn't make sense for oneworld to have a focus city in Singapore with a major hub in Kuala Lumpur, so the kangaroo routes are being replaced. QF went shopping for a new international partner to fill that void and improve their revenue projections, it seems EK was their best option (though I would have expected EY).

Back on point. Is this the end of ONEWORLD? The break up of the BA/QF marketing deal can't bode well even though it does reflect the new reality of global flying patterns. Of course, this was inevitable once the Australian and NZ governments gave EK carte blanche to flood the two countries with cheap seats and syphon away customers from once-healthy national carriers. Let this be a warning to all countries who let the EK camel stick more than a snout into the tent!

Why do you think that Qantas and Air New Zealand should have some government/God given right to those customers?

Back on point. Is this the end of ONEWORLD? QF and BA have put out a statement seemingly trying to stress (in addition to a few other things) that this is not the case. See my post on the QF forum:-

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/19266808-post45.html

Especially see this bit: "IAG chief executive Willie Walsh said: “...Qantas has made it clear that its international performance has been weak and the termination of the joint business won’t have any negative impact on IAG’s financial targets. The good relationship that we have with Qantas CEO Alan Joyce and his team will continue through our joint membership of oneworld”.

QF codeshares on BA for e.g. will remain.

One interesting benefit ithat may result would be that a xONE3 ex/via SWP would now be possible. Dubai is in the Europe zone for the Oneworld Explorer fares! ;)

... EK carte blanche to flood the two countries with cheap seats...That ends in April 2013 as part of the terms of the QF/EK partnership is "co-ordination" of fares. This means EK and QF will have the same fares from Oz to Europe (or have mutual veto power on fares they might offer individually on joint routes). Presumably this is the benefit to EK from the QF relationship, as they don't get much more out of it :)

If anything this strengthens Oneworld, by raising fare levels ex-Oz and letting MH turn a profit :) :) :) Maybe the regulators will impose conditions to mitigate the anti-competitive effects, but QF has been building the fake losses story quite effectively. And Joyce let slip that the 787-9 options will be delivered in 2016 provided the EK deal is approved.

One interesting benefit ithat may result would be that a xONE3 ex/via SWP would now be possible. Dubai is in the Europe zone for the Oneworld Explorer fares! ;)No chance. OW will just rule that DXB-Oz overflies Asia (just as ORD-India overflew Europe even if it did not).

One interesting benefit ithat may result would be that a xONE3 ex/via SWP would now be possible. Dubai is in the Europe zone for the Oneworld Explorer fares! ;)No chance. OW will just rule that DXB-Oz overflies Asia (just as ORD-India overflew Europe even if it did not).

As I posted in the relevant thread in the QF forum - I believe this was not the case (ORD-DEL overflying Europe) - see this post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qantas-frequent-flyer/1382824-rumour-qf-ek-announcement-next-week-4.html#post19262733) and the link it has to an old thread

But - as I said in the linked thread - in any case, we will have to wait and see with regard to QF's proposed SWP-Europe* non-stop flights

*Europe - as defined in the xONEx rules, i.e. including the Middle East

No chance. OW will just rule that DXB-Oz overflies Asia (just as ORD-India overflew Europe even if it did not).The old ORD-DEL flight would have allowed a xONE2, which doesn't exist. Thus, a xONE3 had to be charged.

SWP-Europe* non-stop flightsIs this a typo? Everything I could find says SWP is an airport in Namibia.

Is this a typo? Everything I could find says SWP is an airport in Namibia.

It means SouthWestPacific...not airport code...

It means SouthWestPacific...not airport code...
Yup!

See this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/338667-oneworld-explorer-ticket-faqs.html

The old ORD-DEL flight would have allowed a xONE2, which doesn't exist. Thus, a xONE3 had to be charged.

True but they could have made the xONE2 a special case charging the xONE3 minimum rather that charging for a continent that you never touched for all cases.

True but they could have made the xONE2 a special case charging the xONE3 minimum rather that charging for a continent that you never touched for all cases.

That is essentailly what they did. There was no mention of an additional continent in the rule, which was:4(m) Nonstop transatlantic travel on AA between DEL and ORD is permitted.
For travel ex South America/South West Pacific - when this service is utilised a minimum of a 4 Continent Fare must be charged.
For travel ex North America/Asia - when this service is utilised a minimum of a 3 continent fare must be charged.

Oneworld RTW tickets allow the following flights:
xGLOBnn: AA/AB/AY/AS/BA/CX/EI/FJ/GF/HG/IB/IG/IT/JL/KA/LA/MH/NU/QF/RJ/S7/XL/4M + QF coded JQ, TN, SA, VN
xONEx: AA/AB/AY/BA/CX/HG/IB/JL/KA/LA/NU/QF/RJ/S7/XL/4M + QF coded JQ

Possible that QF coded EK might be added?

Oneworld RTW tickets allow the following flights:
xGLOBnn: AA/AB/AY/AS/BA/CX/EI/FJ/GF/HG/IB/IG/IT/JL/KA/LA/MH/NU/QF/RJ/S7/XL/4M + QF coded JQ, TN, SA, VN
xONEx: AA/AB/AY/BA/CX/HG/IB/JL/KA/LA/NU/QF/RJ/S7/XL/4M + QF coded JQ

Possible that QF coded EK might be added?

I would say no chance for xONEx. QF owns 100% of JQ... Note none of the other Jetstar franchises (minority owned)
Maybe for an xGLOB but I still doubt it.

Just called BAEC Gold line and asked about TP earnings on Jetconnect flights that I have in May. She said they are not sure at the moment because Qantas is leaving oneworld by the end of next month and they are figuring out how old bookings with Qantas should be given TPs.

Anyone have more info about Qantas leaving ow?

Just called BAEC Gold line and asked about TP earnings on Jetconnect flights that I have in May. She said they are not sure at the moment because Qantas is leaving oneworld by the end of next month and they are figuring out how old bookings with Qantas should be given TPs.

Anyone have more info about Qantas leaving ow?

...???

Just called BAEC Gold line and asked about TP earnings on Jetconnect flights that I have in May. She said they are not sure at the moment because Qantas is leaving oneworld by the end of next month and they are figuring out how old bookings with Qantas should be given TPs.

Anyone have more info about Qantas leaving ow?Qantas is not leaving oneworld. The QF/BA Joint Service Agreement is ending.

Just called BAEC Gold line and asked about TP earnings on Jetconnect flights that I have in May. She said they are not sure at the moment because Qantas is leaving oneworld by the end of next month and they are figuring out how old bookings with Qantas should be given TPs.

Anyone have more info about Qantas leaving ow?
Jetconnect flights should credit to BAEC, are you flying on the BA code?

Jetconnect credit as normal QF flights.

Jetconnect credit as normal QF flights.

Just to be clear: Also Tier Points?

Just to be clear: Also Tier Points?Jetconnect is a oneworld affiliate, so yes.

Just to be clear: Also Tier Points?Jetconnect is a oneworld affiliate, so yes.
Jetconnect for all practical purposes as is Qantas. Affiliate does not come into play.

Jetconnect planes are in full Qantas colours and staff wear Qantas uniforms.
About the only difference is that the flag on the plane is missing a star (ie. a NZ flag rather than an Australian one)

Ppl may be confused between jet connect and jet star.... Jetconnect is qantas.... Jetconnect does not have its own code, does not have a sales office or fare structure, all it does is to bypass Australian laws on hiring NZ based staff at lower cost....

While jet star is JQ, a whole different airline owned by qantas....

Jetconnect does not have its own codeYes it does. The Qantas and Jetconnect IATA codes are the same, but their ICAO codes and callsigns are different. (QF, QFA, Qantas and QF, QNZ, Qantas Jetconnect)
Whereas Jetstar has the following:

JQ, JST, Jetstar
BL, PIC, Pacific
GK, JJP, Orange Liner
JM, JKT, Kai Tak
3K, JSA, Jetstar Asia

Yes it does. The Qantas and Jetconnect IATA codes are the same, but their ICAO codes and callsigns are different. (QF, QFA, Qantas and QF, QNZ, Qantas Jetconnect)
Whereas Jetstar has the following:

JQ, JST, Jetstar
BL, PIC, Pacific
GK, JJP, Orange Liner
JM, JKT, Kai Tak
3K, JSA, Jetstar Asia

......... IATA codes are the ones we are talking about, since it is about partner miles accruals....

The proposed Jetstar Hong Kong

JM, JKT, Kai Tak

Old Air Jamaica code,
and a very interesting callsign