SAS EuroBonus - SAS introduces fee for paying with credit card

2,2% from October.
What a joke, increase the ticket price by 2% instead.
http://www.aftenposten.no/reise/article4281339.ece

Fra oktober 2012 innfører SAS kredittkortgebyr på lik linje med lavprisselskaper som Norwegian og Ryanair.

Uansett hvilken kjøpskanal du benytter, vil gebyr for kredittkort belastes kunden.



Priseksempler:

Flyreise til 1000 kroner utløser 22 kroner i gebyr.

Flyreise til 5000 kroner utløser 110 kroner i gebyr.

Flyreise til 10.000 kroner utløser 220 kroner i gebyr.

Flyreise til 20.000 kroner utløser 440 kroner i gebyr.

*For hver flyreise du bestiller kommer et tillegg på 2,2 prosent av kjøpesummen, vel å merke bare når du betaler med kredittkort.

Wow, the blatant lack of business sense is unfathomable. As you say, a flat 2% increase would benefit them across all purchases, regardless of the payment card used.

Seems like cost-cutting has given them tunnel vision.

Does SAS codeshare with any other airlines?

If so, how will this work if the ticket is booked with the codeshare?

Book your ticket on a French website, I think it is not possible to have different prices depending on the means of payment. They can however refuse to accept some means of payment.

DY doesn't charge a credit card fee when you pay with a Bank Norwegian Credit Card. SK should do the same with the Eurobounus Credit cards.

DY doesn't charge a credit card fee when you pay with a Bank Norwegian Credit Card. SK should do the same with the Eurobounus Credit cards.

Brilliant suggestion (even though I don't hold a EB credit card). You should email them and suggest it ;)

don't ever buy a ticket on SAS!!!

DY doesn't charge a credit card fee when you pay with a Bank Norwegian Credit Card. SK should do the same with the Eurobounus Credit cards.

I guess it makes sense for SK to at least give EBS and EBG a free pass on the charges.

So this is not the OPC non sense that AB and LH Group do but just a charge?

Nice timing with the Visa/Mastercard settlement.

Blue1 does a flat fee for credit cards as far as I remember... Choices of airlines that dont charge for CC use are growing smaller... Though all tickets should be booked uding a CC as airlines are dropping left and right...

Now I have a good excuse to burn my EB miles :)

I do like the suggestion of no fees with EB branded credit cards!!

The fee appears quite steep. OT: AY charges €5 + 1% of the total ticket price when paying with Amex, DC, MC/EC, or VISA. But only from reservations made from Finland :mad::mad::mad:! For everywhere else it is around €5 per ticket irrespective of the cost of ticket.

What can be done to make SK change their mind?

Nothing.

I guess SAS needs to change their marketing message: http://www.flysas.com/en/Travel_info/Always-with-SAS/?WT.ac=Start_Always_with_SAS

**quote**
No hidden fees
When you buy a ticket with SAS, we don't expect you to pay any hidden or unwanted extras.
Taxes and fees are included in the total price. There are no extra fees when you pay by credit card.

**Suggested new text**
Some hidden fees
When you buy a ticket with SAS, we expect you to pay hidden and unwanted extras: There are extra fees when you pay by credit card, and we may like to charge you extra for arriving on-time too as we are amongst the most punctual airlines, so this is an easy cash cow for us.

They already charge a ticketing fee if you buy on sas.se, etc. but if you buy on flysas.com US website there is no fee. I wonder if they will do it on the US site. This is completely unacceptable in the US as a business practice, so I think they realize that they won't get away with it in the US market. There is nothing stopping you from using the US website, but if your CC give a crappy exchange to USD then there is no point. I have USD denominated CCs so it's the best option for me anyway.

In Denmark they even do it at upscale restaurants. It's pathetic.

A number of negative comments on the SAS Facebook page, but the only comment from the flunky "responding" is: SAS Hej N.N. Tack för dina synpunkter. Vi önskar dig en fortsatt bra dag. /AP

(Hello! Thanks for your comments. We wish you a nice day)

Co-branded cards, especially AmEx, have been heavily marketed here in Norway. Several people have asked about the situation concerning co-branded credit cards, but the person "answering" on SAS' behalf on Facebook has not deigned to give an answer to that question...

What's the purpose of Danish issued Diners Club SAS cards then?
Maybe they'll waive the fee for these co-branded cards?

So what form of payment do they take where there is no fee? Do they want people to walk into their sales offices and hand over cash?

So what form of payment do they take where there is no fee? Do they want people to walk into their sales offices and hand over cash?

Turkish airlines in Japan only takes cash if you book through their local office. But you can do a cash bank transfer. It wouldn't surprise if the local SK office is the same. Never tried to deal with them, although I recall a hefty fee like 5000 yen if you use them.

So what form of payment do they take where there is no fee? Do they want people to walk into their sales offices and hand over cash?

They'll probably use some sort of direct bank transfer, I have seen it on other websites but never used it and hopefully never will.

Not quite sure what is worse, the ridiculous flat fees that LH uses or 2.2% which I think is very much on the high side.

So what form of payment do they take where there is no fee? Do they want people to walk into their sales offices and hand over cash?
They claim that debit cards can be used without incurring the fee.

They claim that debit cards can be used without incurring the fee.

Yes, probably a debit card issued exclusively by certain banks in Greenland for residents of Tajikistan and then claim they offer payment methods that don't incur fees...

Yes, probably a debit card issued exclusively by certain banks in Greenland for residents of Tajikistan and then claim they offer payment methods that don't incur fees...
Hehe, no. Debit Cards are very common in Norway. Actually that has been a problem for foreigners shopping at supermarkets here, because many card terminals only take BankAxept (a domestic debit card) not VISA/ MC etc. AFAIK the situation is similar in Denmark (Dankort) and Germany (EC-Karte), which "everyone" possesses, and thus no need to offer CC-alternatives.

Many (most?) debit cards issued here are combined BankAxept/ VISA (rarer: MC), so many Norwegians believe that they are payng with their VISA Card, when in reality they are paying with their debit cards (the comments on general Norwegian newssites make this clear).

I have no doubt that SAS will make payment with debit cards easy, and they have stated today that they will attempt to introduce a electronic banking solution.

If its a true OPC, then they will abolish the 'service fee' and have to offer atleast one 'free' payment option, ie something like giropay, postgirot, bankgirot, egiro etc.

In the US, there is no legal framework to offer giropay systems yet, so most airlines still offer CC payment as the only option, hence no way to introduce the 'optional' payment charge (yet!).

Confirmed by SAS to Danish media: From October there will (for customers in Denmark (cards issued in Denmark??)) be a credit card fee of 1,8 %. No fee on debit cards (Dankort) or bank transfers.

SAS says, that these fees cost the company 200-300 mio. DKK a year.

SAS says, that these fees cost the company 200-300 mio. DKK a year.

That seems like a poor justification. In my opinion, it's a cost of doing business. They also spend money on soap for the lavs. Should they start charging a surcharge to customers who want to wash their hands?

I guess this won't affect me anyway, as I don't see them getting away with this in the US where all carriers take credit cards without a surcharge (to my knowledge).

That seems like a poor justification. In my opinion, it's a cost of doing business. They also spend money on soap for the lavs. Should they start charging a surcharge to customers who want to wash their hands?

+1. SAS gives their pax free tea and coffee and now they charge people for using CC :D

Surprising initiative from SAS when it is illegal in Sweden to charge extra for credit card payments since August 1, 2010.
Quite negative impression when customers in specific countries are discriminated with extra charges.
(Swedish Consumer Agency describing the law (www.konsumentverket.se/lag-ratt/din-ratt-som-konsument/kortavgifter), sorry Swedish only.)

They already charge a ticketing fee if you buy on sas.se, etc. but if you buy on flysas.com US website there is no fee. I wonder if they will do it on the US site. This is completely unacceptable in the US as a business practice, so I think they realize that they won't get away with it in the US market. There is nothing stopping you from using the US website, but if your CC give a crappy exchange to USD then there is no point. I have USD denominated CCs so it's the best option for me anyway.

In Denmark they even do it at upscale restaurants. It's pathetic.

Can you buy a ticket on the flysas.com US website with a US-based CC if your flight originates in Scandinavia? If so, that would be the solution for me, but I've often run into issues where the price is quoted and charged in DKK even when I'm booking on a US airline's website (eg. UA or CO in the past) with my US-based card, using a US billing address, just because the outbound flight is from Denmark.

Susan

I always bought any SK ticket from SAS USA to avoid the 'service' fee, even for domestic tickets. :D Earlier the availability for regional flights in lower booking classes was better with SAS US, but Amadeus Altea has fixed that loophole.

Good to know, thanks!

I always bought any SK ticket from SAS USA to avoid the 'service' fee, even for domestic tickets. :D Earlier the availability for regional flights in lower booking classes was better with SAS US, but Amadeus Altea has fixed that loophole.

If you buy it from SAS USA, what currency will they bill you in?

Surprising initiative from SAS when it is illegal in Sweden to charge extra for credit card payments since August 1, 2010.
Quite negative impression when customers in specific countries are discriminated with extra charges.
(Swedish Consumer Agency describing the law (www.konsumentverket.se/lag-ratt/din-ratt-som-konsument/kortavgifter), sorry Swedish only.)

Wow I didn't know that, but the problem is that if I'm flying from CPH, it will make sense to use DKK as the billing currency, right?

Wow I didn't know that, but the problem is that if I'm flying from CPH, it will make sense to use DKK as the billing currency, right?

Airlines generally use a "good" interbank rate. The only reason that you would want DKK is because your CC might take several % for the exchange.

Fortunately, I have a US credit card that uses interbank rate and no % fee.

Re the comment about booking with UA ex CPH. That's definitely not the case if you use united.com. Always quote you in USD.

p.s. It says "Please select your location or where you receive credit card billing statements to see pricing in your local currency." on UA's website at the drop-down to select country. It's the same for most airlines. I just purchased IST-CPH one way on UA's website in USD. That way I avoided silly "processing fees" that I would have gotten on the TK site and the fare was quoted in USD. Not as a codeshare ticket, BTW.

Airlines generally use a "good" interbank rate. The only reason that you would want DKK is because your CC might take several % for the exchange.

Fortunately, I have a US credit card that uses interbank rate and no % fee.

Re the comment about booking with UA ex CPH. That's definitely not the case if you use united.com and login with your US based profile. Always quote you in USD.

I used to the possibility for buying ticket at the DK site vs SE site and it always ends up cheaper to buy it in DKK vs SEK.

The weird thing is that when I use a card that has 0% fee it still ends up the same as those who has fees.

I used to the possibility for buying ticket at the DK site vs SE site and it always ends up cheaper to buy it in DKK vs SEK.

The weird thing is that when I use a card that has 0% fee it still ends up the same as those who has fees.

Probably the no fee bank doesn't give you an interbank rate? They may not have a "fee" but it is baked into their exchange rate.

If you buy it from SAS USA, what currency will they bill you in?

They charge in USD. I normally use http://www.oanda.com/lang/de/currency/converter/ to convert the USD rate into € and add the 2-3% interbank rate using a setting there.

I always bought any SK ticket from SAS USA to avoid the 'service' fee, even for domestic tickets. :D Earlier the availability for regional flights in lower booking classes was better with SAS US, but Amadeus Altea has fixed that loophole.

Slightly OT, do you also get 24h cancellation via the US website?

Slightly OT, do you also get 24h cancellation via the US website?

Yes, its the same booking engine.

I always bought any SK ticket from SAS USA to avoid the 'service' fee, even for domestic tickets. :D Earlier the availability for regional flights in lower booking classes was better with SAS US, but Amadeus Altea has fixed that loophole.

But regarding the new credit card fee – I suppose it will be related to the issuing country of the credit card, not the web domain extension???

(so a Danish Mastercard will get a 1,8 % fee when paying at sas.se and a Swedish issued one will get no fee at sas.dk).

Or what?

But regarding the new credit card fee – I suppose it will be related to the issuing country of the credit card, not the web domain extension???

(so a Danish Mastercard will get a 1,8 % fee when paying at sas.se and a Swedish issued one will get no fee at sas.dk).

Or what?

My guess is that they might do it like LH - based on where you will be flying from (which is bad for people living in Sweden but ex CPH), otherwise all Scandinavian will be using sas.se since there is no fee for using CC :D

I doubt that you can use a Swedish card without a fee on sas.dk - foreign cards are charged a fee of 5% in Denmark.

They charge in USD. I normally use http://www.oanda.com/lang/de/currency/converter/ to convert the USD rate into € and add the 2-3% interbank rate using a setting there.

No, they definitely don't add 2-3%. Like I said, it's pretty much the interbank rate that you find on oanda.com.

Let's take an example. ARN-CPH one way next week. USD 127.99 on the US site and SEK 870 plus SEK 30 fee = SEK 900. So for this cheap ticket you are paying 3.5% service fee but let's focus on the base fare.

The current bid/ask according to my online broker is 6.778/6.784. The recent trade was 6.8043. According to Oanda the average ask for the 24 hr period ending 22:00 UTC Aug 1 was 6.78503. That equals SEK 868.42, which is less than 870. So, it's clear that SAS is using something very close to the interbank rate (not plus minus X%) for the USD fares. The USD has been weakening over the last few days so the slightly lower cost in USD reflects that SAS is slightly behind in adjusting the exchange rate. With a strengthening USD you will probably find the SEK price to be slightly lower.

I checked this several years ago and so it remains the same with SAS. I did the same exercise when buying a RTW ex Japan via *A (effectively LH). Here a few % equals a few hundred USD. The fare is in JPY but the *A price quoted in USD (select country of residence) was spot on the interbank. And again a JPY purchaser is hit with a 4000 or 5000 yen service fee while it is USD 20 for a USD purchase.

My guess is that they might do it like LH - based on where you will be flying from (which is bad for people living in Sweden but ex CPH), otherwise all Scandinavian will be using sas.se since there is no fee for using CC :D

I doubt that you can use a Swedish card without a fee on sas.dk - foreign cards are charged a fee of 5% in Denmark.

I think you are extrapolating rotten business practices by typically small Danish businesses. 5% seems a lot. I think that I have seen 3%.

But if you go to a place like the Hilton then there is no credit card fee. And I am pretty sure that sas.dk is not going to charge you a CC fee.

The next time in CPH I was thinking of going to eat at Soelleroed Kro. On their website it warns that they charge a fee for credit cards (not just foreign). This is one of the most expensive restaurants in DK and they want to nickel and dime their customers?

I have never seen this practice elsewhere in the world. It's really petty.

Here's an article discussing that is banned elsewhere in the EU:

http://www.scancomark.se/Market/How-tourist-pay-very-high-Credit-Card-fees-in-Denmark.html

p.s. The best way to handle this is to view CC fees as a cost of doing business then offer a discount for cash.

No, they definitely don't add 2-3%. Like I said, it's pretty much the interbank rate that you find on oanda.com.



You misunderstood me. My € credit card charges 2-3% extra on the USD, so when I compare a ticket on sas.se, sas.de and sas USA, I fire up oanda to have the final € price it would cost me.

My guess is that they might do it like LH - based on where you will be flying from (which is bad for people living in Sweden but ex CPH), otherwise all Scandinavian will be using sas.se since there is no fee for using CC :D

If you are signed in using a LH-usa.com user profile and get redirected to the LH Germany webstore based on point of origin, they don't charge OPC ;)

If you are signed in using a LH-usa.com user profile and get redirected to the LH Germany webstore based on point of origin, they don't charge OPC ;)

Thanks Oliver! It's nice to know that I can avoid OPC^

So, it's clear that SAS is using something very close to the interbank rate (not plus minus X%) for the USD fares.

The rules about exchange rate are not decided by SAS but by IATA. First you have the IATA ROE (Rate of exchange) that converts a published fare in NUC. These rates are usually updated once a month based on an average exchange rate the previous month, or something like that.

Then you add up all the NUCs (if you fly ARN CDG HEL, ARN CDG would be a fare in SEK and CDG HEL in EUR) and you use the reverse ROE to convert into the currency of country of departure, here SEK. There are rules regarding rounding in each currency, I think it is the next 5 or 10 SEK here. Then, this fare is converted into the currency of country of purchase using a different exchange rate, the Bankers Sellers Rate. This rate is updated more frequently than the ROE, weekly usually and is directly related to currency pairs, without passing through a neutral unit of conversion (NUC).

Then, when some currencies fluctuate widely or in case of devaluation, there can be discrepancies depending on the point of sale and fare calculation rules, it is what happened with the devaluation of the Myanmar Kyat (check the ex-RGN thread in mileage run discussions).

Of course, on top of that, you need to add the fees the banks or cards issuer are taking for currency conversion. Most often, for Scandinavian debit cards, it is 1%. AMEX usually takes 2-3% depending on the foreign currency.

But if you go to a place like the Hilton then there is no credit card fee. And I am pretty sure that sas.dk is not going to charge you a CC fee.

The next time in CPH I was thinking of going to eat at Soelleroed Kro. On their website it warns that they charge a fee for credit cards (not just foreign). This is one of the most expensive restaurants in DK and they want to nickel and dime their customers?

I have never seen this practice elsewhere in the world. It's really petty.



It varies a lot in Denmark. I recently got the SAS MasterCard and I'm charged 0.75% at most supermarkets and petrol stations, but I wasn't charged a fee at Ikea or most housewares / department stores, or mid-range restaurants, nor the pharmacy or mobile broadband company. Also I don't think I've been charged a fee when making an online purchase within Denmark.

It surprises me that Soelleroed Kro charges the fee and agree this is petty.

Susan

It varies a lot in Denmark. I recently got the SAS MasterCard and I'm charged 0.75% at most supermarkets and petrol stations, but I wasn't charged a fee at Ikea or most housewares / department stores, or mid-range restaurants, nor the pharmacy or mobile broadband company. Also I don't think I've been charged a fee when making an online purchase within Denmark.

It surprises me that Soelleroed Kro charges the fee and agree this is petty.

Susan

At least they tell you in advance so you can bring cash, it's petty but at least they warn you about that in advance.

0.75% is very little - I thought Bilka charges something like 2% for using CC. I remembered it's 5% for foreign cards.

Ikea in Germany doesn't even take CC - Mr. Nacho's colleague was in an Ikea to shop for furnitures for his holiday apartment in Berlin, and when he was checking out with a bunch of furnitures he was told to pay cash or EC card. He has neither of them so he had to leave his things behind to get cash.

I
The next time in CPH I was thinking of going to eat at Soelleroed Kro. On their website it warns that they charge a fee for credit cards (not just foreign). This is one of the most expensive restaurants in DK and they want to nickel and dime their customers?


The Danes and their petty charges. Some restaurants charge to drink tap water with a meal and it was the Danish courts that required SK to have a 30 kroner service charge for online booking.

Here in Norway, credit card fees are not common and many credit card companies give cash back on purchases. I get 1% back with Visa Trumf.

It'll be interesting to see how SK tries to impose the CC fee with all the possible international loopholes.

Luckily you can get around this for now by using a HKG based travel agent.
The CC charge doesn't apply.

Luckily you can get around this for now by using a HKG based travel agent.
The CC charge doesn't apply.

How?

The Danes and their petty charges. Some restaurants charge to drink tap water with a meal and it was the Danish courts that required SK to have a 30 kroner service charge for online booking.

Here in Norway, credit card fees are not common and many credit card companies give cash back on purchases. I get 1% back with Visa Trumf.

It'll be interesting to see how SK tries to impose the CC fee with all the possible international loopholes.

To be honest I don't really care what charge they have - all I look at was the price I pay at the end of the day. I don't care what the fee is as long as it's the cheapest I can get.

Yes, the tap water thing is amazing. It's how Danish restaurants earn their $ on - drinks. I even saw that in a McDonald's in Odense, they charge DKK 15 for a cup of tap water.

I don't know if you realise: more and more Danish malls stop having cold water for washing hands in toilets. My kids was screaming quite a few times because the water is warmer than lukewarm. I think it's the mall's way to deter people drinking tap water instead of paying DKK 10 for a bottle of water in the supermarket.

My Swedish CC also gives 1% cash back and there is no annual fee, plus travel insurance if you buy flights tickets using the CC.

Once a month? I purchased an ARN-CPH one way for $96.92 last week and now the ticket is $98.51 (same T class fare available).

Found this: "IATA Rates of Exchange (IROE) provides monthly updates of IATA currency rates of exchange used by the industry for fare/rate construction. They are built based on the average of the five banking days ending on the 10th of each month."

Surely they can't have updated it since last week if they follow this method. It looks to me that SAS is tracking the exchange rate more frequently.

The rules about exchange rate are not decided by SAS but by IATA. First you have the IATA ROE (Rate of exchange) that converts a published fare in NUC. These rates are usually updated once a month based on an average exchange rate the previous month, or something like that.

Then you add up all the NUCs (if you fly ARN CDG HEL, ARN CDG would be a fare in SEK and CDG HEL in EUR) and you use the reverse ROE to convert into the currency of country of departure, here SEK. There are rules regarding rounding in each currency, I think it is the next 5 or 10 SEK here. Then, this fare is converted into the currency of country of purchase using a different exchange rate, the Bankers Sellers Rate. This rate is updated more frequently than the ROE, weekly usually and is directly related to currency pairs, without passing through a neutral unit of conversion (NUC).

Then, when some currencies fluctuate widely or in case of devaluation, there can be discrepancies depending on the point of sale and fare calculation rules, it is what happened with the devaluation of the Myanmar Kyat (check the ex-RGN thread in mileage run discussions).

Of course, on top of that, you need to add the fees the banks or cards issuer are taking for currency conversion. Most often, for Scandinavian debit cards, it is 1%. AMEX usually takes 2-3% depending on the foreign currency.

Sure, enough, Noma also charges a CC fee. 5% for Amex according to this article. Are they also suggesting that it varies based on the card type?

http://www.andyhayler.com/show_restaurant.asp?id=625

Part of this problem is probably that the credit card fees for merchants are high in Denmark and I suspect it has something to do with the monopoly of this outfit PBS or whatever it is called. The old joke was that "monopoltilsynet" in Denmark is there to ensure that the monopolies are maintained.

I don't know if you realise: more and more Danish malls stop having cold water for washing hands in toilets. My kids was screaming quite a few times because the water is warmer than lukewarm. I think it's the mall's way to deter people drinking tap water instead of paying DKK 10 for a bottle of water in the supermarket.

This is a pet peeve of mine - the disappearance of drinking fountains in public areas to increase the sales of bottled water. I suspect airports are doing that, especially after the rule of no liquids through security. In the intl terminal OSL, there used to be a few water fountains that dribbled enough water to partially fill a water bottle. They often don't work now and the public rest rooms dispense warm water that's not refreshing (I recently found out that the handicap WC dispenses cold water).

You'd think with all the talk of global warming governments would require public fountains in public areas to avoid eco-unfriendly bottled water and allow citizens to have access to the water they already have paid for through taxes.

This is a pet peeve of mine - the disappearance of drinking fountains in public areas to increase the sales of bottled water. I suspect airports are doing that, especially after the rule of no liquids through security. In the intl terminal OSL, there used to be a few water fountains that dribbled enough water to partially fill a water bottle. They often don't work now and the public rest rooms dispense warm water that's not refreshing (I recently found out that the handicap WC dispenses cold water).

You'd think with all the talk of global warming governments would require public fountains in public areas to avoid eco-unfriendly bottled water and allow citizens to have access to the water they already have paid for through taxes.

I even checked handicap WC for cold water - nope, warm/hot water only. The only place you can always get cold water is baby changing room because they can't afford to burn baby bums :D

I think the liquid restriction will never be lifted because it's too much money tax free shops in airports are enjoying this restriction - thirsty travellers, travellers get their toiletteries confiscated etc.

Once at MMX Mr. Nacho empty bottle was confiscated :td: He forgot to take the lid out.

For the global warming thing, the government will think, if I can sell a bottle of water for DKK 10, I'll get DKK 2.5 in tax. No problem with recycling since there is 'pant' on all bottles anyway. Smart for the government to double charge us.

I even checked handicap WC for cold water - nope, warm/hot water only.

Well, I'd rather have warm/hot water to wash my hands after using the rest room, than have only cold water available. I've been in public toilets both in Europe and the U.S. where the only tap water for hand-washing was cold, and I don't find this very sanitizing.

Ikea in Germany doesn't even take CC - Mr. Nacho's colleague was in an Ikea to shop for furnitures for his holiday apartment in Berlin, and when he was checking out with a bunch of furnitures he was told to pay cash or EC card. He has neither of them so he had to leave his things behind to get cash.

Since this thread has covered a broad spectrum, let me add one more aspect: If you want to earn miles on Ikea purchases in Germany, buy Ikea Giftcards using the qipu link: http://www.qipu.de/cashback/geschenkkartenwelt_de_-_ikea/ You pay with a mile credit card with no extra fee and ger 3.75% cash back on giftcard purchases ;)

Well, I'd rather have warm/hot water to wash my hands after using the rest room

+1

Well, I'd rather have warm/hot water to wash my hands after using the rest room, than have only cold water available. I've been in public toilets both in Europe and the U.S. where the only tap water for hand-washing was cold, and I don't find this very sanitizing.

I think the maill shouldn't disable the temperature adjusting function - my kids was screaming when they were washing their hand in a mall toilet - the tap had only really hot water came out. I thought they were joking and when I tried it myself it was hot (I can really stand hot water).

I'd rather have the water too cold than too hot.

Well, I'd rather have warm/hot water to wash my hands after using the rest room, than have only cold water available. I've been in public toilets both in Europe and the U.S. where the only tap water for hand-washing was cold, and I don't find this very sanitizing.

It shouldn't be an either/or proposition. In Scandinavia, it used to be that all restrooms had taps that went from cold to hot - that's the case with the handicap WCs at OSL. The change now is to warm water only, perhaps to promote the sale of bottled water (which you may have to pay an extra fee for if you pay by credit card in Denmark) .

If you're worried about sanitation, you're better off using a hand sanitizer - after you've touched the bathroom exit door knob.

Once a month? I purchased an ARN-CPH one way for $96.92 last week and now the ticket is $98.51 (same T class fare available).

Found this: "IATA Rates of Exchange (IROE) provides monthly updates of IATA currency rates of exchange used by the industry for fare/rate construction. They are built based on the average of the five banking days ending on the 10th of each month."

Surely they can't have updated it since last week if they follow this method. It looks to me that SAS is tracking the exchange rate more frequently.

Well, either I was not clear enough, either you have not read carefully what I wrote. The IROE is used to convert from currency to NUC. ARN CPH fare is in SEK. It is then converted to NUC using ROE and then back to currency of country of departure, Sweden, so SEK, using the reverse ROE => no difference. So whatever the ROE, it does not change anything, the fare excluding taxes is still the same. Then, it is converted into currency of country of purchase, USD, using the BSR which is different from the ROE. This one varies more often and depend from country to country, but it is usually updated weekly using Tuesday data with effect from the following Wednesday.

Difference in USD could be due to the following:
- fare increase in SEK by SAS (not likely)
- increase of taxes (could happen)
- update of the USD/SEK BSR (very likely)

Very detailed info from Lufthansa, following IATA resolutions:
http://www.lufthansa-usa.com/travel_agent/Currency_Regulations_Mar11.pdf

I have no idea about Denmark but at least in Sweden I can take out extra cash in most supermarkets while paying with any credit card. Even if you include the fees, I am sure the stores don't lose money, transporting large amounts of cash to the bank every night isn't free either. Seems like the opposite to charging extra CC fees.

I have no idea about Denmark but at least in Sweden I can take out extra cash in most supermarkets while paying with any credit card. Even if you include the fees, I am sure the stores don't lose money, transporting large amounts of cash to the bank every night isn't free either. Seems like the opposite to charging extra CC fees.

What you said shows that CC fee is not based on %, otherwise you won't be able to draw cash in supermakets.

What you said shows that CC fee is not based on %, otherwise you won't be able to draw cash in supermakets.

Not necessarily. I am quite sure there is a fixed transaction fee + a variable charge based on the amount processed. You will notice that some smaller places have a minimum amount for card payments. Visa for sure sees more of a 10'000 SEK ticket than a 1'000 SEK one.

My point is, stores that add CC charges act like cash payments do not incur transaction costs - having Securitas pick up your daily intake isn't exactly free nor is insurance against robbery. My local bank in Sweden doesn't even handle cash over the counter any more, they tell you to use the ATM or take out cash at the supermarket, or simply use your credit card! There really is a huge push to eliminate cash in everyday transactions.

Not necessarily. I am quite sure there is a fixed transaction fee + a variable charge based on the amount processed. You will notice that some smaller places have a minimum amount for card payments. Visa for sure sees more of a 10'000 SEK ticket than a 1'000 SEK one.

My point is, stores that add CC charges act like cash payments do not incur transaction costs - having Securitas pick up your daily intake isn't exactly free nor is insurance against robbery. My local bank in Sweden doesn't even handle cash over the counter any more, they tell you to use the ATM or take out cash at the supermarket, or simply use your credit card! There really is a huge push to eliminate cash in everyday transactions.

I think for big corporations like SAS the fee is fixed based on number of transaction.

Once I shopped in a factory selling chocobullar and we didn't realise there is a charge for SEK 5 for using credit card.

I have no idea about Denmark but at least in Sweden I can take out extra cash in most supermarkets while paying with any credit card. Even if you include the fees, I am sure the stores don't lose money, transporting large amounts of cash to the bank every night isn't free either. Seems like the opposite to charging extra CC fees.

I only tried it once just after I got my SK-branded MasterCard, where I asked for DK 200 in cash over and above my supermarket purchases, and I was told it could not be authorized on a MasterCard. I wanted to test to see if cash withdrawn would result in SAS points. :)

I haven't tried it since, so I don't know if that is the general policy or was only at the particular store I was in at the time.

It will be interesting to try it in Sweden, next time I'm making a purchase in a shop there. Instead of drawing cash from an ATM in Sweden with my Dankort which I do from time-to-time, I will try it along with making a purchase on my MasterCard, and see what the fees are as well as whether I get SK points.

I only tried it once just after I got my SK-branded MasterCard, where I asked for DK 200 in cash over and above my supermarket purchases, and I was told it could not be authorized on a MasterCard. I wanted to test to see if cash withdrawn would result in SAS points. :)

I haven't tried it since, so I don't know if that is the general policy or was only at the particular store I was in at the time.

It will be interesting to try it in Sweden, next time I'm making a purchase in a shop there. Instead of drawing cash from an ATM in Sweden with my Dankort which I do from time-to-time, I will try it along with making a purchase on my MasterCard, and see what the fees are as well as whether I get SK points.

SAS master card (danish ones) doesn't give you points for taking out cash - just like the Swedish CC that gives you bonus - you don't get the bonus when you take cash out. Not sure how they can implement it but they do.

I only tried it once just after I got my SK-branded MasterCard, where I asked for DK 200 in cash over and above my supermarket purchases, and I was told it could not be authorized on a MasterCard. I wanted to test to see if cash withdrawn would result in SAS points. :)


Doing that would be a cash advance and, as far as I know, you can't get mileage points for that.

Here in Norway, the SK branded MasterCard has occasionally had campaigns with free cash advances without any fees or interest. They made it very clear that you would not get EB points with cash advances.

2,2% from October.
What a joke, increase the ticket price by 2% instead.
http://www.aftenposten.no/reise/article4281339.ece

SAS said to Swedish media yesterday ( http://mobil.svd.se/rss.jsp?rssid=25505121&item=http%3a%2f%2fwww.svd.se%2f%3fservice%3dmobile %26articleId%3d7383844&cid=184981 ) that a fee of about 2% will be introduced for credit cards in most markets in Europe incl. Denmark, Norway and Finland, but SAS has no plans whatsoever to introduce a credit card fee in Sweden! Why Sweden is exempt is not stated in the article.

Not necessarily. I am quite sure there is a fixed transaction fee + a variable charge based on the amount processed. You will notice that some smaller places have a minimum amount for card payments. Visa for sure sees more of a 10'000 SEK ticket than a 1'000 SEK one.

My point is, stores that add CC charges act like cash payments do not incur transaction costs - having Securitas pick up your daily intake isn't exactly free nor is insurance against robbery. My local bank in Sweden doesn't even handle cash over the counter any more, they tell you to use the ATM or take out cash at the supermarket, or simply use your credit card! There really is a huge push to eliminate cash in everyday transactions.

In Sweden there are two types of cards.
Debit cards - which debit your bank account immediately after the transaction.
Credit cards - which you normally pay off via invoice at the end of the following month.

Businesses accepting cards generally pay 2-3 SEK per transaction on a debit card and 2-3 SEK + 2% per transaction on a credit card.

Credit cards have a fee on the card holder when withdrawing cash, debit card does not.

With that said, I think it's sad that SAS is introducing a fee when using credit cards to buy tickets in many countries. They need to differentiate from the LCC's, not copy them one step at a time.

SAS said to Swedish media yesterday ( http://mobil.svd.se/rss.jsp?rssid=25505121&item=http%3a%2f%2fwww.svd.se%2f%3fservice%3dmobile %26articleId%3d7383844&cid=184981 ) that a fee of about 2% will be introduced for credit cards in most markets in Europe incl. Denmark, Norway and Finland, but SAS has no plans whatsoever to introduce a credit card fee in Sweden! Why Sweden is exempt is not stated in the article.

Because there is a law against charging such a fee in sweden.

Because there is a law against charging such a fee in sweden.

Does it mean that everyone can just book through sas.se to avoid the fee?

Does it mean that everyone can just book through sas.se to avoid the fee?

I would assume that SK implements the same segmentation of the market as others (LH, AY, ...) have done - Trying to book a ticket from the swedish site with flight origin of another country will redirect the purchase to that country's site, adding applicable fees of that country. (I am just guessing here)

I would assume that SK implements the same segmentation of the market as others (LH, AY, ...) have done - Trying to book a ticket from the swedish site with flight origin of another country will redirect the purchase to that country's site, adding applicable fees of that country. (I am just guessing here)

I can see that you are living in Sweden too and use CPH as a hub, if that's the case we'll be treated as if we are using a Danish credit card?

I fly SK very rarely so my guess is as good as any.

I see two options on implementing this, either segment the market
a) by country of trip origin and then CPH will be danish even for swedish pax
b) by issuing country of credit card and then swedes (and others) may be exempted from fees

LH and AY does the first, so I'd say it's more likely for SK to do the same.


SK's reasoning in the articles linked above is a bit lame - as more sales are driven to the web (as part of 4excellence strategy) there really is no other viable option for payment. Therefore this is a hidden fee. Or will they add bank transfer and invoice as payment methods?!?

Trouble is - people are stupid. They rather pay 50€ in fees instead of paying 45€ extra for a ticket without fees. SK cannot overlook this irrational behaviour of travellers.

The exact details of the OPC:

Optional Payment Charge (OPC) for credit cards
The SAS Group Airlines, Scandinavian Airlines System, Blue1 and Wideroes Flyveselskap AS, have decided to introduce an Optional Payment Charge (OPC) for customers using a credit card as Form of Payment, valid for both SK/117-documents and for WF/701-documents.

Optional Payment Charge (OPC) will be effective in October 2012 and will apply regardless of sales channel and only when the SAS card acceptance agreement (Merchant agreement) is used.

Optional Payment Charge (OPC) will be introduced in Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Netherlands, Norway, Switzerland and United Kingdom. In Sweden, Optional Payment Charge (OPC) will only apply when the journey is commenced in Denmark, Norway or Finland in accordance with the Swedish national law.
Introducing OPC (Optional Payment Charge) by filing an OB fee

Only when the Form of Payment is Credit Card
All sales channels (SAS online, SAS Customer Contact Center, SAS ticket offices, travel agencies)
Applicable according to Point of Sales (in Sweden only when Point of Commencement in Denmark, Norway or Finland)
Same charge for all credit cards within respective Point of Sales
Applicable for tickets issued on SK/117- and WF/701-documents (also when interline or code share partners are involved)
To be collected per ticket
No refund except when the ticket is cancelled involuntary or within 24 hours
Exceptions to the OPC: infant and award tickets.
Travel Pass products will be exempted until spring 2013.
Contracted routes in Norway (anbudsrutter) are exempted when issued on WF/701 documents.

Countries where OPC will be collected (Point of Sales)

BE, CH, DK, DE, FI, GB, IE, NL, NO. (SE if the journey originates outside Sweden, i.e. CPH-NYC).
OPC Levels per Point of Sales
Country

System

Rate
Denmark (DK) Amadeus

1.8 % (% of the total ticket price including all taxes and fees)
Sabre / Travelport 40 DKK (domestic, intra Scan, Europe)
150 DKK (Intercont)
Norway (NO) Amadeus 2.2 % (% of the total ticket price including all taxes and fees)
Sabre / Travelport 40 NOK (domestic, intra Scan, Europe)
150 NOK (Intercont)
Sweden (SE)
(Only point of commencement DK, NO or FI) Amadeus 2.2 % (% of the total ticket price including all taxes and fees)
Sabre / Travelport

40 SEK (domestic, intra Scan, Europe)
150 SEK (Intercont)
Finland (FI) Amadeus 2.2 % (% of the total ticket price including all taxes and fees)
Sabre / Travelport 7 EUR (domestic, intra Scan, Europe)
15 EUR (Intercont)
Belgium (BE) All GDS:s

7 EUR (domestic, intra Scan, Europe)
15 EUR (Intercont)
Germany (DE) All GDS:s 7 EUR (domestic, intra Scan, Europe)
15 EUR (Intercont)
Ireland (IE) All GDS:s 7 EUR (domestic, intra Scan, Europe)
15 EUR (Intercont)
Netherlands (NL) All GDS:s 7 EUR (domestic, intra Scan, Europe)
15 EUR (Intercont)
Switzerland (CH) All GDS:s 9 CHF (domestic, intra Scan, Europe)
9 CHF (Intercont)
United Kingdom (GB) All GDS:s 4.50 GBP (domestic, intra Scan, Europe)
4.50 GBP (Intercont)

Interesting that in some GDS they can't implement the % charge and in some countries they just match the OPC of other airlines.

The exact details of the OPC:

...

Interesting that they combine point of sales and trip origin for sweden, resulting in fees charged for swedish pax using CPH.

Not sure this will go well with the "no hidden fee" marketing position.

Reminds me of the SK sold MMA-CPH train connection (placing SK flight numbers on train rides, to avoid a VAT issue I think) around year 2000. I guess SK will not be as creative this time:o

OPC is definitely giving me another reason not to fly with SAS.

In Germany TAs have become creative and everything gets a fp INV instead of fp CC, so the OPC doesn't apply and the TA can charge what they want. @:-);)

New development in this case:


DK version:
SAS skulle i oktober måned have indført et kreditkortgebyr i Norden samt seks europæiske lande. I første omgang har SAS droppet Norden, mens gebyret indføres den 16. oktober på andre europæiske markeder. Siden markedet fik kendskab til planerne, har især erhvervskunderne stillet spørgsmålstegn ved ordningen. Erhvervskunderne har netop igennem mange år valgt at benytte kreditkortselskabernes særlige rejsekonto-løsninger til betaling af flybilletter, fordi SAS og andre luftfartsselskaber finansierede omkostningen herved. Det skriver branchemagasinet Check-In mandag morgen.

UK version (Google Translate):
SAS was in October have introduced a credit card charge in the Nordic countries and six European countries. Initially, SAS has dropped Nordic countries, while the fee imposed on 16 October in other European markets. Since the market became aware of the plans, especially business customers questioned the scheme. Business customers have very many years chosen to use credit card companies' special travel account solutions for payment of flights because SAS and other airlines funded related costs. The sign industry magazine Check-In Monday morning.

/HerrO

New development in this case:


DK version:
SAS skulle i oktober måned have indført et kreditkortgebyr i Norden samt seks europæiske lande. I første omgang har SAS droppet Norden, mens gebyret indføres den 16. oktober på andre europæiske markeder. Siden markedet fik kendskab til planerne, har især erhvervskunderne stillet spørgsmålstegn ved ordningen. Erhvervskunderne har netop igennem mange år valgt at benytte kreditkortselskabernes særlige rejsekonto-løsninger til betaling af flybilletter, fordi SAS og andre luftfartsselskaber finansierede omkostningen herved. Det skriver branchemagasinet Check-In mandag morgen.

/HerrO

Interesting!

Good news for us who live in Nordic countries. According to check-in, the introduction of credit card fees in Nordic countries are indefinitely.

The whole article (in Danish)... (http://www.check-in.dk/newselement.cfm?nNewsArticleID=67689)

New development in this case:

DK version:
SAS skulle i oktober måned have indført et kreditkortgebyr i Norden samt seks europæiske lande. I første omgang har SAS droppet Norden.....................

/HerrO

SK announced the change quietly last week:

Optional Payment Charge - complete information
The SAS Group Airlines, Scandinavian Airlines System, Blue1 and Wideroes Flyveselskap AS, have decided to introduce an Optional Payment Charge (OPC) for customers using a credit card as Form of Payment, valid for both SK/117-documents and for WF/701-documents.

Optional Payment Charge (OPC) will be introduced in Belgium, Germany, Ireland, Netherlands, Switzerland and United Kingdom. It will be effective 16OCT12.

Optional Payment Charge (OPC) will apply regardless of sales channel and only when the SAS card acceptance agreement (Merchant agreement) is used.

Full content in link below.

For those of you who do not read other forums:

SAS makes an retreat, and is canceling their plan to go forward wit this stupid idea!!!!!!