Flying Blue (Air France, KLM, and Other Partners) - Athens frequencies melting...

According to airlineroute.net, AF and KL are among airlines planning substantial reduction to Athens service. AF is now planning to go down from 4 dto 2 daily CDG-ATH in winter 2012, and KLM down from 2 to 1 daily AMS-ATH (thus continuing their summer reduction).

MRS-ATH will be down to 2 weekly (from 4 weekly in W11) and NCE-ATH also 2 weekly (compared to 3 weekly in S12). Also note that the joint-venture JFK-ATH operated by DL will be cancelled (only ATL-ATH remains). All in all, I'd expect ATH to become a dearer destination than it has been in the past few months as LH, LX and many others are similarly cutting frequencies...

According to airlineroute.net, AF and KL are among airlines planning substantial reduction to Athens service. AF is now planning to go down from 4 daily to 2 weekly CDG-ATH in winter 2012

Err, you do mean 2 daily, don't you?

Maybe 2 weekly A380s would do.

Err, you do mean 2 daily, don't you?

It is indeed 2 daily.

Err, you do mean 2 daily, don't you?

Indeed sorry! Thanks for noticing ^ -- and now duly corrected

Poor Greece. The last thing they need right now are less tourists.

Poor Greece. The last thing they need right now are less tourists.

I presume most tourists will be flying down on the many charter flights (directly to the respective island).

Gajan

Didn't I read on FT a little while ago that KL are now code sharing with Olympic (OA?) on the AMS-ATH route? Also for onward flights to a number of Greek resorts. Could this be all part of the same conspiracy - let OA carry the 'losses' for AMS-ATH while KL can carry on selling stock for the route but deploy their aircraft on more profitable routes?

-- Henry

OA doesn't operate ATH-AMS anymore, they backed out this spring. The KL flight does however still carry the OA codeshare.

And indeed, very sad news. The KLM flight I did not expect to return (If it would, it would have been re-instated before the summer). But the reduced AF flights is very substantial.

I have to admit that in W11 the AF flights were often at a low(ish) load (Perhaps ~70%?), but from Spring onwards they were packed. The KLM flight is pretty much packed year round now. Which makes me believe that the reduction is more of a protection for a "What if" scenario in case things get much worse after the elections this autumn.

Transavia has surprised me though. They have a semi-daily service AMS-ATH but during winter season these flights are dead empty. Last winter I flew them for 119 euro roundtrip. And even at that price they had maybe 50% load (tops). Perhaps KLM figures another LLC will step in if Transavia would cancel during the winter season..

There's a french article (sorry) talking about reduced frequencies for ATH this winter : http://www.air-journal.fr/2012-07-27-les-compagnies-europeennes-boudent-athenes-en-hiver-553175.html

To sum up :
- 59/7 flights (59 flights per week) for ATH ;
- AF : 14/7 for CDG-ATH, 2/7 for MRS-ATH, 2/7 for NCE-ATH ;
- LO : 3/7 for WAW-ATH ;
- LH : 7/7 for FRA-ATH, 14/7 for MUC-ATH ;
- LX : 7/7 for GVA-ATH, 16/7 for ZRH-ATH ;
- SN : stops the route BRU-ATH ;
- TP : stops the route LIS-ATH ;
- 9U : 1/7 for KIV-ATH.

There's a french article (sorry) talking about reduced frequencies for ATH this winter : http://www.air-journal.fr/2012-07-27-les-compagnies-europeennes-boudent-athenes-en-hiver-553175.html

To sum up :
- 59/7 flights (59 flights per week) for ATH ;
- AF : 14/7 for CDG-ATH, 2/7 for MRS-ATH, 2/7 for NCE-ATH ;
- LO : 3/7 for WAW-ATH ;
- LH : 7/7 for FRA-ATH, 14/7 for MUC-ATH ;
- LX : 7/7 for GVA-ATH, 16/7 for ZRH-ATH ;
- SN : stops the route BRU-ATH ;
- TP : stops the route LIS-ATH ;
- 9U : 1/7 for KIV-ATH.

Just to clarify, 59 is the net reduction in weekly flight numbers to ATH from all the airlines that they mention (while figures per airline below are the actual rotations for winter 2012-13) (same info as the airlineroute). As they point out, a number of other airlines still fly the same number of flights as before (AZ, BA, etc) but that is still a heavy cut overall!

Also note that the joint-venture JFK-ATH operated by DL will be cancelled (only ATL-ATH remains).

Actually, ATL-ATH never even resumed this year (it was made seasonal last year). This summer, only JFK-ATH has been operating, and it will be suspended seasonally from 28 October 2012 till 30 March 2013. This will mark the first time (in a long time, or ever?) where there will be no nonstop flights between the U.S. and Greece by any airline. Olympic gave up operating JFK-ATH a few years ago already, and has been codesharing with DL.

Also noted that LX will be cancelling ZRH-SKG (Thessaloniki) service starting 28 October 2012 as well.

Just to clarify, 59 is the net reduction in weekly flight numbers to ATH from all the airlines that they mention (while figures per airline below are the actual rotations for winter 2012-13) (same info as the airlineroute). As they point out, a number of other airlines still fly the same number of flights as before (AZ, BA, etc) but that is still a heavy cut overall!

Indeed, the "-" before was to indicate reduction but I used the same character for my bullet points :P

As they point out, a number of other airlines still fly the same number of flights as before (AZ, BA, etc) but that is still a heavy cut overall!
While AZ does fly the same schedule as W11, they will reduce the number of flights compared to S12. The FCO-ATH flight arriving 13:20 (My favorite) is, unfortunately, seasonal.

Which leaves me pretty much only HV and AF to travel AMS-ATH (arriving before 16:00). HV has a horrible schedule for the return flight, and AF is squeezing every last cent on that route. (300+ euro roundtrip :o). Seems my travels are going to get expensive this winter..

I just don't understand why Aegean doesn't start the route; I know that there are real economic problems in Greece, but going from 4/5 to 2 frequencies a day an Ams-Ath is excessive...

AF is squeezing every last cent on that route. (300+ euro roundtrip :o).

Err, that does not seem too expensive. I remember flying for many years on that route on Tempo Challenge fares in excess of 1.600 EUR round trip ...

Err, that does not seem too expensive. I remember flying for many years on that route on Tempo Challenge fares in excess of 1.600 EUR round trip ...

I won't comment on the pricing of Tempo Challenge (suffice to say I have paid that price for J returns to EZE or BKK in recent years when spotting the right promotions) but if €300+ is the lowest return fare available (which I assume is what xandrios has found) then it is not cheap as return fares from €200 to ATH from most European gateways have not been unusual in the past few years.

Err, that does not seem too expensive. I remember flying for many years on that route on Tempo Challenge fares in excess of 1.600 EUR round trip ...

The difference is that I do not fly for business reasons. I usually book specific times (World-deal-weeks or the like), often months and months ahead of time. And I am flexible on days. So I should be able to grab the fares with the highest discounts.

Previous years that kept my average r/t fare at round 220 euro. In the summer a bit more expensive, in the winter often at 170 euro due to promos. Last year I have flown for probably less than 200 euro r/t on average, as AF had a great sale for 168 euro roundtrip out of AMS.

I have noticed that KLM has significantly reduced the inventory in G/R class, leaving N,V,T and so on which are usually closer to 300 euro roundtrip. Air France offers CDG-ATH for 145 euro (!) but from AMS the lowest available fare class is still 300+ euro.

While these fares are probably still low compared to business fares like you mentioned: I fly twice a month roundtrip, paid for by myself, and a 100 euro increase per ticket does make a difference in that case :)

Previous years that kept my average r/t fare at round 220 euro. In the summer a bit more expensive, in the winter often at 170 euro due to promos. Last year I have flown for probably less than 200 euro r/t on average, as AF had a great sale for 168 euro roundtrip out of AMS.

I have noticed that KLM has significantly reduced the inventory in G/R class, leaving N,V,T and so on which are usually closer to 300 euro roundtrip. Air France offers CDG-ATH for 145 euro (!) but from AMS the lowest available fare class is still 300+ euro.


Fair enough :). CDG-ATH for EUR 145 ... I would be glad to have that fare for my leisure trips from CDG to LHR!

Fair enough :). CDG-ATH for EUR 145 ... I would be glad to have that fare for my leisure trips from CDG to LHR!
I booked CDG-LHR return on BA and never flew it and still got 500 AA miles for it.
Hopefully AF will be possible as well.

ATH is also well served by AZ ( at least 4 x day ) so skyteam remain very active
Had someone on my flight doing ATL - FCO - ATH which is probably now the best non direct service allowing a very short 2 hour short haul service ( fco - ath )

ATH is also well served by AZ ( at least 4 x day ) so skyteam remain very active
Had someone on my flight doing ATL - FCO - ATH which is probably now the best non direct service allowing a very short 2 hour short haul service ( fco - ath )

Actually in the winter season (which is when the frequency reduction this thread is mentioning kick in) it is only two flights a day I believe.