Qantas Frequent Flyer - Business seats not lie flat?

I just returned from a trip in business on the A380. Part of my willingness to outright purchase business was my belief that the seats were lie flat. Maybe someone can help me with how lie-flat is defined, but my definition is that the seat is parallel to the floor through its entire length.

On both my outbound and return, my seat did not match my definition. There was an obvious tilt around were my knee was with that portion of the seat angling towards the floor. This created a very uncomfortable torque on my knee.

Granted, these seats are much better than the torture devices used by AA in international business, but I was a bit disappointed.

There are two versions of business seats. The newer ones are supposed to be flat, the older ones are on an angle. I suspect you were on one of the older ones. Without knowing where your flights we can't help you. I fly business only very occasionally and but I know that the planes between sydney and bangkok have the old business seats. Next time you might want to do some checking before you book.

There are two versions of business seats. The newer ones are supposed to be flat, the older ones are on an angle. I suspect you were on one of the older ones. Without knowing where your flights we can't help you. I fly business only very occasionally and but I know that the planes between sydney and bangkok have the old business seats. Next time you might want to do some checking before you book.

The OP says he was on the A380 so this was a fully flat seat. Sounds to me as if something was wrong with the seat which made the lower leg area not lift high enough.

The A380 seat is as flat as a pancake so to speak. So either operator error or something wrong with the seat.

So it's not just me that also believes they are not lie flat? I've tried pressing the "fully flat" button more than once and always end up with the "springboard" pointing down at the end. I know that my feet and legs are heavy, but I too think they should be fully flat. We will try again next week...

Put it into flat whilst standing, then dooner cover down to add some more padding.
Never had a problem getting it fully flat, but these things always tend to work better without weight already on top.

Maybe flat with no one on it, but I'm not convinced they are flat when I'm lying on it. Lie on your side and you'll soon discover they are not flat (your knees will tell you). The remedy, of course, is a cabin bag under the footrest.

I find it to be flat but tilted on an angle.
Less angled than mk1, but still angled.

I find it to be flat but tilted on an angle.
Less angled than mk1, but still angled.

That is what I find too, and I am hardly heavy so I don't think it would be my weight causing the droop. I've done quite a few sectors on A380 and they all had a shallow-angle 'droop'.

That is what I find too, and I am hardly heavy so I don't think it would be my weight causing the droop. I've done quite a few sectors on A380 and they all had a shallow-angle 'droop'.

Agreed. Only 6 or so sectors on the 388 in J and I always felt my feet fell away from the 180° angle when in the fully flat mode.

Agreed. Only 6 or so sectors on the 388 in J and I always felt my feet fell away from the 180° angle when in the fully flat mode.

OS and others advertise lie flat and while they are flat they are angled and uncomfortable as hell. It's lie flat 180 degree but tilted like a springboard.

Those things are hideous. That's one think keeping me on Air Canada.

I was on two different A380's. One out of LAX and the other on the return from Melbourne. I don't have the tail numbers, but I know they were different because the business section layout was not the same on each.

I did try getting the seat in lie-flat position while standing up. Still didn't work. I will admit, the seat was uncomfortable. I'm not a big person by any means, and the twist it was putting on my knee when on my side was painful. Granted, this is all whinning compared to having to be stuck in coach. I just was expecting more for my $$.

I think it is suppose to be flat but maybe mechanically or the support is not there and if there is any weight on the leg rest part will cause it to dip. Maybe They need to reenforce the leg rest part or use an ottoman like BA

Strange, I have done 30+ sectors and have always found it to be flat. Not a nice comfortable flat mind you like the AC, NZ, BA, DL, LA, & UA seats I have also tried but 180 flat non the less. Some seats showing age in the leg area perhaps?

The A380 seat is as flat as a pancake so to speak. So either operator error or something wrong with the seat.

I was on Emerits business class from London to Dubai A380 return journey.
For sure it wasn't a flat seat. I assume it depends on the operator

Travelled in the new CX J seat a few weeks ago, now that IS a true flat seat. Walks all over the QF seat. And the LA J seat is also completely flat. Back to the QF MK II in a few more days, wish I was flying home via CX....

Travelled in the new CX J seat a few weeks ago, now that IS a true flat seat. Walks all over the QF seat. And the LA J seat is also completely flat. Back to the QF MK II in a few more days, wish I was flying home via CX....

I really think it is the structure of the leg/foot rest.

It does appear most airlines now opt for an ottoman setup in both F and J Class for the flatbeds. (BA/CX/EK/AY/UA)

I think maybe QF can slightly modify the seat to fix this? It does feel a bit flimpsy at the tail end of the seat.

Travelled in the new CX J seat a few weeks ago, now that IS a true flat seat. Walks all over the QF seat. And the LA J seat is also completely flat. Back to the QF MK II in a few more days, wish I was flying home via CX....

Agree about the CX seat, I also like the NZ product which seems a little wider. Will use BA in September, taking advantage of the discount business to London. Never done long haul with BA before.

I believe in the 787 there are only a very limited number of approved seat designs so QF is likely to have to choose a more off the shelf design.

Anyone ever thought about the "angle of incidence" (namely, the nose of the aircraft being at a different angle than perfectly level) being an issue here?

Dave

Anyone ever thought about the "angle of incidence" (namely, the nose of the aircraft being at a different angle than perfectly level) being an issue here?

Dave

I did think about this but then why does it feel different on other airline's flatbed and how come it feels different in F class?:D

I heard from somebody within qantas that there is sometimes an issue with the new flatbeds if the passenger is heavy. Above certain weight the end of the seat flexes a bit downward. Suitcase is a solution here.

I heard from somebody within qantas that there is sometimes an issue with the new flatbeds if the passenger is heavy. Above certain weight the end of the seat flexes a bit downward. Suitcase is a solution here.

I am wondering if someone heavy might permanently droop it too?

I can categorically say that I do not fall into the 'heavy' category, so it really should not be my weight that droops it - if it did, the seat is designed to droop.

Anyone ever thought about the "angle of incidence" (namely, the nose of the aircraft being at a different angle than perfectly level) being an issue here?


Yes I have. However, it still doesn't make sense why it feels so droopy, as in my legs feel noticeably lower than my body, rather than my feet are lower relative to the floor. I suspect it's because it droops, because I have never had the angle of incidence-related perception issues with any 'proper flat' beds. Even my leg swelling would be indicative - on true flat bed they barely swell, but on not-true-flat-beds they do, including on QF A380.

at my heaviest I am 64kg and no drooping issues in the seat to speak of.

I was on two different A380's. One out of LAX and the other on the return from Melbourne. I don't have the tail numbers, but I know they were different because the business section layout was not the same on each. If you have the dates of the flights, you can look up the tail numbers on theqantassource.com

Anyone ever thought about the "angle of incidence" (namely, the nose of the aircraft being at a different angle than perfectly level) being an issue here?

Dave

I never had this problem on CX so I can rule that out.

I was on two different A380's. One out of LAX and the other on the return from Melbourne. I don't have the tail numbers, but I know they were different because the business section layout was not the same on each.

The seats are the same in both configs. There is currently one new aircraft with a few less J seats, and a few more Y seats.

Just stepped off QF12 (bussed out to the big bird at LAX - what a shemozzle), so can add my observations. Tried adjusting the seat by standing next to it - no difference, still drooped at the end. Also when laying down, no observable increase in the droop angle. On looking around the cabin when most beds were fully extended, they all seemed to have markedly different droop angles, with one almost flat. So methinks the beds are rapidly developing end droops. There were other signs - seat buttons not working, seat cover seams damaged, etc, of seat problems.

So it seems the construction of the Mk II skybed has not the robustness for long term operation.

I have seen people stand on the extended footrests to access the OHSBs - always seemed perilous to me as there is already a noticeable amount of 'give' or instability in the foot rests.

Og's 'cabin bag' solution may be the go moving forward.

So it seems the construction of the Mk II skybed has not the robustness for long term operation.

I have seen people stand on the extended footrests to access the OHSBs - always seemed perilous to me as there is already a noticeable amount of 'give' or instability in the foot rests.

Og's 'cabin bag' solution may be the go moving forward.
Brings to mind the old adage of "You can make something idiot proof but not user proof.":eek:;)

There is currently one new aircraft with a few less J seats, and a few more Y seats.And the second is currently in MNL getting the seat changes. :(

Maybe they should have added a ledge to the back of the seat in front to give the end more support...

Oh well, maybe Newson isn't so good at industrial design that is actually used, rather than just looking good

And the second is currently in MNL getting the seat changes. :(

Well done Qantas...keep up the stupid reconfig of the A380.. now we have J MkII seats which are not robust enough to remain fully flat and queue with 100 other pax for 4 lavs. Cant wait for the "premium experience" again of the A380 in J : - /

Flew the A380 MEL-LAX on Tuesday and found the seat had a definite droop at the base and was not fully flat. Also found it uncomfortable with hard ridges running across the seat, which I presume were supporting rods. It could do with more padding. Maybe I've been spoilt with the CX and NZ offerings.
I haven't flown QF to LAX for quite a while and I'm not sure whether I'll do so again. The very early morning arrival is hard. I typically overnight at LAX and there are not many hotels that do early morning check-in. (I only flew QF because of their discount business pricing which came in lower than NZ)

Flew the A380 MEL-LAX on Tuesday and found the seat had a definite droop at the base and was not fully flat. Also found it uncomfortable with hard ridges running across the seat, which I presume were supporting rods. It could do with more padding. Maybe I've been spoilt with the CX and NZ offerings.
I haven't flown QF to LAX for quite a while and I'm not sure whether I'll do so again. The very early morning arrival is hard. I typically overnight at LAX and there are not many hotels that do early morning check-in. (I only flew QF because of their discount business pricing which came in lower than NZ)

We have stayed at several LAX hotels and never found it difficult to check in early. The nature of their customers probably demands it.

I typically overnight at LAX and there are not many hotels that do early morning check-in. (I only flew QF because of their discount business pricing which came in lower than NZ)

I have checked into LAX Hilton at 7am on multiple occassions with no problems.

I have checked into LAX Hilton at 7am on multiple occassions with no problems.The LAX hotels pioneered "24 hour check-in" as a formal program; at at least 6 hotels you can check in any time and check-out is 24 hours later, so early morning arrival is no problem. It is an official benefit so no luck is involved, just astute travel arrangements.