MilesBuzz! - AA or UA to Ireland?

This is my first post. I have been lurking for a while. I need help with travel to Ireland using miles and I would also like to contribute when I can. I have learned valuable info from Flyertalk. Thank you!

I travel occasionally for pleasure and business but not enough to earn statis with any airline. I own a small business and use c/cs for $10,000-15,000/month.

My goal is to accumulate enough miles and points to fly my son and I to Ireland first class on AA or UA and to stay at the Weston in Dublin on SPG points. I stayed there a couple of years ago for 10 nights on points and the location is great! I have checked both airlines for flights and don't know which airline to work on miles. We want the flat-bed (no angled seats). We could fly into LHR on British Airways but I don't like not having a connecting flight to DUB. I haven't been able to find flights to Ireland with first class envoy seats.

I would appreciate your help!

This is my first post. I have been lurking for a while. I need help with travel to Ireland using miles and I would also like to contribute when I can. I have learned valuable info from Flyertalk. Thank you!

I travel occasionally for pleasure and business but not enough to earn statis with any airline. I own a small business and use c/cs for $10,000-15,000/month.

My goal is to accumulate enough miles and points to fly my son and I to Ireland first class on AA or UA and to stay at the Weston in Dublin on SPG points. I stayed there a couple of years ago for 10 nights on points and the location is great! I have checked both airlines for flights and don't know which airline to work on miles. We want the flat-bed (no angled seats). We could fly into LHR on British Airways but I don't like not having a connecting flight to DUB. I haven't been able to find flights to Ireland with first class envoy seats.

I would appreciate your help!
Please explain first more clearly what kind of beds you want. Flat and horizontal are two different things. Think of a wooden board. It stays flat whether you stand it up on edge, put it on the floor, or hold it at an angle. AA has flat beds at about a 160 degree angle (ie, not horiztonal, but flat) on all their planes that do their ORD-DUB flights. Is that acceptable to you or not? (If not, that would seem to take AA planes out of the picture. And Aer Lingus has even less-flat seats IIRC. So I'm not sure what airline, if any, has the seats you want on flights to DUB.)

US-Ireland is not a huge business market (especially since the downturn, which has undone the "Irish Tiger" economy there). And it's too heavily a leisure market. So no ailrine gives a priority to putting their best seats on flights to Ireland. That's why only an ailrine that has the kind of seats you want on every international plane, and happens to fly to Ireland, will have the kind of seat you want all the way to Ireland.

Meanwhile, have you checked the "fuel" surcharge fees on BA flights across the Atlantic? They are often so high (many many hundreds of dollars per ticket) that it costs almost as much to use miles on BA as just to purchase the ticket outright! You thus pay a whole lot to have the nicer BA planes across the sea compared to AA planes (which have low fees).

Btw, you haven't explained where you're located (ie, what airport you'd be starting out from).

The Westin is simple; that's an SPG hotel, so you've got to put enough spend on the SPG Amex to get those points. (And that means not relying on the SPG Amex for the airline miles, unless you can get so many points that you have enough SPG points both for the Westin and for transferring to the airline for the flights. And, btw, SPG does not work well for UA, since it loses half the value in that SPG-UA transfer compared to SPG-other airlines.)

My goal is to accumulate enough miles and points to fly my son and I to Ireland first class on AA or UA and to stay at the Weston in Dublin on SPG points....We could fly into LHR on British Airways but I don't like not having a connecting flight

Welcome to Flyertalk. AA offers international first class only on 777 aircraft, and to my knowledge they only use these (in Europe) on flights to LHR. The flight from ORD to DUB is operated with a 767 which offers business class, and the seats are not flat-beds.

We want the 180 degree horiztonal. I have spent so much time looking and did notice the AA 777 into LHR. I just though maybe I was missing something. Do you know if UA has a connecting flight from LHR to DUB? Maybe on a partner airline? if not, I'm thinking it might be better to fly back to LHR the day before our flight home. I don't like the stress of getting thru LHR to catch that flight without having them connected.

Assuming you're not doing this until next year, if you do an AA 777 to LHR, you will likely get one of the new 777-300ER jets which they're starting to take delivery on in just a few months. This would allow you to fly in either First or Business and have a fully lie-flat seat on brand new equipment.

You can see the new interiors here:

http://www.aa.com/i18n/utility/boeing-777-300ER.jsp?anchorLocation=DirectURL&title=fly777

Also, British Airways is either in the process of, or has already, acquired BMI which offers flights from LHR to DUB, so you should be able to connect on a single OneWorld itinerary.

I live in the middle of nowhere(Kansas). I would either fly out on AA which is our only airline or drive/Amtrak to MCI. AA flies to Dallas direct from here. I don't mind not having direct flights but want the 180 degree seats at least going.

Yes, I'm planning this trip for next year. I have been using my two SPG c/cs for spend to use either at the Weston or to transfer to AA but would start using United Explorer card if UA works better for flights. I have a long way to go! Right now I have the following:
SPG- 85,000 pts
UA- 130,000 miles
AA- 90,000 miles
Amtrak- 33,000 pts

We want the 180 degree horiztonal. I have spent so much time looking and did notice the AA 777 into LHR. I just though maybe I was missing something. Do you know if UA has a connecting flight from LHR to DUB? Maybe on a partner airline? if not, I'm thinking it might be better to fly back to LHR the day before our flight home. I don't like the stress of getting thru LHR to catch that flight without having them connected.

You still haven't told us what airport you'll be flying out of!

That's important, because so far AA has announced those planes with truly-horizontal seats only from some of the airports they fly to LHR from. (And those include JFK, which is so close to LHR, you barely have time to sleep, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend focusing on it if you don't live anywhere near, if sleep is your #1 consideration.)

By the way, are you aware, speaking of JFK-LHR, that AA flies daytime flights on that route, and UA flies daytime flights on EWR-LHR? In that case, who needs to sleep, and in that case, who cares whether the seats are horizontal?

But a daytime flight from New York may be impractical if you live on the west coast. So again, where are you based???

If it were me I'd do MCI-EWR-DUB in Business and avoid connecting via LHR on the return as you get to clear Customs and Immigration in Dublin which makes transiting EWR a breeze.
The seats on the 752 are lie flat and the service is good.

I edited my post above with my home base info. I would like the experience of first class (sorry, I don't know all the flying lingo) but also, I have a really bad back and have a problem sitting even for a couple of hrs. Domestically, I make it. But for a flight more than 2 or 3 hrs, it would be tough. Most of my flight experience has been in coach so maybe that's the problem!

Is MCI-EWR-DUB a UA flight? I will ck out the 752! Or.... It would be awesome to fly BMI

I would like the experience of first class (sorry, I don't know all the flying lingo) but also, I have a really bad back and have a problem sitting even for a couple of hrs. Domestically, I make it. But for a flight more than 2 or 3 hrs, it would be tough. Most of my flight experience has been in coach so maybe that's the problem!
Oh, yes, the difference between the typical coach seat and even the typical domestic first class seat in comfort is generally high. And the difference between the typical coach seat (domestic or international) and any seat (no matter how "non-horizontal") designed for international business/first class cabin use is astounding.

But given all you just added, here's another option you might want to look into (if you can afford the extra time it takes): Fly into LHR, then use a combination of trains and boats to get to DUB. (Someone must run boats between the UK main island and the Irish island, no?) On both trains and boats, you can stand up and walk around a lot easier than on planes.

US-Ireland is not a huge business market (especially since the downturn, which has undone the "Irish Tiger" economy there). And it's too heavily a leisure market. So no ailrine gives a priority to putting their best seats on flights to Ireland. That's why only an ailrine that has the kind of seats you want on every international plane, and happens to fly to Ireland, will have the kind of seat you want all the way to Ireland.
United serves Ireland with 757-200 aircraft configured with a fully flat seat. They have for a few years now (if you count the CO-operated version from prior to the merger). It is business class, not first class, but if what you want is the fully flat bed then that's the best option IMO.

Post # 6 @12:44

But given all you just added, here's another option you might want to look into (if you can afford the extra time it takes): Fly into LHR, then use a combination of trains and boats to get to DUB. (Someone must run boats between the UK main island and the Irish island, no?) On both trains and boats, you can stand up and walk around a lot easier than on planes.[/QUOTE]

Flying into LHR sometimes raises the prices I have found. Your suggestion about boats between the UK and Ireland is a good one, last time I took one it was from Holyhead (N. Wales) to Dunlerie (IRE) with a train available in both directions.

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AA has been flying its three-class 777 from DFW to MAD. If AA is still using this aircraft on the DFW-MAD route when the OP wants to fly, then XXX-DFW-MAD-DUB might be possible, with the last leg flown on Iberia's Air Nostrum subsidiary.

Post # 6 @12:44
And my post was at 12:46, but as you can guess by its length, I started typing it long before you posted post #6. :) Anyway, thanks!

It might be fun to take a boat from LHR-DUB but I am OK on a short flight. My concern is not having our flight or boat trip connected to our trip home if we fly out of LHR. I'm thinking I need to work on United miles and try the business class on the 757-200.

So much can change by next year!

I have nightmares about our flight home from Ireland a couple yrs ago. AA let us book flights round trip out of ORD to DUB and then a month before we were to leave, told us our flight from DUB home was canceled because it was seasonal! We ended up booking a separate flight at our expense from DUB-LHR and then had to race through this unknown airport to make a flight home! But the icing on the cake was when the night before we left Dublin, I noticed online that our flight was canceled! They had put us on a flight the day after and this would have made us miss our flight from ORD-MCI which was also on miles with UA. Not connected! And not smart planning. I called and got the last 2 seats on an earlier flight. There for, we had terrible coach seats in the middle of 5 people across!

It might be fun to take a boat from LHR-DUB but I am OK on a short flight. My concern is not having our flight or boat trip connected to our trip home if we fly out of LHR. I'm thinking I need to work on United miles and try the business class on the 757-200.
Given that I doubt you can fly direct MCI-LHR anyway, the fact that you've found MCI-EWR-DUB as a one-connection flight seems better logistically anway.

But yes, I do agree that you have to either have all your flights connected on the same itenerary, or "pad" the timing greatly (like at least a day between connections) otherwise.

Meanwhile, here's a strategy for United miles:

1. Apply for the Chase UA Explorer card under the best offer you can find.

2. Apply for the Chase Freedom card under the best offer you can find. Then use it on its rotatng categories (and presumably nothing else after you do whatever spend is needed for the signup bonus). You end up with tens of thousands of Ultimate Rewareds (UR) points, which at that moment can't help you a bit, but hold on to them. (This card has no annual fee, so it doesn't hurt to keep it "forever" and just always use it for its rotating categories.)

3. Later, apply for the Chase Sapphire Preferred card under the best offer you can find.

One you ahve the Chase Sapphire Preferred card (which also earns UR points), you can transfer all the UR points you've earned (including the ones you earned on Freedom) to UA!

However, this card has an annual fee (after the initial year), so you may not want to keep it. That's why you want to wait and get it last, because it "unlocks" the Freedom UR points you're able to earn before you get it, and it costs nothing the first year.

(The UA card also has an annual fee after the first year, but it comes with travel benefits like early boarding and free first checked bag and a couple lounge passes, while the Chase Sapphire Preferred doesn't. So if you only want to keep one card that has an annual fee, of these, the UA might make more sense.)

I really appreciate all your help! This is such a great site for travel info! I will do my best to "give back" when I can.

I have the business mileage plus explorer card. I also have the personal Chase Southwest air, Amtrak and Hyatt cards. That's 1 business and 3 personal Chase cards. I do have a high credit score and always pay balance in full each month but I've been skeptical of applying for more Chase cards.

I have wanted to apply for the Freedom and Sapphire cards or a personal Mileage Plus. Is that too many Chase cards? I got the Amtrak card just a month ago.(32,000 pts!) I have a 18,000 spend to accomplish for a family sleeper roundtrip to Chicago. two free nights at the Park Hyatt! Ok, now I'm bragging. I got the Cap One Venture and $1000 travel credit for proving $50,000 spend on my HHonors travel card!

I have the business mileage plus explorer card. I also have the personal Chase Southwest air, Amtrak and Hyatt cards. That's 1 business and 3 personal Chase cards. I do have a high credit score and always pay balance in full each month but I've been skeptical of applying for more Chase cards.

I have wanted to apply for the Freedom and Sapphire cards or a personal Mileage Plus. Is that too many Chase cards? I got the Amtrak card just a month ago
Funny you should ask that now, since this thread got started in the Credit Cards forum just yesterday:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1369343-how-many-chase-cards-do-you-have.html

(So far I've spotted 6 personal + 2 business from one person. That's about double what you have now.)

There's also this longer-running thread on various aspects of applying for Chase cards:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1191535-applying-chase-credit-cards-consolidated.html

And apparently there is a "two a day" trick with Chase somewhat like with Citi?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1368465-2-apps-same-day-chase.html

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AA has been flying its three-class 777 from DFW to MAD. If AA is still using this aircraft on the DFW-MAD route when the OP wants to fly, then XXX-DFW-MAD-DUB might be possible, with the last leg flown on Iberia's Air Nostrum subsidiary.

That seems like it'd really jack up the price for the itinerary.

I tried to force this via multi-city and it entertaingly came up with
SEA-DFW-MAD-JFK-ORD-DUB on the outbound. For 50 flight options, there was not a single one from MAD-DUB that did not involve a flight back to the US to JFK/ORD/DFW. Great site American :rolleyes:

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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

AA has been flying its three-class 777 from DFW to MAD. If AA is still using this aircraft on the DFW-MAD route when the OP wants to fly, then XXX-DFW-MAD-DUB might be possible, with the last leg flown on Iberia's Air Nostrum subsidiary.

That seems like it'd really jack up the price for the itinerary.

I tried to force this via multi-city and it entertaingly came up with
SEA-DFW-MAD-JFK-ORD-DUB on the outbound. For 50 flight options, there was not a single one from MAD-DUB that did not involve a flight back to the US to JFK/ORD/DFW. Great site American :rolleyes:

The aa.com website does not support award redemptions involving IB, so why would you conclude that XXX-DFW-MAD-DUB would cost more miles than some other routing? The only way to find out for sure would be to call AA and ask.

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The aa.com website does not support award redemptions involving IB, so why would you conclude that XXX-DFW-MAD-DUB would cost more miles than some other routing? The only way to find out for sure would be to call AA and ask.

Good point.I was looking at paid tickets and not reward redemptions.

I just realized that we could fly DFW-ORD, ORD-LHR, LHR-BHD on AA. ORD-LHR would be on a 777 with first class. Would there be high taxes flying into and out of LHR on BA booked thru AA? I wouldn't mind checking out Northern Ireland. I've heard it's beautiful. We could then take the train to Dublin.

Maybe book a one-way on AA to BHD and home from DUB on UA. Since I have miles on both airlines, It would be easier and faster to earn enough points to go next year. I think it would take 125,000 on AA and 100,000 on UA (business/first). I could then concentrate on hotel points. What do you guys (and Gals) think?

I just realized that we could fly DFW-ORD, ORD-LHR, LHR-BHD on AA. ORD-LHR would be on a 777 with first class. Would there be high taxes flying into and out of LHR on BA booked thru AA? I wouldn't mind checking out Northern Ireland. I've heard it's beautiful. We could then take the train to Dublin.

Maybe book a one-way on AA to BHD and home from DUB on UA. Since I have miles on both airlines, It would be easier and faster to earn enough points to go next year. I think it would take 125,000 on AA and 100,000 on UA (business/first). I could then concentrate on hotel points. What do you guys (and Gals) think?

Yes, TATL on BA booked with AA miles will have the BA fuel surcharge added. Now if ORD-LHR is on AA with just LHR-BHD on BA, it's not really a big impact - forget how much but you can do a dummy booking and see.

The new Titanic exhibit opened this year in Belfast and looks fairly interesting.

I just realized that we could fly DFW-ORD, ORD-LHR, LHR-BHD on AA. ORD-LHR would be on a 777 with first class. Would there be high taxes flying into and out of LHR on BA booked thru AA? I wouldn't mind checking out Northern Ireland. I've heard it's beautiful. We could then take the train to Dublin.

Maybe book a one-way on AA to BHD and home from DUB on UA. Since I have miles on both airlines, It would be easier and faster to earn enough points to go next year. I think it would take 125,000 on AA and 100,000 on UA (business/first). I could then concentrate on hotel points. What do you guys (and Gals) think?

The taxes will be rough flying through London (hundreds-thousands).

One way around this would be Aer Lingus, not as good as 3 class first but probably good enough for what you need -

http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/weboffersfromireland/businessclassfrom699/

Bookable with BA Avios pts, and have a direct flight from ORD-DUB

I have nightmares about our flight home from Ireland a couple yrs ago. AA let us book flights round trip out of ORD to DUB and then a month before we were to leave, told us our flight from DUB home was canceled because it was seasonal! We ended up booking a separate flight at our expense from DUB-LHR and then had to race through this unknown airport to make a flight home! But the icing on the cake was when the night before we left Dublin, I noticed online that our flight was canceled! They had put us on a flight the day after and this would have made us miss our flight from ORD-MCI which was also on miles with UA. Not connected! And not smart planning. I called and got the last 2 seats on an earlier flight. There for, we had terrible coach seats in the middle of 5 people across!
What flight was canceled the night before your return? the one you book separately DUB-LHR, or LHR-ORD? This is something I don't understand, if you already booked tickets ORD-DUB-ORD, AA had to accommodate you back to ORD regardless of DUB-ORD being canceled. You should get reimbursed for the DUB-LHR flight. That is part of the contract of carriage, you should not have to pay for the DUB-LHR part. AA partner with BA and they do that route, also EI too.

Ok, here is my take, skip all this connecting airport, separate tickets, complications, etc. and concentrate that the most important flight will be the transatlantic part, USA-DUB, both AA and UA offer service to DUB with "similar" type of seats that you are looking for. Once you have an idea on date then determine if AA works for you, as their flight is a seasonal route, I think its April to October, but not sure. Once you have the dates, then start accumulating the miles and book a complete ticket, meaning from your home airport MCI-ORD-DUB-ORD-MCI all under one itinerary. Do not do a separate ticket from the HUB airport to your home via train or plane, reason is that if there are any changes or delays on the international part of the ticket, you are not going to be protected on the other ticket, like you mentioned before.

I have flown the ORD-DUB route with AA a couple of times a year, and I have posted on the AA forum how the immigration process work. Overall I'm very satisfied with the service and will continue to do so.

Another option is to book a flight with United miles which allows free flight changes as long as the departure and arrival cities remain the same. I would consider about 2-3 weeks out from departure, trying to switch to MCI-CLT-MUC-DUB. Lufthansa has non-stop daily flights from Charlotte to Munich (A330) and I've heard their first class is superior. I've only flown economy on that route multiple times and even their economy is great. You could also probably pick up ORD-FRA-DUB all via Lufthansa. Lufthansa usually only offers their 1st class cabin 2-3 weeks in advance so you would need another first class *A flight booked in order to change to this if it opens. Flying through Germany probably adds $40 in taxes per ticket.

Another option is to book a flight with United miles which allows free flight changes as long as the departure and arrival cities remain the same. I would consider about 2-3 weeks out from departure, trying to switch to MCI-CLT-MUC-DUB. Lufthansa has non-stop daily flights from Charlotte to Munich (A330) and I've heard their first class is superior. I've only flown economy on that route multiple times and even their economy is great. You could also probably pick up ORD-FRA-DUB all via Lufthansa. Lufthansa usually only offers their 1st class cabin 2-3 weeks in advance so you would need another first class *A flight booked in order to change to this if it opens. Flying through Germany probably adds $40 in taxes per ticket.

Switching from a business class award to a first class award would not be free. Also, the O/D pair rule is based on requesting the change 21+ days in advance of the new travel date. So it it opens up inside that you're paying a change fee there, too.

The first flight that was canceled was DUB-ORD on AA. The reason that we had 2 separate itinerarys is because we wanted to fly from our home airport which was United at the time. My friend only had enough miles to fly from GCK-ORD on United. She also only had enough miles to fly ORD-DUB on AA on miles. That made us have 2 unconnected flights. If AA allowed us to book DUB-ORD, I'm sure there were other people that they messed up. That means AA had to make many calls to get these people home some other way. This return flight was scheduled for Nov 7th, 2010.

I'm not afraid to ask for what I know should be expected but I was new to flying with miles and didn't know that we shouldn't have had to pay our own way to LHR.

Our 2nd flight that was canceled was a flight from LHR-ORD. We did get on an earlier flight that day but it made it almost impossible to get from DUB on Aer Lingus. We were lucky and had an on time flight to LHR and actually called AA in LHR for assistance in LHR with a wheel chair! My friend was having knee problems and riding in a wheel chair with someone who knew the airport was needed. I pushed the luggage cart!

This was a lesson not to ever book flights with miles on separate airlines. We even stayed in Chicago going and returning just to make this work. But I was thinking if we flew over on AA and home on UA, we wouldn't have connection problems. Unless we had to cancel the entire trip and have 2 separate fees to add our miles back.

The first flight that was canceled was DUB-ORD on AA.
Yes, a few years ago AA went through a bunch of self-searching to try to figure out if and how and when to serve Ireland exactly. They used to fly BOS-SNN on a 757 (a regular domestic 757, sold as all coach but elites could reserve seats in the normally-F section!), while flying ORD-DUB on a 763. Then they changed it to a single ORD-DUB-SNN-ORD round-robin flight on a 763. Then they dumped SNN once Open Skies happened (and the requirement that all airlines that fly to Ireland fly at least 25% of their flights to SNN went poof), and then they couldn't make up their mind as to just how seasonal they wented ORD-DUB to be. (I don't know if that's stabilized or not.)

So it all depends when you want to fly to Ireland. If you want to fly "in season" then it's not as much of an issue. If you want to fly in "far fringe shoulder season" then it's more of an issue, because that's where the schedule is most iffy far out.

(So far I've flown to Ireland twice, but only to SNN so far. And the last time, I was on the second-to-last flight back from SNN that AA ever did! The was the ORD-DUB-SNN roundrobin...)

Yes, a few years ago AA went through a bunch of self-searching to try to figure out if and how and when to serve Ireland exactly. They used to fly BOS-SNN on a 757 (a regular domestic 757, sold as all coach but elites could reserve seats in the normally-F section!), while flying ORD-DUB on a 763. Then they changed it to a single ORD-DUB-SNN-ORD round-robin flight on a 763. Then they dumped SNN once Open Skies happened (and the requirement that all airlines that fly to Ireland fly at least 25% of their flights to SNN went poof), and then they couldn't make up their mind as to just how seasonal they wented ORD-DUB to be. (I don't know if that's stabilized or not.)

So it all depends when you want to fly to Ireland. If you want to fly "in season" then it's not as much of an issue. If you want to fly in "far fringe shoulder season" then it's more of an issue, because that's where the schedule is most iffy far out.

I've thought about flying into SNN but don't want to rent a car and not sure about transportation from there. We did stay 3 nights at the Sheraton in Athlone. Rail was handy to Galway and other routes just to check out the country. The Sheraton in Athlone had cash and points. Quiet little town but I would stay there again. The castle was closed for restoration when we were there but the pubs were open!

We didn't realize that we were flying in " far fringe shoulder season". We knew it was off season because we flew using 40,000 pts!
(So far I've flown to Ireland twice, but only to SNN so far. And the last time, I was on the second-to-last flight back from SNN that AA ever did! The was the ORD-DUB-SNN roundrobin...)

I'm not sure what I did wrong with that last post. Trying to learn how to respond to a particular post.

are these 180 degree flat beds really at 180 degrees? the plane flys with about a 6 degree angle of attack. if you fly feet fwd, your head will be down more than a little bit. i have only flown LH and UA "flat beds" in biz class. the bed is a bit over 6' long, and i find the entire experience to be a delight.the beds in UA are both head first and feet first. next time i use one, i will look to see if i can see an angle between the two of them. i have flown feet first on a couple 3 flights recently. the only time i noticed it was out the window on taxi, and on blast off. i experienced no discomfort.

there is not a big saving between biz and in first with "saver" fares on ua. if you want a saver fare on DL, look to 2020. their offerings are really ugly short.

look at possible routes on orbitz it is fast.

i have a lot of miles on starwood amex. they are great because they do not get orphaned and they transfer to most airlines. i decided starwood hotels were not worth the miles, and stopped stayijng at starwoods on points. i have all these miles on DL, and dl does not really fly out of dc any more. i had a ton of miles on swiss. they just dissapeared, with my miles. i had a lot of miles on amtrak, but they went bad if i did not ride yearly. when i sold my company, i no longer traveled dc-ny. noplace to burn or transfer amtrak miles.

I'm not sure what I did wrong with that last post. Trying to learn how to respond to a particular post.
You have to reply after the "/quote" that's in brackets. The "/quote" in brackets tell the system to end the quote, so anything you type before that is included as part of the quote!

You can't do intermixed replies (without knowing exactly what you're doing). Only people who've been around FT for a long time and have figured out the innards can do intermixed replies (and even then it's a bit tedious).


I've thought about flying into SNN but don't want to rent a car and not sure about transportation from there. We did stay 3 nights at the Sheraton in Athlone. Rail was handy to Galway and other routes just to check out the country. The Sheraton in Athlone had cash and points. Quiet little town but I would stay there again. The castle was closed for restoration when we were there but the pubs were open!

Well, take a look at the rail map for Ireland:

http://www.irishrail.ie/map-ireland.jsp

You can't get to many of the sights in western Ireland with public transport. You either have to rent a car or hook up with tours (big or small; the small tours btw can get you to places the big bug tours can't, because many of thoe roads in western Ireland are too narrow for big buses).

If all you want is pubs, you can find that anywhere in Ireland. If all you want is general countyside, yes, you can get that on rail routes. If you want a sizeable city, you can probably do that on rail routes. But if you want to tour the ring of Kerry, or the cliffs of Moher (or an ancient burial site in that area), no trains go there.

However, there is a train near SNN, though it doesn't go right to the airport. (The airport is between Ennis and Limerick, and there are train stops both places. But you have to catch a bus to one of those cities AFAIK.)

So DUB may be more practical if you're going to use only rail, even if you're going to go to the west.

i have a lot of miles on starwood amex. they are great because they do not get orphaned and they transfer to most airlines. i decided starwood hotels were not worth the miles, and stopped stayijng at starwoods on points. i have all these miles on DL, and dl does not really fly out of dc any more. i had a ton of miles on swiss. they just dissapeared, with my miles. i had a lot of miles on amtrak, but they went bad if i did not ride yearly. when i sold my company, i no longer traveled dc-ny. noplace to burn or transfer amtrak miles.
Amtrak miles expire unless you use Amtrak or you hold the (no annual fee) Amtrak MC from Chase. I do the latter, since I rarely ride Amtrak. Not sure what I'll use it for, but it probably won't be from my home town, but when I fly to somewhere where it then makes sense to use rail onwards. (But who knows what year that will be! Which is why I just let my Amtrak points sit and slowly build with occasional light use of that card.)

Starwood polints transfer to a lot of airlines, but to UA they transfer at a horrid rate (1/2 the rate of all other ailrines), so it's funny you should mention this card after talking about how much you like the UA business class flat seats!

Starwood redemptions are often the best value with cash+points, but of course that only works at some hotels. I find in some locaitons I can't use them at all, but in some other locations (especially away from big cities) they are much better value than other points I have. Especially useful when they have a resort somewhere I want to go where every other hotel is independent (can't use points) and all the hotels are expensive on cash. (Iguazu Falls, Argentina, is example #1 there.)

You can't get to many of the sights in western Ireland with public transport. You either have to rent a car or hook up with tours (big or small; the small tours btw can get you to places the big bug tours can't, because many of thoe roads in western Ireland are too narrow for big buses).

If all you want is pubs, you can find that anywhere in Ireland. If all you want is general countyside, yes, you can get that on rail routes. If you want a sizeable city, you can probably do that on rail routes. But if you want to tour the ring of Kerry, or the cliffs of Moher (or an ancient burial site in that area), no trains go there.

However, there is a train near SNN, though it doesn't go right to the airport. (The airport is between Ennis and Limerick, and there are train stops both places. But you have to catch a bus to one of those cities AFAIK.)

So DUB may be more practical if you're going to use only rail, even if you're going to go to the west.

My experience mirrors yours. To provide a little corroboration for the OP, two years ago, I took a trip to Ireland with my youngest sister. She hadn't flown in years and really only needed me for hand holding on the way over. Once we spent a couple of days in Dublin, we went our separate ways for a week, meeting in Galway, and then splitting again before returning to Dublin to fly out.

She took the trains. I rented a car. The train service from Dublin is relatively good (my sister went to Galway by train and then on a trip earlier this year, to Killarney), but I don't think there's as much service between smaller cities as there is on routes running on a direct line between Dublin and the ultimate destination. My trip took me into the Ring of Kerry as well as into northwest Ireland. I could not have used the train for transportation deep into those areas.

Driving in Ireland is an experience since the economic woes have apparently delayed the further improvement of the Irish motorway system. The roads within a 30-mile radius of Dublin are generally good with some interstate-quality roads (but with American-style rush hour traffic jams), but once you're in the hinterlands, even the roads designated as "national" roads (the equivalent of numbered US highways here) can be twisty, two-lane roads where the posted speed limit is probably the true limit with the design of the road frequently requiring a speed 20 miles per hour lower. I learned that it was probably best to estimate times between two points outside of Dublin by assuming no more than a 35 mph average.

By the way, the narrow roads, the tight parking in cities and towns, and the even higher gas prices in Europe make taking the smallest rental car possible a good strategy. An SUV generally works only if you've got four people and a lot of luggage.

I don't want to drive in Ireland but maybe my son will. We haven't discussed it. I'm not sure if I would be more nervous if I drove or if he drove! Taking short tours and trains is so much more relaxing but I know limiting.

We stayed 3 nights in Athlone and then took the train to Dublin and stayed 10 nights. After staying 4 nights in Dublin we left almost everything in our room and took the train to Cork and bus to Kinsale. The next day bus to Cork and train to Kilarney. There we did a Ring of Kerry tour. Then back to Dublin for 4 more nights. We were staying at the Weston on points and 5th night free so it was just easier to not check out of our room while we were gone for those 2 days.

We took several day tours around and from Dublin.

My son has never been to Ireland but it would be nice to see some new areas. If anyone has any ideas on how to see Ireland without renting a car.....

For now, I will work on building up miles and points. I'm itching to apply for a couple Chase cards for UR points and the new AA card that has priority boarding and free checked bags. Just 5 months ago I got the personal citi Amx card so I can't apply for another personal card for another year? I also have the citibusiness card and plan on canceling it. I hate to lose the CL but I don't want to pay the yearly fee which is due in Nov. Maybe citi has another business card that I could apply for before I cancel and then move the CL over to the new card. I havent seen any great offers lately. I've had this citi business card for 2 or 3 years. I also think that I should apply for Chase cards first but their offers aren't the best right now either.

Thank you sdsearch for your tech help. I'll try it again sometime.

By the way, the narrow roads, the tight parking in cities and towns, and the even higher gas prices in Europe make taking the smallest rental car possible a good strategy. An SUV generally works only if you've got four people and a lot of luggage.
And even then get the narrowest SUV possible!

Also, I would suggest considering full "collision" coverage in rural Ireland, even if you let your credit card protect you elsewhere. (Besides, some credit card rental protections have specficially excluded Ireland!) It's not that a true "collision" is likley, it's just that with the narrow roads often bordered by stone walls (instead of shoulders), and the tight parking, etc, you're more likely to get scrapes/scratches/dents on a car there perhaps than most other places overseas.

Rental Tip:

Over in the Avis forum, someone discovered that they could get an Avis rental with insurance included on the avis.ie (Avis Ireland) site for less money than the exact same rental with no insurance included on avis.com (the Avis US site)! That didn't include the "super LDW" I think but even adding that in (a few euros a day I think it was) still made it come uut to less than if booked with no insurance indluded on the US site (and no insurance added upon pick-up).