Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate - Wallet Grab in Austin: "It's Procedure."

I was the only passenger at the checkpoint this week at about 430am.

The young ID-checker at the podium is friendly enough and we chat about how I've never seen this checkpoint so quiet. Then, out of nowhere, we have to play the name game. He eyes my license and tells me to recite my name. I am so caught off guard by this that I actually do it.

I move on to the checkpoint. MMW scanner. Been up working all night, too tired to opt out. I hold my wallet in my hand, stand in the blender with arms up, and exit.

A burly white male TSO announces: "I have to inspect your wallet."

Me: "Why?"

TSO #1: "I have to inspect your wallet.'

Me: "I need to know why."

TSO #2, aggressive African-American female: "Procedure."

Me, mildly: "That's not really an answer."

TSO #1: "You don't think that's an answer, huh? You brought your wallet through the scanner, I have to look inside it."

Me: "What will you be looking for?"

TSO #2, voice rising: "It's procedure!"

I hand my wallet over. TSO #1 opens and shuts it in about one second, barely glancing inside, and hands it back.

TSO #1: "Now I'm going to pat down your leg."

In a twinkling, before I have time to argue, he drops to one knee, cups my left leg with both hands, and runs them up past my knee toward my crotch -- bumping it hard. He gets up just as quickly.

TSO #1 "There. That's procedure, too."

And they both walk away.

I'm sure America is safer because of stuff like this. I just can't figure out how, exactly.

TSO #1: "Now I'm going to pat down your leg."

In a twinkling, before I have time to argue, he drops to one knee, cups my left leg with both hands, and runs them up past my knee toward my crotch -- bumping it hard. He gets up just as quickly.

TSO #1 "There. That's procedure, too."

It's "procedure" to only grope one leg and throw in a free Jimmy Tap?

Did the scanner detect an anomaly on your leg? Even if it did, I can't imagine the entire leg had anomalies on it requiring that much attention. I'm sure you were just guilty of questioning their authority. I know I have been for daring to opt out of the scanner.

It may procedure.

Everything that passes into the sterile area must be screened. Since the scanners do not screen the wallet, to be screened it must either be hand inspected or run through the x-ray. When you have it in your pocket through the WTMD, it gets screened.

IMO, this actually makes sense.

You do not know how much pain it caused for me to type a defense of a TSA procedure. Ugh. I feel like I need a shower.

It may procedure.

Everything that passes into the sterile area must be screened. Since the scanners do not screen the wallet, to be screened it must either be hand inspected or run through the x-ray. When you have it in your pocket through the WTMD, it gets screened.

IMO, this actually makes sense.

You do not know how much pain it caused for me to type a defense of a TSA procedure. Ugh. I feel like I need a shower.

Unfortunately, the attitude and the gratuitous karate chop are also 'procedure'.

They must be, otherwise they wouldn't happen so frequently, right in front of the cameras and the eagle eyes of the roving LTSOs and STSO's.

Is wearing a cup forbidden? I got two "love taps" on my last two times through the TSA because I opted out. I'd almost like to antagonize them to see if they'd knock their hands on it instead of my junk.
When they ask if I have any sensitive or tender areas I mention that my genitals are and not to press hard. Only once did an TSO react that I was a hassle. The others knew why I said it.

AUS is one of the absolute worst airports in the country in terms of TSA personnel--the stories are all over FT of AUS screeners doing basically what they did to you. Arbitrary rule-changing, retaliatory screening, and intentional karate chops. A colleague/close friend of mine had to fly out of AUS once after a meeting. He received blatant retaliatory screening for opting out, and when he asked for a supervisor after the patdown, a two-striper came over and told him before my colleague could say a word that he didn't have to fly today if he didn't want to, and the exit was right over there if he intended to "cause a scene".

That colleague of mine still visits Austin twice a month, but he flies into San Antonio and drives the rest of the way now. Might want to consider doing the same.

Everything that passes into the sterile area must be screened. Since the scanners do not screen the wallet, to be screened it must either be hand inspected or run through the x-ray. When you have it in your pocket through the WTMD, it gets screened.

IMO, this actually makes sense.

And it's exactly why some of us (when I was still flying, anyway) would put EVERYTHING into the carry-on bag and lock it before putting it on the belt to be X-rayed.

Is wearing a cup forbidden? I got two "love taps" on my last two times through the TSA because I opted out. I'd almost like to antagonize them to see if they'd knock their hands on it instead of my junk.

It's not forbidden, but I'll pass along a word of warning: I had to wear a cup once after a recent injury, and I opted out of the MMW as a result, even telling them that I was wearing a medical device under the instruction of my doctor. The TSO doing the pat-down told me that he couldn't clear me as long as that "blockage" was preventing him from "doing a thorough screening", regardless of whether it was a medical device or not. Three-striper gave me the same answer and said that I'd have to go to the restroom and remove it, then come back through the checkpoint.

It's not forbidden, but I'll pass along a word of warning: I had to wear a cup once after a recent injury, and I opted out of the MMW as a result, even telling them that I was wearing a medical device under the instruction of my doctor. The TSO doing the pat-down told me that he couldn't clear me as long as that "blockage" was preventing him from "doing a thorough screening", regardless of whether it was a medical device or not. Three-striper gave me the same answer and said that I'd have to go to the restroom and remove it, then come back through the checkpoint.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/specialneeds/editorial_1370.shtm

Security Officers will not ask nor require you to remove your prosthetic device, cast, or support brace.

Another lie from the TSA.

AUS is one of the absolute worst airports in the country in terms of TSA personnel....
That colleague of mine still visits Austin twice a month, but he flies into San Antonio and drives the rest of the way now. Might want to consider doing the same.Wow, driving both ways to avoid the TSA ?
Myself, I don't notice AUS being better/worse than others.

Last week they did ask me to pronounce my name.
I don't find it something worth debating.
And I do put my wallet in my roll-aboard for screening.

AUS screeners did refuse to honor my Global Entry card.
I talked with the supervisor, who politely agreed GE was valid ID,
and he would go over it with screeners.
Returning from PDX, supposedly one of the "better" TSA ops,
the same thing happened with GE card.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/specialneeds/editorial_1370.shtm

Another lie from the TSA.

I didn't say it was legit, just that a three-striper told me that if I wanted to fly, I would have to go back through without the cup. Being that I was short on time, I didn't feel like arguing the point and demanding LEOs and the FSD, so I went and removed the cup then carried it around and placed it, by itself, in a bin for X-ray. I also told the screener (same guy) after opting out again that my groin was extremely sensitive after a recent injury (as he knew), and that unless he wanted me doubled over on the floor screaming, he would stay well clear of the area. He tested me by rubbing way up the leg, so I tested right back by flinching strongly and yelping loudly enough to draw some attention. The rest of the screening went very smoothly. :D

Chalk that up to another nonsense TSA procedure.

Recently, I saw a TSO patting the top of peoples' heads after going through the nudie scanner. These men basically had buzz cuts (not to mention the TSO did not change gloves each time, thus "contaminating" every run he gave a head pat to). Made no sense, per usual. You could see their scalps. There was no way they could hide anything unless they had fake heads.

It may procedure.

Everything that passes into the sterile area must be screened. Since the scanners do not screen the wallet, to be screened it must either be hand inspected or run through the x-ray. When you have it in your pocket through the WTMD, it gets screened.

IMO, this actually makes sense.

You do not know how much pain it caused for me to type a defense of a TSA procedure. Ugh. I feel like I need a shower.

Actually, most TSA procedure makes sense other than being security theater.

The problem is that there is an awful lot of abuse that's not actually part of procedure and nothing happens to the people who play two-bit bully.

I always zip mine into my bag.

Mike

I always zip mine into my bag.

Same here. No loose anything except for shoes, laptop, and Kippie Bag through the x-ray, with only ID and BP on my person. TSA are PITAs enough to deal with. No need to add another potential item of contention (not to blame the OP, of course).

Same here. No loose anything except for shoes, laptop, and Kippie Bag through the x-ray, with only ID and BP on my person..
+1

Same here. No loose anything except for shoes, laptop, and Kippie Bag through the x-ray, with only ID and BP on my person. TSA are PITAs enough to deal with. No need to add another potential item of contention (not to blame the OP, of course).

I usually put the ID and BP in my carry-on as well. I know there are airports/checkpoints out there that require you to keep it out, but I've yet to encounter one.

I was the only passenger at the checkpoint this week at about 430am.

The young ID-checker at the podium is friendly enough and we chat about how I've never seen this checkpoint so quiet. Then, out of nowhere, we have to play the name game. He eyes my license and tells me to recite my name. I am so caught off guard by this that I actually do it.

I move on to the checkpoint. MMW scanner. Been up working all night, too tired to opt out. I hold my wallet in my hand, stand in the blender with arms up, and exit.

A burly white male TSO announces: "I have to inspect your wallet."

Me: "Why?"

TSO #1: "I have to inspect your wallet.'

Me: "I need to know why."

TSO #2, aggressive African-American female: "Procedure."

Me, mildly: "That's not really an answer."

TSO #1: "You don't think that's an answer, huh? You brought your wallet through the scanner, I have to look inside it."

Me: "What will you be looking for?"

TSO #2, voice rising: "It's procedure!"

I hand my wallet over. TSO #1 opens and shuts it in about one second, barely glancing inside, and hands it back.



This is why my wallet is safely located in a zippered pocket in my briefcase before I approach the TDC, and stays there until I'm well away from the screening area.

AUS is one of the absolute worst airports in the country in terms of TSA personnel

i fly out of AUS about weekly and I think it's better than most.

YMMV. I am a professional white guy, after all.

Wow, driving both ways to avoid the TSA ?
Myself, I don't notice AUS being better/worse than others.With AUS on the south side of the city and SAT on the north side, I would guess it only makes an hour difference. Not so different from DFW-DAL or IAH-HOU, depending on traffic, especially if you are in town for several days.

If I were a guy, a couple of 'man-handling' incidents might convince me the drive wasn't so bad.

With AUS on the south side of the city and SAT on the north side, I would guess it only makes an hour difference. Not so different from DFW-DAL or IAH-HOU, depending on traffic, especially if you are in town for several days.

If I were a guy, a couple of 'man-handling' incidents might convince me the drive wasn't so bad.

It's almost 80 miles and IH-35 can be parking lot sometimes but your point is still well taken.
I know people that drive up to nearly 500 miles instead of flying now just to avoid repeats of unpleasant TSA encounters. In fact, I know a business man who just did the Houston-OKC in about 7 hours to avoid it. Happens everyday.

I've read on here certain people use WTMD airports only and do drive some distances to get to those.

It's almost 80 miles and IH-35 can be parking lot sometimes but your point is still well taken.
I know people that drive up to nearly 500 miles instead of flying now just to avoid repeats of unpleasant TSA encounters. In fact, I know a business man who just did the Houston-OKC in about 7 hours to avoid it. Happens everyday.

I've read on here certain people use WTMD airports only and do drive some distances to get to those.
I drive to AUS or HOU, but fly to CRP, so I haven't driven AUS-SAT in several years. But, yeah, I remember it taking more than an hour. Maybe Perry will get his toll-road built soon. :D

CRP kills me because it's X-ray scanning as the primary screening technique, which means an opt-out every time, and they've started to play the name game. But driving 7-8 hours for a weekend with the family almost never makes sense. :( So I opt out and plead the fifth (as giving the wrong name could incriminate me) and we muddle through. The agents have started to remember me, so it's less hassle every time.

i fly out of AUS about weekly and I think it's better than most.

YMMV. I am a professional white guy, after all.

I'm just an amateur white guy, but I'm thinking about going pro soon. Are the union dues really high?:D

I'm just an amateur white guy, but I'm thinking about going pro soon. Are the union dues really high?:D

No dues, but the qualification for the Q-Card is a royal PITA.

I drive to AUS or HOU, but fly to CRP, so I haven't driven AUS-SAT in several years. But, yeah, I remember it taking more than an hour. Maybe Perry will get his toll-road built soon. :D

CRP kills me because it's X-ray scanning as the primary screening technique, which means an opt-out every time, and they've started to play the name game. But driving 7-8 hours for a weekend with the family almost never makes sense. :( So I opt out and plead the fifth (as giving the wrong name could incriminate me) and we muddle through. The agents have started to remember me, so it's less hassle every time.

Just tell them that you can't raise your arms over your head. It could be from shoulder problems or just a refusal to take the criminals "I surrender" pose but I don't think TSA will ask which of those cases fit you.

No dues, but the qualification for the Q-Card is a royal PITA.

This one is pretty easy to get.:D

http://theqcard.com/

I've read on here certain people use WTMD airports only and do drive some distances to get to those.

Yep!

Back to the OP:

It's too bad the cameras weren't working that day, especially since TSA has recently shown how quick and easy it is for them to review footage if they actually want to.

If the cameras had been working, it would have been interesting to see how the TSOs would explain the footage to a manager/FSD.

Was the single leg 'grope' to resolve an anomaly? What sort of anomaly runs all the way up the leg to the 'crotch'?

Was the single leg 'grope' a half-arsed, incomplete, random 'patdown'? Then the screener should be punished for failing to complete the patdown, thus putting the public at risk. Who knows what the pax might have had concealed on the rest of his body?

Or does 'random patdown' now mean 'random body part patdown'?

This is why my wallet is safely located in a zippered pocket in my briefcase before I approach the TDC, and stays there until I'm well away from the screening area.

The only thing that would bother me here is what if some clerk or psgr decides to swipe that briefcase.

Was the single leg 'grope' to resolve an anomaly? What sort of anomaly runs all the way up the leg to the 'crotch'?

Was the single leg 'grope' a half-arsed, incomplete, random 'patdown'? Then the screener should be punished for failing to complete the patdown, thus putting the public at risk. Who knows what the pax might have had concealed on the rest of his body?

It was a one-leg-only, rough-and-rapid patdown, executed before I had time to argue, right in place. It took only seconds. It appeared to me to be a consequence of my questioning the wallet grab. The TSO neither really examined my wallet nor patted me down in the normal fashion. In my biased view it was all about subjugation to procedure, not effective security.

I mentioned on another thread about the screener that just reached out and started patting my mom's head without asking or warning her after she exited the scanner. That was in Austin.

It was a one-leg-only, rough-and-rapid patdown, executed before I had time to argue, right in place. It took only seconds. It appeared to me to be a consequence of my questioning the wallet grab. The TSO neither really examined my wallet nor patted me down in the normal fashion. In my biased view it was all about subjugation to procedure, not effective security.

Exactly.

That would probably be apparent on the camera footage - but I suspect the cameras were down that day.

The only thing that would bother me here is what if some clerk or psgr decides to swipe that briefcase.

Any carry-on that can be locked by me is locked before putting it onto the belt. This includes my rollaboard and my computer bag, even my backpack if I'm only going for a short, personal trip.

Edit: And I do NOT use TSA-approved locks on my carryons.

Just tell them that you can't raise your arms over your head. It could be from shoulder problems or just a refusal to take the criminals "I surrender" pose but I don't think TSA will ask which of those cases fit you.
I don't have problems opting out, I plead the fifth on the name game.

The only thing that would bother me here is what if some clerk or psgr decides to swipe that briefcase.

Yet another reason to just not go through the scanners. There is no way to watch your stuff if your standing in a phone booth with your hands over your head. Twice while I've been in the middle of the groping process have I've seen people complain that their stuff was taken while they were in the machine. We talk about watching your belongings a lot here while waiting on the grope, but it's absolutely a problem for the people in the scanners... and my personal experience is that it's one justification for opting out that's particularly effective with people who otherwise think the scanner is a-ok.

This is why my wallet is safely located in a zippered pocket in my briefcase before I approach the TDC, and stays there until I'm well away from the screening area.

My phone, watch, wallet, and any extra cash I may have are always locked in one of these inside of my briefcase whenever I go through security:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005V874NM/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005V874NM/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00)

I've never been asked to unlock it, nor has it ever been flagged in the x-ray. I guess if they ask me to unlock it someday, I will, but I'm unsure just how much of a stink I'll raise if they decide they need to search the contents themselves. My guess is that if they ever did, it would at least involve a LEO being present.

In my biased view it was all about subjugation to procedure, not effective security.

That is what the TSA is all about, after all. "Security" is just the excuse.

I was the only passenger at the checkpoint this week at about 430am.

I move on to the checkpoint. MMW scanner. Been up working all night, too tired to opt out. I hold my wallet in my hand, stand in the blender with arms up, and exit.



That's not excuse. Everyone should be opting out.

But they don't. TSA hasn't neutered us into a nation a sheep.

I plead the fifth on the name game.

Being asked to state your name does not invoke the 5th Amendment.

[QUOTE=Caradoc;18992674]http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/specialneeds/editorial_1370.shtm



Another lie from the TSA.[/QUOTEH]

How does this apply? A cup is not a prosthesis, cast or support brace...

[QUOTE=Caradoc;18992674]http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/specialneeds/editorial_1370.shtm



Another lie from the TSA.[/QUOTEH]

How does this apply? A cup is not a prosthesis, cast or support brace...

I would consider it to be a cast from this definition: a stiff dressing or casing (medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com, quick google).

Stiff casing to protect an area recently affected by a medical procedure seems to fit.

Austin is on my "do not fly from this airport" list. Particularly hostile and obnoxious TSA there.

A cup is not a prosthesis, cast or support brace...

Never had groin surgery, have you?

I'd very much classify a "cup" as a "support brace." Possibly a "cast," depending.

TSO #1: "Now I'm going to pat down your leg."

In a twinkling, before I have time to argue, he drops to one knee, cups my left leg with both hands, and runs them up past my knee toward my crotch -- bumping it hard. He gets up just as quickly.

TSO #1 "There. That's procedure, too."

And they both walk away.

I'm sure America is safer because of stuff like this. I just can't figure out how, exactly.

I think you need to watch some soccer videos and learn how to drop like you were shot in the groin the next time they do that. writhe in pain on the floor and ask for an LEO since you were assaulted. That might get someone's attention

I think you need to watch some soccer videos and learn how to drop like you were shot in the groin the next time they do that. writhe in pain on the floor and ask for an LEO since you were assaulted. That might get someone's attention

That's my plan.

I think you need to watch some soccer videos and learn how to drop like you were shot in the groin the next time they do that. writhe in pain on the floor and ask for an LEO since you were assaulted. That might get someone's attention Great idea. :)

If they do a gloveless grope anywhere, just tell them you might be a MRSA carrier when they are done.

Data point- ANC TSA let a water bottle through yesterday afternoon when he was asked and it also made it through the rads box. Amazing. Gotta love Alaska.

If they do a gloveless grope anywhere, just tell them you might be a MRSA carrier when they are done.

Data point- ANC TSA let a water bottle through yesterday afternoon when he was asked and it also made it through the rads box. Amazing. Gotta love Alaska.

They will only tell you that they don't care that you're carrying a MRSA card - it is not a valid form of ID.

Seriously? Do you expect ANY TSA person will know what MRSA is?

.. Do you expect ANY TSA person will know what MRSA is?Maybe they've seen a movie or the National Inquirer and will recall the word "Ebola" or maybe "flesh-eating virus". hehe

TSO #1: "Now I'm going to pat down your leg."

In a twinkling, before I have time to argue, he drops to one knee, cups my left leg with both hands, and runs them up past my knee toward my crotch -- bumping it hard. He gets up just as quickly.

TSO #1 "There. That's procedure, too."

And they both walk away.

I'm sure America is safer because of stuff like this. I just can't figure out how, exactly.

I think you need to watch some soccer videos and learn how to drop like you were shot in the groin the next time they do that. writhe in pain on the floor and ask for an LEO since you were assaulted. That might get someone's attention

I thought of this, too. I would have to win an Academy Award because I think the last time I took a shot to the groin that doubled me over was in a high school basketball game a long time ago.

This is why my wallet is safely located in a zippered pocket in my briefcase before I approach the TDC, and stays there until I'm well away from the screening area.

exactly the same here